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Waterford GAA Thread - Mod note post #1
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Stephen O'Keeffe is retiring0
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Sure this year showed they can be run off in a quick time frame and players are still getting games. Suppose its a bit of a 50/50 thing , one one hand its possible club players will be done and dusted by summer and they can go on holidays and that but on the other hand would club players be able to handle the tougher weather conditions of the end of winter/start of spring (suppose the AI clubs were held to a good standard in that time frame)
Out of curiosity, Where/when would they train?0 -
Alf Tupper wrote: »Stephen O'Keeffe is retiring
Great servent and exceptional shot-stopper in his day
But personally feel billy nolan has better puck-outs/distribution which is vital given the way,the game has gone0 -
Tipperary 5-18 Waterford 3-16
It was tough on Waterford to lose the way they did tonight, after putting in a huge effort and playing some good hurling in the process. However, Tipperary should never have been in a position to rescue the game in the last minute. I am of the view that had Michael Kiely been taking the frees instead of Kevin Mahony (who missed a penalty and four frees), Waterford would now be in the Munster Final.
Waterford clearly had put a lot of work into developing a short-passing game, which probably made a lot of sense given how good Tipperary can be in the air and one-on-one contests. However, on a wet and windy night, this was clearly a risky strategy which frequently broke down. Given that Waterford were playing with a strong wind in the first half, I thought they should have tried some shots for scores from distance, given that they frequently had clear possession around midfield.
I also thought they should have put more long ball into Michael Kiely. While his marker did win a fair amount of the ball which did come in, whenever Kiely got the ball in his hand he looked devastating. Early on, Alan Kirwan also showed that he had the beating of his man, but he too was starved of incoming ball.
Waterford played really well against the wind in the second half, despite some poor decision-making and ball control, and clearly had Tipperary rattled. However, well before the end it was clear that Tipperary were the fitter team, and this became a yawning gap in extra time. It has been clear in recent years that Waterford teams at this level have been well behind the opposition on this score. Remember two years ago when Waterford had Cork on the run up in Cork but fell away disastrously in the closing stages?
It obviously didn’t help either that three of Waterford’s best players (Iarlaith Daly, Sam Fitzgerald and Michael Kiely) had to go off injured. Apart from Johnny Burke (how he wasn’t a starter is beyond me) and Cormac Ryan, Waterford’s substitutes weren’t up to the level required, and I am mystified how Cárthach Daly, Oisín O’Gorman, Aaron Ryan and Mikey Cummins – all prominent in this year’s senior club championship – were not even in the matchday squad.
Even then, the first two of Tipperary’s extra-time goals came from bad defensive errors. Dean Beecher (who otherwise had a good game) committed the cardinal error of coming off his line and then batting the ball down to a Tipperary forward who fired into an empty goal, while an attempted pass infield was cut out by a vigilant Tipperary forward who cut through a Waterford defence caught on the wrong foot.
An interesting statistic from the game is that, of twelve rucks which had a definite outcome, Tipperary won ten.
While one is wary of spotting future potential talent from a game played in these conditions at this time of year, there was still some cheer for Waterford supporters in some excellent individual performances. Top of the list, obviously, was Michael Kiely who was already in Liam Cahill’s training squad at the beginning of the year, but unfortunately was knocked out for six months by injury. He is big, strong, very skillful with a great eye for a score. Sam Fitzgerald further reinforced his reputation as a good man marker, and I thought Paddy Leavy put in a good hour at midfield. Tadhg Foley, James Power and Alan Kirwan all showed good touches, while Luke O’Brien got through a mountain of work. Johnny Burke, who is big and strong, also again showed the ability to get on the ball and use it well which he showed for Dungarvan earlier in the year. Iarlaith Daly, of course, we already know about.
Waterford: Dean Beecher; Conor Ryan, Tadhg Foley, Luke O’Brien; Sam Fitzgerald (0-1), Gavin Fives (0-1) Iarlaith Daly; Paddy Leavy, Cian Wadding (0-1); James Power (0-2), Rory Furlong, Reuben Halloran (0-1); Kevin Mahony (0-4, frees); Michael Kiely (2-2, one penalty goal); Alan Kirwan (0-2).
Substitutes: Johnny Burke (0-1), Cormac Power (1-0), Oisín Ó Ceallagh, Eoghan O’Reilly, PJ Fanning, Éamonn Ó Crotaigh.
I’m missing a point here somewhere.0 -
Watching that match was far worse than watching on Sunday. At least on Sunday you knew we were being outplayed by a superior team. But tonight, even with the penalty miss, missed frees and unforced errors we still out playing Tipp through sheer determination and fight...until we found ourselves 4 points up with just minutes to go..then we shat ourselves. "We shouldn't be in this position against a team like Tipp" so we went into our shell and prayed for the final whistle with the hope of clinging on and predictably we got caught. Extra time but in reality we (and the players) knew it was game over..3-4 from Tipp in the first few minutes..normal service restored..we can relax now, the game is over so the pressure is gone and we can play again.
Nothing to do with lack of practice, tiredness, players going off, playing under lights..its all in the head!!!0 -
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Alf Tupper wrote: »Stephen O'Keeffe is retiring
? Really? One of the best keepers of the last 10 years, certainly thought there would be a few more years left in him.0 -
Giveitfong wrote: »Tipperary 5-18 Waterford 3-16
It was tough on Waterford to lose the way they did tonight, after putting in a huge effort and playing some good hurling in the process. However, Tipperary should never have been in a position to rescue the game in the last minute. I am of the view that had Michael Kiely been taking the frees instead of Kevin Mahony (who missed a penalty and four frees), Waterford would now be in the Munster Final.
Waterford clearly had put a lot of work into developing a short-passing game, which probably made a lot of sense given how good Tipperary can be in the air and one-on-one contests. However, on a wet and windy night, this was clearly a risky strategy which frequently broke down. Given that Waterford were playing with a strong wind in the first half, I thought they should have tried some shots for scores from distance, given that they frequently had clear possession around midfield.
I also thought they should have put more long ball into Michael Kiely. While his marker did win a fair amount of the ball which did come in, whenever Kiely got the ball in his hand he looked devastating. Early on, Alan Kirwan also showed that he had the beating of his man, but he too was starved of incoming ball.
Waterford played really well against the wind in the second half, despite some poor decision-making and ball control, and clearly had Tipperary rattled. However, well before the end it was clear that Tipperary were the fitter team, and this became a yawning gap in extra time. It has been clear in recent years that Waterford teams at this level have been well behind the opposition on this score. Remember two years ago when Waterford had Cork on the run up in Cork but fell away disastrously in the closing stages?
It obviously didn’t help either that three of Waterford’s best players (Iarlaith Daly, Sam Fitzgerald and Michael Kiely) had to go off injured. Apart from Johnny Burke (how he wasn’t a starter is beyond me) and Cormac Ryan, Waterford’s substitutes weren’t up to the level required, and I am mystified how Cárthach Daly, Oisín O’Gorman, Aaron Ryan and Mikey Cummins – all prominent in this year’s senior club championship – were not even in the matchday squad.
Even then, the first two of Tipperary’s extra-time goals came from bad defensive errors. Dean Beecher (who otherwise had a good game) committed the cardinal error of coming off his line and then batting the ball down to a Tipperary forward who fired into an empty goal, while an attempted pass infield was cut out by a vigilant Tipperary forward who cut through a Waterford defence caught on the wrong foot.
An interesting statistic from the game is that, of twelve rucks which had a definite outcome, Tipperary won ten.
While one is wary of spotting future potential talent from a game played in these conditions at this time of year, there was still some cheer for Waterford supporters in some excellent individual performances. Top of the list, obviously, was Michael Kiely who was already in Liam Cahill’s training squad at the beginning of the year, but unfortunately was knocked out for six months by injury. He is big, strong, very skillful with a great eye for a score. Sam Fitzgerald further reinforced his reputation as a good man marker, and I thought Paddy Leavy put in a good hour at midfield. Tadhg Foley, James Power and Alan Kirwan all showed good touches, while Luke O’Brien got through a mountain of work. Johnny Burke, who is big and strong, also again showed the ability to get on the ball and use it well which he showed for Dungarvan earlier in the year. Iarlaith Daly, of course, we already know about.
Waterford: Dean Beecher; Conor Ryan, Tadhg Foley, Luke O’Brien; Sam Fitzgerald (0-1), Gavin Fives (0-1) Iarlaith Daly; Paddy Leavy, Cian Wadding (0-1); James Power (0-2), Rory Furlong, Reuben Halloran (0-1); Kevin Mahony (0-4, frees); Michael Kiely (2-2, one penalty goal); Alan Kirwan (0-2).
Substitutes: Johnny Burke (0-1), Cormac Power (1-0), Oisín Ó Ceallagh, Eoghan O’Reilly, PJ Fanning, Éamonn Ó Crotaigh.
I’m missing a point here somewhere.
Kevin O'Mahoney is a poorer version of Paudie. Not a natural free taker and offers nothing from play. Just compare the way Kiely clung the penalty compared to Kevin's feeble effort. Ultimately the losing and winning of the game.0 -
Giveitfong wrote: »
Even then, the first two of Tipperary’s extra-time goals came from bad defensive errors. Dean Beecher (who otherwise had a good game) committed the cardinal error of coming off his line and then batting the ball down to a Tipperary forward who fired into an empty goal, while an attempted pass infield was cut out by a vigilant Tipperary forward who cut through a Waterford defence caught on the wrong foot.
An interesting statistic from the game is that, of twelve rucks which had a definite outcome, Tipperary won ten.
I’m missing a point here somewhere.
That's a good post. Tipp won playing badly, it's a sign of a good team. About 8 of that team have All-Ireland medals at this grade. This Tipp team know what they're doing and have belief, even if the sideline is on a learning curve - but you could hear the tipp management roaring, next puck out, next puck out, on YouTube - total belief, no panic, they knew the game was there.
The ruck statistic says everything you need to know about who had the heart and belief.
Waterford didn't just wilt as some people have posted. I wouldn't see it like that, Tipp out battled them and had a little bit more experience. I don't think an injury to Bowe or Connolly would have affected Tipp - Hackett or Devon Ryan wouldn't blink an eye. I don't think there should be doom and gloom on Waterford's performance. It was very good for a long stretch, but it had to be better. They needed a way bigger margin at halftime; they had done a lot of the hurling.
The goalkeeper did make a mistake - but that was a fantastic one handed first time pull to put it in the far corner, the keeper couldn't reach... - it was class. How many times has a chance been lost due to the time it takes to pick or adjust - split second stuff.0 -
Out of curiosity, Where/when would they train?
They can start training late Jan/Feb with the championships starting in March and then start training for IC when there club season is over/out of the championship. Have it like this year with a set date for IC training
Pity about Soky, brilliant goalkeeper and shot stopper, like every player had his good and bad days. He's still in his late 20s but the way the commitment of game is gone lads are retiring earlier. Kevin Moran will be next followed by Shane and Dara Fives0 -
I hope that's just a knee-jerk reaction from Stephen O'Keeffe - it's very unusual to call a decision while still going through the pain of an all-ireland loss. Hopefully he'll reconsider.
That said, anyone know if it's a Cahill decision? Hardly? He's hardly calling lads and calling for training already. But, with Cahill, I wouldn't be surprised if he was... the man is driven.0 -
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formerlyET wrote: »I hope that's just a knee-jerk reaction from Stephen O'Keeffe - it's very unusual to call a decision while still going through the pain of an all-ireland loss. Hopefully he'll reconsider.
That said, anyone know if it's a Cahill decision? Hardly? He's hardly calling lads and calling for training already. But, with Cahill, I wouldn't be surprised if he was... the man is driven.
Strange, especially considering the short turn around to next year.0 -
Is it confirmed he's retiring or just speculation?
Arguably Waterford's best goalkeeper from the last 50 years.0 -
I can confirm its speculation0
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Terrible rumour to be spreading.0
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Having a look through that posters previous posts he retired 2 players who played Sunday a year ago.0
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BloodyBill wrote: »Thats a fair post. Id agree with most of it. But your doing what you basically say Waterford shouldn't do and thats blame the ref for not being more severe on Limerick. Horgan had a good game but missed a few frees ,thats hurling,its a fast game. Hurling has lost the shoulder charge almost completely and for me it needs to retain all its physical attributes. You need to be able to dominate physically in field sports or else its just hockey
Burca was a huge loss. He's almost Limerick in how his demeanour and aggression is..Youd think he had Limerick blood in his veins. Huge loss cos he gives belief to those around him. Fagans miss was the most significant one..huge chance, he should have hit the target. In saying that Kyle Hayes should have scored his chance.
Your first point about Barrons 'free' . Well if we take your logic...a player should either move out of the way of a player running straight at him or let the player run straight into him ...but don't raise your arms to protect yourself. So any player can run straight into another player if his hurley is up around his chest and its a free..Dont think so . That inter County hurler you were talking to must have been Paul Flynn or some other corner forward.
Having reviewed the footage very closely, I stand corrected on the identity, it was Seamus Flanagan in the incident with Barron, however he did lead with his forearm, at throat height, which is not protecting yourself - for me a free all day, you cannot lead with the forearm. (we can agree to disagree) and the chap i spoke with was an out an out midfield battler.
For the record Flynn took plenty of punishment over the years without question.
As regards Horgan, i stated that he missed some crucial frees and failed to produce cards that may have had a different impact on players approach to the rest of the game. You are correct, hurling is a very fast game and referees miss things, it just so happens that Mr. Horgan has a history of missing far more when it comes to us.0 -
They can start training late Jan/Feb with the championships starting in March and then start training for IC when there club season is over/out of the championship. Have it like this year with a set date for IC training
Pity about Soky, brilliant goalkeeper and shot stopper, like every player had his good and bad days. He's still in his late 20s but the way the commitment of game is gone lads are retiring earlier. Kevin Moran will be next followed by Shane and Dara Fives
You’re not getting it. Very few clubs have floodlights So you expect them to train in the dark or at the weekends for 4 to 6 weeks and then play championship?0 -
Local_Chap wrote: »Is it confirmed he's retiring or just speculation?
Arguably Waterford's best goalkeeper from the last 50 years.
It’s nonsense0 -
formerlyET wrote: »That's a good post. Tipp won playing badly, it's a sign of a good team. About 8 of that team have All-Ireland medals at this grade. This Tipp team know what they're doing and have belief, even if the sideline is on a learning curve - but you could hear the tipp management roaring, next puck out, next puck out, on YouTube - total belief, no panic, they knew the game was there.
The ruck statistic says everything you need to know about who had the heart and belief.
Waterford didn't just wilt as some people have posted. I wouldn't see it like that, Tipp out battled them and had a little bit more experience. I don't think an injury to Bowe or Connolly would have affected Tipp - Hackett or Devon Ryan wouldn't blink an eye. I don't think there should be doom and gloom on Waterford's performance. It was very good for a long stretch, but it had to be better. They needed a way bigger margin at halftime; they had done a lot of the hurling.
The goalkeeper did make a mistake - but that was a fantastic one handed first time pull to put it in the far corner, the keeper couldn't reach... - it was class. How many times has a chance been lost due to the time it takes to pick or adjust - split second stuff.
Both Daly and Kiely were the stand out players. When they, Fitzgerald and Power went off, Waterford had little on the bench to replace them.
I’d argue that Kiely and Daly were so much better than any other player on the field that both going off would have altered any game.
Does anyone know if Bowe involved with the Tipp senior or extended panel last year?0 -
Giveitfong wrote: »Tipperary 5-18 Waterford 3-16
Fitness, S&C and player development
It has been clear in recent years that Waterford teams at this level have been well behind the opposition on this score. Remember two years ago when Waterford had Cork on the run up in Cork but fell away disastrously in the closing stages?
Instead of falling on our faces every year underage and them wondering why we can't end the famine at senior maybe we should stop blaming referees, fouling and money and do what Limerick managed to do from a similar position.
From Damien Lawlor
In 2014, Limerick underage hurling received a significant boost when their Under-15 side, managed by Leo O'Connor, won a Croke Park organised tournament.
O’Connor’s team beat Clare, Galway and Offaly along the way. Around the same time the Limerick Under-16 inter-divisional sides were also in full swing playing competitive games and tournaments.
The success of those teams stemmed from an underage set-up which originated in 2011 and remains the template that the current Limerick success thrives on today.
Many capable, passionate and progressive people were involved in lifting the Treaty.
One of those was Aine MacNamara, a lecturer in Elite Sports Performance and Exercise Psychology, who was involved in the original strategy document.
While Limerick won the Munster minor title in 2013 - a first since 1984 – the scrutiny remained on the long-term development of players over short-term success. Maybe that was not always the case in the county.
The Talent Academies, built by the likes of Shane Fitzgibbon, Liam Hayes, Eibhear O’Dea, Joe McKenna, Eamon Cregan, Joe Quaid, Leo O’Connor and many more began to recognise the shift in philosophy.
No more would short-term success come at the cost of long-term development in Limerick hurling. Between 2000 and 2002 the county, with Dave Keane at the helm, won three All-Ireland Under-21 titles in a row.
Several of the team played in that three-year block but there was no second album, no massive follow-through. Many of the team went onto play senior but some only featured in spurts. Limerick didn't subsequently set the world alight at senior level and they didn’t help themselves by having five different managers between 2000 and 2006 – including Cregan, Keane, Pad Joe Whelahan, McKenna and Richie Bennis. How could a team find itself with such turnover?
They didn’t reach a Munster U-21 final for another eight years either.
As the noughties passed, with a 2009 senior hammering to Tipperary labelled a real eureka moment, the likes of Fitzgibbon, O’Dea and McKenna stepped up.
The 2011 season saw a document for Limerick underage hurling formulated. Now there was some sort of structure.
It came after much frustration. At one underage trial a group of under-14s turned up and found only one sliotar to train with. The session was abandoned when that sliotar was lost.
At that time Munster rugby had captured the imagination and were still surfing a wave that saw them contest four European Cup finals, winning two, and stealing the hearts of many in Limerick city, county, the province and beyond.
That oval ball revolution saw Munster GAA to employ a dedicated hurling coach in Limerick in an effort to improve penetration. That helped.
A huge landmark was getting the juvenile divisions of the Limerick county board to come together and work within an academy-type system. A sub-committee was set up, driven by Fitzgibbon, O'Dea and Eamon Cregan.
They were told little would be accomplished. The boards would never unite, not enough quality coaches would come on board and the players were more interested in getting Limerick gear than committing fully.
A deaf ear was turned to that narrative. Before long, following meetings and follow-ups, the divisional boards were coerced to come together for the good of Limerick. A range of top-quality coaches were appointed, and the players loved the respective set-ups.
The first one on board was Cregan, a man who has done more than most for Limerick hurling. He took the Under-14s. Fitzgibbon himself took the Under-15s.
Ger Hegarty took control of the 16s, Anthony Carmody had the 17s and the likes of Brian Finn, Ger Cunningham, Frankie Carroll and Mike Galligan all played roles too.
Jerry Wallace was installed as the director of hurling for the underage academy system.
And how the coaches coached changed. Áine MacNamara brought every Limerick manager into a meeting one evening – from senior boss John Allen all the way down to the under14s. They were asked if they wanted their teams primarily to win. Almost every hand went up. But the managers were told that only John Allen’s hand - as senior manager – should be raised. The rest should be in situ to develop their hurlers for the long-term good of Limerick hurling.
After much persuasion, and despite the concerns of traditionalists, Andy Murphy was brought in as Strength and Conditioning coach. Another step up the ladder.
They started off lifting no weights, only focusing on technique. The mantra was that by the time older they would be savage athletes. Again, that was later proved right.
After Fitzgibbon, O’Dea and company had gone to work, a new five-year Limerick Strategic plan recognised that 57% of primary school children in Limerick city were now playing Gaelic Games. Five years earlier it had been just eight per cent. Work on the ground was already paying off.
The 'Lifting the Treaty’ paper had served a huge purpose as did the backing of Gerry and JP McManus some years later.
Saturday mornings at UL became an institution for the Limerick coaching and games development section. They used the new astroturf pitches at UL as a base for the Academy. Between 9am and 1pm the minor team, followed by the Under-16s, 15s and 14s would train. They worked in cycles of six weeks meaning that no schedule, goal or target was too overwhelming.
At underage, under Joe Quaid, they won All-Ireland plates at Under-15 and an All-Ireland A title the following year. Building all the time. Players like Seán Finn, Cian Lynch and Aaron Gillane were part of a squad that won the All-Ireland U-16 title with Quaid and became a showcase for the Academy 'system'.
Gillane is a perfect example of what hard work and proper coaching can achieve as he had been part of ‘B’ teams up to that point. He’s now one of the leading hurlers in the land.
Brian Ryan's Munster MHC-winning teams of 2013 and 2014 drove the project on. There were under-21 provincial crowns in 2015 and 2017. Limerick were humming.
All the time, John Kiely was forging his own path, from Under-21 selector to Under-21 manager to county intermediate manager before assuming the top role.
With the right man in charge, the players prepared in the right way, and with the correct structures and resourcing Limerick managed to build something magnificent.
That second album is what they’re looking for now. That’s the next goal.0 -
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They were Waterford's better players alright. It's just one game though...Both Daly and Kiely were the stand out players. When they, Fitzgerald and Power went off, Waterford had little on the bench to replace them.
I’d argue that Kiely and Daly were so much better than any other player on the field that both going off would have altered any game.
Does anyone know if Bowe involved with the Tipp senior or extended panel last year?
I think Kiely still has a lot to prove- like Bowe - basing your game on physically overpowering full backs won't happen at senior level - not against Casey, Morrissey, Burke, or Ronan Maher. I've seen it so many times with Tipp under age teams throughout the years. Often it's the forwards who are forced to figure out other ways of engagement and then fill out later who make it. I think there's been a fair few Waterford examples too. He didn't look like a natural forward to me - he should have scored a lot more. If he makes the breakthrough and keeps it up, he'll probably play further out the field in future years. Bowe will face the same test. But even on an night where he had his very own man marker, who followed him everywhere, he scored more from play than Kiely and scored seven points from play against Clare I think. And Bowe was very good last year - a lot of goals and points. Bowe is strictly a forward, whereas Kiely looks like he coud play midfield or half back -(and probably should) - looks aerially very strong, sees the pass, and can burst tackles.
For me, there was nobody anywhere near Connolly. Like Devon Ryan got 2-10 last night and was hungry for more, but Connolly is on another planet in terms of pace, power, drive, and presence.
It doesn't work like that, though. You've got to power on - you can't let losing any player rattle you or affect you. See the semi against Wexford last year. A team or squad that let's injuries affects them are not going to win. Limerick didn't this year. Ryan McCormack, a player who played with Borrisoleigh in the all-ireland club final last year and was outstanding against Clare, went off injured - Tipp didn't blink, just got on with it.
Fitzgerald went off in the last minute of time - Waterford were well on the ropes by the then - trying to hang onto a lead. And Kiely went off after the game was secure.0 -
There's some difference between trying to strangle a game in the sunshine in August compared to a hurricane in December.
From the 31st minute to the 65th Waterford led the second half (by which I mean Tipp brought it back to 2 points and we were 3 up when the goal went in). Will you stop with this Tipp propaganda.0 -
mountgomery burns wrote: »There's some difference between trying to strangle a game in the sunshine in August compared to a hurricane in December.
From the 31st minute to the 65th Waterford led the second half (by which I mean Tipp brought it back to 2 points and we were 3 up when the goal went in). Will you stop with this Tipp propaganda.
Alright, just discussing the match! Didn't realise it's a personal sore point! Signing off, Captain Waterford!0 -
mountgomery burns wrote: »There's some difference between trying to strangle a game in the sunshine in August compared to a hurricane in December.
From the 31st minute to the 65th Waterford led the second half (by which I mean Tipp brought it back to 2 points and we were 3 up when the goal went in). Will you stop with this Tipp propaganda.
I expect to see such comments in the kilkenny forum but not here, aswell as telling a lad to head back to the tipp forum last night when discussing the game and then you post on the tipp forum yourself last night(hypocrisy much).0 -
" The divisional boards were coerced to come together for the good of Limerick" what are the chances of this happening in Waterford, better competitions are needed for both players and supporters.0
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formerlyET wrote: »They were Waterford's better players alright. It's just one game though...
I think Kiely still has a lot to prove- like Bowe - basing your game on physically overpowering full backs won't happen at senior level - not against Casey, Morrissey, Burke, or Ronan Maher. I've seen it so many times with Tipp under age teams throughout the years. Often it's the forwards who are forced to figure out other ways of engagement and then fill out later who make it. I think there's been a fair few Waterford examples too. He didn't look like a natural forward to me - he should have scored a lot more. If he makes the breakthrough and keeps it up, he'll probably play further out the field in future years. Bowe will face the same test. But even on an night where he had his very own man marker, who followed him everywhere, he scored more from play than Kiely and scored seven points from play against Clare I think. And Bowe was very good last year - a lot of goals and points. Bowe is strictly a forward, whereas Kiely looks like he coud play midfield or half back -(and probably should) - looks aerially very strong, sees the pass, and can burst tackles.
For me, there was nobody anywhere near Connolly. Like Devon Ryan got 2-10 last night and was hungry for more, but Connolly is on another planet in terms of pace, power, drive, and presence.
It doesn't work like that, though. You've got to power on - you can't let losing any player rattle you or affect you. See the semi against Wexford last year. A team or squad that let's injuries affects them are not going to win. Limerick didn't this year. Ryan McCormack, a player who played with Borrisoleigh in the all-ireland club final last year and was outstanding against Clare, went off injured - Tipp didn't blink, just got on with it.
Fitzgerald went off in the last minute of time - Waterford were well on the ropes by the then - trying to hang onto a lead. And Kiely went off after the game was secure.
I’m not saying that Kiely is a finished product, far from it and there are a lot of improvements that he will need to apply to make it at the highest level.
I’m making the point that both he and Daly has such an influence on yesterday’s game that when they went off, the game would obviously change. Bowe was quiet when Daly was half back and Bowe does come with a big reputation.
Was JD injured? I thought he would have started for Tipp and again comes with huge pedigree and reputation. He didn’t particularly look fit last night and I suspect that was the case with a good few of the Tipp and Waterford lads.0 -
iebamm2580 wrote: »I expect to see such comments in the kilkenny forum but not here, aswell as telling a lad to head back to the tipp forum last night when discussing the game and then you post on the tipp forum yourself last night(hypocrisy much).
Yeah that was regrettable in fairness now. I was sick I'll be honest after the final whistle, so to see a lad writing "Waterford didn't want to win that game" got to me.
And to be honest I will stand over it, if I came on and said the same thing about Tipp and ye bet in that fashion plenty of lads would tell me where to go. Personally I think that game was lost in the first half, hard to see how it could be said otherwise with the chances missed.
They just about got done on the line by a piece of brilliance, they were right to try and hang on to what they had against a gale. If they'd left themselves exposed and conceded two goals 10 mins earlier people would have said they were naive.
You can't win when you lose.
Edit: I'll stand over getting annoyed I should say but I have no business telling lads where they can post.0 -
Having reviewed the footage very closely, I stand corrected on the identity, it was Seamus Flanagan in the incident with Barron, however he did lead with his forearm, at throat height, which is not protecting yourself - for me a free all day, you cannot lead with the forearm. (we can agree to disagree) and the chap i spoke with was an out an out midfield battler.
For the record Flynn took plenty of punishment over the years without question.
As regards Horgan, i stated that he missed some crucial frees and failed to produce cards that may have had a different impact on players approach to the rest of the game. You are correct, hurling is a very fast game and referees miss things, it just so happens that Mr. Horgan has a history of missing far more when it comes to us.
Fair point on Horgan. He hasn't been Waterfords friend. Although there's no hurling ref right now who's great. They all have a few fairly serious flaws. You need 2 refs in hurling because the linesmen do nothing to help and the umpires aren't up to much. Witness Gordon getting zero help and taking 10 mins on the Tipp picked off the ground and thrown goal this year. On Sunday I noticed one umpire called a 65 late in the game for Waterford...Nash touched it and was near it the ball was on the line clearly ,umpire was there.. I would bet 500 quid that that umpire still thinks he made the right call and doesn't know that the whole of the ball has to be over the whole of the line...Look at Hawkeye...ball breaks the plane of the crossbar and its given as a point. Thats against the rules...again whole of the ball has to be over the bar.0 -
There appears to be general surprise in the media, and among some posters here, at how competitive Waterford were in last night’s Under 20 game against Tipperary. This includes the TG4 commentator MacDara Mac Donncha who is based in Ring and writes the weekly GAA column for the Dungarvan Leader.
Waterford have been quite competitive at minor level in recent years. In 2018 they beat Tipperary in Thurles (and played Limerick off the park in Limerick). Last year I am convinced they would have again beaten Tipperary in Thurles had Rory Furlong, one of their best players, not been sent off before half-time. They were also robbed of a win over Limerick by a dubious last-minute free (although they should have won the game anyway).
A lot of last night’s players also stood out in this year’s senior club championship (and in the intermediate championship in the case of Sam Fitzgerald, who did a wonderful marking job on Mikey Kearney in the western final). I for one was expecting a good performance from Waterford and that was what we got.0 -
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The minor win against tipp was in limerick. 4 away games in 21 days they had in 20180
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