How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Seeing as you are so enthralled with the Irish system from your base in Holland I'm assuming that you have read the document. Procurement of hand sanitiser, dispensers and other stuff is to be accessed via a central system. Document says this will be available sometime in August and delivery will be straight to the school. Alot of schools are meant to be open in some form for children from the 25th of August. That gives 11 working days after today. I'd be very surprised if whatever system they launch is fit for purpose.

As regards the "pile em high" comment. That's our way of saying we gotta fit them in. We don't have space for an overflow area, we also don't just happen to have staff floating around with nothing to do to supervise said area if we had it. Point being made by the principal was they'll be in school so figure it out.

If you want the dimensions and orientation of the room along with the number of students and the position of the IWB and have a go at arranging them to meet the current guidelines then be my guest. Others on here have taken on this challenge from other teachers on here and failed.

I don't know how sanitiser is going to solve a space problem. I wouldn't have thought that rental of extra space or costs for building work could be ordered via an app.

It's the principals job to make a list of things that are needed to make the school safe. Sanitiser, rental of a venue for extra space or building works. Alternatively, they could do a proper assessment and inform the BoM and the DoE how many students each classroom can safely hold and what the difference is between that and the current number of students.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

I don't know how sanitiser is going to solve a space problem. I wouldn't have thought that rental of extra space or costs for building work could be ordered via an app.

It's the principals job to make a list of things that are needed to make the school safe. Sanitiser, rental of a venue for extra space or building works. Alternatively, they could do a proper assessment and inform the BoM and the DoE how many students each classroom can safely hold and what the difference is between that and the current number of students.

I'm assuming they have but there are no extra teachers allocated to our sector. That's the harsh reality. The plan is full of holes and BS. We'll just muddle through as we are expected to.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

I don't know how sanitiser is going to solve a space problem. I wouldn't have thought that rental of extra space or costs for building work could be ordered via an app.

It's the principals job to make a list of things that are needed to make the school safe. Sanitiser, rental of a venue for extra space or building works. Alternatively, they could do a proper assessment and inform the BoM and the DoE how many students each classroom can safely hold and what the difference is between that and the current number of students.

The government announced they would procure centralised supplies of sanitiser and it was reported in the paper. What was not reported as widely was in another document just realeased before July provision started was 2 lines which said the schools could buy it themelves and be reimbursed at a later stage, which considering their first magnaminous annoucement was a farce as schools couldnt afford it. So then release of annoucement re guidelines and schools are asking parents to send in disinfectant, while central supplies still to happen.

Meanwhile re building the schools have to get 3 tenders before any building can occur, that is three tenders for every step building electrics plumbing carpentry etc, which will slow down that side of things.

Oh and NOrma said all of this was to be exhauseted before even the idea of hiring space could be considered

downthemiddle

Lillyfae wrote: »

I don't know how sanitiser is going to solve a space problem. I wouldn't have thought that rental of extra space or costs for building work could be ordered via .

The planning and building section in the DES do not have the technology to open pictures sent as attachments to emails. I fear an app might be slightly beyond their capabilities.

Akabusi

I heard our local school is putting in fan hand dryers so the kids can quickly dry their hands after all the extra hand washing. I would have thought that this is a bad idea, the last thing you want to be doing is blowing particles around.

downthemiddle

Lillyfae wrote: »

It's the principals job to make a list of things that are needed to make the school safe.

It’s not actually, it is the responsibility of the BOM. However in most cases the board will pass the buck to the principal.

wirelessdude01

[quote="khalessi;114243053"

Meanwhile re building the schools have to get 3 tenders before any building can occur, that is three tenders for every step building electrics plumbing carpentry etc, which will slow down that side of things.

Oh and NOrma said all of this was to be exhauseted before even the idea of hiring space could be considered[/quote]

My friend who I met at the weekend and who is a principal at home said that they have their three tenders in for works but the earliest start date from any of them is at a push the week after Halloween. He suspects and I've said it on here as well that once schools are back open and muddling their way through without the necessary works that the works will just be out on the long finger. He said the feeling amongst the principals at home is that this is all just PR.

wirelessdude01

Akabusi wrote: »

I heard our local school is putting in fan hand dryers so the kids can quickly dry their hands after all the extra hand washing. I would have thought that this is a bad idea, the last thing you want to be doing is blowing particles around.

But the document makes it clear that it isn't airborne.

We are looking at automated hand towel dispensers but I asked the principal to hold off as I suspect these won't fall under the centralised procurement system and we don't have that sort of money sitting in an account.

Akabusi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

But the document makes it clear that it isn't airborne.

We are looking at automated hand towel dispensers but I asked the principal to hold off as I suspect these won't fall under the centralised procurement system and we don't have that sort of money sitting in an account.

The song "lets face the music and dance" springs to mind.

downthemiddle

Lillyfae wrote: »

You can't possibly know what is going on all over the country. Admitted by the teachers here, a few principals have either washed their hands of it completely.

Many more principals are working tirelessly to ensure the safest possible return to school for their communities. They are also aware that teachers in their schools are facing a difficult year ahead and do not want to impinge unnecessarily on staff holidays especially when further clarification is due on the guidelines from the DES It is pointless announcing definitive back to school protocols for a community and then having to backtrack because the DES moves the goalposts. That would only damage confidence rather than reassure people.

wirelessdude01

Akabusi wrote: »

The song "lets face the music and dance" springs to mind.

Haha. The document was using out of date information when it was launched and is now further out of date after the ECDC release yesterday. Govt are now going to have to pony up for appropriate PPE for all staff in schools regardless of what sector. Will be interesting what they are going to do with the PP students with regards to masks. Will be interesting to see if they will try and weasel out of what the ECDC advises/recommends.

wirelessdude01

downthemiddle wrote: »

Many more principals are working tirelessly to ensure the safest possible return to school for their communities. They are also aware that teachers in their schools are facing a difficult year ahead and do not want to impinge unnecessarily on staff holidays especially when further clarification is due on the guidelines from the DES It is pointless announcing definitive back to school protocols for a community and then having to backtrack because the DES moves the goalposts. That would only damage confidence rather than reassure people.

But sure some people don't like the reality of the situation to inform their opinion. They have a viewpoint and no-one or nothing will change it.

Lillyfae

downthemiddle wrote: »

Many more principals are working tirelessly to ensure the safest possible return to school for their communities. They are also aware that teachers in their schools are facing a difficult year ahead and do not want to impinge unnecessarily on staff holidays especially when further clarification is due on the guidelines from the DES It is pointless announcing definitive back to school protocols for a community and then having to backtrack because the DES moves the goalposts. That would only damage confidence rather than reassure people.

Many are I'm sure, but many aren't. Any decent manager needs to keep their team up to date on situations that massively affect them, their workplaces, their jobs. I agree that the DoE are not providing adequate environments in which teachers and students can reasonably safely return to schools but that does not negate the fact that principals have to do the work to identify exactly what is needed in their own school and communicate that to their management, their staff and parents. Not just shrug it off or stay shtum. The reassurance that they should be providing is that they are doing everything they can be doing, and if the situation changes, as it is constantly doing, then they need to change with it.

This is a very dynamic situation, backtracking is to be expected. Planning and communication is what's needed now.

Murple

Akabusi wrote: »

I heard our local school is putting in fan hand dryers so the kids can quickly dry their hands after all the extra hand washing. I would have thought that this is a bad idea, the last thing you want to be doing is blowing particles around.

Taken from the plan for reopening primary schools:

"Hot air dryers are an acceptable alternative for hand drying but must be regularly maintained. There is no evidence that hand dryers are associated with increased risk of transmission of COVID-19."

Boggles

Murple wrote: »

Taken from the plan for reopening primary schools:

"Hot air dryers are an acceptable alternative for hand drying but must be regularly maintained. There is no evidence that hand dryers are associated with increased risk of transmission of COVID-19."

There is no evidence or no study?

2 completely different things.

khalessi

Boggles wrote: »

There is no evidence or no study?

2 completely different things.

or there is this
https://www.sciencealert.com/bathroom-hand-dryers-spread-bacteria#:~:text=Because%20it%20turns%20out%2C%20while,a%20whirlpool%20of%20faecal%20matter.&text=The%20researchers%20concluded%20that%20%22many,exposed%20to%20bathroom%20hand%20dryers.%22

Take your pick

Murple

Boggles wrote: »

There is no evidence or no study?

2 completely different things.

Not saying I agree at all. A poster was expressing concern at what the school was doing. I'm just confirming it was permitted by the plan.

combat14

serious rumours of lockdown coming for laois, offaly and kildare possibly as soon as tonight.. hard to see schools in these counties opening at this rate ..

khalessi

combat14 wrote: »

serious rumours of lockdown coming for laois, offaly and kildare possibly as soon as tonight.. hard to see schools in these counties opening at this rate ..

where rumour from?

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

where rumour from?

I've seen people mentioning not on twitter. Many teachers wondering what would happen them with regards travelling to/from work in their Dublin schools.

votecounts

khalessi wrote: »

where rumour from?

all over the news and sarah mcinerney show.
nphet meeting at the moment and will issue advice later
from laois so hope it doesn't happen

Boggles

The ECDC document as they are the first to admit is based on the very limited data that is out there.

Schools going back is basically one huge experiment.

Personally if someone told me I could fly, I'd probably test it from the ground first and not a high building.

The role of children in COVID-19 transmission is yet be fully elucidated and there is a need to determine the extent
to which children are a) susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 virus across different age groups, and b) capable of
transmitting infection to others when asymptomatic or symptomatic.

I guess we will find out around Halloween.

combat14

it wont take till halloween to see results of govts school experiment - some schools in germany have already started to close after 2 days ..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1157805/

meeeeh

combat14 wrote: »

it wont take till halloween to see results of govts school experiment - some schools in germany have already started to close after 2 days ..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1157805/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/reopening-of-schools-in-many-eu-countries-has-not-led-to-covid-19-increase-ecde-report-finds-1.4324590

And this shows that there are not many increases due to reopening schools and child to child transmissions don't seem to be main cause of transmissions in children.

As for the link above it seems only one teacher tested positive and in other school it was a student which can happen but it's hardly the end of the world.

combat14

meeeeh wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/reopening-of-schools-in-many-eu-countries-has-not-led-to-covid-19-increase-ecde-report-finds-1.4324590

And this shows that there are not many increases due to reopening schools and child to child transmissions don't seem to be main cause of transmissions in children.

As for the link above it seems only one teacher tested positive and in other school it was a student which can happen but it's hardly the end of the world.

that's great news let's open everything up again so

wirelessdude01

meeeeh wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/reopening-of-schools-in-many-eu-countries-has-not-led-to-covid-19-increase-ecde-report-finds-1.4324590

And this shows that there are not many increases due to reopening schools and child to child transmissions don't seem to be main cause of transmissions in children.

As for the link above it seems only one teacher tested positive and in other school it was a student which can happen but it's hardly the end of the world.

The last paragraph stand out.

However, decisions on control measures in schools and school closures/openings should be consistent with decisions on other physical distancing and public health response measures within the community.

Are we being consistent in our great little country?

meeeeh

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The last paragraph stand out.

However, decisions on control measures in schools and school closures/openings should be consistent with decisions on other physical distancing and public health response measures within the community.

Are we being consistent in our great little country?

Right so it is totally different in Ireland, no experience from other countries applies because it's so much better to catastrophize that we will be all dead by Halloween.

Btw my old school with about 1000 pupils had a case. The class isolated, the rest finished school as normal without any issues. They were back fully in June when it happened.

wirelessdude01

meeeeh wrote: »

Right so it is totally different in Ireland, no experience from other countries applies because it's so much better to catastrophize that we will be all dead by Halloween.

Btw my old school with about 1000 pupils had a case. The class isolated, the rest finished school as normal without any issues. They were back fully in June when it happened.

My point is that they recommend that there is consistency in schools with what is occuring across the community. This as it stands won't be happening in Ireland. Why is that so hard for you to recognise and acknowledge? 2m social distancing out the window, masks indoors out the window.

Warbeastrior

What about staff members with diagnosed mental health disorders like generalised anxiety disorder and obsessive compulsive disorder that can relate to getting sick?

meeeeh

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The last paragraph stand out.

However, decisions on control measures in schools and school closures/openings should be consistent with decisions on other physical distancing and public health response measures within the community.

Are we being consistent in our great little country?

What does consistency mean though? Our social distancing measures at work are different to those in shops and so on.