Second hand tractors are gone expensive

hopeso

selectamatic wrote: »

I personally wouldn't be going next nor near one but I'm simply stating one of them would do as a stockmans tractor for tipping about with a few bales and doing a bit of topping/fert.

It weighs around 3 ton, and is barely 6 foot wide. I seriously doubt if that's capable of handling two silage bales, let alone safe to do so.....

https://www.same-tractors.com/en-eu/tractors/open-field/2674-dorado-natural

orm0nd

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

No - I have a 135 already, and will be keeping it...

The JD, at 90hp is too big for my needs...

The td5010 is a perfect size for me - but it’s way beyond my budget - I appreciate it might do me for 40 years. But I just don’t have the cash for such a purchase...

This is what I was looking at - which is why I was asking about how to get a lad to check a machine in the north

https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/david-brown-1290-4wd/25793012

nothing much to go wrong, front axel gave trouble and parts are costly, if the hours are genuine , should have nothing to worry about.

selectamatic

hopeso wrote: »

It weighs around 3 ton, and is barely 6 foot wide. I seriously doubt if that's capable of handling two silage bales, let alone safe to do so.....

https://www.same-tractors.com/en-eu/tractors/open-field/2674-dorado-natural

Thats pretty similar dimensions to many 4wd 80hp tractors from the 80s.

It would be capable of handling 2 bales.

20silkcut

K.G. wrote: »

I was thinking about this and i was wondering have any of ye a reference between the price of a car and average wages at the time back along, just to see the changes in affordability

If you were to take the average industrial wage at £100 a week 40 years ago.

Massey Ferguson 165 £3 or £ 4 grand? brand new.

What was the price of a 2 year old whitehead bullock back then £5-600 ??


What was the milk price?
Probably much the same as now.

You have to remember the cost of borrowing money was very expensive back then.
You were better off if you had money to just leave it in a bank and let the interest accrue. That’s hindsight of course.

Would ya have been better off?
Many people weren’t though.
There was poverty and living conditions around when I was a child in the 80’s that you just don’t see anymore thank god.

Mooooo

Anyone know if refurbishing a machine would be worth it? I know CAT and volvo and the like over it for quarry or construction machines which are generally much larger anyone here of it being done for agri machines at a viable cost?

Mooooo

selectamatic wrote: »

Thats pretty similar dimensions to many 4wd 80hp tractors from the 80s.

It would be capable of handling 2 bales.

7840 here needs 450kgs on the weight stack put front to manage 2 fusion bales on the double handler anyway or she be looking at the sky

selectamatic

Mooooo wrote: »

7840 here needs 450kgs on the weight stack put front to manage 2 fusion bales on the double handler anyway or she be looking at the sky

Ya just 2 bales on the back of most yokes requires counter balancing. 2 on the back and one on a front loader tends to be a good balanced load for a big tractor.

But for the small same tractor above we were just discussing whether it'd handle one bale on the back and one on a front loader if fitted.

Gillespy

Mooooo wrote: »

Anyone know if refurbishing a machine would be worth it? I know CAT and volvo and the like over it for quarry or construction machines which are generally much larger anyone here of it being done for agri machines at a viable cost?

That's what I am thinking. Start with a fairly sound tractor, do the engine, new water pump, radiator, brakes, clutches, sort out hitch, linkage wear, new seat and tidy interior as needed, full respray. €1,000 per cylinder to do the engine properly is what a lad told me. Whatever all that will cost won't buy you much of a tractor.

Grueller

Gillespy wrote: »

That's what I am thinking. Start with a fairly sound tractor, do the engine, new water pump, radiator, brakes, clutches, sort out hitch, linkage wear, new seat and tidy interior as needed, full respray. €1,000 per cylinder to do the engine properly is what a lad told me. Whatever all that will cost won't buy you much of a tractor.

Dont forget tyres. I'd say you won't have much change off €40k if ya have to buy the tractor to start with. I put a new air seat into a tractor here recently. €650 plus VAT for a Sears air seat, the one that fits the New Holland TM series. Restoration is saucy.

Mooooo

Grueller wrote: »

Dont forget tyres. I'd say you won't have much change off €40k if ya have to buy the tractor to start with. I put a new air seat into a tractor here recently. €650 plus VAT for a Sears air seat, the one that fits the New Holland TM series. Restoration is saucy.

From what info I could find, a rebuild could be from 40 to 60% of new price. The smaller the machine the higher the percentage when it came to loaders anyway.

straight

hopeso wrote: »

You'd probably agree that your CX90 would be towards the lighter end of what would be considered safe/comfortable for loader work. The tractor in that link is probably half the size and weight of your tractor. It's only got a 2.9 litre engine, and 28 inch rear wheels. It's only designed for utility work.

Plenty lads with loaders on ford 2000's and the like. Didn't we all grow up drawing round bales on 2 wheels using the brakes for steering and reversing up hills, etc. 4wd, 88hp and a counterbalance is very safe if you have any idea what you are doing. Lads don't even seem to know what a side brake is now.

cjpm

Mooooo wrote: »

......
Got straw delivered and man delivering saw the 20 k hours on the clock of the loader and mentioned how the newer ones wouldn't do it. He has had and sold on 414 models in late 90s and noughties at the 10k hour mark and now has an second hand volvo with a few years.

Does anyone know much about JCB 412 and 414 loaders. Late 90’s or early 00’s
Opinions appreciated

keepalive213

20silkcut wrote: »

If you were to take the average industrial wage at £100 a week 40 years ago.

Massey Ferguson 165 £3 or £ 4 grand? brand new.

What was the price of a 2 year old whitehead bullock back then £5-600 ??


What was the milk price?
Probably much the same as now.

165 arrived here around 82, still in use here as a yard tractor.
Year 1976 one of the last I think.
Cost around 4k in Bohola at the time.
On a very small dairy operation summer milk cheques were well over a thousand pounds.

DBK1

keepalive213 wrote: »

165 arrived here around 82, still in use here as a yard tractor.
Year 1976 one of the last I think.
Cost around 4k in Bohola at the time.
On a very small dairy operation summer milk cheques were well over a thousand pounds.

You’d get up to €6k for it now for export as long as the engine is running ok and it has a square axle.

Damo810

selectamatic wrote: »

Thats pretty similar dimensions to many 4wd 80hp tractors from the 80s.

It would be capable of handling 2 bales.

That yoke wont stand upto it for log. 3000KG lift capacity would be at the hooks, doesnt mean it will lift 3T, also the valtra here has something like a 7T capacity, I wouldnt expect to put 7T behind it ad expect it to be safe. Even with a bale on the back of that the arse will be extremely light with a bale on the front, and the front will be quare light with just a bale on the back. It'll also have very little resale value. Something good secondhand will be a far better investment, and more than likely more reliable. It's the same marketing ploy for the likes of Hattat and Farmtrac, get them sold at small money sure lads are doing nothing with them and they're caught with them then. 50K would get you loads of options secondhand and you'll have a far more capable tractor.

Damo810

Gillespy wrote: »

That's what I am thinking. Start with a fairly sound tractor, do the engine, new water pump, radiator, brakes, clutches, sort out hitch, linkage wear, new seat and tidy interior as needed, full respray. €1,000 per cylinder to do the engine properly is what a lad told me. Whatever all that will cost won't buy you much of a tractor.

t's the finicky little bits that get you, and something going when you need it, would't feel dropping money into it, unless you can do it yourself its a one runner with the cost of labour. Might be tempting if you have a good yoke that you know but needs some bits. Seals,packs, tyres, wiring, oil pumps, 4WD drop box, bearings etc, depending on what youre looking at doing up you could drop a small fortune in a yoke, and still have a bad one. Theres a reason the tired old girls get exported rather than reconditioned here.

josephsoap

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/21559449

A nice tidy looking yolk there for a stock man

Not sure if the Lamborghini are any good reliable wise though.

20silkcut

keepalive213 wrote: »

165 arrived here around 82, still in use here as a yard tractor.
Year 1976 one of the last I think.
Cost around 4k in Bohola at the time.
On a very small dairy operation summer milk cheques were well over a thousand pounds.

I know the poster earlier said his father was able to buy a brand new tractor on the strength of the sale of 28 cattle but the reality was most farms in the 1970’s and 80’s were not buying tractors to their hearts content. Many farms back then in the 70-100 acre bracket had the likes of an MF 135 as the main tractor and that was it. ( the riordans on RTE had a 135 or was it a 148 someone show their age) There was much bigger tractors around at that time. There must be some other factor we are not taking account.

selectamatic

Damo810 wrote: »

Something good secondhand will be a far better investment, and more than likely more reliable. It's the same marketing ploy for the likes of Hattat and Farmtrac, get them sold at small money sure lads are doing nothing with them and they're caught with them then. 50K would get you loads of options secondhand and you'll have a far more capable tractor.

I don't disagree with any of this but I never stated anything to differ.

I merely stayed that with a loader fitted that same dorado would handle a bale of silage back and front for a stockman drawing in a scatter of bales. That's it. Never said it'd be a good choice or value for money or anything of the sorts but it'd work 2 bales.

K.G.

20silkcut wrote: »

I know the poster earlier said his father was able to buy a brand new tractor on the strength of the sale of 28 cattle but the reality was most farms in the 1970’s and 80’s were not buying tractors to their hearts content. Many farms back then in the 70-100 acre bracket had the likes of an MF 135 as the main tractor and that was it. ( the riordans on RTE had a 135 or was it a 148 someone show their age) There was much bigger tractors around at that time. There must be some other factor we are not taking account.

Places could hardly buy a battery for a tractor back then.

keepalive213

DBK1 wrote: »

You’d get up to €6k for it now for export as long as the engine is running ok and it has a square axle.

They are getting rarer now sq axles, they're all in Africa and the middle east.
212 Perkins, head never off it yet.
It'd make 8 or 9k private sale.

Its not just 2nd hand tractors gone expensive, everything is. Im no economist but it seems like inflation.

Dunedin

20silkcut wrote: »

I know the poster earlier said his father was able to buy a brand new tractor on the strength of the sale of 28 cattle .

28 cattle in today’s world would get you €50k which would get you a new tractor also (at the size that were bought in the 1970’s).

But the 28 cattle have to pay all the bills for the whole year so spending it all on the tractor mighten be the best use of it.

Bass Reeves

keepalive213 wrote: »

They are getting rarer now sq axles, they're all in Africa and the middle east.
212 Perkins, head never off it yet.
It'd make 8 or 9k private sale.

Its not just 2nd hand tractors gone expensive, everything is. Im no economist but it seems like inflation.

You cannot just equate the price of tractors to cattle. To rear 28 cattle to slaughter was probably a full time job. A lot of cattle back then were slaughtered at over 36 months. Friesian were carried to 48 months. It probably required 2-3 acres per head to raise them cattle.

As well people had less demand on money. That farmer more than likely paid no tax. His milk, potatoes , veg etc were produced on the farm. He probably had a small sheep enterprise and beef and lamb were slaughtered for the house. The only cost he had was salt, pepper sugar and tea and he probably did not drink too much either.

All the hay for them 28 cattle had to be saved, baled (small square) gathered and stored. Feeding was loading bales onto the tractor and taking them to where the cattle were wintering. He might well have stacked them out there in reeks. But every bale had to be manhandeled to feed them.

If you had 28 bullock and 28--30 month old stores as well as 28 year and a half stores you be full time feeding them during the winter. You be feeding 50-70 bales /day. If you were finishing a few for the winter they be mangles or turnips to be sliced and fed, any small potates or veg(not suitable for kitchen use) were chopped up and fed. You manhandeled maybe a mixture of barley, yellow meal and beetpulp as well as maybe some protein source to feed these cattle. This had to be collected from the co-op once a week either in the car traier or the tractor and box.

Economics were totally different

kevthegaff

We had a Leyland 272, a belarus and a 880 4wd for the hills back in the mid 80s, moved on then to 780 4wd, 780 2 wd and a cat loader. Must asked the father what they had before that when I'm home next. He was farming a good bit so was why he had 70-80hp tractors at the time

straight

K.G. wrote: »

Places could hardly buy a battery for a tractor back then.

They hadn't the wives out working back then you see. Haha

Mooooo

cjpm wrote: »

Does anyone know much about JCB 412 and 414 loaders. Late 90’s or early 00’s
Opinions appreciated

Neighbour has a 99( I think) 412. Lovely machine to drive. Has had the odd wiring issue, along with a few other things. But it's 20 yrs old too. Has weights on the back and dropping the 6'6 shear grab full from a height would have her rear end bouncing a bit. Main issue is back then they were contractors machines so may have had tough lives. Check centre pins, transmission I think is better after 04, talk to your mechanic maybe

hopeso

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Hi Bass...

Have a 135 - and I don’t really want to trade it, as it’s more an heirloom at this stage, and I’m kinda fond of it

When I say handy, I mean a bit bigger than the 135 and a good cab...
I only feed a few bales a year, but tis awkward enough with the 135...
After that it’s a small bit of spraying, fertilser, topping - to be honest, the 135 manages these away good enough...

The big issue is the $$$

Really - I am only hobby farming, so spending 7k - 10k on a tractor is as much as I could justify - and tis even difficult enough to do that...

A big reason for getting a half decent tractor is so the kids can come out with me...
At the minute, they can’t - cos if I need to do anything with the tractor, that rules them out... (the 135 just isn’t safe enough)

So - I was half looking at a gator as well - as this would be better for taking people. The 135 would do me away for another while if I was to get a gator...

Open to all suggestions...

I suggested a Zetor yesterday.....Here's a very nice example.... https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/zetor-6211/25997827

Dinzee Conlee

hopeso wrote: »

I suggested a Zetor yesterday.....Here's a very nice example.... https://www.donedeal.ie/tractors-for-sale/zetor-6211/25997827

Thanks Hope - bit far away from Cork is the only problem... It does fit the bill perfect though...

einn32

Mooooo wrote: »

Neighbour has a 99( I think) 412. Lovely machine to drive. Has had the odd wiring issue, along with a few other things. But it's 20 yrs old too. Has weights on the back and dropping the 6'6 shear grab full from a height would have her rear end bouncing a bit. Main issue is back then they were contractors machines so may have had tough lives. Check centre pins, transmission I think is better after 04, talk to your mechanic maybe

Drove a 1996 414 for a bit. The hydraulics were great in them but too light for rolling pits and struggled with pushing up wet grass in a pit. It went up in flames one day after a possible electrical issue though. Otherwise reliable machine for a farmer I think.

funkey_monkey

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Thanks Hope - bit far away from Cork is the only problem... It does fit the bill perfect though...

I wouldn't let distance be the deciding factor. When you are looking for something specific in the market then you'll need to travel to get it. Delivery can be about €300 - €400 but if you price around can be cheaper.
We had a couple of Zetors - the 7711 would have been similar to that. Good going machine and goes well if taken care off. Brakes can be the Achilles heel if not looked after.