Schools closed until February? (part 3)

jimmytwotimes 2013

Embarrassed by the TUI today.

Am a member but only to avoid crossing picket whenever there might be a strike.

This was not worth the media attention. For the sake of a couple of days. Most of our gang won't even turn up for the days in question anyway.

JimmyVik

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

I would be in direct close contact with 180 students a day through my classes, i would then be in close contact with a large number of either the juniors or seniors for supervision in the tight hallways for 50 minutes (this is worse with bad weather) then in between classes when all students are out mixing together in tight hallways while im trying to get to my next class. The students themselves are interacting with the other students at lunch (without masks outside) or through shared equipment (which isn't cleaned anymore as apparently hand sanitizer is enough) or when all the students are mixed into their choice classes) creating indirect contact to me through the students i work with. Im an SNA by the way, so i work in very close contact with most students in a class while floating around the class.

Then when you go home if you have children on other schools who come home to your house too id say your family contact web is gigantic.

thomasdylan

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Oh is that the absolute ****ing joke that was the attempt to redeploy SNAs into elder care homes as medical assistants, i suppose you believe that was perfectly acceptable :mad:

I believe you were opposed to having to do pretty much anything. Happily getting paid and not working but completely opposed to even the concept of redeployment for data entry if it meant you couldn't stay at home to do it.

Lots of people in the PS were deployed or taking on new roles. (Where I was social workers were learning how to prone Covid positive patients in ICU) and you were complaining that you might have to leave the house for data entry and that people who had lost their jobs should be doing it instead. Some attitude.

Icyseanfitz

thomasdylan wrote: »

I believe you were opposed to having to do pretty much anything. Happily getting paid and not working but completely opposed to even the concept of redeployment for data entry if it meant you couldn't stay at home to do it.

Lots of people in the PS were deployed or taking on new roles. (Where I was social workers were learning how to prone Covid positive patients in ICU) and you were complaining that you might have to leave the house for data entry and that people who had lost their jobs should be doing it instead. Some attitude.

Find exactly where i said that? Absolute bull****. I had no problem whatsoever working within the confines of my role as a post primary SNA from home at a time of much greater uncertainty around covid than we have now, i have elderly and at risk parents and an at risk wife, how dare you try to make me feel guilty for wanting to keep those i loved safe :mad:

What other sector of the ps where to be redeployed into being medical assistants by the way? A role for which SNAs are not trained for, that was where my issues with redeployment lay.

Stateofyou

thomasdylan wrote: »

I believe you were opposed to having to do pretty much anything. Happily getting paid and not working but completely opposed to even the concept of redeployment for data entry if it meant you couldn't stay at home to do it.

Lots of people in the PS were deployed or taking on new roles. (Where I was social workers were learning how to prone Covid positive patients in ICU) and you were complaining that you might have to leave the house for data entry and that people who had lost their jobs should be doing it instead. Some attitude.

I highly doubt you or anyone would speak in that manner to someone's face. But because you're hiding behind a keyboard it's acceptable? Some attitude is right.

Stateofyou

Unions are picking up steam

Union concerns at ability to keep classrooms both ventilated and warm

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1119/1179062-teachers-trade-unions-oireachtas/

Studies have shown that good air circulation is vital in preventing the build-up of airborne particles of the Covid-19 virus indoors.

All three teacher unions have expressed concern, in submissions sent in advance to committee members, around the ability of schools to keep classrooms both well ventilated and warm over the coming months.

As the winter sets in the Teachers' Union of Ireland will tell politicians that many second level school buildings are not fit for purpose. The union says air quality metres should be installed in every classroom, to ensure that students and teachers are not forced to teach and learn in freezing cold classrooms.

The Association of Secondary Teachers has echoed that call. It says its research shows that 84% of schools where it has members do not have a dedicated ventilation system.

Primary teachers' union, the Irish National Teachers Organisation, has also expressed concern that a grant given to schools last week, to allow for minor works to be carried out, will not be sufficient to allow them to install air-monitoring systems.

thomasdylan

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Find exactly where i said that? Absolute bull****. I had no problem whatsoever working within the confines of my role as a post primary SNA from home at a time of much greater uncertainty around covid than we have now, i have elderly and at risk parents and an at risk wife, how dare you try to make me feel guilty for wanting to keep those i loved safe :mad:

What other sector of the ps where to be redeployed into being medical assistants by the way? A role for which SNAs are not trained for, that was where my issues with redeployment lay.

You were clear that you would not be doing data entry if it involved having to leave your house.

You asked why people on 350e a week could not be deployed to the work that was suggested for SNAs even though you were not working and still getting paid. You wanted your scheduled holidays taken account of even though you were not working and getting paid for 2+ months.

Ultimately not one SNA was redployed. Loads of other PS staff were.

Boggles

Stateofyou wrote: »

The Association of Secondary Teachers has echoed that call. It says its research shows that 84% of schools where it has members do not have a dedicated ventilation system.

That figure is going to change any time soon.

They will be told to open windows and wear hats and coats.

New York closes schools

Mayor Bill de Blasio said New York's 1,800 public schools would revert to remote learning after the city recorded a seven-day average positivity rate of 3%

um7y1h83ge06nx

I wonder if we need to have a re-think of education. Can technology and other advancements be done to reduce the need for the current numbers of teachers we have in the country.

Many teachers feel that they have a poor job with a multitude of issues, it's being a common theme for years now. Rather than go around in circles going no-where maybe teachers should be given the opportunity to re-train into new careers that might offer them more suitable opportunities and better job satisfaction. This would reduce overall salary costs which would free up funding to make targeted investments in the education system - creating a better system for both students and the remaining teacher headcount.

Because we all know that the issue in schools is Covid this year, it will probably be something else in a year or two.

khalessi

Armani Gray Redcoat wrote: »

I wonder if we need to have a re-think of education. Can technology and other advancements be done to reduce the need for the current numbers of teachers we have in the country.

Many teachers feel that they have a poor job with a multitude of issues, it's being a common theme for years now. Rather than go around in circles going no-where maybe teachers should be given the opportunity to re-train into new careers that might offer them more suitable opportunities and better job satisfaction. This would reduce overall salary costs which would free up funding to make targeted investments in the education system - creating a better system for both students and the remaining teacher headcount.

Because we all know that the issue in schools is Covid this year, it will probably be something else in a year or two.

The biggest issue I have seen with teaching is the lack of proper investment and people bashing teachers , it is going on a long time here on boards back to the early 2000s. Most teachers woudl feel that lack of investment is the biggest issue, as most teachers spend their own money on class supplies. Covid has shown how the lack of investment in schools can bite us in the arse. Maybe it is time schools were properly financed so parents are not pressured to pay voluntary contributions to ensure basic supplies such as toilet rolls can be bought.

Boggles

Armani Gray Redcoat wrote: »

I wonder if we need to have a re-think of education. Can technology and other advancements be done to reduce the need for the current numbers of teachers we have in the country.

Huh? Robots?

I think tackling the grossly unfair 2 tier pay system and fixing a system that has some of the highest pupil teacher ratios in the world should come first before we get in the cyborgs.

Then do something about the woeful under investment in capital spending and do away with the dangerously stupid policy of "shure throw in prefab" at a relative massive cost.

Oh and some sort of National Broadband plan too, that bloody thing that should have been fully finished a couple of years ago.

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

Huh? Robots?

I think tackling the grossly unfair 2 tier pay system and fixing a system that has some of the highest pupil teacher ratios in the world should come first before we get in the cyborgs.

I think tackling the grossly underfunded infrastructure should come first. You know, things like availability of hot water and toilet paper.

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

I think tackling the grossly underfunded infrastructure should come first. You know, things like availability of hot water and toilet paper.

Toilet paper wouldn't be consider infrastructure, think bigger.

But I agree schools should not have to "fund raise" for basic provisions.

But this really isn't a department that can walk and chew gum.

With the 2 tier pay system, they are struggling to get teachers in, understandable, lack of teachers = over crowding, poor education delivery.

HerrKuehn

khalessi wrote: »

The biggest issue I have seen with teaching is the lack of proper investment and people bashing teachers , it is going on a long time here on boards back to the early 2000s. Most teachers woudl feel that lack of investment is the biggest issue, as most teachers spend their own money on class supplies. Covid has shown how the lack of investment in schools can bite us in the arse. Maybe it is time schools were properly financed so parents are not pressured to pay voluntary contributions to ensure basic supplies such as toilet rolls can be bought.

I actually don't mind the "voluntary" contribution model. Particularly given that when we were applying for schools they were at the back of the list for some schools due to not being baptised. I believe this may have changed a bit in the last few years. I would rather contribute directly towards my own kids school.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Boggles wrote: »

Huh? Robots?

They has been some research into the use of biometrics in education which would allow real-time feedback to how students are responding to material and then tailoring that material accordingly to help achieve better outcomes.

Opportunities too to leverage in some situations items like Augmented Reality to aid learning. Some see AR as a gimmick but I have seen some great applications in industry, one was to display an exploded 3D view of a machine on a production line to allow technicians to more easily understand how to troubleshoot the physical machine in front of them.

Technology is more than just Hollywood style robots.

JimmyVik

Lillyfae wrote: »

I think tackling the grossly underfunded infrastructure should come first. You know, things like availability of hot water and toilet paper.

Sure they arent turning on the heating these days. They can buy loads of toilet paper

Boggles

Armani Gray Redcoat wrote: »

They has been some research into the use of biometrics in education which would allow real-time feedback to how students are responding to material and then tailoring that material accordingly to help achieve better outcomes.

Opportunities too to leverage in some situations items like Augmented Reality to aid learning. Some see AR as a gimmick but I have seen some great applications in industry, one was to display an exploded 3D view of a machine on a production line to allow technicians to more easily understand how to troubleshoot the physical machine in front of them.

Technology is more than just Hollywood style robots.

In Ireland, where you have to hang out a window to get signal in large swathes of the country?

Lets get them some toilet roll first eh?

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

With the 2 tier pay system, they are struggling to get teachers in, understandable, lack of teachers = over crowding, poor education delivery.

There's plenty of demand for primary teaching places according to the CAO, and the outcomes in education don't reflect poor delivery. From the government to the unions though, there is a terribly poor person- task fit. Making school buildings fit for purpose and adequately equipped across the board will take more than a few teachers putting their heads together. It's never going to change if the same people are making the decisions all the time, based on the wrong expertise and with a conflict of interest.

There isn't enough money for pay if the schools themselves aren't adequately funded to the point that parents have to make extra contributions for whiteboard markers and soap, and if teachers are sticking their hands in their pockets without reimbursement, so it will be a priority for no-one except teachers until those problems are solved.

EDIT:
Plus the demand for teachers full stop is set to reduce over the coming 15 years I believe, since the number of children is decreasing.

khalessi

HerrKuehn wrote: »

I actually don't mind the "voluntary" contribution model. Particularly given that when we were applying for schools they were at the back of the list for some schools due to not being baptised. I believe this may have changed a bit in the last few years. I would rather contribute directly towards my own kids school.

Agreed, but the issue is when they say voluntary but it isnt really. The government should not be relying on parents to fill the gap for`necessary items. Some of this money is used to carry out maintenance or pay wages, surely these should be covered by the government and if vol. contributions are made, it should be spent directly on students to enrich learning.

JimmyVik

khalessi wrote: »

Agreed, but the issue is when they say voluntary but it isnt really. The government should not be relying on parents to fill the gap for`necessary items. Some of this money is used to carry out maintenance or pay wages, surely these should be covered by the government and if vol. contributions are made, it should be spent directly on students to enrich learning.

I am totally against voluntary contributions. Joke of a system.

HerrKuehn

khalessi wrote: »

Agreed, but the issue is when they say voluntary but it isnt really. The government should not be relying on parents to fill the gap for`necessary items. Some of this money is used to carry out maintenance or pay wages, surely these should be covered by the government and if vol. contributions are made, it should be spent directly on students to enrich learning.

Well if we decide to persist with the system of almost entirely private primary schools, I think it should be either the owners of the schools increasing funding or the users of the service (parents).

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

EDIT:
Plus the demand for teachers full stop is set to reduce over the coming 15 years I believe, since the number of children is decreasing.

Sure we will just wait 15-20 years so, I imagine there will no retirements or anything of that nature.

We might have rolled out of broadband then and replace all teachers with VR.

They can use there own toilet roll at home.

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

Sure we will just wait 15-20 years so, I imagine there will no retirements or anything of that nature.

We might have rolled out of broadband then and replace all teachers with VR.

They can use there own toilet roll at home.

How is increasing newly qualified teachers pay going to help with the toilet paper problem?

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

How is increasing newly qualified teachers pay going to help with the toilet paper problem?

I outlined numerous problems that need fixing.

All pretty urgently.

For some reason you have clung to toilet paper as the greatest need of infrastructural change, it shouldn't be a problem, the solution is quite simple, but that indeed gives you a flavor of the ineptitude involved.

khalessi

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Well if we decide to persist with the system of almost entirely private primary schools, I think it should be either the owners of the schools increasing funding or the users of the service (parents).

What system of private primary schools? Arent most primary schools under the Dept of Ed?

MelbourneMan

Stateofyou wrote: »

Unions are picking up steam

Union concerns at ability to keep classrooms both ventilated and warm

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1119/1179062-teachers-trade-unions-oireachtas/

Studies have shown that good air circulation is vital in preventing the build-up of airborne particles of the Covid-19 virus indoors.

I must observe at this point, there is a danger in presenting clear facts, and then presenting a conclusion as if it has been extrapolated from that fact. It is a standard union tactic.

They could equally follow an equivalent a 'logical' thread that goes :
Studies have shown that when there is no SARS CoV 2 in the world, there is no risk to teachers from Covid 19. Teachers should stay at home until there is no SARS CoV 2 in the world.

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

In Ireland, where you have to hang out a window to get signal in large swathes of the country?

Lets get them some toilet roll first eh?

How much more are you prepared to pay in taxes for that? I'm all for great broadband and I'm delighted that you are prepared to pay for it with your taxes so it can be delivered to the front door of my detached house on two acres of a garden in a nice country area. Some street lights would be great too please.

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

How much more are you prepared to pay in taxes for that?

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c1b0c9-national-broadband-plan/

Knock yourself out.

khalessi

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I must observe at this point, there is a danger in presenting clear facts, and then presenting a conclusion as if it has been extrapolated from that fact. It is a standard union tactic.

They could equally follow an equivalent a 'logical' thread that goes :
Studies have shown that when there is no SARS CoV 2 in the world, there is no risk to teachers from Covid 19. Teachers should stay at home until there is no SARS CoV 2 in the world.

Union tactic not teacher tactic. Every teacher I know has thermals, will wear coats in order to make classrooms safer through ventilation. I have a hot water bottle for the colder days.

HerrKuehn

khalessi wrote: »

What system of private primary schools? Arent most primary schools under the Dept of Ed?

From citizens information:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/primary_and_post_primary_education/going_to_primary_school/ownership_of_primary_schools.html#

"The majority of primary schools in Ireland are privately owned and supported by the different churches. The State pays the bulk of the building and running costs and a local contribution is made towards the running costs."

They are funded by the department of education but they aren't state owned.