Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

partyguinness

I don't think Biden "gaffes" matter.

You are basically Trump or anybody but Trump at this stage.

fullstop

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Hiding like Biden, hardly.:rolleyes:

What is it you need to know?

I asked you to clarify how you felt Ireland were a “standout case” in mismanagement of Covid, but the same doesn’t apply to the US, deputy them having double the cases and double the deaths per capita. Maybe you can answer now.

Foxtrol

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

So many Americans think Biden is rapidly declining, this error is very badly timed. As for Trump he seems untouchable from the consequences of his mistakes.

This 'rapidly declining' strategy was the most idiotic one of the election, especially after how badly it worked when the Bernie Bros tried it during the primary.

Setting the bar so low that when people actually heard Biden speak, either during interviews, DNC speech, or the debates he came across really well compared to the drooling senile old man they were led to believe he was.

valoren

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

So many Americans think Biden is rapidly declining, this error is very badly timed. As for Trump he seems untouchable from the consequences of his mistakes.

It highlights the confirmation bias i.e. the narrative that Biden is senile. Everything he says is pored over seeking such verbal slip ups. So Biden can get a name wrong and his detractors get some ammunition to support the narrative but the actual commander in chief, who they support and who actually does exhibit mental decline, can talk about hydrosonic missiles with a straight face and they ignore such a gaffe.

Itssoeasy

I’ve just seen the Jared kushner comments about black Americans. So their issues with racism are “Complaining” and they apparently don’t want success enough. That’s rich from a guy who was born into wealth and has never had to work a day in his life. Between that and the mark meadows comments yesterday, it’s like the trump administration have decided to just say out loud the things that people already know or suspect.

drunkmonkey

fullstop wrote: »

:rolleyes: Pot. Kettle.

I’ll keep it simple this time to see if you’re able to understand.

What is the reason for the US having more than double the Covid cases and deaths per capita that Ireland do, despite a testing rate nowhere near double that of Ireland, and despite Ireland “failing” (your words), in your opinion?

Seriously, use one world from a statement I made and turn it into a question that poses more variables and assumptions open to interpretation from a multitude of viewpoints and want a simple answer, far from simple unless you do like yourself and accrediate it to Trumps failings.

Are you also asking do I think our response has been a success?

Quin_Dub

If Meadows wasn't already on Trumps execution list already , he surely is now.

Between his statement yesterday about Covid and his early "off the record" comments about Trumps condition when he was in hospital he would surely have already been fired were it not for the optics this close to the Election.

The statement yesterday was just a gift to the Biden campaign.

That along with the Pence inner circle all coming down with Covid , the final few days of ads just write themselves.

FatherTed

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I’ve just seen the Jared kushner comments about black Americans. So their issues with racism are “Complaining” and they apparently don’t want success enough. That’s rich from a guy who was born into wealth and has never had to work a day in his life. Between that and the mark meadows comments yesterday, it’s like the trump administration have decided to just say out loud the things that people already know or suspect.

Amazing. Really showing themselves for what they are.

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1320727336497668096

eire4

FatherTed wrote: »

Amazing. Really showing themselves for what they are.

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1320727336497668096

So its the usual poor people are poor because they are lazy canard that the rich and powerful trot out regularly except this time with some bigotry thrown in. Not a surprise at all really as his is who I always thought Kushner was/is but as someone else said now he just flat out said it in a very public fashion.

relax carry on

FatherTed wrote: »

Amazing. Really showing themselves for what they are.

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1320727336497668096

But so many Americans believe this notion that the poor are to blame for their own lot even if they are poor themselves. Their societal model seems to be a survival of the fittest one. But being the "fittest" doesn't mean you get there by merit alone; by any means necessary seems to be acceptable.

eire4

relax carry on wrote: »

But so many Americans believe this notion that the poor are to blame for their own lot even if they are poor themselves. Their societal model seems to be a survival of the fittest one. But being the "fittest" doesn't mean you get there by merit alone; by any means necessary seems to be acceptable.

Nail on the head. There is a real everyone for themselves mentality that is a core part of American culture and the I got mine screw everyone else is very much part of that too. The idea that poverty can be and often is structural is not something they see or care to see. To them poor people are poor because they are lazy end of analysis.

Midlife

eire4 wrote: »

Nail on the head. There is a real everyone for themselves mentality that is a core part of American culture and the I got mine screw everyone else is very much part of that too. The idea that poverty can be and often is structural is not something they see or care to see. To them poor people are poor because they are lazy end of analysis.

This is spot on.

What seems to matter to a lot of them is that in theory one can make it.

I'm theory yes, but they don't seem to appreciate systemic disadvantage.

robinph

But one day they might get lucky and their goose will lay the golden egg, but they'll be damned if they will do anything to help anyone else up from the bottom rung if that happens to them. It's still the other poor people's fault that they were too lazy to go and buy the magic goose that they bought.

They believe in the system keeping them down because if they make it up a level they want to be sure nobody else can drag them back down again.

eire4

Midlife wrote: »

This is spot on.

What seems to matter to a lot of them is that in theory one can make it.

I'm theory yes, but they don't seem to appreciate systemic disadvantage.

Yes the delusion that is the so called "American Dream" is just that a delusion as the US has close to the worst economic mobility rates in the developed world. There is also generally a pretty clear correlation between income inequality and economic mobility rates and of course income inequality has been getting worse in the US for decades now which has made the lack of economic mobility worse.

A funny but so true quote I read once that stuck out to me on this issue was "if Americans want to live the American Dream that should go to Denmark".

marno21

Barrett confirmed 52-48. Only Susan Collins with the standard meaningless dissent.

In a sign of the times, she is the first Justice appointed since 1869 where the minority party did not provide any support. Brett Kavanaugh had one Dem vote from Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia (likely the only reason he got re-elected in 2018).

Kiith

marno21 wrote: »

Barrett confirmed 52-48. Only Susan Collins with the standard meaningless dissent.

She only voted against as she already knew it would be confirmed. She's losing her re-elecation race, and hoping this will help her campaign. Can't wait to see the back of her (and hopefully a few other Republicans).

Headshot

Trump hoping Barrett gets him out of the hole he's in with his taxes and stopping mail in voting.

It's no wonder he pushed so hard to get Barrett appointed, it's his last chance to survive

Sickening some one can abuse their power like this

looksee

But his taxes don't have any religious/moral implications, and she could well use the opportunity to show her independence of him.

robinph

looksee wrote: »

But his taxes don't have any religious/moral implications, and she could well use the opportunity to show her independence of him.

Once the judges are appointed there is nothing that a president has to offer them. She has no reason to do anything for Trump and has has nothing that can be offered to her in return for her judgement going one way or the other.

Leroy42

looksee wrote: »

But his taxes don't have any religious/moral implications, and she could well use the opportunity to show her independence of him.

If she had any independence she would not have agreed to the party for the signing yesterday at the WH. It should have been kept simple and only very limited people.

The fact that she allowed herself to be used in such a blatant political stunt does not bode well for her behaviour in the future.

She was already voted in, no need for such a triumphalist display, particularly given the closeness of the election date and COVID accelerating across the country.

looksee

Leroy42 wrote: »

If she had any independence she would not have agreed to the party for the signing yesterday at the WH. It should have been kept simple and only very limited people.

The fact that she allowed herself to be used in such a blatant political stunt does not bode well for her behaviour in the future.

She was already voted in, no need for such a triumphalist display, particularly given the closeness of the election date and COVID accelerating across the country.

True, she is basically a weak and malleable character who will make gestures of independence - trump will get nothing from her that doesn't fit her rather strange worldview. She seems immature for the post, she may grow into it but I doubt it.

robinph wrote: »

Once the judges are appointed there is nothing that a president has to offer them. She has no reason to do anything for Trump and has has nothing that can be offered to her in return for her judgement going one way or the other.

Exactly.

looksee

I was just listening to ACB's acceptance speech and she said that a SCJ should not follow their personal preferences. How can this be possible? In her case for example she has chosen to accept that the Consititution is to be followed exactly as it was written, she is an Originalist, with no allowance for development of society or ideas. Is that not a personal preference? She could just as easily accept that the Constitution should be allowed to develop - as it has with amendments - and that, of course, would also be a personal preference. This applies to any judge, not just ACB, but she does seem to have a higher level of bat**** ideas than the average judge. Ideas that cannot avoid influencing her decisions in spite of her fine words.

dogbert27

I mean I don't even know where to begin with this stupidity:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8882211/Trump-claims-Barrons-coronavirus-gone-15-minutes.html

Barron beat the coronavirus in 15 minutes so it's okay to open schools?! :mad:

How about the test result was a false reading if in 15 minutes he doesn't have it?!

Seriously this is criminally negligent from the POTUS.

God help America if they have 4 more years of this.

I don't trust the daily mail tbh

gmisk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't trust the daily mail tbh

Yeah it is dire.
You know it's bad when wikipedia won't even accept them as a source lol
They will happily print any nonsense Trump says to be honest. If you look at the comments though the tide has well and truly turned on Trump.

Water John

This is a brilliant rebuttal of originalism by Lori Lightfoot Mayor of Chicago;

“Are you an originalist?” the Chicago mayor Lori Lightfoot, who is a lawyer but not a judge, was asked by a reporter this month.

Lightfoot chuckled. “You ask a gay, Black woman if she is an originalist?” Lightfoot said. “No, ma’am, I am not. Since the constitution didn’t consider me a person in any way, shape or form, because I’m a woman, because I’m Black, because I’m gay – I’m not an originalist.”

banie01

Water John wrote: »

This is a brilliant rebuttal of originalism by Lori Lightfoot Mayor of Chicago;

“Are you an originalist?” the Chicago mayor Lori Lightfoot, who is a lawyer but not a judge, was asked by a reporter this month.

Lightfoot chuckled. “You ask a gay, Black woman if she is an originalist?” Lightfoot said. “No, ma’am, I am not. Since the constitution didn’t consider me a person in any way, shape or form, because I’m a woman, because I’m Black, because I’m gay – I’m not an originalist.”

The sheer audacity of "Conservative" politicians and judiciary in the US in treating the constitution as an inviolable document that must be interpreted in line with the drafters intentions is staggering!

No Constitution is perfect, they are all products of their era and the very best constitutions are written with an explicit recognition that needs will change, society will change and that while the constitution will always be primary, there must be a means to recognise and adapt the document to new societal mores.

The rush to hold the teleological reading of the constitution as prime, in a society 250yrs removed from its drafting is frankly insulting to the citizenry.
That a document which has been amended 14 times since any of the authors were alive, must now be held inviolate?

It is a foundation, a framework and sometimes you alter or extend your home and discover problems with your foundations.
Society is much the same.

All constitutions, but in particular the US!
Need to be viewed as living and evolving, one cannot hold society today to the legal norms of 250 yrs ago.
Even in Ireland, we understand that.
Why are so many influential Yanks of the opinion that the constitution is a religious fatwa?
Rather than a societal foundation...

It bothers me, it irks me and that many Americans are so poorly informed as to what it is other than the bill of rights, which ironically are all amendments to the original, a recognition by the authors they missed something
Is a sad reflection on the level of discourse and critical assessment in mainstream US politics.

dogbert27

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't trust the daily mail tbh

It's not about trusting the Daily Mail for the article but the video of Trump is stating should be damning to him but like everything other crazy thing he throws out it gets forgotten about.

looksee

Water John wrote: »

This is a brilliant rebuttal of originalism by Lori Lightfoot Mayor of Chicago;

“Are you an originalist?” the Chicago mayor Lori Lightfoot, who is a lawyer but not a judge, was asked by a reporter this month.

Lightfoot chuckled. “You ask a gay, Black woman if she is an originalist?” Lightfoot said. “No, ma’am, I am not. Since the constitution didn’t consider me a person in any way, shape or form, because I’m a woman, because I’m Black, because I’m gay – I’m not an originalist.”

I'd thank that multiple times if I could!

flynnlives

After he loses himself and his administration needs to be investigated for the absolute cartography that cost 225k deaths and growing.

The US has the worst death rate in the world but spends the most per head on Healthcare. it was also one of the best prepared countries in terms of Pandemic planning. The Obama admin had created a pandemic office and set aside resources for it. Trump ended it.


Trump and Co. have blood on their hands and a criminal investigation on his obstruction and deliberate downplaying of the pandemic needs to be launched.