Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

mohawk

average_runner wrote: »

Is it zero deaths because we blocked off the elderly from the real world?
Is it zero deaths because I can't take a parent out of a nursing home to see her grand children?

Is the zero deaths because elderly can't mind their grand children after school when they want to?

Do we just continue to imprison the vulnerable people and not help them at all?

My son is no longer going to grandparents after school and he is missing it terribly. But, it’s a necessary evil to reduce the visits from full afternoon’s to popping into see them.

In order to protect the elderly either A every single person must live under tight restrictions or B the vulnerable must protect themselves by limiting their interactions outside their home and reducing their visitors. We are only 6 months into this and it’s a minimum of another 6 months of restrictions ahead of us. The longer it goes on the less adherence there will be to the restrictions therefore the vulnerable must take extra precautions over and above the rest of the population.

In our family the grandparents are delighted the children are back at school and their hobbies. They miss the regular company of grandchildren dearly but feel that it’s up to them to be careful. We are very careful when we visit and don’t stay too long.

What is the alternative for older people? No matter what they have to cut contact with others to protect themselves.

CalamariFritti

polesheep wrote: »

On the contrary, you would have to be a damaged person to have seen lockdown as a positive time.

Looking at this person's post history this is already after happening.

Plumbthedepths

ShyMets wrote: »

Personally I think they're Trolling

No matter the topic that poster always takes the most extreme contarian position. Anyone suggesting it's ok to drink alcohol while driving is a WUM imo.

boggerman1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You absolutely should take a break from the news. You're gonna develop an underlying condition.

Take a break from it.2weeks should do as recommended by nphet.

dalyboy

polesheep wrote: »

Address Covid differently.

Agreed. What they need to do now is rip up that abomination of a “living with covid” 5 step plan.

They need to start again and this time create a LIVING WITH COVID PLAN.

Stop these juvenile knee jerk actions like laughably closing pubs (a controlled environment which closure ipso facto leads to uncontrolled house parties and kills the industry and jobs related)

Open up stadiums to 20-30% capacity and get our sports / culture / zest back to standard.

Create safe and practical solutions to the arts/music industry by limiting crowds and having safe people volumes attend.

Get that 15 minute test (the one being piloted in Roscommon) operational ASAP . Get millions of kits sourced and delivered and testing with NO excuses.

Fix our travel industry yesterday.
Have a fair system in place that allows travellers leave (weather essential or otherwise) and return and ensure the solution is non discriminatory to all citizens weather in private or public employment.

It’s this or we continue this headless chicken dance for years along with constant protests , constant blame culture , ruined industries left right and center , massive unemployment, huge mental health damage , further delayed health screenings and a depressed society.

polesheep

MrMusician18 wrote: »

My wife suffered from a serious illness (not covid) in April. She was seen to by her GP over the phone initially, then a physical consultation, then a hospital appointment. I wasn't allowed to attend with her though.

But to say healthcare wasn't available is not correct. It was available and back open by early April (I don't think it ever stopped).

Screening is for the "well" in that those that are screened would generally consider themselves not suffering from x disease and not presenting symptoms. This differs from testing for those that are suffering symptoms.

To my knowledge, only screening programmes were halted.

You still don't seem to understand the purpose of screening. Although not presenting symptoms, some of the 'well' as you describe them could be developing a potentially terminal illness that might be averted through screening. It's great that your wife got to see a doctor and received treatment, others did not.

polesheep

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Go on, outline your policy. I'm all ears.

I'm sure the HSE would like your expertise too, so don't keep all these great ideas to yourself.

I could make suggestions but you would reject them... rightly or wrongly. But the question is, why do you look to me for suggestions? Don't you think that those in authority should be questioning whether they are using the correct strategy? Shouldn't they be trying to see if there is a better way? Why won't they listen to alternative medical/scientific opinion?

paw patrol

haven't posted in a while as I was just rehashing my arguments continually and others did a good job of debating the numbers.

But today I am concerned that with all the Phd's, professorships and super brains in NPHET that after 7 months of "lockdown" and no real success the best they can come up with is "rolling lockdown" i.e more of the same failed policies.

For a panel of (allegedly) better brains that the proles of boards that's a shocking indictment.
Odd the people from the slow paced world of academia aren't cut out for the cut and thrust of major real-time decisions. Who'd have thought it?

It's almost like the years spend in the ivory towers sucked up to and worshiped by more junior Phds and wannabe PhD students where their word is law and their mistakes are unaccountable for, makes them unsuitable to rule.

Sadly what was confined to the halls of Trinity College is being forced on us all.


https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/rolling-lockdowns-a-way-of-life-for-up-to-nine-months-as-more-counties-suffer-rise-in-covid-19-cases-39571393.html

Dr Glynn said: "If you are asking, do we go back to normal after this, no we won't. We will have to continue to suppress this. "I don't believe there is an alternative strategy as things stand. Things can change. There is unbelievable work going on in terms of treatments, vaccines and different types of tests. But we are not quite there yet.
"I hope news of that will evolve between now and Christmas but ­ultimately I think we are looking at a six- to nine-month timeframe here."

MrMusician18

paw patrol wrote: »

haven't posted in a while as I was just rehashing my arguments continually and others did a good job of debating the numbers.

But today I am concerned that with all the Phd's, professorships and super brains in NPHET that after 7 months of "lockdown" and no real success the best they can come up with is "rolling lockdown" i.e more of the same failed policies.

For a panel of (allegedly) better brains that the proles of boards that's a shocking indictment.
Odd the people from the slow paced world of academia aren't cut out for the cut and thrust of major real-time decisions. Who'd have thought it?

It's almost like the years spend in the ivory towers sucked up to and worshiped by more junior Phds and wannabe PhD students where their word is law and their mistakes are unaccountable for, makes them unsuitable to rule.

Sadly what was confined to the halls of Trinity College is being forced on us all.


https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/rolling-lockdowns-a-way-of-life-for-up-to-nine-months-as-more-counties-suffer-rise-in-covid-19-cases-39571393.html

Go on then enlighten the rest of us with your plan.

Because for all the whinging, cribbing and moaning from you and your fellow flag carriers, I have yet to see even the broadest outline of a plan from you or your ilk that addresses how to effectively suppress the virus, or control the damage it will cause.

In fact, all I've seen is denial.

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

haven't posted in a while as I was just rehashing my arguments continually and others did a good job of debating the numbers.

But today I am concerned that with all the Phd's, professorships and super brains in NPHET that after 7 months of "lockdown" and no real success the best they can come up with is "rolling lockdown" i.e more of the same failed policies.

For a panel of (allegedly) better brains that the proles of boards that's a shocking indictment.
Odd the people from the slow paced world of academia aren't cut out for the cut and thrust of major real-time decisions. Who'd have thought it?

It's almost like the years spend in the ivory towers sucked up to and worshiped by more junior Phds and wannabe PhD students where their word is law and their mistakes are unaccountable for, makes them unsuitable to rule.

Sadly what was confined to the halls of Trinity College is being forced on us all.


https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/rolling-lockdowns-a-way-of-life-for-up-to-nine-months-as-more-counties-suffer-rise-in-covid-19-cases-39571393.html

When the anti-restrictions crew have been reduced to this sort of nonsense its pretty clear they haven't a clue. What a backward, clueless view of those in academia or with Phds etc.

hynesie08

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

When the anti-restrictions crew have been reduced to this sort of nonsense its pretty clear they haven't a clue. What a backward, clueless view of those in academia or with Phds etc.

You claim to have a PhD nox, and your suggestion is forced vaccinations and the army shooting students...... Those letters aren't as powerful as you think......

uli84

I have to say that the definition of “living” by those creating those plans is rather odd. It should be called “dying with Covid” or at best “vegetating with Covid”

paw patrol

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Go on then enlighten the rest of us with your plan.

Because for all the whinging, cribbing and moaning from you and your fellow flag carriers, I have yet to see even the broadest outline of a plan from you or your ilk that addresses how to effectively suppress the virus, or control the damage it will cause.

In fact, all I've seen is denial.

I've outlined my thoughts many times on this thread. I'm not rehashing.
Dalyboy above hits it reasonably well we'd differ on minor things.
I'd open nearly everything

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

When the anti-restrictions crew have been reduced to this sort of nonsense its pretty clear they haven't a clue. What a backward, clueless view of those in academia or with Phds etc.

Actually one of my best mates is PhD in science left academia (main Irish uni) for private sector pharma after a decade. I know all his stories.
I reckon I know more than you.

hynesie08

hynesie08 wrote: »

You claim to have a PhD nox, and your suggestion is forced vaccinations and the army shooting students...... Those letters aren't as powerful as you think......

I wish you good luck in finding a post where I suggested shooting students or anything remotely similar even.

paw patrol wrote: »

Actually one of my best mates is PhD in science left academia (main Irish uni) for private sector pharma after a decade. I know all his stories.
I reckon I know more than you.

I doubt it very much

CalamariFritti

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Go on then enlighten the rest of us with your plan.

Because for all the whinging, cribbing and moaning from you and your fellow flag carriers, I have yet to see even the broadest outline of a plan from you or your ilk that addresses how to effectively suppress the virus, or control the damage it will cause.

In fact, all I've seen is denial.

We can't wait for a vaccine that may or may not arrive and may or may not do what we hope it will do. We need a plan B.

Plan B is to let nature take its course.
a) Protect the high risk groups or help them protect themselves. b) Watch the hospital & ICU numbers so that nobody dies because of a service shortage.
Within those two constraints let as many people as possible get infected.

Edit: I think thats effectively what we're doing already. All this fear mongering and case number panicking is just theatre to a degree. To keep some sort of solidarity in the population alive so that we won't lose control with regards to (b).

MrMusician18

paw patrol wrote: »

I've outlined my thoughts many times on this thread. I'm not rehashing.
Dalyboy above hits it reasonably well we'd differ on minor things.
I'd open nearly everything







Actually one of my best mates is PhD in science left academia (main Irish uni) for private sector pharma after a decade. I know all his stories.
I reckon I know more than you.

Oh that plan, the one with the idea on how to fix the travel industry is "fix the travel industry'.

It's great, well thought out stuff.

Assetbacked

https://www.thejournal.ie/galway-crowds-5217408-Sep2020/

"NUIG condemns 'deplorable' scenes of large crowds gathered in Galway city". They'll have to get in line behind the May and June bank holiday reckless celebrations in parks and gardens as I'm still waiting for the increase in deaths from those weekends to show up in numbers.

I have a suspicion that the reason they are so keen to keep cases close to zero is because with every increase in cases, there is concrete data showing how less harmful covid is than when it first emerged earlier this year. 790 cases the last 2 days and 0 deaths just makes the death rate go even closer to 0.


https://www.thejournal.ie/pup-applications-rise-level-3-restrictions-dublin-5217219-Sep2020/

"Level 3 restrictions on Dublin prompts surge in applications for Pandemic Unemployment Payment"

Good to see the significant majority of likes for comments under the article which outline how unsustainable it is to impose heavy restrictions on certain sectors but not underwrite the wages and livelihoods within those sectors. The whole OTT reaction to covid is such a pointless and needless destruction to the economy, it is tragic for those significantly impacted.

Jackman25

hynesie08 wrote: »

You claim to have a PhD nox, and your suggestion is forced vaccinations and the army shooting students...... Those letters aren't as powerful as you think......

Scary stuff in the unlikely event that it was true.

CalamariFritti

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Within those two constraints let as many people as possible get infected.

An idiotic policy, can't believe there are people still suggesting this.

I don't want covid, I don't know anyone else who wants it either. Maybe you do but it's bizarre if you do. We need to stop the virus spread, minimise the number of people getting this potentially deadly virus with unknown long term consequences even for those who are not very sick with the virus itself.

Honestly, "let it spread" what is going on in people's heads.

CalamariFritti

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

An idiotic policy, can't believe there are still suggesting this.

I dont want covid, I dont know anyone else who wants it either. Maybe you do but its bizarre if you do. We need to stop the virus spread, minimise the number of people getting this potentially deadly virus with unknown long term consequences even for those who are not very sick with the virus itself.

Honestly, "let it spread" what is going on in people's heads.

Once it was clear that this was indeed not the flesh eating zombie virus but something maybe twice as dangerous as the flu it was always the only option available. We'll all come around to this eventually.

Grant Billions Bifocals

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

An idiotic policy, can't believe there are people still suggesting this.

I don't want covid, I don't know anyone else who wants it either. Maybe you do but it's bizarre if you do. We need to stop the virus spread, minimise the number of people getting this potentially deadly virus with unknown long term consequences even for those who are not very sick with the virus itself.

Honestly, "let it spread" what is going on in people's heads.

surely you can tell us what's going on in our heads their Rorschach.

paw patrol

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Go on then enlighten the rest of us with your plan.

Because for all the whinging, cribbing and moaning from you and your fellow flag carriers, I have yet to see even the broadest outline of a plan from you or your ilk that addresses how to effectively suppress the virus, or control the damage it will cause.

In fact, all I've seen is denial.

on reflection.


I'm not being paid to come up with the solutions for this NPHET are.

I'm just suffering their inability to come up with anything different.
And if thats the best they can come up with - it's poor form.

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

I've outlined my thoughts many times on this thread. I'm not rehashing.
Dalyboy above hits it reasonably well we'd differ on minor things.
I'd open nearly everything







Actually one of my best mates is PhD in science left academia (main Irish uni) for private sector pharma after a decade. I know all his stories.
I reckon I know more than you.

What's your plan if the hospitals are overrun?

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

P thats is disgusting.

You know full well cancer screening was halted.

I cant believe the attitude of blaming the victim

To be fair, screening was halted but if you were showing symptoms, doctors were seeing people and referring them for treatment.

Don't Chute!

Turned on Newstalk this morning.
Pat Kenny: “next up, how do we ensure the Covid message hits home”?
Turned off Newstalk.

Penfailed

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

That is no true, they were saying the exact opposite! They were begging people to go to their doctor or go to A&E if they needed. NEPHET were saying it many nights in their briefing that they were very concerned at how quiet A&E was and how people need to go and get checked if needed.

This was further highlighted when Tony Holohan had to go to A&E himself and the next day really begged people to not be afraid to get checked and to go to doctors or hospital if needed.

Correct. I haven't been agreeing with much that you've posted on this thread recently but this is on the money.

weldoninhio

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

An idiotic policy, can't believe there are people still suggesting this.

I don't want covid, I don't know anyone else who wants it either. Maybe you do but it's bizarre if you do. We need to stop the virus spread, minimise the number of people getting this potentially deadly virus with unknown long term consequences even for those who are not very sick with the virus itself.

Honestly, "let it spread" what is going on in people's heads.

How do you know you haven’t already had it??

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

How do you know you haven’t already had it??

Because I have had minimal contact with people outside of my family, I also have vulnerable family members who I have contact with so if I got it they would at best be very very sick or worse. I have not gone to a restaurant or pub, I have not met a single friend since early march etc

I have also had a test (mandatory for medial procedure I was having I didn't have symptoms) which would have shown up if I had any sign of it in my system for the previous weeks and prior to that I really was having almost no interaction with anyone outside the house.

I also use the tracker and have not shown as a close contact or I have no been contact traced to any confirmed case.

zerosugarbuzz

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Because I have had minimal contact with people outside of my family, I also have vulnerable family members who I have contact with so if I got it they would at best be very very sick or worse. I have not gone to a restaurant or pub, I have not met a single friend since early march etc

I have also had a test (mandatory for medial procedure I was having I didn't have symptoms) which would have shown up if I had any sign of it in my system for the previous weeks and prior to that I really was having almost no interaction with anyone outside the house.

I also use the tracker and have not shown as a close contact or I have no been contact traced to any confirmed case.

You still don’t know for sure.

AdamD

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Because I have had minimal contact with people outside of my family, I also have vulnerable family members who I have contact with so if I got it they would at best be very very sick or worse. I have not gone to a restaurant or pub, I have not met a single friend since early march etc

I have also had a test (mandatory for medial procedure I was having I didn't have symptoms) which would have shown up if I had any sign of it in my system for the previous weeks and prior to that I really was having almost no interaction with anyone outside the house.

I also use the tracker and have not shown as a close contact or I have no been contact traced to any confirmed case.

Mental