Second hand tractors are gone expensive

FintanMcluskey

divillybit wrote: »

110-90 fiat's seem to have appreciated considerably in value of late, some are almost twice the price of an fiat agri F100 which would have the exact same engine..

Not quite, same engine as a an F115! The version in the F100 has different bore like the 100-90..

True though about the price. Staggering.

straight

Tonynewholland wrote: »

You won’t regret going new

Think I'd prefer something without adblue. I don't know why but I guess I'm just afraid of something new. And those big exhaust systems.

Grueller

straight wrote: »

It seems to be 45 - 50k for any decent 130 or 140 hp tractor with a loader. That's crazy for tractors with 6- 8k hours. Priced a new case the other day and it was 83k with a loader. Alot better value than second hand at the moment. I wonder would a new Zetor be a good tractor?

Maxxum 115?

Bass Reeves

Tonynewholland wrote: »

You won’t regret going new

Big difference between 45k and 83k. When you factor in that you only need 100+HP if you .do slurry and a few heavy type jobs yourself. Using contractor for this heavy type work throws 50k + easily free maybe double it. it puts a different prospective on spending huge money on tractors and machinery. When you throw free time or employed labour into the mix it changes the economics

Grueller

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Big difference between 45k and 83k

Big difference in 0 hours and 8000 hours too. I went to look at a maxxum 125 in Cooney Furlong in Enniscorthy with a neighbour last week. 8000 hours on it, tyres only 30%. €48000.
Finance that over 4 years and he has a worn out tractor at the end of the finance. Finance the new one at €83k over 7 years and the payment is almost identical but you have a tractor for years still.
If on high tax as you often say yourself Bass it is €24k vs €41,500. €17500 of a difference or on an 8000 hour tractor that is €2.20 per engine hour for ownership. They are the cheapest hours in that tractors lifespan imo.

straight

Grueller wrote: »

Maxxum 115?

Luxuum 120

Grueller

straight wrote: »

Luxuum 120

The maxxum 115 can be had at that money too or even a shake under.

straight

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Big difference between 45k and 83k. When you factor in that you only need 100+HP if you .do slurry and a few heavy type jobs yourself. Using contractor for this heavy type work throws 50k + easily free maybe double it. it puts a different prospective on spending huge money on tractors and machinery. When you throw free time or employed labour into the mix it changes the economics

I need the power for LESS slurry and drawing silage bales on the summer before crows make sh1t of them. Hard to get contractors to do the slurry at peak times.

Tonynewholland

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Big difference between 45k and 83k. When you factor in that you only need 100+HP if you .do slurry and a few heavy type jobs yourself. Using contractor for this heavy type work throws 50k + easily free maybe double it. it puts a different prospective on spending huge money on tractors and machinery. When you throw free time or employed labour into the mix it changes the economics

7/8k hours is a lot in a few years your at 10k and not many will touch a tractor with those hours. If your paying the higher tax rate the difference isn’t that much for a tractor that could last 20 years if minded

straight

Grueller wrote: »

Big difference in 0 hours and 8000 hours too. I went to look at a maxxum 125 in Cooney Furlong in Enniscorthy with a neighbour last week. 8000 hours on it, tyres only 30%. €48000.
Finance that over 4 years and he has a worn out tractor at the end of the finance. Finance the new one at €83k over 7 years and the payment is almost identical but you have a tractor for years still.
If on high tax as you often say yourself Bass it is €24k vs €41,500. €17500 of a difference or on an 8000 hour tractor that is €2.20 per engine hour for ownership. They are the cheapest hours in that tractors lifespan imo.

That's it. Tractors are not my thing but I need one. It's crazy money. The second hand tractors are not worth it. Say @ 83k. One of them tractors 2 - 3 years old with 2 - 3 thousand hours on the clock should be half the price of new. And 25k is enough for the 10 year old tractors.

Grueller

straight wrote: »

Luxuum 120

Actually like the fact that the luxxum are Austrian built. Steyr in drag really. It's just a pity they put the small cab on them. They would have benefitted from the larger more spacious cab of the maxxum imo.

straight

Grueller wrote: »

Actually like the fact that the luxxum are Austrian built. Steyr in drag really. It's just a pity they put the small cab on them. They would have benefitted from the larger more spacious cab of the maxxum imo.

The maxuum are bulkier for drawing loads and for high ground

cute geoge

What spec is the new maxxum for 83k like,That s/h maxxum for 48k if genuine are a top drawer tractor,they are bullet proof 6 pot and would be as capable as a tm/mxm

Grueller

cute geoge wrote: »

What spec is the new maxxum for 83k like,That s/h maxxum for 48k if genuine are a top drawer tractor,they are bullet proof 6 pot and would be as capable as a tm/mxm

3 spools
Push back hitch
16 x 16 gearbox 40k
Cab suspension only
8 led worklights
Full spec lrz 120 loader includes multidock, self levelling and soft drive
Electronic lift
On 600 and 480 tyres
Good farmer spec to be fair

cute geoge

Grueller wrote: »

3 spools
Push back hitch
16 x 16 gearbox 40k
Cab suspension only
8 led worklights
Full spec lrz 120 loader includes multidock, self levelling and soft drive
Electronic lift
On 600 and 480 tyres
Good farmer spec to be fair

Is it 110 hp ,the spec looks good ,new all the way

paddysdream

Grueller wrote: »

Big difference in 0 hours and 8000 hours too. I went to look at a maxxum 125 in Cooney Furlong in Enniscorthy with a neighbour last week. 8000 hours on it, tyres only 30%. €48000.
Finance that over 4 years and he has a worn out tractor at the end of the finance. Finance the new one at €83k over 7 years and the payment is almost identical but you have a tractor for years still.
If on high tax as you often say yourself Bass it is €24k vs €41,500. €17500 of a difference or on an 8000 hour tractor that is €2.20 per engine hour for ownership. They are the cheapest hours in that tractors lifespan imo.

He has that one a wee while as I looked at it last April.As far as I remember it was traded in to there January 2020 so a year on hand.
Fairly fresh for c.8k hours as it drove a lot better than some that supposedly had a good bit less on the clock but still a strong price.
Previous owner reckoned price is reflective of what his new one stood him as far as I can recall.
For some reason couldn't warm to it as loader seemed very "out front"

Bass Reeves

straight wrote: »

I need the power for LESS slurry and drawing silage bales on the summer before crows make sh1t of them. Hard to get contractors to do the slurry at peak times.

LESS slurry is driving total cost to 100k + extra and limitations on TAMs drawings as well as extra borrowings. It also requires tractor jockey hours if yourself at 10-12 euro/hour. Drawing bales is not really a HP driven issue unless you have the wrong technology. Even at that it easy enough to by an old straight six cylinder yoke that will do the job for the sake of 3-4 days work a year.

Bass Reeves

Grueller wrote: »

Big difference in 0 hours and 8000 hours too. I went to look at a maxxum 125 in Cooney Furlong in Enniscorthy with a neighbour last week. 8000 hours on it, tyres only 30%. €48000.
Finance that over 4 years and he has a worn out tractor at the end of the finance. Finance the new one at €83k over 7 years and the payment is almost identical but you have a tractor for years still.
If on high tax as you often say yourself Bass it is €24k vs €41,500. €17500 of a difference or on an 8000 hour tractor that is €2.20 per engine hour for ownership. They are the cheapest hours in that tractors lifespan imo.

Add 5k/ year on to costs above all off what you have posted, use a contractor and if he adds 5K to yearly budget get is tax deductible as well, but you are not sitting on the tractor on the June weekend.
By contracting in as much as possible you take 30-50HP off tractors depending on 4 or 6 cylinders, turbo included, add in man hours and what goes on the hitch.

If you want to br a jockey enter a Donkey Derby it much cheaper and better fun. Mind you I never got the inclination to do that.

straight

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Add 5k/ year on to costs above all off what you have posted, use a contractor and if he adds 5K to yearly budget get is tax deductible as well, but you are not sitting on the tractor on the June weekend.
By contracting in as much as possible you take 30-50HP off tractors depending on 4 or 6 cylinders, turbo included, add in man hours and what goes on the hitch.

If you want to br a jockey enter a Donkey Derby it much cheaper and better fun. Mind you I never got the inclination to do that.

Cant get the contractors when you want them and the way things are going they are only going to get more expensive.

K.G.

Been looking to change one of the tractors last couple of months and have come to number of conclusions. Serious money in second hand tractors for dealers-5 grand on Irish tractors and 10k on imports.most dealer s are moving at most 2 tractors a month and even with warranty might only get caught for a big bill on one tractor in the year with your standard 3 months warranty.alot of people compare a new 110 hp tractor to secondhand tractors of much higher hp and spec.100 hp tractor nowadays is fast becoming a 35 and is really only fit for topping/fertiliser and feeding bales.

Robson99

Is there any value in sourcing and importing a second hand tractor from the UK? Say something like a TL 90 for between 15 and 20k ( loader not required)

Mooooo

With Brexit will there be VAT to pay in both sides?

K.G.

Mooooo wrote: »

With Brexit will there be VAT to pay in both sides?

My understanding is now everyone will have to pay the vat in the uk but if your are irish registered you can get it back here whereas up to this Irish vat registered did pay the vat in the uk .as far as im aware everything else is similar except agricultural machinery now has to have a cert to say its cleaned properly but that was coming in anyway and has nothing to do with brexit.good few tractors in the country as fellas have imported a good few just in case there was duty went on them so tractors were in demand in the uk the last couple of months.3 or 4 months time might be a good time to look in the uk.all the dealers will tell you that they are mad busy but when you go to the yard you re knocking cobwebs off the tractors and batteries are low.the tams,covid and dairy expansion is slowing down trade as alot of lads are buying dribble/tanks and think the tractor will do for another year or 2 and lads are just a bit slower to travel with covid.open to correction on the tractor import stuff

Tonynewholland

The Examiner online has a bit on importing machinery from the UK under the new rules.

rs8

Has anyone noticed that the new holland tm tractors are gone crazy expensive.... most with 10k plus hours on them!! Crazy stuff

K.G.

rs8 wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that the new holland tm tractors are gone crazy expensive.... most with 10k plus hours on them!! Crazy stuff

Dont talk to me its nuts and you could drop 10 k into their gearbox the week after buying them.

White Clover

K.G. wrote: »

Dont talk to me its nuts and you could drop 10 k into their gearbox the week after buying them.

TM's areTotally over rated. Noisy yokes too and absolute sows on Diesel.

Command

And TMs are not very comfortable either.. Hard to no about buying tractors i don’t think 8-9000 hours on a well serviced tractor is a problem.. I bought a 185hp 9 year old tractor with 9100 hours last year it’s for the contracting work.. fear happy with it.. can someone show me where farmers are saving by ploughing money into machinery to do little work and the other thing you say that you can’t get your contractor when you want him..Iv no problem been with a farmer when they give you notice about there plans but this thing of ringing yesterday looking for ya today doesn’t work.. sorry about long reply..

Bullocks

Command wrote: »

And TMs are not very comfortable either.. Hard to no about buying tractors i don’t think 8-9000 hours on a well serviced tractor is a problem.. I bought a 185hp 9 year old tractor with 9100 hours last year it’s for the contracting work.. fear happy with it.. can someone show me where farmers are saving by ploughing money into machinery to do little work and the other thing you say that you can’t get your contractor when you want him..Iv no problem been with a farmer when they give you notice about there plans but this thing of ringing yesterday looking for ya today doesn’t work.. sorry about long reply..

You're dead right about farmers not giving notice, I don't know how some contractors keep their cool at times. Even if it's only to provisionaly book a lad at least he knows to be expecting you to cut within a week or so

straight

K.G. wrote: »

My understanding is now everyone will have to pay the vat in the uk but if your are irish registered you can get it back here whereas up to this Irish vat registered did pay the vat in the uk .as far as im aware everything else is similar except agricultural machinery now has to have a cert to say its cleaned properly but that was coming in anyway and has nothing to do with brexit.good few tractors in the country as fellas have imported a good few just in case there was duty went on them so tractors were in demand in the uk the last couple of months.3 or 4 months time might be a good time to look in the uk.all the dealers will tell you that they are mad busy but when you go to the yard you re knocking cobwebs off the tractors and batteries are low.the tams,covid and dairy expansion is slowing down trade as alot of lads are buying dribble/tanks and think the tractor will do for another year or 2 and lads are just a bit slower to travel with covid.open to correction on the tractor import stuff

Some job trying to get the actual price off some of them too.

Bass Reeves

Bullocks wrote: »

You're dead right about farmers not giving notice, I don't know how some contractors keep their cool at times. Even if it's only to provisionaly book a lad at least he knows to be expecting you to cut within a week or so

I think this is the biggest issue. I always ring to let him know what I want done a week to 10 days before hand. For slurry it relatively easy. As well with LESS slurry systems you have a lot never window in that spreading on silage ground can take place up to at least 10 days post closing.

Silage is similar I let him know 10-12 days before when I want it done and he know if there a weather window I want it cut. I know with silage and hay he always has a problem with some lads cutting themselves but not letting him know until the morning of the day they want it bales and expect that he be there at the time they want

lakill Farm

my contractor gave up baling at the end of 2019. Said it was way to much trouble but we had a good understanding. I would call him 4/5 days ahead and drop him a text when it was mowed and again when raked and ready for him .

in the years before that I had bought a mower, tedder rake and square baler

So last year I took the plunge and bought a 2nd hand wrapper and baler and a 2nd tractor recently to drive the baler more comfortably. Use to bale 150/200 bales a year before

2020 I baled 550 bales between myself and work helping lads beat the weather with hay and silage without any advertising at all or looking for work.

2021 ill be at 1000 silage & hay bales myself and doesn't bother me if I never bale for someone else.

Mooooo

Agree you have to work with contractors in order to get the most from them but are fortunate here in that a number of contractors in the area. Pit silage, bale silage, slurry and reseeding are all done by different lads
But the cost of the job whether it is done by your own gear or someone elses is there anyway. Gave over 27k to contractors last year, still wouldn't do it myself. Even the slurry, who bill would cover repayments on a tanker, still wouldn't cover the time to do it or depreciation/ repairs etc. along with it
The rising cost of equipment isn't being matched by farm sales unless there is scale there really.

funkey_monkey

I see Grassmen have a new Armatrac out on demo at the minute if anyone is interested in looking at them close up.
No air seat for donkey seems to be the only issue so far

grassroot1

Mooooo wrote: »

Agree you have to work with contractors in order to get the most from them but are fortunate here in that a number of contractors in the area. Pit silage, bale silage, slurry and reseeding are all done by different lads
But the cost of the job whether it is done by your own gear or someone elses is there anyway. Gave over 27k to contractors last year, still wouldn't do it myself. Even the slurry, who bill would cover repayments on a tanker, still wouldn't cover the time to do it or depreciation/ repairs etc. along with it
The rising cost of equipment isn't being matched by farm sales unless there is scale there really.

+1 on slurry.Why would you give yourself the dirt and misery of slurry at the busiest time of the year. Book the contractor and pay them

straight

My silage and baling contractors are good. I always give notice and keep in touch. Baling man in particular is a pleasure. Next to impossible to get hedges cut. Slurry man gets loads of notice but sees me as a quite relaxed guy so when others start shouting I'm left waiting. Then it rains for weeks and opportunity gone. I can only see contractors rates going up while farmers income will stay static. 45k for a 13 year old 6430 with loader. At least 10 - 15k overpriced I think.

Morris Moss

Mooooo wrote: »

Agree you have to work with contractors in order to get the most from them but are fortunate here in that a number of contractors in the area. Pit silage, bale silage, slurry and reseeding are all done by different lads
But the cost of the job whether it is done by your own gear or someone elses is there anyway. Gave over 27k to contractors last year, still wouldn't do it myself. Even the slurry, who bill would cover repayments on a tanker, still wouldn't cover the time to do it or depreciation/ repairs etc. along with it
The rising cost of equipment isn't being matched by farm sales unless there is scale there really.

Do everything here ourselves, main reasons are, your not waiting on anyone else and we love hardship ha.

Anyway on the topic of second hand tractors the value isn't great at the moment, we did a lot of looking over winter in the UK and here, ended up buying a new machine instead, hope to have it in the next few days.

straight

Morris Moss wrote: »

Do everything here ourselves, main reasons are, your not waiting on anyone else and we love hardship ha.

Anyway on the topic of second hand tractors the value isn't great at the moment, we did a lot of looking over winter in the UK and here, ended up buying a new machine instead, hope to have it in the next few days.

What did ye go for?

Morris Moss

straight wrote: »

What did ye go for?

Deutz 6185, bigger than we need really at the minute, but a wagon is something we're thinking about, so that should be more than able for it.

kevthegaff

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White Clover wrote: »

TM's areTotally over rated. Noisy yokes too and absolute sows on Diesel.

Got a 03 tm155 with 8000 hrs, 18 months ago. The guy selling it I know minds machinery and he was trading in to garaghy while I was dropping in a tractor to get fixed, I took home the tm and it's been a love affair since. 25k inc vat

Mooooo

kevthegaff wrote: »

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Got a 03 tm155 with 8000 hrs, 18 months ago. The guy selling it I know minds machinery and he was trading in to garaghy while I was dropping in a tractor to get fixed, I took home the tm and it's been a love affair since. 25k inc vat

Good thing those calving cameras aren't working kev, God knows what they'd catch you at in the tm

degetme

Bought a newholland t6.175 with loader. 141 plate with loader and low hours. Tis on a bale slice for the winter. Got approval yesterday for a less tanker. I don't know is it madness. I could get a new conor tanker for 19k with dribble bar on rough prices including 60% grant and turn around and buy an agitator then. Usually send most of slurry to silage ground 1 mile away. Its cut 3 times a year. I dunno am I mad or not. Contractors are busy at silage when I want slurry out

hopeso

degetme wrote: »

Bought a newholland t6.175 with loader. 141 plate with loader and low hours. Tis on a bale slice for the winter. Got approval yesterday for a less tanker. I don't know is it madness. I could get a new conor tanker for 19k with dribble bar on rough prices including 60% grant and turn around and buy an agitator then. Usually send most of slurry to silage ground 1 mile away. Its cut 3 times a year. I dunno am I mad or not. Contractors are busy at silage when I want slurry out

It might sound mad at the time...But fast forward a few years and it will probably have paid for itself, especially if you are writing it off against tax. I'm assuming you are using a contractor at the moment? How much a year is that costing? The price of that will probably increase when he has to use a dribble bar, as well as inflation. How much is getting the slurry out where and when you want it worth? The only other consideration is your time......

degetme

hopeso wrote: »

It might sound mad at the time...But fast forward a few years and it will probably have paid for itself, especially if you are writing it off against tax. I'm assuming you are using a contractor at the moment? How much a year is that costing? The price of that will probably increase when he has to use a dribble bar, as well as inflation. How much is getting the slurry out where and when you want it worth? The only other consideration is your time......

I've another 35 year to go before I get the pension anyway. Ya using a contractor all along with splash plate. I'm going to try the umbilical lads for the home block in the next few weeks but grass covers are high. With the way regs are tighting up and trying to make better use of slurry rather than overloading it on silage ground. Built a new parlour last year and the dairy washings are more than I expected

K.G.

If you have the time to do it you havent the work to justify the cost and when you have the work to justify, you havent the time to do it.that being said we ve been moving over time to doing most of our own work.its been a gradual build up and our gear is ok but wouldnt be new stuff,some would have been bought with some issue that we sorted but would have been otherwise sound.

Bass Reeves

The question is if you decided to have a tractor for light work, feeding, fertlizer spreading, a bit of topping, odd bit of mowing of surplus paddocks, to pull a small tanker to spread dairy washings etc. What size and price range tractor would you need. What would be the life time of this tractor be. On the counter side you factor in the cost of the larger tractor, its projected lifetime and on the farm.

You also factor in running costs of both tractors. While every extra hours work has a diesel cost lads often fail to factor in extra fuel used in ordinary day to day work compared to a smaller tractor. Every litre/hour extra add 55-60 euro for ever 100 hours of work.

kevthegaff

Only thing is you back the years with a clean new holland or john deere, they hold value

Castlekeeper

For basic farm work this looks like good value. Given that you'd buy it for a little less and you'd have a loader on it for another 6-7k, it would be as good as new for c.€38k, if it's straight.

hopeso

Castlekeeper wrote: »

For basic farm work this looks like good value. Given that you'd buy it for a little less and you'd have a loader on it for another 6-7k, it would be as good as new for c.€38k, if it's straight.

link?

K.G.

Probably the cheapest way to motor is older high hp tractors,there tends to be a limited market for them and likely to burn less diesel than many modern 4 pots.way more comfy too