Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

drunkmonkey

Field east wrote: »

Re wearing of masks, three further points need to be part of the conversation re their effectiveness
(1) is there a possibility that they are effective against other viruses, bacteria, dust, pollen, etc especially during the winter months. I would have the people vulnerable to one or other of these contributors to ailments.
(2) when you see someone wearing a mast or wearing one yourself it reminds you of the presence of the virus and hopefully you will , as a result, wash your hands, etc.
(3) even if the mask is not effective , not wearing one, especially in indoor areas, is showing disrespect of sorts to those who are wearing one and who may have lost loved ones to the virus.

Just on those points

1. Yes there is a possibility and the evidence points towards it, https://nypost.com/2020/10/24/drop-in-flu-deaths-may-indicate-that-most-at-risk-died-from-covid-19/

2. I don't agree it reminds you to wash your hands, the evidence points the other way, distancing and hand washing have slipped massively. Sticking to the original simple message was effective and sustainable.

3. So even if useless they should be mandated with the threat of jail and fines on healthy people just to show solidarity with people who have lost loved ones. I just can't agree that's the right thing to do for society at large.

Igotadose

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yes, 100,000 people wearing a masks for a week prevents 5 flu transmissions was one of the stand out points from one of them.

Which one?

Phoebas

Graham wrote: »

Mike Pence's chief of staff tested positive along with another 150,000 people. in 48 hours.

The evidence is, Trump hasn't a clue how to manage/control/mitigate Coronavirus.

And Mike Pence, the head of the Coronavirus task force, who is a close contact, is not going restrict his movements per normal CDC guidelines, but will continue campaign activities.

drunkmonkey

Graham wrote: »

Mike Pence's chief of staff tested positive along with another 150,000 people. in 48 hours.

The evidence is, Trump hasn't a clue how to manage/control/mitigate Coronavirus.

What do you do lock down the country, you might get away with it here but not in the states. It'll be interesting to see how Biden manages it, surprised if he has the answer he doesn't do the right thing and come out with his plan now to save lives.

Igotadose

VinLieger wrote: »

But since there is literally no negative consequences to wearing a mask and proof that they deffinitely give at least minor amount of protection why would you not wear one?

Simples. The person advocating against all evidence to not wear masks, wants more people to die. Makes them fell good that they think by rattling on some web sites they can be responsible for deaths. Trump's pretty much the same way - death is good for him, means more votes, is what he's thinking as he's the strong man who will protect all his sheeple from death (by making sure there are other people to blame for the ones he causes.)

Graham

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Just on those points

What ever points you keep making over and over and over again.

Trump's approach to Coronavirus is failing the American people.

Leroy42

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It tracked 6000 people, half masks half without, it's a decent sample size. There's nothing like it at the moment. Agree with all your points there we can't cite it yet.
Back to my original point, a poster said wearing masks will reduce deaths by X amount, there is also no peer reviewed study to support that stance, it's just an assumption to support a political point of view, it's not based on any real world evidence.

You tried to make out that it was being dismissed.

Are you now agreeing that that isn't the case at all and it just isn't finished the process?

drunkmonkey

Graham wrote: »

What ever points you keep making over and over and over again.

Trump's approach to Coronavirus is failing the American people.

There all failing from what's I'm seeing. We have to be one of the stand out cases, two lockdowns, mandates, fines and we're still in a mess.
I'm not seeing what Biden can do any differently to Trump.

valoren

A excerpt from a Jim Al-Khalili book is prescient about conspiracy theories as being the polar opposite of scientific theories.

"...(conspiracy theories) seek to assimilate whatever evidence there is against them and interpret it in a way that supports rather than repudiates their core idea thus making them unfalsifiable. Many who hold such views will always try to interpret and favour evidence in a way that confirms their pre-existing hypotheses. This is known as confirmation bias. Often, in the case of ideological beliefs, we also hear the term cognitive dissonance whereby someone will feel genuine mental discomfort when confronted with evidence supporting a view contrary to their own. This potent combination of confirmation bias and the avoidance of cognitive dissonance works to reinforce pre-existing beliefs..so, trying to persuade someone in this frame of mind with scientific evidence can often prove to be a waste of time."

His point is that in the media you can't present "both sides of the argument" only scientific, empirical arguments. Like having a climate change denier on a discussion panel when the consensus among climatologists is that man made climate change is their best guess. So in the case of Mask wearing only peer reviewed and consensus agreed evidence is acceptable and casting doubt on their effectiveness is not scientific and thus currently unacceptable.

Graham

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There all failing from what's I'm seeing. We have to be one of the stand out cases, two lockdowns, mandates, fines and we're still in a mess.
I'm not seeing what Biden can do any differently to Trump.

Thread is about the Trump Presidency, not our approach, not Biden.

The fact is, Trump has failed the American people when you look at Coronavirus.

abff

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you do lock down the country, you might get away with it here but not in the states. It'll be interesting to see how Biden manages it, surprised if he has the answer he doesn't do the right thing and come out with his plan now to save lives.

“Do the right thing”? You’re having a laugh!

If there was a magic bullet, don’t you think somebody, somewhere would have come up with the answer by now. It’s a long, hard slog until an effective vaccine is found and is produced in sufficient quantity.

All that can and should be done in the meantime is to take whatever reasonable measures can be taken to slow down the spread of the virus and then ensure that the vaccine, when and if it becomes available, is made accessible to everyone by ensuring that it is not priced beyond the reach of even those with very limited resources.

If Trump remains in power, the likelihood of either of the above happening seems very remote.

duploelabs

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There all failing from what's I'm seeing. We have to be one of the stand out cases, two lockdowns, mandates, fines and we're still in a mess.
I'm not seeing what Biden can do any differently to Trump.

If Trump actively wanted to spread the virus, would he have acted any differently?

Graham

According to Trump, this is what turning the corner looks like.

transylman

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not seeing what Biden can do any differently to Trump.

Enforce mask wearing instead of playing down their effectiveness.
Not hold mass gatherings of people with no social distancing and no masks.
Not generally playing down the seriousness of the pandemic at every opportunity.
Much more testing and effective contact tracing.

Trumps handling of this has been a disaster. The fact that he is freely holding large rallies with people tightly grouped together and no masks is just insane to me. Completely and utterly insane.

briany

listermint wrote: »

1. America couldn't handle it case in point the tea party movement and it's take over of the Republican party.

2. Donald trump out flanked her by telling lies and playing on insecurities with promised which none of he has fulfilled in his 4 years. He lied people were duped. I suppose the lesson for Hilary is to lie tell every voter a different variant of what they want to hear do none of it rinse and repeat. Also have no morals, there's that.

There'll always be cranks, and although the Tea Party was definitely a sizable contingent of cranks, they weren't necessarily the voice of America or even the Republican party, given how many disaffected Republicans there appears to be right now. Meanwhile, the rest of America could handle Obama so badly that the man got to spend two full terms in office. Furthermore, given how easily Trump crushed every other candidate in the 2016 Republican primary, my suspicion is that voters were dissatisfied with establishment politics more so than the race or gender of the country's politicians. Trump defeated the straight white men in that race almost as easy the other contenders.

Women have held public office at all levels in the USA, up 'til VP and President. If people there can put trust in women to do all those jobs, I don't see why it would be a bridge too far to elect one as president or VP (the latter of which we could be seeing very soon anyway.

weisses

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not seeing what Biden can do any differently to Trump.

Acknowledging and dealing with the pandemic the way a president is supposed to do

Graham

Graham wrote: »

According to Trump, this is what turning the corner looks like.

Tbh, it looks like anywhere else in the world

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tbh, it looks like anywhere else in the world

Not at all, most countries exited the first wave. The US has effectively had a consistently high fatality rate since around June.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh, it looks like anywhere else in the world

Does that look like it's 'turning the corner', like it's almost 'gone away'?

Chips Lovell

Mod Note

Mask debates belong in the COVID forum, not here.

Thanks

drunkmonkey

weisses wrote: »

Acknowledging and dealing with the pandemic the way a president is supposed to do

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus. What's he meant to do, if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people, I'd much prefer to be living in a republican state under Trump than being part of the psychological and sceintific experiment being conducted here.

Graham

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus.

its going away
its gone away
it'll be gone by the winter
its going
its gone
we've turned the corner
we're turning the corner

Does that sound like a position of knowledge to you?

Nody

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus. What's he meant to do, if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people, I'd much prefer to be living in a republican state under Trump than being part of the psychological and sceintific experiment being conducted here.

But even without that, I don’t even like to talk about that, because it’s fading away, it’s going to fade away, but having a vaccine would be really nice and that’s going to happen.”

“If you don’t test, you don’t have any cases,”

“If we stopped testing right now, we’d have very few cases, if any.”

June 26th wrote:

“Well, I feel about vaccines like I feel about tests. This is going to go away without a vaccine. It’s going to go away, and it’s – we’re not going to see it again, hopefully, after a period of time.”

April 29th wrote:

“It’s going to go away. This is going to go away,”

April 26th wrote:

“I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute,” Trump said in a White House press briefing.

April 6th wrote:

“Stay inside and let’s win this and let’s get our country (back) as soon as we can. I think it’s going to be sooner than people think. Things are going really well,” Trump said.

April 3rd wrote:

“The CDC is advising the use of non-medical cloth face covering as an additional voluntary public health measure. So it’s voluntary. You don’t have to do it. They suggested for a period of time. But this is voluntary. I don’t think I’m going to be doing it,”

March 16th wrote:

“It washes through. Other people don’t like that term. But where it washes through.”

February 26th & 27th wrote:

“We’re very, very ready for this, for anything – whether it’s going to be a breakout of larger proportions or whether or not we’re – you know, we’re at that very low level, and we want to keep it that way,”
“This is a flu. This is like a flu,”

“It’s going to disappear. One day – it’s like a miracle – it will disappear.”

February 25th wrote:

“You may ask about the coronavirus, which is very well under control in our country"

February 10th wrote:

“Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do – you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat – as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape, though,”

“Looks like by April, you know, in theory, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.”

February 2nd wrote:

“We pretty much shut it down coming in from China,”

“But we can’t have thousands of people coming in who may have this problem, the coronavirus. We’re going to see what happens, but we did shut it down, yes.”

January 24th wrote:

China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!

January 22nd wrote:

“We have it totally under control,”

“It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

Yup, very consistent and coherent message from the President; no flip flopping, lying or backtracking going on here and all aligned with reality and medical advice. That's sarcasm btw.

Tell me how

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus. What's he meant to do, if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people, I'd much prefer to be living in a republican state under Trump than being part of the psychological and sceintific experiment being conducted here.

What?
Why?
How?
Where?
When?

Cody montana

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus. What's he meant to do, if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people, I'd much prefer to be living in a republican state under Trump than being part of the psychological and sceintific experiment being conducted here.

Inspired a lot of people to catch the coronavirus?

relax carry on

drunkmonkey wrote: »

if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people,

Inspired them to drink bleach or try to take some variant of Hydroxychloroquine, inspired them to not wear masks, inspired them to take their own Governor hostage etc?

pixelburp

Inspirational how? He's not very smart; very rich; very successful (his own is based off his daddy's Manhattan portfolio, his actual ventures often failures); very intellectually curious; very pragmatic; very cunning; very good at leading, the list goes on. In specifics to CoVid, the only inspiration Trump has committed was dangerous "joking" advice or mixed messaging about boilerplate responses to the pandemic.

Trump a spoofer, a gold plated tycoon who presented as the pinnacle of American success. Instead he's merely another trust fund boomer who frittered away his dad's wealth through a series of incompetent ventures. Nevermind the inability to organise a píss up in a brewery, Trump couldn't make money from a casino.

kowloon

He inspired a bunch of people to go out and protest in convoys or with their guns and their tacticool gear. Also inspired a few lads to try and kidnap a governor.

extra gravy

Trump inspirational haha. Biden overcame a horrific loss that would have destroyed a lot of men and raised two young kids in the aftermath. That's real character and more admirable and inspirational than the amount of dollars Trump does or doesn't have.

Detritus70

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What do you mean by that, pretty sure he knows there's a virus. What's he meant to do, if anything he's been inspirational to a lot of people, I'd much prefer to be living in a republican state under Trump than being part of the psychological and sceintific experiment being conducted here.

Acknowledging and dealing with the pandemic the way a president is supposed to do