Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Assetbacked

almostover wrote: »

EU countries like Spain? They opened up and re-locked down specific regions with outbreaks just like us.

They reopened far more than we have,including their green list. We haven't even reopened that much and lockdown 3 counties despite the restrictions having zero impact on the rise in cases (as the rise came from ignorant meat plant practices). The inconsistency of our authorities is baffling!

drunkmonkey

Thierry12 wrote: »

Saw a group of 70 years+ in my local gym yesterday having a great chat with no social distancing, stupid behaviour with a dangerous virus out there that can kill them

Your decision to hide behind the couch or enjoy what little time you've left. Let them do what they want. It's criminal what we've done to the older generations in this country. Kids have been downright nasty and bullying to their parents. My mum is 70+, doesn't give two hoots, still working every day, out for dinners with us, minds the Gran kids, she ripped into me for not bringing them down for 2 weeks during lockdown. She's making the best of her time while she's still healthy, I won't stop her, it's her life and her decision.

Thierry12

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Did you see any report giving the percentage chances of the young people infecting the older vulnerable ones, once it's running rampant among them? I'd say it's a big number.


Horrible attitude.

True, but they need to take personal responsibilty

A dangerous virus is out there that kills that group of people, they need to keep away from all people

Vaccine's will be here next year, they need to keep safe till then

Government have to support them of course, it's not gonna be easy.

Thierry12

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your decision to hide behind the couch or enjoy what little time you've left. Let them do what they want. It's criminal what we've done to the older generations in this country. Kids have been downright nasty and bullying to their parents. My mum is 70+, doesn't give two hoots, still working every day, out for dinners with us, minds the Gran kids, she ripped into me for not bringing them down for 2 weeks during lockdown. She's making the best of her time while she's still healthy, I won't stop her, it's her life and her decision.

I know it's awful

My parent's are old too

It's a horrible life to live, but they are the group that will overwhelm the hospital's

If we take them out of harm's way for a while, we can take on the virus

Vaccine's are coming, it might not be long to live like that

Assetbacked

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coronavirus-cabinet-discusses-increased-garda-powers-and-new-advice-for-over-70s-1.4333002?mode=amp

Fresh hypocrisy now emerging as news reports come out of perhaps focusing the narrative more on older people staying at home;

"Responding to reports that among the measures to be announced this afternoon is a requirement for older people to again restrict their time outside their home and avoid settings with lots of people, Trinity College Dublin geriatrician professor Rose Anne Kenny said she had concerns about moves to restrict the movement of older people.

Fresh air and movement were critical to boost the immune system and older people had more vulnerable immune systems, she said.

“It doesn’t make sense” to suggest that such people not be active, nor did selecting “a chronological number”.

“I don’t see how that will resolve things. There needs to be improved testing and tracing,” she told RTÉ radio’s Today with Sarah McInerney show."

She's dead right, but it doesn't just apply to increasing restrictions for older people but to all of society.

Also in the article;

"On the same programme immunologist Dr Tómas Ryan, associate professor of biochemistry in Trinity College Dublin, said the reality was that shielding does not work and said the Government was losing control of the Covid-19 situation."

So basically lockdown and harsh restrictions do not work and the focus needs to be on things like education of good hygiene, masks, social distancing, contact tracing and testing, being generally healthy by eating well, drinking water, not being fat and avoiding alcohol.

This common sense talk only comes out when the grey haired generation are asked to do more than the rest of us, but not when it's younger people. The hypocrisy of these gob****es in academia!

HeidiHeidi

Thierry12 wrote: »

True, but they need to take personal responsibilty

A dangerous virus is out there that kills that group of people, they need to keep away from all people

Vaccine's will be here next year, they need to keep safe till then

Government have to support them of course, it's not gonna be easy.

And what about the responsibility of the younger age cohorts (seeing as 80% of recent infections are in under-45s) to not let the virus run riot among them, to the point where it becomes an increasing risk to the older age groups?


It's not all a one-way street.

Thierry12

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

And what about the responsibility of the younger age cohorts (seeing as 80% of recent infections are in under-45s) to not let the virus run riot among them, to the point where it becomes an increasing risk to the older age groups?


It's not all a one-way street.

Honestly the young have done their time, been locked down for 6 months, no school, no summer, no fun, they've done great imo, have been very well behaved till recently

Think this is the time the old must step in and take over

drunkmonkey

Thierry12 wrote: »

If we take them out of harm's way for a while, we can take on the virus

Out of harms way is a nice way of putting it some kids have their parents under house arrest for 6mts and your hoping we mandate to do it to them all.
They could be dead any day of a multitude of illnesses, people need to get their heads around covid isn't the biggest risk to their parents. There old enough to have some sense and not put themselves in harms way. We have to stop the bullying of the older generation. Period.

Assetbacked

Thierry12 wrote: »

Honestly the young have done their time, been locked down for 6 months, no school, no summer, no fun, they've done great imo, have been very well behaved till recently

Think this is the time the old must step in and take over

It's not just about no fun but it is for the good of the economy. The working age group need to get back to normal as soon as possible or some of the ECB QE may not be enough and we will need to borrow money which will actually need to be repaid.

HeidiHeidi

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

And what about the responsibility of the younger age cohorts (seeing as 80% of recent infections are in under-45s) to not let the virus run riot among them, to the point where it becomes an increasing risk to the older age groups?


It's not all a one-way street.

The younger generation won’t die or even get that sick. Of course we won’t continue to stay indoors 5 months down the line.

The older generation may die if they are not in good health. So they should be careful.

They’ll need us to help keep the country going so they can get some kind of health care when they are even older.

John O.Groats

Thierry12 wrote: »

True, but they need to take personal responsibilty

A dangerous virus is out there that kills that group of people, they need to keep away from all people

Vaccine's will be here next year, they need to keep safe till then

Government have to support them of course, it's not gonna be easy.

I hope you are right but there is no evidence at present that there will be an effective vaccine available next year or any other time in the near future.

completedit

shipposter wrote: »

It's a sad day when older people will be required to regress into another lockdown just because the younger generations don't have any resilience, or self control to not have drinks poured into their mouths by some fella gyrating on a bar.

Is that not exactly what anyone vulnerable in the middle of a pandemic would be expected to do anyway? Staying out of harms way until it passes. What's wrong with personal responsibility?

HeidiHeidi

Thierry12 wrote: »

Honestly the young have done their time, been locked down for 6 months, no school, no summer, no fun, they've done great imo, have been very well behaved till recently

Think this is the time the old must step in and take over

Honestly, the older generation had a pretty rough time of it as well - locked in their houses for 2 months, deprived of the daily walks that keep the joints moving and bones from crumbling, terrified of walking anywhere crowded because most of the popuation seem to think it's all over and have no issues crowding them - and yes, I'm speaking from personal knowledge here.


I'm absolutely appalled by the "lock them up and write them off" attitude to the elderly that's showing throughout these threads :mad:


If the virus gets back to killing older and vulnerable people, it'll be because of the spread throughout the younger population.


Nobody gets off the hook on this one.

joseywhales

John O.Groats wrote: »

I hope you are right but there is no evidence at present that there will be an effective vaccine available next year or any other time in the near future.

It could be ten years, or it might never happen,we can't plan on the assumption of any timeframe for a vaccine.

Assetbacked

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Honestly, the older generation had a pretty rough time of it as well - locked in their houses for 2 months, deprived of the daily walks that keep the joints moving and bones from crumbling, terrified of walking anywhere crowded because most of the popuation seem to think it's all over and have no issues crowding them - and yes, I'm speaking from personal knowledge here.


I'm absolutely appalled by the "lock them up and write them off" attitude to the elderly that's showing throughout these threads :mad:


If the virus gets back to killing older and vulnerable people, it'll be because of the spread throughout the younger population.


Nobody gets off the hook on this one.

To use the arguments against young people for justifying focusing on the older people now;

"They can surely survive without going to mass or bingo and watching Netflix at home and listening to the radio for a few more weeks so we can get schools back and save lives" .

Birdie Num Num

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The younger generation won’t die or even get that sick. Of course we won’t continue to stay indoors 5 months down the line.

The older generation may die if they are not in good health. So they should be careful.

They’ll need us to help keep the country going so they can get some kind of health care when they are even older.

You’re full of hypocrisy. A few posts back you were talking about tackling the sources of infection now you’ve changed tact.

HeidiHeidi

Assetbacked wrote: »

To use the arguments against young people for justifying focusing on the older people now;

"They can surely survive without going to más sor bingo and watching Netflix at home and listening to the radio for a few more weeks so we can get schools back and save lives" .

Eh, they did all that already, for two months and more. Just like everyone else.

stargazer 68

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Honestly, the older generation had a pretty rough time of it as well - locked in their houses for 2 months, deprived of the daily walks that keep the joints moving and bones from crumbling, terrified of walking anywhere crowded because most of the popuation seem to think it's all over and have no issues crowding them - and yes, I'm speaking from personal knowledge here.


I'm absolutely appalled by the "lock them up and write them off" attitude to the elderly that's showing throughout these threads :mad:


If the virus gets back to killing older and vulnerable people, it'll be because of the spread throughout the younger population.


Nobody gets off the hook on this one.

I have to agree. Apart from that the nursing homes locked down with no visitors. There has been a visible improvement in the residents since visiting has been allowed again. Not to mention activities restarting - bingo and movies etc.

Assetbacked

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Eh, they did all that already, for two months. Just like everyone else.

So what's a few more weeks?

"The next 3 weeks are crucial".

Birdie Num Num

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

You’re full of hypocrisy. A few posts back you were talking about tackling the sources of infection now you’ve changed tact.

We do need to tackle the sources of the infection.
And older people should lay low.

No hypocrisy there.

AUDI20

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your decision to hide behind the couch or enjoy what little time you've left. Let them do what they want. It's criminal what we've done to the older generations in this country. Kids have been downright nasty and bullying to their parents. My mum is 70+, doesn't give two hoots, still working every day, out for dinners with us, minds the Gran kids, she ripped into me for not bringing them down for 2 weeks during lockdown. She's making the best of her time while she's still healthy, I won't stop her, it's her life and her decision.

100% with this post, thank god they are still sensible comments being made, some would like to see the over 70s confined to their homes with as little contact as possible with other people till a vacine might arrive. As a very active and healthy over 70 I certainly won't be locking myself away anytime soon.

Thierry12

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Out of harms way is a nice way of putting it some kids have their parents under house arrest for 6mts and your hoping we mandate to do it to them all.
They could be dead any day of a multitude of illnesses, people need to get their heads around covid isn't the biggest risk to their parents. There old enough to have some sense and not put themselves in harms way. We have to stop the bullying of the older generation. Period.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Out of harms way is a nice way of putting it some kids have their parents under house arrest for 6mts and your hoping we mandate to do it to them all.
They could be dead any day of a multitude of illnesses, people need to get their heads around covid isn't the biggest risk to their parents. There old enough to have some sense and not put themselves in harms way. We have to stop the bullying of the older generation. Period.

Your right on all that.

It's either stay out of harms way or face the prospect of getting very sick or dieing

We are practically 100% sure the vaccine's work at this stage and we can have them ready next year

I do hope the government bring in an elderly mandate, because like your parents, mine see no danger as well

My mother is pretty strong and healthy, but my father is not, for his own sake he should be told to cocoon for a while, would like him to see my kids have kids etc

HeidiHeidi

Assetbacked wrote: »

So what's a few more weeks?

"The next 3 weeks are crucial".

Tell that to the ones out partying, socialising, brunching and completely failing to social distance (God, how I HATE that phrase :mad:) at all, anywhere.

completedit

AUDI20 wrote: »

100% with this post, thank god they are still sensible comments being made, some would like to see the over 70s confined to their homes with as little contact as possible with other people till a vacine might arrive. As a very active and healthy over 70 I certainly won't be locking myself away anytime soon.

Let the family make the decision on what to do? Let the old person decide when and if they should see their loved ones, depending on where they've been, who they've been in contact with. It's a pandemic and they're the most vulnerable. What can we do other than tell them to avoid areas where people with a potentially fatal disease might be.

lee_baby_simms

Assetbacked wrote: »

"On the same programme immunologist Dr Tómas Ryan, associate professor of biochemistry in Trinity College Dublin, said the reality was that shielding does not work and said the Government was losing control of the Covid-19 situation."

I heard this academic pundit on Eamon Dunphys podcast yesterday and I was appalled at some of the fear mongering, weak science and emotional manipulation he tried to pull.

He claimed that one of the "known knowns" is that the infection fatality rate of Covid19 is 1%. Now that is pure conjecture. That figure is as of now speculative and we may never know the real number.

So then he rolls in another highly speculative figure, 0.03% death rate for children from Covid. Again, not a reliable estimate given how schools shut so early across Europe.

Next he assumes that only 5% of the country has been exposed to the virus based solely on antibody testing, not accurate, and assumes that herd immunity requires 65% infection, ignoring all the strong hypotheses we have around cross immunity from t-cell response and previous coronaviruses and comes up with a figure of 111 dead children.

So he says 111 children will need to die if we go down the road of herd immunity and then he invokes the troubles and asks how many children died during the troubles?

Really disgraceful extrapolation using very questionable science and really going out of his way to emotionally manipulate the listener.

Of course Dunphy swallowed the whole lot, the craven bastard that he is.

John O.Groats

Thierry12 wrote: »

Honestly the young have done their time, been locked down for 6 months, no school, no summer, no fun, they've done great imo, have been very well behaved till recently

Think this is the time the old must step in and take over

As has been stated on this forum many times many kids/young people/call them whatever you want have been out and about all year mostly ignoring the restrictions, congregating together having fun so no they have not done their time. By and large the older age groups are the ones who have sensibly followed the advice all along and may now have to pay the price for the selfish behaviour of others.

Assetbacked

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Tell that to the ones out partying, socialising, brunching and completely failing to social distance (God, how I HATE that phrase :mad:) at all, anywhere.

But that last part applies to pretty much everyone in Ireland at this point. I don't see anyone not fully adhering to social distancing anymore, anywhere. We had protests, high profile funerals, supermarkets with only queues outside and a free for all inside, people embracing each other not from the same household.

The reality is that further restrictions are not an option. Guidance and education for hygiene, health, social distancing, masks etc combined with testing and tracing, ensuring hospitals can deal with surges if needs be are the only way forward. Waiting for a vaccine is waiting for Godot.

HeidiHeidi

completedit wrote: »

Let the family make the decision on what to do? Let the old person decide when and if they should see their loved ones, depending on where they've been, who they've been in contact with. It's a pandemic and they're the most vulnerable. What can we do other than tell them to avoid areas where people with a potentially fatal disease might be.

Because if the younger end of the population gets to live life as before with no restrictions whatsoever - which seems to be the majority wish here - then "the areas where people with a potentially fatal disease might be" quickly turns into everywhere.


Can you seriously not see the need for EVERYONE to restrict their movements and social contacts in order to break the chain of infection?


It's can't all be put on the elderly and vulnerable to stay out of harms way, it's on everyone to reduce the spread of harm.

completedit

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Because if the younger end of the population gets to live life as before with no restrictions whatsoever - which seems to be the majority wish here - then "the areas where people with a potentially fatal disease might be" quickly turns into everywhere.


Can you seriously not see the need for EVERYONE to restrict their movements and social contacts in order to break the chain of infection?


It's can't all be put on the elderly and vulnerable to stay out of harms way, it's on everyone to reduce the spread of harm.

I don't see infection as being a significant problem. The death ratio has plummeted across Europe. Look at the UK, death have dwindled, all the while there has been no adherence to social distancing. People die all the time. Death is inevitable. Covid is just another way.

Birdie Num Num

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We do need to tackle the sources of the infection.
And older people should lay low.

No hypocrisy there.

They have been staying low. The over 70s have had greater restrictions than any other age group. You’re asking for the closer of meat factories. Why close buildings on one basis and have a complete 360 opinion on demographics when under 45s are the main source of infection? No hypocrisy there?