Wokeism of the day *Revised Mod Note in OP and threadbanned users*

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332288#Comment_120332288

We’re obviously working off different ideas of what constitutes a polite post in that case. Legs didn’t want me breaking her balls so I figured fair enough, we’ll move on so. Nothing sneery about it, only how you chose to interpret it.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332377#Comment_120332377

This doesn’t even make any sense

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332433#Comment_120332433

It doesn't. It's arguing for the sake of arguing. Everyone knows that just wearing a g-string to hold in your bulge, contorting your body upside down, then strutting around, ass cheeks on show, is what happens in a strip club. There's no "depends on the context" about it. As everyone knows. And twisting is when someone says you said something which you never said (usually beginning with "So you...") and then doubles down on it.

Who the hell "wrestles" anyway?

CGI_Livia_Soprano

Wrestlers.

The fact of matter is that infants and toddlers wouldn’t register things like g strings, and strutting(!), as anything sexual. They would just see it as silly dancing. It’s like bringing a sleeping baby to a play or the cinema.

All of this “it’s erotica for babies” stuff is just a prudish, adult invention by people who are inferring something that doesn’t exist.

Kids don't wrestle in the playground. The only wrestling that people find arousing... well it's hardly Hulk Hogan and SCSA. It's chicks hot oil wrestling.

It's not erotica for babies. It's just erotica. And not for toddlers - and deciding "Hey let's do pole dancing nearly naked as entertainment for kids" is fking weird. Obviously. Pretending that this view is suddenly an unreasonable one is silly. One of your sillier attempts to goad and undermine me.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

Just to follow up on my previous post:

for the people who think that a person dressed in a G string dancing in the same room as babies is inappropriate please answer me these questions: how exactly is that performance sexually provocative? What is the difference between that performance and, say, scantily clad young people playing volleyball on the beach in shorts or bikinis?

If your answers are something along the lines of “that’s what they do in strip clubs,” then remember this:

Babies don’t know what a strip club is, they don’t know what a stripper is or what sex is. They are completely blissfully unaware of sex and sexuality, all they see is a person dancing with zero additional context.

That additional context, all of it, every single sweaty bit of it, is interpreted as such only by older people.

A few posters have asked the usual “they call it snowballing Joe” types to explain how something that isn’t sexual could be seen as sexual by a person who doesn’t even know what sex is, but as per usual they skirted the issue by claiming that their posts were misinterpreted, they were being gaslit, transwomen. The usual auld guff.

Why bring toddlers to a pole-dancing show? Why decide "let's do a show that babies and toddlers will be brought along to, featuring pole-dancing guy in a g-string and nothing else but stripper heels"?

Now nobody would accept women in skimpy bra and g-string pole-dancing in that context (and rightly so) but in this case people are faux enquiring "what do you mean? Nothing wrong with that? And what about [insert totally invalid comparison]" because:

- it's drag so they must look liberal at all costs

- they can't be seen to agree with a conservative point of view (even though it's not conservative)

- they're arguing for the sake of it

- they need to look cool

- they enjoy undermining people, calling them prudes etc

Criticism of the drag story telling outrage I get, because drag queens all dressed up in "frocks" is not sexual. That's pretty pearl-clutching for sure.

But this? Secretly anyone would be thinking "Dude in tiny g-string and just heels pole-dancing and toddlers watching? Nah, that's just off."

CGI_Livia_Soprano

There’s nothing off about it, the kids don’t even register it. The off-ness is in your own head.

It’s been explained over and over again why there isn’t nothing wrong with it, really, and people still come in saying it’s “off” because it just is. No real evidence, just feelings over facts. I thought the woke crowd were supposed to be the crowd who got triggered over nothing.

Cordell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk0rwV22C_s

Not really woke by today's standards, but still unfortunate and ironic choice of words: "It's time to break the sound barrier Mia!" - if you manage to to that in a Ryanair plane you really fcked up real bad.

Thinking one thing but pretending not to must be tiring. We all know that a lapdancer in just a thong, dancing only feet from a toddler, is just inappropriate! 😊

And bless the contrarians, who always thought that and now they have to pretend it's totally fine and normal and always was. Doing your best Winston, folks!

Rothko

Some people seem really desperate to defend it. It's not the first time it's happened and, to be honest, I'd become suspicious of anyone that pretends not to see the sexual aspect to it.

Can we knock off the childish fighting

purifol0

Hey lets play a fun game. To all the women who say there is nothing wrong with bringing your baby to a male poledancing show during the day with their gal pals. How about we reverse the genders on that. Men doing daddy day care at the stripclub with the dad lads while their wives are at work providing for their family!

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332993#Comment_120332993

That’s not a valid comparison when you consider that there are more examples of “adult” behaviour in many (not all) stripclubs such as prostitution, scenes of simulated sex, drug taking, alcohol abuse, donkey shows, outbreaks of violence, and so on.

A stripclub is a very distinct entity from the kind of dancing-in-a-community-hall-like performances we are talking about.

Edit: I just saw Raichu’s mod warning and I’ll leave it at that.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333424#Comment_120333424

It’s true that it’s not a valid comparison, it’s not any kind of a comparison really as it’s simply not possible to just ‘reverse the genders’ but, having said that - there doesn’t need to be a comparison. The idea of bringing children to any form of a burlesque show, even a piss-poor quality Dealz standard effort (and nowhere near the level of CDS ffs 😂) like the one being discussed here, is just dumb. There’s places and activities which are appropriate for adults, which aren’t appropriate for children, or babies, no matter whether they’re fully aware of what’s going on around them or not. The point is the adults are, and would be expected to know better.

And believe me I get that expectations rarely align with reality, but you don’t have to purposely try and do dumb shìt and then try and pass it off afterwards as fun entertainment for all the family when how dumb it is is pointed out. I’d say the same of anyone who thought it was a good idea to bring children to places advertised as being for adults, like bookies, pubs, etc, they don’t have to be cavorting practically naked in rubber suits, thongs and high heels to be inappropriate for children, that’s just the extreme that nobody had previously thought of, and for good reason.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333424#Comment_120333424

you can discuss the topic if you want I am simply asking everyone to remain civil as there was a page or two of rather childish bickering, accusations of gaslighting etc which were far removed from the topic at hand

I’m not stopping you discussing it though not by any stretch. It’s a very interesting discussion to have imo let’s all just try and keep cool while we do so.

As for the strip club comparison made (and that sly dig about “working to provide) there’s so much wrong there I don’t even know where to start.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333478#Comment_120333478

There’s places and activities which are appropriate for adults, which aren’t appropriate for children, or babies, no matter whether they’re fully aware of what’s going on around them or not. The point is the adults are, and would be expected to know better.

Here’s the thing: me and at least one other poster have explained exactly it is not inappropriate (babies aren’t aware of eroticism so they don’t register it as sexual, and without that that context it is not erotic), and not a single person with the opposing view has provided their reasons why except for extremely vague assertions that “everyone knows” it’s “off.”

Quite unlike the so-called woke posters who are using genuine rhetorical devices like allegory, facts, and coming to logical conclusions based on evidence to explain exactly why dancing in a leather g string in close proximity to babies isn’t actually harmful if you think about it, the “non-wokies” are appealing to base emotional concerns, accusing their opponents of trolling, and crying about their points being twisted.

It’s genuinely so manipulative. Speaking for myself, all I ever ask for in a debate such as this is the person I am talking to to explain their ideas, actually explain it, without resorting to personal insults and accuse me of bullying them for challenging their views. Allow me to ask one more time and I would love for someone to answer it properly:

Why is it inappropriate for an infant to see someone dancing in a thong and knee high boots when the infant is not aware of any erotic contexts, and the dancer is not more undressed than a sunbather on the beach or someone going for a run shirtless in the summer?

Is it possible for someone to actually explain why without resorting to vague gut-feeling palaver about “you just know it’s not right” or “it makes me uncomfortable,” or some other nonsense.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333424#Comment_120333424

But the babies don’t know what any of that is.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333779#Comment_120333779

Yes but babies (at least their parents) are at risk of being physically abused and attacked by people who are abusing alcohol, taking drugs, and so on.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333743#Comment_120333743

That’s not a valid comparison when you consider that there are more examples of “adult” behaviour in many (not all) stripclubs such as prostitution, scenes of simulated sex, drug taking, alcohol abuse, donkey shows, outbreaks of violence, and so on.

But if "It doesn't register" with the babies and toddlers why is it an issue? If it’s not an issue in one setting it surely wouldn't be in another, in your opinion, of course?

I don't frequent strip clubs but I'd imagine there's plenty of security for the safety of the strippers and to prevent, or quickly stop, outbreaks of violence.

The simulated sex, alcohol and drug use wouldn't register with the babies and toddlers, so why do you think that's unsuitable?

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333828#Comment_120333828

An sudden outbreak of violence, even if it extinguished almost immediately can cause a lot of damage very quickly. Someone out of their head on drugs or alcohol could, “for a laugh,” seriously hurt an infant in a stripclub.

I believe that it’s not right for very very young children to be around people who are taking hard drugs or abusing alcohol (meaning getting drunk, as opposed to drinking moderately e.g a glass of wine with lunch) for those reasons. People who abuse drugs and alcohol can simply be too unpredictable.

As for the simulated sex I think that very young children, even if they are unaware of the erotic context, tend to copy behaviour they have seen grown ups do.

So while I think strutting in heels or what have you is comparatively harmless, I think that it would not be appropriate for toddlers to mimic actual sexual behaviour such as penetrative acts, sexual positions and so on.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333743#Comment_120333743

Quite unlike the so-called woke posters who are using genuine rhetorical devices like allegory, facts, and coming to logical conclusions based on evidence to explain exactly why dancing in a leather g string in close proximity to babies isn’t actually harmful if you think about it…

Did you ever ask yourself whether other people might want to think about that? I know I sure as hell don’t want to think about it, nor have I any intention of interrogating my own biases as to why I think it’s inappropriate for adults to be dancing in close proximity to babies who have no choice but to be subjected to that shyte because their adult caregivers are irresponsible adults who put their own needs before those of their children. In the example under discussion, I don’t think it’s woke, I don’t think it’s perverted, it’s just… dumb.

Why is it inappropriate for an infant to see someone dancing in a thong and knee high boots when the infant is not aware of any erotic contexts, and the dancer is not more undressed than a sunbather on the beach or someone going for a run shirtless in the summer?

It’s not that it’s just inappropriate for infants to see someone dancing in a thong and knee high boots, it’s that the adults involved ever thought children would want to see that in the first place. The organisers are quite clear about their intentions - this is for adults, mothers who are sick of ‘wheels on the bus’ on repeat. It’s not even about entertaining babies, they’re just… there! (I suppose it’s not like they have places to be 😂), but the comparisons you’re making are as equally ill-conceived as the ‘gender swap’ thought experiment.

Cabaret shows aimed at an adult audience is an entirely different concept to the idea of exposing children to a sporting activity or a leisure activity in which the attire or lack thereof is of no value whatsoever because it neither adds nor detracts anything from the activity, whereas the costumes and overt sexualisation are an integral element of the performance with respect to Cabaret.

That’s why with regard to the example being discussed here, fundamentally I think it’s just ripping off adults who are bored with their children and don’t want to have to endure another round of wheels on the bus. To them I’d simply say welcome to the world of raising children, where children’s needs come first before your own need to be entertained. It’s a fundamental aspect of being an adult, as opposed to indulging in reverting to a childlike state themselves.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333993#Comment_120333993

Did you ever ask yourself whether other people might want to think about that? I know I sure as hell don’t want to think about it

Well, and I mean this with all due respect, then you have no place debating this topic in a discussion forum.

Forums such as these are for the exchange of ideas and sometimes when that happens people will need to question their own biases and beliefs.

Like I said before, there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with babies attending any kind of dance performance and all of these “it’s wrong because… it just is!!!” comments are from people who absolutely refuse to question their own hardwired beliefs.

It’s the kind of typical prudishness you get from the “hey I’m no bigot, I think people should live and let live unless it makes me uncomfortable” crowd on here.

That’s genuinely why I love debating on this site: it is swarming with crypto-bigots who think that they’re not full of hate because they don’t use racial or homophobic slurs but as soon as someone behaves in a manner that doesn’t conform to what they think is “normal” it’s all tantrums and fire and brimstone.

I’m still waiting for someone to explain what’s actually wrong with someone dancing in a g string and knee high boots around infants, apart from “I don’t like it.” But I won’t hold my breath. 😎 😉

Paterson Jerins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332377#Comment_120332377

Do you ever admit you're wrong???

Your posts are just bizarre.

Evade

Just because they won't remember doesn't make it right. They used to perform surgery on babies without anesthesia for that same reason. It's much easier to enforce if the precedent is no children instead of only children that are too young to remember because that's a very grey area.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334063#Comment_120334063

Bloody hell mate, you’re gone off on a different tangent entirely with the crypto-bigots stuff 😂

No, the reason I don’t interrogate it is because I don’t need the mental image of adults cavorting around infants while their adult caregivers look on as though this is great entertainment… for the adults! Because as you so clearly point out - the infants aren’t even aware of it, nor are their needs being considered. It’s entirely about adults entertaining themselves.

I know you mean it with respect, but telling me I have no place in a discussion because I’m unwilling to entertain the idea of bored adults engaging in dumb shìt for the sole purposes of their own entertainment and I’m not prepared to entertain nonsense about why it isn’t harmful to infants is bloody convenient from your perspective. It means you can just stick to imagining anyone who doesn’t think it’s a good example to set for children is only a prude anyway. Call me a prude with bells on for all I care, because as far as I’m concerned the argument isn’t about either of us personally, it’s about the idea under discussion.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120334239#Comment_120334239

You’re living in a dream world if you think parents are obliged only to attend entertainment functions that are aimed at children.

Many parents take their kids to rock concerts, the theatre, opera, and so on, most of which are not aimed at children. Parents can pursue their own interests with kids in tow, particularly when they cause no harm in children (such as the dance show we’re talking about)

Backstreet Moyes

So the main reason for this to be okay is that a child doesn't know what eroticism is so they don't register it as sexual.

So I assume you also think it would be okay for parents to have sex in front of a child or watch porn in front of them.

They don't know its eroticism so there should be no problem with it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333638#Comment_120333638

It's very easy to just say there's so much wrong etc but such a statement should be backed up.

I'm repeating myself because people are handwaving it away so much. A man wearing a g-string, butt cheeks exposed, very obvious bulge, and nothing else but high heels... pole-dancing... how is it unreasonable to say this is what happens in a strip club?

Not a sex show, just a run of the mill strip club.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333424#Comment_120333424

I've been to strip clubs and live sex shows in over a dozen countries. One thing they all had in common was very tight security. Any hint of violence, alcohol or drug abuse was dealt with very, very quickly. Saw much more of that at regular clubs and pubs. Prostitution, in some countries it's legal and attached to ateip clubs. Donkey show?!? Ewwwww. Gross.

As for taking a baby or toddler to a strip club, no. I want to have fun at those places and looking after a toddler or baby is not fun. Same with taking them to a night club or bar or movie or sports event. No thanks.