Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Charles Babbage

Jackman25 wrote: »

They cant even howl at it for fear of spreading the Covid.

Traditional places for howling at the moon like the middle of the dark forest or the tops of mountains, should be fairly safe.

boetstark

boetstark wrote: »

I can see the lunacy in posters suggesting to lock the country indefinitely, what happens when we open up , cases will increase again.
However your post is absolutely a crazy wind up or you are incredibly thick.
It is NOT a mild flu. It is killing mostly older people but it is a lottery when it comes to younger people.

It is extremely mild. Remember Leo Varadkar saying 250000 Irish could die? Maybe he meant if Covid is still here 100 or so years from now.

We don’t even have 2000 deaths. And that’s a figure that we have admitted is way overstated. And we all know that most deaths had extreme underlying issues.

Excess deaths for 2020 will likely show a few hundred deaths Max.

The most common symptom of Covid is perfect health or a few sniffles.

I’m not saying that to wind people up. It’s factual information. Backed up by all the data for anybody interested in looking. Most of the deaths are over 80 and in extremely poor health.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The most common symptom of Covid is perfect health or a few sniffles.

I’m not saying that to wind people up. It’s factual information.

Except 'sniffles' isn't a common symptom. Factually.

facehugger99

Penfailed wrote: »

Except 'sniffles' isn't a common symptom. Factually.

The most common symptoms include feeling 'grand' and 'completely normal'.

_Kaiser_

Jim O'Callaghan making a lot of sense in this article

https://www.thejournal.ie/jim-ocallaghan-theres-a-danger-in-a-political-system-that-blindly-follows-everything-nphet-says-5220162-Oct2020

“What I see other countries doing – Belgium is the most recent example – is that they are no longer using case numbers to make their decisions on restrictions and on policy.

“They are looking at hospitalisations, ICU capacity and deaths. It is a job for us as politicians to say to the public health people that maybe we should be focusing on that.

“The objective was to make sure our health service did not get overwhelmed, not to lock down the country and the economy until there was no Covid at all. That is not realistic.”

Which is exactly what I and many others have been saying here for months now

Yeah, I think we need to recognise why we went into lockdown because we’ve forgotten that.

“We saw the scenes in Northern Italy, and they terrified people, and it would have been appalling if people got this disease, about which we knew very little, came into hospital and they couldn’t get treatment. That would have been an appalling indictment on any country.

“And so we made the right decision to go into lockdown in order to flatten the curve. And we succeeded in that. I think if you look back at 15 April, there was 155 people in intensive care. In mid April, there was 881 people in hospital. We flattened the curve.”

Again, nothing that many here haven't been saying since mid-June but it's refreshing to see it acknowledged by someone who could be a future leader of FF

O’Callaghan says the narrative has changed over recent weeks and months.

“People and now eminent commentators in this are saying we need to crush the curve into the ground. Where did that come from? We’re not going to be able to do that, in my opinion, we’re not going to be able to crush the curve into the ground.”

Making the tough decisions in government during a pandemic is not easy, O’Callaghan acknowledges.

The Fianna Fáil TD was speaking before the National Public Health Emergency Team, (NPHET) referenced the increase in hospitalisations, raising concerns around the indicators of disease severity.

The NPHET are doing the job they were established to do, said O’Callaghan, adding that politicians shouldn’t face a backlash when they decide against NPHET advice.

There shouldn’t be criticisms of government if it doesn’t “slavishly follow public health advice”.

If this is kite flying for a change in policy making then I'm all for it. If Jim is sincere here and not just playing to the changing mood of the population (although even if he is, he's still more in touch with it than Martin and Glynn) then it's a sign of a major shift in Government thinking and a very welcome (if long overdue) one.

O'Callaghan has gone up a few points either way in my view.

dalyboy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Jim O'Callaghan making a lot of sense in this article

https://www.thejournal.ie/jim-ocallaghan-theres-a-danger-in-a-political-system-that-blindly-follows-everything-nphet-says-5220162-Oct2020



Which is exactly what I and many others have been saying here for months now



Again, nothing that many here haven't been saying since mid-June but it's refreshing to see it acknowledged by someone who could be a future leader of FF



If this is kite flying for a change in policy making then I'm all for it. If Jim is sincere here and not just playing to the changing mood of the population (although even if he is, he's still more in touch with it than Martin and Glynn) then it's a sign of a major shift in Government thinking and a very welcome (if long overdue) one.

O'Callaghan has gone up a few points either way in my view.

Yip. Either way the seeds of sense are sprouting from the political end. Now we need more medical backup. It’d be great if this man had a bit more support from his colleagues.
Great article and a pure hero
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/i-lost-my-job-for-speaking-out-but-i-have-no-regrets-39585808.html

3xh

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Jim O'Callaghan making a lot of sense in this article

https://www.thejournal.ie/jim-ocallaghan-theres-a-danger-in-a-political-system-that-blindly-follows-everything-nphet-says-5220162-Oct2020



Which is exactly what I and many others have been saying here for months now



Again, nothing that many here haven't been saying since mid-June but it's refreshing to see it acknowledged by someone who could be a future leader of FF



If this is kite flying for a change in policy making then I'm all for it. If Jim is sincere here and not just playing to the changing mood of the population (although even if he is, he's still more in touch with it than Martin and Glynn) then it's a sign of a major shift in Government thinking and a very welcome (if long overdue) one.

O'Callaghan has gone up a few points either way in my view.

100% kite flying. But if the end result is as hoped and needed, let him have his moment in the spotlight. His sister might change her tune too if RTÉ tell her to.

Very dangerous to have articles like that at a time where things are snowballing. Just encouraging anti-maskers, herd immunity lunatics at a time when it’s really pushing the importance of suppressing this virus.

We need to get on top of this fast, numbers are out of control. We need to aim for zero covid, it’s the only show in town imo if we want to get back to something near normal, open up and get people back work etc.

_Kaiser_

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Very dangerous to have articles like that at a time where things are snowballing. Just encouraging anti-maskers, herd immunity lunatics at a time when it’s really pushing the importance of suppressing this virus.

We need to get on top of this fast, numbers are out of control. We need to aim for zero covid, it’s the only show in town imo if we want to get back to something near normal, open up and get people back work etc.

This will be my last response to you. There's no point in debating with someone who can only deal in soundbites

It's been repeatedly demonstrated to you (by me and others here) why "zero Covid" is not only unachievable and unrealistic, and it's clear that you have no idea as to how you'd implement that approach anyway as I've challenged you a few times on it (latest being only yesterday) and no response from you.

Once again, new case numbers are largely irrelevant vs the outcome of those cases - now being acknowledged publicly by O'Callaghan (who I doubt is going off without approval with his comments given the backlash over the mixed-messaging in recent times) and even Varadkar (who is more likely to say what he think will serve him best personally but on this one he's right).

I have also said before that if you are sincere as you claim in your views that you probably should step back and bit from the whole issue and do something else as this level of obsession and fear isn't healthy for anyone.

bucketybuck

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I have also said before that if you are sincere as you claim in your views

Come on. Dropping in every day to make the same provocative soundbite, he knows full well what he is doing.

Micky 32

Penfailed wrote: »

Except 'sniffles' isn't a common symptom. Factually.

Yeah that is actually correct and “factually “. Some people don’t even get them. No symptoms can be quite a common symptom.

bucketybuck

3xh wrote: »

100% kite flying. But if the end result is as hoped and needed, let him have his moment in the spotlight.

I said it before, the end result in all of this isn't actually in doubt as far as I am concerned, the only question is when those in charge realise it and then accept it.

Zero covid is a pipe dream for imbeciles, the worlds fastest vaccine is a carrot on a stick for donkeys. Eventually it will become obvious to all that the only way forward is to find equilibrium with the virus, to make some hard decisions and start to develop a society that co-exists with covid and all its implications.

The nations that do that will get a head start, my guess was that it would be next year before Ireland copped on and stopped fighting the tide, but I would welcome any signs that they could come to this realisation sooner.

weldoninhio

boetstark wrote: »

I can see the lunacy in posters suggesting to lock the country indefinitely, what happens when we open up , cases will increase again.
However your post is absolutely a crazy wind up or you are incredibly thick.
It is NOT a mild flu. It is killing mostly older people but it is a lottery when it comes to younger people.

Morgan Freeman Narration: It wasn’t a lottery when it came to young people.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's been repeatedly demonstrated to you (by me and others here) why "zero Covid" is not only unachievable and unrealistic, and it's clear that you have no idea as to how you'd implement that approach anyway as I've challenged you a few times on it (latest being only yesterday) and no response from you.
.

I’ve outlined my approach multiple times on over the past few months.

Lockdown the country hard, at the very least as hard as the march lockdown.

Close all ports and airports to anything but the most essential of travel (incoming food in and out etc). Anyone who does enter the county must be isolated and tested and only released after a negative test.

When we get cases in the county zero for a period of time then we can start to open and target operating as normal within the country. But airports and ports continue to operate as above. If we totally suppress the virus in the country then the only way it increases again is by importing it.

Also before the north gets mentioned. 24/7 permanent army and gardai checkPoints on all main route and rolling checkpoints on secondary routes.

These are obviously very serious measures, drastic even but it would get us back to somewhat normal faster and minimise the numbers who get sick or die from the virus.

NZ have clearly shown the strategy works too so it’s not like we are going into the total unknown.

It wouldn’t be unrealistic to say we could be drinking restriction free pints by Christmas, early January at the latest with no worries at all of spreading the virus or getting sick if we follow the above strategy.

FintanMcluskey

facehugger99 wrote: »

The most common symptoms include feeling 'grand' and 'completely normal'.

Out of 87 positive tests in one of the meat plants in the midlands, the only symptom 84 of them had was complete bewilderment

bloopy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Out of 87 positive tests in one of the meat plants in the midlands, the only symptom 84 of them had was complete bewilderment

What is the asymptomatic rate for the current testing?
In March and April when we were getting the big numbers, we were only testing people who had symptoms. How many asymptomatic people were not caught during that testing phase?
Are we just attempting to close the stable door when the horse has already bolted six months ago?

Charles Babbage

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This will be my last response to you. There's no point in debating with someone who can only deal in soundbites

It's been repeatedly demonstrated to you (by me and others here) why "zero Covid" is not only unachievable and unrealistic, and it's clear that you have no idea as to how you'd implement that approach anyway as I've challenged you a few times on it (latest being only yesterday) and no response from you.

Once again, new case numbers are largely irrelevant vs the outcome of those cases - now being acknowledged publicly by O'Callaghan (who I doubt is going off without approval with his comments given the backlash over the mixed-messaging in recent times) and even Varadkar (who is more likely to say what he think will serve him best personally but on this one he's right).

I have also said before that if you are sincere as you claim in your views that you probably should step back and bit from the whole issue and do something else as this level of obsession and fear isn't healthy for anyone.

They have feck all Covid in China, your arguments that zero Covid is impossible must not have been translated into Chinese.

LessOutragePlz

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

I’ve outlined my approach multiple times on over the past few months.

Lockdown the country hard, at the very least as hard as the march lockdown.

Close all ports and airports to anything but the most essential of travel (incoming food in and out etc). Anyone who does enter the county must be isolated and tested and only released after a negative test.

When we get cases in the county zero for a period of time then we can start to open and target operating as normal within the country. But airports and ports continue to operate as above. If we totally suppress the virus in the country then the only way it increases again is by importing it.

Also before the north gets mentioned. 24/7 permanent army and gardai checkPoints on all main route and rolling checkpoints on secondary routes.

These are obviously very serious measures, drastic even but it would get us back to somewhat normal faster and minimise the numbers who get sick or die from the virus.

NZ have clearly shown the strategy works too so it’s not like we are going into the total unknown.

It wouldn’t be unrealistic to say we could be drinking restriction free pints by Christmas, early January at the latest with no worries at all of spreading the virus or getting sick if we follow the above strategy.

You can't be serious 24/7 armed checkpoints at the border with the north. Yeah the IRA and other paramilitaries would love that.

You are yet again showing your shortsightedness and not thinking about the consequences and knock on effects of the batsh1t crazy measures that you are suggesting but, you already know this. It's the only reason you keep posting in this thread to bait people into responding to your complete hysteria and hyperbole.

I know how ironic it is me saying that while I've taken your bait and responded with this post but like the previous poster said this will be my last time responding to you and hopefully others will do the same and you'll eventually crawl back under the bridge that you came from.

RoryMac

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

I’ve outlined my approach multiple times on over the past few months.

Lockdown the country hard, at the very least as hard as the march lockdown.

Close all ports and airports to anything but the most essential of travel (incoming food in and out etc). Anyone who does enter the county must be isolated and tested and only released after a negative test.

When we get cases in the county zero for a period of time then we can start to open and target operating as normal within the country. But airports and ports continue to operate as above. If we totally suppress the virus in the country then the only way it increases again is by importing it.

Also before the north gets mentioned. 24/7 permanent army and gardai checkPoints on all main route and rolling checkpoints on secondary routes.

These are obviously very serious measures, drastic even but it would get us back to somewhat normal faster and minimise the numbers who get sick or die from the virus.

NZ have clearly shown the strategy works too so it’s not like we are going into the total unknown.

It wouldn’t be unrealistic to say we could be drinking restriction free pints by Christmas, early January at the latest with no worries at all of spreading the virus or getting sick if we follow the above strategy.

Do you think this approach would have widespread public support?

boetstark

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is extremely mild. Remember Leo Varadkar saying 250000 Irish could die? Maybe he meant if Covid is still here 100 or so years from now.

We don’t even have 2000 deaths. And that’s a figure that we have admitted is way overstated. And we all know that most deaths had extreme underlying issues.

Excess deaths for 2020 will likely show a few hundred deaths Max.

The most common symptom of Covid is perfect health or a few sniffles.

I’m not saying that to wind people up. It’s factual information. Backed up by all the data for anybody interested in looking. Most of the deaths are over 80 and in extremely poor health.

If stupidity and ignorance were commodities Ireland definitely would have a trade surplus.

Plumbthedepths

Charles Babbage wrote: »

They have feck all Covid in China, your arguments that zero Covid is impossible must not have been translated into Chinese.

Those Chinese lads are completely honest aswell.

Charles Babbage

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This will be my last response to you. There's no point in debating with someone who can only deal in soundbites

It's been repeatedly demonstrated to you (by me and others here) why "zero Covid" is not only unachievable and unrealistic, and it's clear that you have no idea as to how you'd implement that approach anyway as I've challenged you a few times on it (latest being only yesterday) and no response from you.

Once again, new case numbers are largely irrelevant vs the outcome of those cases - now being acknowledged publicly by O'Callaghan (who I doubt is going off without approval with his comments given the backlash over the mixed-messaging in recent times) and even Varadkar (who is more likely to say what he think will serve him best personally but on this one he's right).

I have also said before that if you are sincere as you claim in your views that you probably should step back and bit from the whole issue and do something else as this level of obsession and fear isn't healthy for anyone.

They have feck all Covid in China, your arguments about why this Is impossible must not have been translated into Chinese

FintanMcluskey

bucketybuck wrote: »

I said it before, the end result in all of this isn't actually in doubt as far as I am concerned, the only question is when those in charge realise it and then accept it.

Zero covid is a pipe dream for imbeciles, the worlds fastest vaccine is a carrot on a stick for donkeys. Eventually it will become obvious to all that the only way forward is to find equilibrium with the virus, to make some hard decisions and start to develop a society that co-exists with covid and all its implications.

The nations that do that will get a head start, my guess was that it would be next year before Ireland copped on and stopped fighting the tide, but I would welcome any signs that they could come to this realisation sooner.

Seen an opinion poll that said 1/3 of irish people won't take a vaccine.

Thankfully 1 in 3 Irish adults can perform a risk analysis of their own health

Our own government/NPHET have made it very clear what the plan is. 9 more months of yo yoing between lockdown and various levels of restrictions while we pray for a vaccine.

We are going to continue with this approach until a vaccine arrives or the economy gets so bad that we have to move forward.

To be honest, I think it could be the latter.

We have made no effort to increase hospital/ICU capacity since this started and we refuse to discuss any other alternative approaches.

Our whole approach is based on number of cases, regardless of how few are actually sick.

hynesie08

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

I’ve outlined my approach multiple times on over the past few months.

Lockdown the country hard, at the very least as hard as the march lockdown.

Close all ports and airports to anything but the most essential of travel (incoming food in and out etc). Anyone who does enter the county must be isolated and tested and only released after a negative test.

When we get cases in the county zero for a period of time then we can start to open and target operating as normal within the country. But airports and ports continue to operate as above. If we totally suppress the virus in the country then the only way it increases again is by importing it.

Also before the north gets mentioned. 24/7 permanent army and gardai checkPoints on all main route and rolling checkpoints on secondary routes.

These are obviously very serious measures, drastic even but it would get us back to somewhat normal faster and minimise the numbers who get sick or die from the virus.

NZ have clearly shown the strategy works too so it’s not like we are going into the total unknown.

It wouldn’t be unrealistic to say we could be drinking restriction free pints by Christmas, early January at the latest with no worries at all of spreading the virus or getting sick if we follow the above strategy.

Ignoring the rest of your claptrap that would leave probably half a million people unemployed or bankrupt.

Do you not think there's a certain group of people who may have an issue with this method? There'd be more dead than covid in a month......

You really are delusional nox nox noxing on heavens door.....

ShyMets

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

You can't be serious 24/7 armed checkpoints at the border with the north. Yeah the IRA and other paramilitaries would love that.

You are yet again showing your shortsightedness and not thinking about the consequences and knock on effects of the batsh1t crazy measures that you are suggesting but, you already know this. It's the only reason you keep posting in this thread to bait people into responding to your complete hysteria and hyperbole.

I know how ironic it is me saying that while I've taken your bait and responded with this post but like the previous poster said this will be my last time responding to you and hopefully others will do the same and you'll eventually crawl back under the bridge that you came from.

The poster is a Troll. By responding you just give them oxygen. Best to ignore

ShyMets

hynesie08 wrote: »

Ignoring the rest of your claptrap that would leave probably half a million people unemployed or bankrupt.

Do you not think there's a certain group of people who may have an issue with this method? There'd be more dead than covid in a month......

You really are delusional nox nox noxing on heavens door.....

The poster is troll. Best ignored. Responding only gives them oxygen

PTH2009

Reckon we will get a new level plan with it been even more restrictive then the one now

Economic sake we need to live with this virus

Imagine having to go into national lockdown part 2 and redo all the claps and that for health workers

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Seen an opinion poll that said 1/3 of irish people won't take a vaccine.

Thankfully 1 in 3 Irish adults can perform a risk analysis of their own health

Or 1/3 of those polled are anti-vax scum.

Tenzor07

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

• Lockdown the country hard.
• Close all ports and airports.
• permanent army and gardai checkPoints on all main route and rolling checkpoints on secondary routes.

Noxxy knows none of this is realistic or will work so no point debating them with rational realistic points, waste of time.
What it's really about for those like him is keeping Irish borders closed to foreigners, non-Irish out and a halt to all legal immigration currently in progress leaving thousands in limbo like in the DP centres..