Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Stateofyou

I've just seen a post put forward yesterday by the INTO of NI, amplifying the latest findings published by their Public Health Agency.

There has been at least one confirmed covid case in all of NI's 39 special schools since the start of the school year.
There has been 812 covid 'incidents' (single cases or clusters) in 625 schools between Aug and Nov 8th.
Almost 9/10 post-primary schools and all 39 special schools had at least one positive case.
365 Primary schools out of 805 have had at least one case.

There are some other stats listed as well, they seem to be very transparent. Anyone know where to find our latest school figures from the HSE to compare? There are rumours that all schools in the North will close Dec 11th.

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Not he case at all. December closure date is clearly stated.

If as you suggest schools can alter, then surely Norma would have made reference to this when making her comments to the oireachtas education committee.

If I could just draw your attention to Appendix B of the relevant circular posted by you :

Contingency arrangements in the event of unforeseen school closures
The parties have recognised that there is a need to include flexibility and to
provide for contingency arrangements within the standardised school year to deal with unforeseen school closures................If necessary, the school authority should review the school calendar with a view to identifying any available discretionary days that the school had planned to close that could be made available to make up the loss. In this regard, the school authority should take into account the need to provide adequate notice of any changes to the school calendar to pupils, parents and staff.

Stateofyou

E36Ross wrote: »

Read the full paragraph in context, Not highlighting bits to suite your agenda.

I do go on to state about closing early and opening early, But there's not a suggestion of that by any union!

And part of the reasoning put forward by TUI is about fatigued teachers which has sweet feck all to do with public health and limted spread.

I did read it in full context, my reply stands. I don't have an agenda but you clearly stated yours.

In regards to the fatigue mentioned, both staff AND students were mentioned. I'm not sure you're one to talk about not reading the full context when clearly you have done that very thing.

HerrKuehn

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I haven't studied the detail of the teachers union' call yet, but for those who have, are the extra holidays for all ? I.e do they support shops being closed on the 23th and 24th for example so that retail worker get a similar boost to their morale and reduction in covid risk ?

of course, hospitals are closing on the 18th too.

teachinggal123

Teacher bashing on Joe!!!

giveitholly

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Teacher bashing on Joe!!!

Teachers can blame the union for that

meeeeh

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Teacher bashing on Joe!!!

I'll skip thanks.

How can anyone listen to Joe Duffy is beyond me.

Stateofyou

meeeeh wrote: »

You might feel I'm insensitive and dismissive but very often parents increase kids anxiety. I feel no need to burden them with extra responsibilities. I'm news junkie so they know very well what is happening and they are not ignorant.

I think we should park this as it's starting to get very personal. Neither myself or my spouse are burdening our children or increasing their anxiety. Honestly, how dare you. As I clearly stated our older children are very aware themselves to what's going on as well. Their mental health needs are valid, all children's are. That goes for adults too. We all cope differently. Let's leave it here, please.

khalessi

HerrKuehn wrote: »

of course, hospitals are closing on the 18th too.

Hospitals do have a tradition of closing wards due to staff shortages or budgetary requirements

JimmyVik

I think its a great idea for schools to close a week early and go back a week early.
At least then people visiting relatives can isolate for a little while before visiting.
Probably better not to visit at all, but thats not going to happen

Boggles

meeeeh wrote: »

Let me get this straight you are actually saying that people who work in residential care have it easier than teachers.

No. I have no idea how you could get that from my clear post.

Not surprising though.

HerrKuehn

khalessi wrote: »

Hospitals do have a tradition of closing wards due to staff shortages or budgetary requirements

well my wife is working as a nurse on xmas eve, so they aren't closed I can assure you

Ashbourne hoop

meeeeh wrote: »

I'll skip thanks.

How can anyone listen to Joe Duffy is beyond me.

Radio Facebook

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

If I could just draw your attention to Appendix B of the relevant circular posted by you :

This is for the likes of snow days, burst water pipes and the likes. Then again as I already said if this was an option then Norma would have just said it.

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

This is for the likes of snow days, burst water pipes and the likes.

That's not what "discretionary" means.

iamwhoiam

JimmyVik wrote: »

I think its a great idea for schools to close a week early and go back a week early.
At least then people visiting relatives can isolate for a little while before visiting.
Probably better not to visit at all, but thats not going to happen

Frontline staff for example would find that extremely difficult . Most rosters are long sorted and off durty at that time is set in stone almost

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

That's not what "discretionary" means.

If closing early was already possible under an existing circular then why are some of the unions broaching the idea?

In primary we have 3 discretionary days and in our school we always use them to extend the February midterm. The link I gave you earlier even gives that very example. They aren't to be used to close schools earlier.

khalessi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

If closing early was already possible under an existing circular then why are some of the unions broaching the idea?

In primary we have 3 discretionary days and in our school we always use them to extend the February midterm. The link I gave you earlier even gives that very example. They aren't to be used to close schools earlier.

The use of those discretionary days are also decided before the beginning of the school year

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

If closing early was already possible under an existing circular then why are some of the unions broaching the idea?

In primary we have 3 discretionary days and in our school we always use them to extend the February midterm. The link I gave you earlier even gives that very example. They aren't to be used to close schools earlier.

Because the unions have asked for 2 extra days, not earlier close and earlier open. Here's what it says:

This guidance sets out a structured approach to determining the measures to be put in place to make up for time lost. The guidance provides that subject to consensus at local level, any changes to normal practice that can be made to address the shortfalls should be put in place.If necessary, the school authority should then identify any available discretionary days that the school had planned to close that could be made available to make up for time lost.
Where the above measures are not considered adequate, contingency
arrangements to make up for time lost due to extensive or prolonged unforeseen school closures may now also include either or both of the following:

 The February mid-term break may be reduced by up to three days subject
to the requirement that all schools must be closed on the Thursday and
Friday of the week in which this break falls.
 The Easter break may be reduced by up to three days by the school
remaining open up to and including the Wednesday immediately
preceding the Easter weekend. All schools must be closed on the
Thursday and Friday immediately preceding the Easter weekend and
remain closed for the remainder of the Easter break as set out in
Appendix A of this circular.

If a school wants to hold on to the days to use them in February, that's a choice. Any changes are up for discussion, and there is flexibility built in to the document. I can copy paste for you all day but it's just going to waste time and won't make a difference to the argument here. The TUI wants 2 extra days off for teachers, not days to be made up elsewhere. They want this a month before it's proposed to happen.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

Because the unions have asked for 2 extra days, not earlier close and earlier open. Here's what it says:



If a school wants to hold on to the days to use them in February, that's a choice. Any changes are up for discussion, and their is flexibility built in to the document. I can copy paste for you all day but it's just going to waste time and won't make a difference to the argument here. The TUI wants 2 extra days off for teachers, not days to be made up elsewhere. They want this a month before it's proposed to happen.

The school calendar is planned before the school year starts so the discretionary days cannot be moved.

Boggles

JDD wrote: »

In controlling the pandemic as a whole, it makes perfect sense for 1 million citizens to get four extra days (saturday, sunday, monday, tuesday) to restrict movements before inevitably having family over on Christmas Day. Yes, it will be awkward for some workers who have to organise childcare for those two days, but it is TWO DAYS. One and half days really.

It's crazy isn't it? We are all fighting against the same pandemic, we all have the same goals?

Not one person on here has stated that it's a bad idea, but the objections to it are thick and fast.

"I don't care if we have to shut the economy down again in Jan and Feb over my dead body are those bloody teachers getting an extra day and a half off"

Amazeballs!

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

The school calendar is planned before the school year starts so the discretionary days cannot be moved.

That sounds like a school problem then, maybe if they wanted to be off on the 18th they should have arranged to be off on the 18th.

But this must mean that has been settled- the calendar is already planned so can't be altered now.

HerrKuehn

Boggles wrote: »

It's crazy isn't it? We are all fighting against the same pandemic, we all have the same goals?

Not one person on here has stated that it's a bad idea, but the objections to it are thick and fast.

"I don't care if we have to shut the economy down again in Jan and Feb over my dead body are those bloody teachers getting an extra day and a half off"

Amazeballs!

There isn't really any reason to finish early though. We had the same conversation about extending the November midterms. I will go out on a limb and say we will probably have the discussion about the Feb midterms and the Easter holidays. If we get to summer without a vaccine, there will be calls to not go back to school at all after the summer holidays etc etc

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

That sounds like a school problem then, maybe if they wanted to be off on the 18th they should have arranged to be off on the 18th.

But this must mean that has been settled- the calendar is already planned so can't be altered now.

More a Dept problem

JimmyVik

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Frontline staff for example would find that extremely difficult . Most rosters are long sorted and off durty at that time is set in stone almost

Its to close the schools a week early and go back a week early. For the benefit of the whole country. To put a little break on the virus factory that is a school.

Maybe get teachers to mind the children of healthcare staff for a few days. ie a skeleton teaching staff in schools as babysitters for the children of frontline workers.

So if they organized it now frontline workers could book their kids in. Teachers could be scheduled for the days needed. And it would be easy enough.
I dont know any teacher who wouldnt be prepared to do this - well I only know 3 anyway, but im guessing they would all be happy enough to help out for something like this.

JDD

I get that health care workers have shifts rostered for those days already, but sure there must be some flexibility involved. What happened if one of your children was sick on the Monday and Tuesday that week? I understand that nearly everyone will now be looking for that Monday and Tuesday off, but if that wasn't feasible, surely MOST healthcare workers have an emergency option?

I mean, who takes care of the kids normally after school? Could they not ask their childminder/after school to work that day and a half extra? And if all else fails, couldn't shifts be amended so that those who have no other childcare option are not rostered for those, lets see, 10 hours that the kids would otherwise be in school?

i get that in other times people will have paid for flights to go on holidays or whatever, but that doesn't apply this year.

Are we really going to scupper a very sensible suggestion, because a small number of health care workers who have children in primary school and who do not have an emergency childcare option are going to cause a problem for rostering?

And yes, it is ridiculous that unions are looking for two extra days without making up the days elsewhere (or perhaps they are just silent on that?). However, they are UNIONS. Their very purpose is to get the best deal for their members. It certainly doesn't mean that the government can't propose that the days be made up elsewhere, at the end of the Christmas holiday or at Easter.

khalessi

HerrKuehn wrote: »

There isn't really any reason to finish early though. We had the same conversation about extending the November midterms. I will go out on a limb and say we will probably have the discussion about the Feb midterms and the Easter holidays. If we get to summer without a vaccine, there will be calls to not go back to school at all after the summer holidays etc etc

The weird thing is the TUI seem to have come up with this off their own bat, teachers didnt know about it. Yes schools are stressful for students and staff but no more than anywhere else at the minute. Like I said earlier I would prefer if they implemented the improvements promised during midterm, that were to be up and running when schools opened after midterm, on ground level I can see no difference.

Lillyfae

JimmyVik wrote: »

Its to close the schools a week early and go back a week early. For the benefit of the whole country. To put a little break on the virus factory that is a school.

People shouldnt get jealous about it.

They're not getting anything like this though, why would anyone be jealous?? Not to mention there's no evidence of the bit in bold whatsoever

JDD wrote: »

I get that health care workers have shifts rostered for those days already, but sure there must be some flexibility involved. What happened if one of your children was sick on the Monday and Tuesday that week? I understand that nearly everyone will now be looking for that Monday and Tuesday off, but if that wasn't feasible, surely MOST healthcare workers have an emergency option?

They are for emergencies. Closing schools 2 days early isn't an emergency

um7y1h83ge06nx

The teachers won't like this, the comments are FB regarding this are drawing a comparison with the teachers.

https://www.todayfm.com/news/nurses-who-are-self-isolating-are-being-asked-to-come-back-early-1107780?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3pzdImigkFkyMt-Tlfx9hEX9joNMErrLOJyb0hpvt-X_C7ycUSDWE5G_c#Echobox=1605701775

JimmyVik

Lillyfae wrote: »

They're not getting anything like this though, why would anyone be jealous?? Not to mention there's no evidence of the bit in bold whatsoever

They are for emergencies. Closing schools 2 days early isn't an emergency

Take a million people out of close contact with 30 others every day for a week, before they inevitably travel and mix with the elderly and others.
I think i'll take that.