The National Party

NovemberWren

@ Quin_Dub. So, you became a vegetarian?

NovemberWren

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Any evidence that we're being replaced?

[ahem, let me preface this with, a best pal on mine in London was, refugee, non-national].

dail eireann, Nov.2018, simon coveney, @c.48 mins.

Loafing Oaf

At some award ceremony back in the day, Bono declared U2's intention to "f**k up the mainstream". Well, Justin Barrett's mob are about as likely to "enter the mainstream" in any serious way as U2 ever were to f**k it up...

Realt Dearg Sec

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

At some award ceremony back in the day, Bono declared U2's intention to "f**k up the mainstream". Well, Justin Barrett's mob are about as likely to "enter the mainstream" in any serious way as U2 ever were to f**k it up...

Like untreated sewage sluicing into the Liffey, the national party are entering the mainstream.

circadian

coinop wrote: »

Let's have a thread about Ireland rather than America for a change. Founded in November 2016, the National Party was founded by Justin Barrett and his old friend James Reynolds. The two men had been involved in pro-life activism as teenagers and Barrett got a taste of the media spotlight during his No campaign to the Nice Treaty referendum in the early 2000s.

The National Party revolves around 9 core principles which makes it unique among Irish political parties in that it is ideologically based rather than following the populist trend of the day. The main points of NP ideology are: support for a 32 county Ireland, against mass immigration and against abortion.

The NP tested the waters by running candidates in the 2020 general election but none of their candidates were elected with only a few hundred votes each. The party blamed the media's determination to ignore them for their poor performance with most voters claiming to have never heard of the NP. Newspapers had incorrectly listed NP candidates as Independents if they even listed them at all. It seemed like there was a concerted effort by the mainstream media to pretend the NP did not exist and hope that they would fade away.

That all changed last night with RTE's hatchet job on Justin Barrett and the Nationalist movement in Ireland. RTE have realised that the NP are not going away so have decided they must take Barrett down. The public discovered the NP after the last general election and now the cat is out of the bag. They will build upon their name recognition for a more successful election run next time around. How do the esteemed posters of Boards feel about the NP?

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

Eric Cartman

CarPark2 wrote: »

What you call right wing seems to be focused on social conservatism. Traditionally, right wing has also encompassed pro-industry, low spend, low tax, economic policy. We had the PDs who were on the right in terms of economic policy, but very liberal on social policy. We had FF who, for years, were socially conservative and varied wildly on their economic policies.
The PDs disappeared due to not attracting enough voters and FF have changed their social policy (in order to continue to attract voters).

True enough, there is very little, if any, dissent from liberal social policy in the Dail. Renua tried, but didn't get elected. Aontu's one seat is probably more reflective of Peadar Toibin's personal popularity in his constituency than a strong regard for their policies. It seems that, at the moment, there isn't a big appetite for that.

The danger is that, with no mainstream party giving an outlet to a reasonably framed social conservatism, the role will be filled by crackpots who drive division, racism etc.
FF have always been the great catch-all party. I am not a fan of theirs, but by giving a voice to so many different groups, they have probably stopped crazies getting a foothold in Ireland.

Weneed to seperate fiscal conservative parties (the PD’s) and anti abortion parties (aontu/renua)

Theres a huge market for a fiscal conservative and anti immigration etc.. party in Ireland. They just need to keep as far out of the abortion / anything else catholic debate

The Nal

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Theres a huge market for a fiscal conservative and anti immigration etc.. party in Ireland. They just need to keep as far out of the abortion / anything else catholic debate

Nope. See the pathetic numbers the anti immigration lot got in the election. None got over 2%.

It may be a big thing i you're on twitter too much but not in the real world.

Eric Cartman

The Nal wrote: »

Nope. See the pathetic numbers the anti immigration lot got in the election. None got over 2%.

It may be a big thing i you're on twitter too much but not in the real world.

We dont have any anti immigration parties who dont fall into the same catholic sand traps.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

We dont have any anti immigration parties who dont fall into the same catholic sand traps.

They're the issues for the public that mattered to them... Not a question about parties.

JohnnyFlash

Things must be desperate in that party when an absolute fruit and nut bar like Justin Barrett is leader.

AllForIt

The Nal wrote: »

Nope. See the pathetic numbers the anti immigration lot got in the election. None got over 2%.

It may be a big thing i you're on twitter too much but not in the real world.

Yes but the immigration issue is as a result of us being a member of the EU. If one is to take a stance about immigration one must either advocate the EU changing the rules on freedom of movement which is nigh on impossible to achieve or for that reason advocate leaving the EU altogether.

So imo those stats reflect the fact that on balance most would prefer to remain in the EU with the immigration levels as they are, but that does mean all those polled are happy with the level of immigration per se. The 1% may reflect those want to stop immigration AND Leave the EU to achieve it. But to suggest 99% of ppl are not bothered about immigration is way off the mark imo.

iebamm2580

See john connors with members of the national party give a speech against roderic o gorman outside leinster house today, he stated at the start he is independent left if anything would imagine, gave a fair speech tbf, that little freak Barrett at the start though now he is what you call far right.

Bonniedog

iebamm2580 wrote: »

See john connors with members of the national party give a speech against roderic o gorman outside leinster house today, he stated at the start he is independent left if anything would imagine, gave a fair speech tbf, that little freak Barrett at the start though now he is what you call far right.

Getting a fair bit of abuse by all accounts on the twitter machine.

The lefties must feel a bit let down.

They don't like ethnics or gays pissing outside the tent

iebamm2580

Bonniedog wrote: »

Getting a fair bit of abuse by all accounts on the twitter machine.

The lefties must feel a bit let down.

They don't like ethnics or gays pissing outside the tent

idsay it has opened his eyes, they would be all supporting him on issues but now that he has went against the mob they quickly turn into nasty loons.

iebamm2580

iebamm2580 wrote: »

idsay it has opened his eyes, they would be all supporting him on issues but now that he has went against the mob they quickly turn into nasty loons.

He's tended to be viewed as a bit of a loon for past few years. Was a firm supporter of Grand Torino and then deleted all his tweets in favour of him. He's clearly not left wing in any respect.

iebamm2580

Deleted User wrote: »

He's tended to be viewed as a bit of a loon for past few years. Was a firm supporter of Grand Torino and then deleted all his tweets in favour of him. He's clearly not left wing in any respect.

Again i would agree torino is far right which we dont need, but i though Connors came across well in the speech. The bit about the first thing the minster for children is on about doing is bringing in legislation so kids can change gender, would child poverty and homelessness not be more of a pressing issue to the minister?

Bonniedog

Not being on same side as Tatchell and O'Gorman means that you are right wing does it?

If they'd been living in Cuba ten years ago, they'd have known all about the nuances on the left!

AllForIt

iebamm2580 wrote: »

See john connors with members of the national party give a speech against roderic o gorman outside leinster house today, he stated at the start he is independent left if anything would imagine, gave a fair speech tbf, that little freak Barrett at the start though now he is what you call far right.

He clearly has no idea what he's getting himself into.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0615/1147525-75-year-old-man-jailed-for-20-years-for-repeated-rape-a/

One of the women in this report said that sexual abuse in the travelling community, and I forget her exact words, and it's not in that report, that child sexual abuse goes unreported in her community. You'd think he'd be giving speeches about that instead what he is at if he is so concerned about protecting children.

iebamm2580

AllForIt wrote: »

He clearly has no idea what he's getting himself into.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0615/1147525-75-year-old-man-jailed-for-20-years-for-repeated-rape-a/

One of the women in this report said that sexual abuse in the travelling community, and I forget her exact words, and it's not in that report, that child sexual abuse goes unreported in her community. You'd think he'd be giving speeches about that instead what he is at if he is so concerned about protecting children.

I agree he should be, but it also doesn't disregard the points he made in his speech today about the new minster.

MrMusician18

The Nal wrote: »

Nope. See the pathetic numbers the anti immigration lot got in the election. None got over 2%.

It may be a big thing i you're on twitter too much but not in the real world.

I wonder why housing and homelessness were bundled together when they are two different issues.

Pherekydes

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I wonder why housing and homelessness were bundled together when they are two different issues.

I'd be more interested in why people could only vote on one issue, and why people read so much into such a flawed poll.

Eric Cartman

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I wonder why housing and homelessness were bundled together when they are two different issues.

It seems like they just polled a bunch of students or facebook. Theres no way in hell that represents the views of most people... climate being a bigger issue than taxes, not a chance

snowstorm445

New parties generally need big names to get anywhere. Renua and the PDs both started with Dáil and local representation (Renua had 3 TDs before it lost all of them). Both of their respective leaders were former ministers, Desmond O'Malley in particular had been a major figure in FF for years, and his schism with Haughey was a major break in Irish politics. Lucinda Creighton was seen as a rising star in FG and her split with Enda Kenny over a highly politicised issue ensured she gained extensive coverage.

Regardless of whether the Irish public agreed with the new party positions, the figures within them were also already popular at least locally.

The National Party have no representation anywhere, not even at a local level. Their leadership are mostly cranks. Most of the issues they campaign on are either unsavoury, flat-out anti-democratic (campaigning against gay marriage and abortion despite both having been recently endorsed by the Irish electorate), or contradictory (wanting to reinstate capital punishment despite being incompatible with EU membership, which they claim to support). Also their position on the "national territory" is something which was settled as part of the GFA almost a generation ago, revising that implies tearing up the GFA.

I do agree that an anti-immigration stance or Eurosceptic stance would normally attract some attention in Ireland, but unfortunately for the NP they share this position with at least two other extremely similar parties (the Irexit party and Gemma O'Doherty's ACI), and potentially a fourth if that Identity Ireland crowd from a few years ago is still around. If you already occupy a small political niche then having three parties with nearly identical positions will ensure that none of them will get anywhere (like the multiple versions of "Communist Parties" who fall out over tiny ideological differences).

But of course when you suffer from an imagined martyr complex as most far-right people in Ireland do then you can't foresee problems like these, the fault always lies with someone else, be it RTÉ, the government, George Soros, Greta Thunberg, or 5G masts. Some of them have even blamed the electorate, which of course is a guaranteed vote-winner.

Eric Cartman

I see the comments sections of the major news sites are alight with people condemning the ‘hands off our kids’ march during covid. Quite a lot of them failing to see the hypocrisy in their ‘black lives matter’ profile pictures.

iebamm2580

snowstorm445 wrote: »

New parties generally need big names to get anywhere. Renua and the PDs both started with Dáil and local representation (Renua had 3 TDs before it lost all of them). Both of their respective leaders were former ministers, Desmond O'Malley in particular had been a major figure in FF for years, and his schism with Haughey was a major break in Irish politics. Lucinda Creighton was seen as a rising star in FG and her split with Enda Kenny over a highly politicised issue ensured she gained extensive coverage.

Regardless of whether the Irish public agreed with the new party positions, the figures within them were also already popular at least locally.

The National Party have no representation anywhere, not even at a local level. Their leadership are mostly cranks. Most of the issues they campaign on are either unsavoury, flat-out anti-democratic (campaigning against gay marriage and abortion despite both having been recently endorsed by the Irish electorate), or contradictory (wanting to reinstate capital punishment despite being incompatible with EU membership, which they claim to support). Also their position on the "national territory" is something which was settled as part of the GFA almost a generation ago, revising that implies tearing up the GFA.

I do agree that an anti-immigration stance or Eurosceptic stance would normally attract some attention in Ireland, but unfortunately for the NP they share this position with at least two other extremely similar parties (the Irexit party and Gemma O'Doherty's ACI), and potentially a fourth if that Identity Ireland crowd from a few years ago is still around. If you already occupy a small political niche then having three parties with nearly identical positions will ensure that none of them will get anywhere (like the multiple versions of "Communist Parties" who fall out over tiny ideological differences).

But of course when you suffer from an imagined martyr complex as most far-right people in Ireland do then you can't foresee problems like these, the fault always lies with someone else, be it RTÉ, the government, George Soros, Greta Thunberg, or 5G masts. Some of them have even blamed the electorate, which of course is a guaranteed vote-winner.

Yeah dont know anything about national parties elsewhere but the bunch here are not the most likable and tbh not the most intelligent. I just thought Connors spoke well.

excludedbin

Eric Cartman wrote: »

It seems like they just polled a bunch of students or facebook. Theres no way in hell that represents the views of most people... climate being a bigger issue than taxes, not a chance

"Am I so out of touch? No, it's the electorate who're wrong." Even when the facts are staring you right in the face you can't accept that you're in the extreme minority. This is what happens when you spend all your time in echo chambers instead of talking to people in the real world.

Here: rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0209/1114111-election-exit-poll/

The exit poll - conducted by Ipsos/MRBI on behalf of RTÉ, The Irish Times, TG4 and UCD - is based on the responses of more than 5,000 people at 250 polling stations across the country immediately after they voted yesterday.

So not "just a bunch of students or facebook". The far-right need to accept that they speak for no one but their brainless selves.

Pherekydes

Deleted User wrote: »

Because only one issue can be most important?

Yes, but what can you infer from that about other issues that people find important? Not much, in my opinion.

Annasopra

iebamm2580 wrote: »

See john connors with members of the national party give a speech against roderic o gorman outside leinster house today, he stated at the start he is independent left if anything would imagine, gave a fair speech tbf, that little freak Barrett at the start though now he is what you call far right.

Independent left? He has been supporting Irexit, Gemma O'Doheety and Grand Torino.

iebamm2580

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Independent left? He has been supporting Irexit, Gemma O'Doheety and Grand Torino.

sorry i meant to put in a comma after independent, left was my presumption since he is a sinn fein man .

Annasopra

iebamm2580 wrote: »

sorry i meant to put in a comma after independent, left was my presumption since he is a sinn fein man .

Clearly on the far right with support for Gemma, Grand Torino and Irexit.