Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Nope. 22nd is set by the department.

Here ya go.

https://www.education.ie/en/schools-colleges/information/school-holidays/

You should have a read of that document. Full of words like Teachers Council, discretionary and unforeseen closures.

wirelessdude01

Armani Gray Redcoat wrote: »

That is probably true up to a point. But the same could be said of any other school day i.e. that having the school open allow parents go to work.

However teachers should be promoting the importance of school for education, letting schools be labelled as glorified creches is an insult to teachers and the education system.

Although I would say most decent parents see schools as places of education first and foremost.

I'd normally take issue with someone saying what I just did but let's be honest for those two days that's what they will be. I fully expect a significant number and possibly a majority of students won't be sent in anyway for those two days.

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

So what? The truck drivers, supermarket workers, Gardaí, ICU nurses shouldn't have had children if they weren't willing to homeschool them during a pandemic so teachers could have "a break" is it? Or maybe they should have become teachers?

If only they had a crystal ball to forsee a global pandemic and government policy regarding safety in the schools?

Those sectors have nothing in common and each present with their own challenges and policy around them. I don't see that as a logical comparison.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

You should have a read of that document. Full of words like Teachers Council, discretionary and unforeseen closures.

Okie dokie. You know better. My bad.

Lillyfae

Stateofyou wrote: »

If only they had a crystal ball to forsee a global pandemic and government policy regarding safety in the schools?

Those sectors have nothing in common and each present with their own challenges and policy around them. I don't see that as a logical comparison.

They're all essential workers with limited holidays who have probably already arranged their Christmas schedule around their children's school schedule. So I can imagine that it might be a hard pill for them to swallow if that schedule were to change now.

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

So what? The truck drivers, supermarket workers, Gardaí, ICU nurses shouldn't have had children if they weren't willing to homeschool them during a pandemic so teachers could have "a break" is it? Or maybe they should have become teachers?

All treated differently during this pandemic.

For instance 221 staff from UL off at the moment because they were deemed close contacts.

Wouldn't happen in a school.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Boggles wrote: »

All treated differently during this pandemic.

For instance 221 staff from UL off at the moment because they were deemed close contacts.

Wouldn't happen in a school.

That's University Hospital Limerick, not UL. They are not all close contacts, some are Covid positive.

A few days ago when the overall figures was 161 - 99 were Covid positive and 62 were close contacts awaiting results. I don't know how the updated 221 figure breaks down.

Link

A big reason the close contacts are out of work is to try to limit the extent of the outbreak. Once they test negative they are to go back to work. Those tests too would be prioritized as they are HSE staff and need to keep the show on the road, most tests would be back in about 24hrs, 48hrs max. Obviously if they are positive it is a different situation.

.

Stateofyou

Lillyfae wrote: »

They're all essential workers with limited holidays who have probably already arranged their Christmas schedule around their children's school schedule. So I can imagine that it might be a hard pill for them to swallow if that schedule were to change now.

So we're back to the point being made about schools being childcare first in some instances? So in the case of it being a safer choice to close a bit earlier, it's the childcare issue that comes to the forefront.
There's never going to be a perfect solution for every family. The reality is, even the best laid plans can go out the window. And in this pandemic, there will be many closures and needs to quarantine so being able to depend on a rock solid schedule is and was never going to happen.
I think many will pull their children out earlier anyway, especially on the half day so hopefully smaller class sizes would itself help limit potential spread in the winding down to break.

khalessi

Armani Gray Redcoat wrote: »

That is probably true up to a point. But the same could be said of any other school day i.e. that having the school open allow parents go to work.

However teachers should be promoting the importance of school for education, letting schools be labelled as glorified creches is an insult to teachers and the education system.

Although I would say most decent parents see schools as places of education first and foremost.

Actually Public Health consultants have implied they consider us creches, one of the reasons they are conservative in identifying close contacts in schools is because if the child has to stay at home, who will mind the child if the parents are working.

tom1ie

Boggles wrote: »

It looks like you are in favor of A and B answers, reality is far more nuanced I am afraid.

But in practice the more families that pull there kids from school the better, less chance for the virus to spread over the holidays which it will like wildfire (not my opinion), less damage to the economy, health system, peoples health and more chance of getting the kids back to school next year with lower instances of the virus.

It's an all round solid idea, if people stopped moaning about feckless teachers for a nano second they would realize it.

Where it will start spreading again yeah?

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

Actually Public Health consultants have implied they consider us creches, one of the reasons they are conservative in identifying close contacts in schools is because if the child has to stay at home, who will mind the child if the parents are working.

She really let the cat out of the bag at that presser. It was like she forgot she was infront of the media.

Lillyfae

Stateofyou wrote: »

So we're back to the point being made about schools being childcare first in some instances?

No, work and school (in a lot of instances) are planned around each other because that is what is convenient for all involved- teachers are parents too. That wouldn't be the case for the professions outlined though, as they don't follow a 9 - 5, Monday - Friday system

tom1ie

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Let's be honest. Schools are needed to be open those two days so that parents can go to work. Let's not pretend it's anything to do with education.

Schools are open to teach kids. That’s the job of the schools.
A by product of that is that parents can go to work without needing to organise child care.
Schools get kids ready to join the workforce. That’s the job of schools.

Boggles

Armani Gray Redcoat wrote: »

That's University Hospital Limerick, not UL. They are not all close contacts, some are Covid positive.

A few days ago when the overall figures was 161 - 99 were Covid positive and 62 were close contacts awaiting results. I don't know how the updated 221 figure breaks down.

Link

A big reason the close contacts are out of work is to try to limit the extent of the outbreak. Once they test negative they are to go back to work. Those tests too would be prioritized as they are HSE staff and need to keep the show on the road, most tests would be back in about 24hrs, 48hrs max. Obviously if they are positive it is a different situation.

.

Where in the link does it say how many were Covid positive?

eviltwin

I actually don't have an issue with it if it helps people have a decent Christmas. I'd want the extra days tagged on at some point in the holidays for 2021. Kids have missed enough school and shouldn't miss out. What I find laughable is the union saying the poor teachers are exhausted - aren't we all - but its hard to take that seriously when they are only back in work a matter of weeks compared to everyone else who has been working through it.

Boggles

tom1ie wrote: »

Where it will start spreading again yeah?

Yes, but the task at hand is to limit spread for the Christmas where NPHET believe the reproductive number could reach 3 and beyond.

One thing at a time my good man.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Boggles wrote: »

Where in the link does it say how many were Covid positive?

It doesn't and being honest I'm not sure if that information is in the public domain, I don't think they want to reveal those figures in case it causes panic. If I find a public link I'll put it up.

This is all RTE is saying which obviously doesn't give the breakdown but admits it includes positive numbers:

Those affected include staff who tested positive for Covid-19 through workplace and community transmission, close contacts of those cases, as well as any staff who are showing symptoms and who are staying off work in line with health guidelines.

Boggles

eviltwin wrote: »

I actually don't have an issue with it if it helps people have a decent Christmas. I'd want the extra days tagged on at some point in the holidays for 2021. Kids have missed enough school and shouldn't miss out. What I find laughable is the union saying the poor teachers are exhausted - aren't we all - but its hard to take that seriously when they are only back in work a matter of weeks compared to everyone else who has been working through it.

I'm not. At least not mentally which they were referring to primarily.

But then again I don't share a small room with 100s of people daily in the middle of a once in a generation pandemic.

Most of my work is done remotely.

What do you yourself that has you exhausted?

Boggles

Armani Gray Redcoat wrote: »

It doesn't and being honest I'm not sure if that information is in the public domain, I don't think they want to reveal those figures in case it causes panic. If I find a public link I'll put it up.

Well it is now. :pac:

um7y1h83ge06nx

Boggles wrote: »

Well it is now. :pac:

I only heard it from a bird.

tom1ie

Boggles wrote: »

Yes, but the task at hand is to limit spread for the Christmas where NPHET believe the reproductive number could reach 3 and beyond.

One thing at a time my good man.

If the task at hand was to limit spread for Xmas, schools would be shut at least a month before Xmas and have proper enforcement, to get the virus numbers down to at most single digits and all workers would be in lockdown.
But the task here is to give teachers an extra day and a half off cause they are fatigued.
It’s close up shop or open it all up.
You can’t have a middle ground.

Icyseanfitz

tom1ie wrote: »

The decision needs to be made if schools are spreading the virus as people on here are suggesting then close them, and obviously this will mean parents can’t work either.

If however schools aren’t spreading the virus well then why would teachers need time off?

There can’t be an in between it’s one or the other, you can’t expect parents to take annual leave to allow teachers a day and a half off as they are tired!
It’s crazy!

I don't think any of us are going to bother explaining our view on what schools are contributing to covid, go read back a few pages if you want it.

eviltwin

Boggles wrote: »

I'm not. At least not mentally which they were referring to primarily.

But then again I don't share a small room with 100s of people daily in the middle of a once in a generation pandemic.

Most of my work is done remotely.

What do you yourself that has you exhausted?

Working in residential care. Covid restrictions have hit our residents hard and we've been dealing with a lot of the fall out. But you just have to get on with it. We have to adapt. Tbh I'm grateful to have a job to go to but its challenging and its hard and I'm exhausted.

Boggles

tom1ie wrote: »

If the task at hand was to limit spread for Xmas, schools would be shut at least a month before Xmas and have proper enforcement, to get the virus numbers down to at most single digits and all workers would be in lockdown.
But the task here is to give teachers an extra day and a half off cause they are fatigued.
It’s close up shop or open it all up.
You can’t have a middle ground.

Jesus Christ what are you like in work meetings?

Get a dose of nuance into you, not everything is A or B, black or white.

Boggles

eviltwin wrote: »

Working in residential care. Covid restrictions have hit our residents hard and we've been dealing with a lot of the fall out. But you just have to get on with it. We have to adapt. Tbh I'm grateful to have a job to go to but its challenging and its hard and I'm exhausted.

Good for you can't be easy.

But again, ye are the most tested protected workforce out there in terms of Covid.

People who work in schools are at the absolute bottom of the pile.

I find it surprising given the job you do you would find their worries or stress levels "laughable".

In my personal experience they have got their head down and have done amazing work.

But I am not ungrateful or naive to think that level of commitment doesn't come at somewhat of a personal cost to a least a portion of people working in schools, not everyone working in a school is a fit and health 20 something with no underlying conditions or family members who are at risk.

Blondini

Jaysus that announcement from the union about something that probably won't even happen, has definitely rattled the numpty cage and woken up some sleeping bitterness.

Stateofyou

tom1ie wrote: »

If the task at hand was to limit spread for Xmas, schools would be shut at least a month before Xmas and have proper enforcement, to get the virus numbers down to at most single digits and all workers would be in lockdown.
But the task here is to give teachers an extra day and a half off cause they are fatigued.
It’s close up shop or open it all up.
You can’t have a middle ground.

Well now, we could have a middle ground but our government have obviously decided it's not worth the time/cost/effort to implement.

In fairness, here's what the RTE article says about the union stance first thing:

A second-level teachers' union has said schools should be allowed to close early for Christmas so that students and teachers have more time to restrict their movements before meeting elderly or vulnerable relatives.

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus Christ what are you like in work meetings?

Get a dose of nuance into you, not everything is A or B, black or white.

This is though:

wrote:

Mr Gillespie said stress and anxiety levels remained extremely high as a result of a range of worries and concerns that were not imaginable this time last year.

“This has been an extraordinarily intensive working period, and staff and students are far more fatigued than they would be during a ‘normal’ school year.

“In this regard, the short extension of the Christmas closure period that we are advocating would be a significant and much-needed boost to the morale of all concerned.”

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

Good for you can't be easy.

But again, ye are the most tested protected workforce out there in terms of Covid.

People who work in schools are at the absolute bottom of the pile.

Let me get this straight you are actually saying that people who work in residential care have it easier than teachers.

Marty Bird

Blondini wrote: »

Jaysus that announcement from the union about something that probably won't even happen, has definitely rattled the numpty cage and woken up some sleeping bitterness.

It certainly not bitterness for me but I’ve to laugh at even the suggestion of early holidays from the unions after the year teachers have had so far.