Schools closed until February? (part 3)

wirelessdude01

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I must observe at this point, there is a danger in presenting clear facts, and then presenting a conclusion as if it has been extrapolated from that fact. It is a standard union tactic.

They could equally follow an equivalent a 'logical' thread that goes :
Studies have shown that when there is no SARS CoV 2 in the world, there is no risk to teachers from Covid 19. Teachers should stay at home until there is no SARS CoV 2 in the world.

Good man yourself. Can always count on you to come in with some self serving line from our government.

JimmyVik

khalessi wrote: »

Union tactic not teacher tactic. Every teacher I know has thermals, will wear coats in order to make classrooms safer through ventilation. I have a hot water bottle for the colder days.

I tried it last week for the craic.
Left the heating off all day while working at home.
I wont be doing that again. Had my thermals and my usb powered vest on. Two pairs of socks. even put mu tracksuit on over my jeans at one point.
I dont know how kids can out up with that in school.
I think they should put the heating on full blast and open the windows.
At least there would be warm air flowing around.

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c1b0c9-national-broadband-plan/

Knock yourself out.

I know exactly what NBP is and I think it is great service to FF and FG voters that in live in the country. Why would urban/town deprived areas that vote SF or other left parties be taken care of when you can first make sure your own are happy.

wirelessdude01

JimmyVik wrote: »

I tried it last week for the craic.
Left the heating off all day while working at home.
I wont be doing that again. Had my thermals and my usb powered vest on. Two pairs of socks. even put mu tracksuit on over my jeans at one point.
I dont know how kids can out up with that in school.
I think they should put the heating on full blast and open the windows.
At least there would be warm air flowing around.

As far as I know in our school they still have all windows and the door open in each room. Heating on full blast from 7am every morning. Place is still freezing. Decision to be made soon whether having the heating on all day for little or no actual impact is worth the cost. Principal told me the other day that they've already spent the same amount on heating as they normally would in a standard year. No additional money is available to fund heating.

wirelessdude01

meeeeh wrote: »

I know exactly what NBP is and I think it is great service to FF and FG voters that in live in the country. Why would urban/town deprived areas that vote SF or other left parties be taken care of when you can first make sure your own are happy.

Are you trying to say that urban areas don't have broadband? Headd it all now.

iamwhoiam

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Are you trying to say that urban areas don't have broadband? Headd it all now.

I posted yesterday that it wasn’t me who had asked before if you were not in school
I hope you are ok and can return soon .



I don’t know anyone in an urban area who cannot access broadband but I imagine their are quite a few homes in large urban areas who only have phones to access it ?

meeeeh

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Are you trying to say that urban areas don't have broadband? Headd it all now.

I'm saying that NBP is very expensive solution that will benefit fairly small percentage of people and encourage one off housing. It's fine by me but personally I think housing and other issues in urban areas are probably a bit more urgent. But thanks for thinking of us poor country people living in 200 or 300sqm houses and making sure our broadband needs are served with public money.

We also have nice country schools with plenty of space, very little of social issues and it's nice to be on top of state priorities who to spend money on.

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

I know exactly what NBP is and I think it is great service to FF and FG voters that in live in the country. Why would urban/town deprived areas that vote SF or other left parties be taken care of when you can first make sure your own are happy.

About 7-8 years late if it actually gets completely this time, great service all together. :rolleyes:

No companies or businesses operate outside large urban areas.

That bubble you frequent is pretty impregnable isn't it?

khalessi

HerrKuehn wrote: »

From citizens information:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/primary_and_post_primary_education/going_to_primary_school/ownership_of_primary_schools.html#

"The majority of primary schools in Ireland are privately owned and supported by the different churches. The State pays the bulk of the building and running costs and a local contribution is made towards the running costs."

They are funded by the department of education but they aren't state owned.

Well I am referring to funding, they are badly invested in by the Dept and have been for years. This should be changed. The church is in name only. Private schools are the likes of fee paying schools which most schools are not

Icyseanfitz

thomasdylan wrote: »

You were clear that you would not be doing data entry if it involved having to leave your house.

You asked why people on 350e a week could not be deployed to the work that was suggested for SNAs even though you were not working and still getting paid. You wanted your scheduled holidays taken account of even though you were not working and getting paid for 2+ months.

Ultimately not one SNA was redployed. Loads of other PS staff were.

Again I'll ask, where did i say people who where put on 350 should be redeployed into doing the medical work asked of SNAs? At the time i was definitely not interested in leaving my house to work elsewhere, i was open to working at data entry from home or remotely with my students or in my capacity as an SNA, it is neither my or any other SNAs fault that we where left without work to do, i contacted my principal multiple times but was told not to contact students due to gdpr and child protection.

I apologize that i wasn't willing to sacrifice my family to covid in some half assed attempt of redeployment which had us SNAs stressed for months and in complete limbo about what we could be redeployed into without our consent or knowledge.

And seeing as you seem to have such an in dept knowledge of my posting history from before summer, you might recall that i said i would gladly go on pup for the duration i was off work and without any relevant work given.

Our holidays are irrelevant, we are paid our wage with those in mind throughout the year.

Im sure ive asked you this before, but what exactly do you work as, where you redeployed, did you have to work through your holidays, where you asked to work in a field you had zero experience? I mean you know so much about me and my personal circumstances its only fair to answer right.

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

About 7-8 years late if it actually gets completely this time, great service all together. :rolleyes:

No companies or businesses operate outside large urban areas.

That bubble you frequent is pretty impregnable isn't it?

this is off topic so I'm not going to go much further but let me just say that Irish rural areas are not where I think major public spending initiatives are most urgent. Better broadband would be great, so would public transport but it's not a sustainable way of developing country. There is also shortage of labour. We are in a sector that competes with building industry for labour force and the wages are up and getting in people is a pain. Laying cables in country areas will limit workforce available for other projects.

HerrKuehn

khalessi wrote: »

Well I am referring to funding, they are badly invested in by the Dept and have been for years. This should be changed. The church is in name only. Private schools are the likes of fee paying schools which most schools are not

No, what you refer to as private schools are private fee paying schools. The church is not in name only, the school admissions act preventing the so called "baptism barrier" will not come into effect for another 2 years. We will see how that plays out. I think my position is quite consistent, I prefer to pay in a voluntary contribution to the school that my kids go to rather than pay an indirect involuntary contribution through increased tax to privately owned religious schools that would not accept my children. That is the current situation we have in primary schools. We would not accept a situation
where public funded health care in hospitals was allocated based on religious affiliation, but somehow this is fine in education. It isn't a situation I am happy with, but it is our current system and given the situation in my opinion it should be the owners of the schools (church) or the users (parents) who increase funding to deal with any shortfall.

My wife is on the parents committee of the school, involved in fund raising etc. I know that this year the various fund raising activities have been massively curtailed or cancelled (christmas market, sponsored walk etc). The school has also lost a lot of expected income from the renting of the hall etc. We paid an increased voluntary contribution this year to help with this.

Stateofyou

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I must observe at this point, there is a danger in presenting clear facts, and then presenting a conclusion as if it has been extrapolated from that fact. It is a standard union tactic.

They could equally follow an equivalent a 'logical' thread that goes :
Studies have shown that when there is no SARS CoV 2 in the world, there is no risk to teachers from Covid 19. Teachers should stay at home until there is no SARS CoV 2 in the world.

What is the point of this post.

Stateofyou

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I must observe at this point, there is a danger in presenting clear facts, and then presenting a conclusion as if it has been extrapolated from that fact. It is a standard union tactic.

They could equally follow an equivalent a 'logical' thread that goes :
Studies have shown that when there is no SARS CoV 2 in the world, there is no risk to teachers from Covid 19. Teachers should stay at home until there is no SARS CoV 2 in the world.

What is the point of this post. Your analogy makes no sense and makes no coherent point that I can see. "There is a danger in presenting clear facts," is there? Lol.

The classrooms are lacking proper ventilation and so they are cold and unable to stay heated. Stating those facts is not a "union tactic."

wirelessdude01

HerrKuehn wrote: »

We paid an increased voluntary contribution this year to help with this.

Most schools I am aware of reduced their voluntary contribution this year as a goodwill gesture. I argued against such a move on a staff zoom call for the very reason that our cash raising activities wouldn't be taking place this year. School is now considering asking parents for an additional voluntary contribution.

Stateofyou

meeeeh wrote: »

How much more are you prepared to pay in taxes for that? I'm all for great broadband and I'm delighted that you are prepared to pay for it with your taxes so it can be delivered to the front door of my detached house on two acres of a garden in a nice country area. Some street lights would be great too please.

The Government of Ireland supports the NBP to ensure that no-one in Ireland is left behind. It is a critical infrastructural project which will ensure that every citizen and business, no matter where they are based, can progress together.

Covid-19 has further highlighted the importance of broadband in keeping people connected to each other, their work, education resources, business needs, and entertainment services. The NBP will contribute significantly to removing the existing digital divide between urban and rural communities in Ireland.

source: gov.ie

Thats me

Stateofyou wrote: »

Unions are picking up steam

Union concerns at ability to keep classrooms both ventilated and warm

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1119/1179062-teachers-trade-unions-oireachtas/

Studies have shown that good air circulation is vital in preventing the build-up of airborne particles of the Covid-19 virus indoors.

All three teacher unions have expressed concern, in submissions sent in advance to committee members, around the ability of schools to keep classrooms both well ventilated and warm over the coming months.

As the winter sets in the Teachers' Union of Ireland will tell politicians that many second level school buildings are not fit for purpose. The union says air quality metres should be installed in every classroom, to ensure that students and teachers are not forced to teach and learn in freezing cold classrooms.

The Association of Secondary Teachers has echoed that call. It says its research shows that 84% of schools where it has members do not have a dedicated ventilation system.

Primary teachers' union, the Irish National Teachers Organisation, has also expressed concern that a grant given to schools last week, to allow for minor works to be carried out, will not be sufficient to allow them to install air-monitoring systems.

What a nonsense! Which "air-monitoring systems" when they need normal ventilation which will create controlled air stream from outside (no recirculation) which means conditioning which in its turn means there will be monitoring built-in, otherwise it will not work.

This is what Japanese implemented before opening schools: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-schools-back-in-session-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-19/, Germany has provided 100K grants to schools to improve their ventilation systems. Since Ireland cannot afford it, schools should be closed.

Stateofyou

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Good man yourself. Can always count on you to come in with some self serving line from our government.

Is this poster with the government? That makes sense now... :pac:

HerrKuehn

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Most schools I am aware of reduced their voluntary contribution this year as a goodwill gesture. I argued against such a move on a staff zoom call for the very reason that our cash raising activities wouldn't be taking place this year. School is now considering asking parents for an additional voluntary contribution.

Yes, there was a lot of discussion around it. To be clear, they didn't change the voluntary contribution amount, simply asked if you are in a position to contribute more please consider doing so. I would be happy to have a better funded school system if it was open to all, but we don't have that.

meeeeh

Stateofyou wrote: »

The Government of Ireland supports the NBP to ensure that no-one in Ireland is left behind. It is a critical infrastructural project which will ensure that every citizen and business, no matter where they are based, can progress together.

Covid-19 has further highlighted the importance of broadband in keeping people connected to each other, their work, education resources, business needs, and entertainment services. The NBP will contribute significantly to removing the existing digital divide between urban and rural communities in Ireland.

source: gov.ie

I have no issues with that but I also think that if rural areas voted for SF the NBP would be a little bit less of a priority. Especially considering the fast delivery of new technologies.

Edit: our voluntary contribution went down a bit but we always pay extra during the year for swimming, zumba or some other classes. There are also other activities that parent's committee or whatever they are called organise and they fundraise for that separately. They are not overly active this year.

JimmyVik

HerrKuehn wrote: »

No, what you refer to as private schools are private fee paying schools. The church is not in name only, the school admissions act preventing the so called "baptism barrier" will not come into effect for another 2 years. We will see how that plays out. I think my position is quite consistent, I prefer to pay in a voluntary contribution to the school that my kids go to rather than pay an indirect involuntary contribution through increased tax to privately owned religious schools that would not accept my children. That is the current situation we have in primary schools. We would not accept a situation
where public funded health care in hospitals was allocated based on religious affiliation, but somehow this is fine in education. It isn't a situation I am happy with, but it is our current system and given the situation in my opinion it should be the owners of the schools (church) or the users (parents) who increase funding to deal with any shortfall.

My wife is on the parents committee of the school, involved in fund raising etc. I know that this year the various fund raising activities have been massively curtailed or cancelled (christmas market, sponsored walk etc). The school has also lost a lot of expected income from the renting of the hall etc. We paid an increased voluntary contribution this year to help with this.

Myself, i am sick to the teeth of begging letter and fund raisers from schools.
I pay tax. Use it for the schools. All of them. IF I need to pay more tax, then so be it. But they have to stop with this constant tapping people for money.

Stateofyou

Thats me wrote: »

What a nonsense! Which "air-monitoring systems" when they need normal ventilation which will create controlled air stream from outside (no recirculation) which means conditioning which in its turn means there will be monitoring built-in, otherwise it will not work.

This is what Japanese implemented before opening schools: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-schools-back-in-session-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-19/, Germany has provided 100K grants to schools to improve their ventilation systems. Since Ireland cannot afford it, schools should be closed.

I agree. I could not see the sense in air-monitoring systems vs ventilation systems, maybe we need to hear more about it first (could they be one in the same?) but at first read it's bizarre.

Stateofyou

meeeeh wrote: »

I have no issues with that but I also think that if rural areas voted for SF the NBP would be a little bit less of a priority. Especially considering the fast delivery of new technologies.

Didn't SF receive the majority of votes? Not sure what you mean by rural areas and why then the NBP would be a little bit less of a priority...

Thats me

JimmyVik wrote: »

Had my thermals and my usb powered vest on.

USB 2.0 powered? It is 2.5 watt - it is nothing given your own body radiates somewhat about 100W


BTW, not only temperature but also quality of air matters: regularly having not enough oxigen if your air recirculated or regularly exposed to air with non-optimal humidity is not good for human health.

mvl

Armani Gray Redcoat wrote: »

I wonder if we need to have a re-think of education. Can technology and other advancements be done to reduce the need for the current numbers of teachers we have in the country.

Many teachers feel that they have a poor job with a multitude of issues, it's being a common theme for years now. Rather than go around in circles going no-where maybe teachers should be given the opportunity to re-train into new careers that might offer them more suitable opportunities and better job satisfaction. This would reduce overall salary costs which would free up funding to make targeted investments in the education system - creating a better system for both students and the remaining teacher headcount.

Because we all know that the issue in schools is Covid this year, it will probably be something else in a year or two.

Think I've been suggesting the benefits of this earlier in the thread too; I'm a private worker doing wfh today, would prefer to move my 12yo to online learning for the time being.



Not only cause my home is safer that the school, also because I could see opportunities to improve secondary school students skills for the future of work.

- If we don't do it cause of ... cultural reasons (yeah, that's my conclusion from reading all the posts here against hybrid/online learning, some ppl are just culturally different), others might do it (e.g. chinese students, when it must be done), and then it would be Irish residents complaining how their kids might be stuck in the past.



I am certain teachers would be needed to update/prepare material, monitor students progress, work more in depth with academically gifted ... so we wouldn't talk about massive skills reconvertion there. And you can also keep traditional schooling for who prefers that ... But I guess I am more of a techy parent than others on the thread (the conservative type crying for schools to stay open as they are) ...

And before anyone says it - I already have arranged private tutoring to be done online; but I am expecting for the taxes I am paying to get contemporary services from the government, if that makes sense ?

Thats me

Stateofyou wrote: »

I agree. I could not see the sense in air-monitoring systems vs ventilation systems, maybe we need to hear more about it first (could they be one in the same?) but at first read it's bizarre.

I'd hope this is just misprint or wrong term used.. But it will be also techically difficult to implement - after quirks of ventilation system in our office, while working from home i'm just enjoyng ability to make environment comfortable for myself.

mvl

Stateofyou wrote: »

I agree. I could not see the sense in air-monitoring systems vs ventilation systems, maybe we need to hear more about it first (could they be one in the same?) but at first read it's bizarre.

also mentioned in an earlier post the 200 EUR DIY project done in some German school, that removes more than 90% virus carrying aerosols from ventilators // was hidden in a twitter link and perhaps was missed
https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1327374919282225152

meeeeh

Stateofyou wrote: »

Didn't SF receive the majority of votes? Not sure what you mean by rural areas and why then the NBP would be a little bit less of a priority...

No they didn't. They got nowhere near the majority.

wirelessdude01

meeeeh wrote: »

No they didn't. They got nowhere near the majority.

Well they did the highest percentage of the popular vote and then didn't bother talking to anyone else about forming a government.

https://www.irishtimes.com/election2020/results-hub

meeeeh

mvl wrote: »

Think I've been suggesting the benefits of this earlier in the thread too; I'm a private worker doing wfh today, would prefer to move my 12yo to online learning for the time being. Not only cause my home is safer that the school, also because I could see opportunities to improve secondary school students skills for the future of work.
- If we don't do it cause of ... cultural reasons (yeah, that's my conclusion from reading all the posts here against hybrid/online learning, some ppl are just culturally different), others might do it (e.g. chinese students, when it must be done), and then it would be Irish residents complaining how their kids might be stuck in the past.

I am certain teachers would be needed to update/prepare material, monitor students progress, work more in depth with academically gifted ... so we wouldn't talk about massive skills reconversion there. And you can also keep traditional schooling for who prefers that ... But I guess I am more of a techy parent than others on the thread (the conservative type crying for schools to stay open as they are) ...
And before anyone says it - I already have arranged private tutoring to be done online; but I am expecting for the taxes I am paying to get contemporary services from the government, if that makes sense ?

Who needs teachers to study years for their profession when 'techy' parents can do it all online.