The National Party

AllForIt · 11-07-2020 2:12pm

The Nal wrote: »

Nope. See the pathetic numbers the anti immigration lot got in the election. None got over 2%.

It may be a big thing i you're on twitter too much but not in the real world.

Yes but the immigration issue is as a result of us being a member of the EU. If one is to take a stance about immigration one must either advocate the EU changing the rules on freedom of movement which is nigh on impossible to achieve or for that reason advocate leaving the EU altogether.

So imo those stats reflect the fact that on balance most would prefer to remain in the EU with the immigration levels as they are, but that does mean all those polled are happy with the level of immigration per se. The 1% may reflect those want to stop immigration AND Leave the EU to achieve it. But to suggest 99% of ppl are not bothered about immigration is way off the mark imo.

iebamm2580 · 11-07-2020 2:56pm

See john connors with members of the national party give a speech against roderic o gorman outside leinster house today, he stated at the start he is independent left if anything would imagine, gave a fair speech tbf, that little freak Barrett at the start though now he is what you call far right.

Bonniedog · 11-07-2020 3:14pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

See john connors with members of the national party give a speech against roderic o gorman outside leinster house today, he stated at the start he is independent left if anything would imagine, gave a fair speech tbf, that little freak Barrett at the start though now he is what you call far right.

Getting a fair bit of abuse by all accounts on the twitter machine.

The lefties must feel a bit let down.

They don't like ethnics or gays pissing outside the tent

iebamm2580 · 11-07-2020 3:16pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Getting a fair bit of abuse by all accounts on the twitter machine.

The lefties must feel a bit let down.

They don't like ethnics or gays pissing outside the tent

idsay it has opened his eyes, they would be all supporting him on issues but now that he has went against the mob they quickly turn into nasty loons.

11-07-2020 3:18pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

idsay it has opened his eyes, they would be all supporting him on issues but now that he has went against the mob they quickly turn into nasty loons.

He's tended to be viewed as a bit of a loon for past few years. Was a firm supporter of Grand Torino and then deleted all his tweets in favour of him. He's clearly not left wing in any respect.

iebamm2580 · 11-07-2020 3:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

He's tended to be viewed as a bit of a loon for past few years. Was a firm supporter of Grand Torino and then deleted all his tweets in favour of him. He's clearly not left wing in any respect.

Again i would agree torino is far right which we dont need, but i though Connors came across well in the speech. The bit about the first thing the minster for children is on about doing is bringing in legislation so kids can change gender, would child poverty and homelessness not be more of a pressing issue to the minister?

Bonniedog · 11-07-2020 3:23pm

Not being on same side as Tatchell and O'Gorman means that you are right wing does it?

If they'd been living in Cuba ten years ago, they'd have known all about the nuances on the left!

AllForIt · 11-07-2020 3:42pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

See john connors with members of the national party give a speech against roderic o gorman outside leinster house today, he stated at the start he is independent left if anything would imagine, gave a fair speech tbf, that little freak Barrett at the start though now he is what you call far right.

He clearly has no idea what he's getting himself into.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0615/1147525-75-year-old-man-jailed-for-20-years-for-repeated-rape-a/

One of the women in this report said that sexual abuse in the travelling community, and I forget her exact words, and it's not in that report, that child sexual abuse goes unreported in her community. You'd think he'd be giving speeches about that instead what he is at if he is so concerned about protecting children.

iebamm2580 · 11-07-2020 3:45pm

AllForIt wrote: »

He clearly has no idea what he's getting himself into.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0615/1147525-75-year-old-man-jailed-for-20-years-for-repeated-rape-a/

One of the women in this report said that sexual abuse in the travelling community, and I forget her exact words, and it's not in that report, that child sexual abuse goes unreported in her community. You'd think he'd be giving speeches about that instead what he is at if he is so concerned about protecting children.

I agree he should be, but it also doesn't disregard the points he made in his speech today about the new minster.

MrMusician18 · 11-07-2020 3:46pm

The Nal wrote: »

Nope. See the pathetic numbers the anti immigration lot got in the election. None got over 2%.

It may be a big thing i you're on twitter too much but not in the real world.

I wonder why housing and homelessness were bundled together when they are two different issues.

Pherekydes · 11-07-2020 3:51pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I wonder why housing and homelessness were bundled together when they are two different issues.

I'd be more interested in why people could only vote on one issue, and why people read so much into such a flawed poll.

Eric Cartman · 11-07-2020 3:52pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I wonder why housing and homelessness were bundled together when they are two different issues.

It seems like they just polled a bunch of students or facebook. Theres no way in hell that represents the views of most people... climate being a bigger issue than taxes, not a chance

snowstorm445 · 11-07-2020 3:55pm

New parties generally need big names to get anywhere. Renua and the PDs both started with Dáil and local representation (Renua had 3 TDs before it lost all of them). Both of their respective leaders were former ministers, Desmond O'Malley in particular had been a major figure in FF for years, and his schism with Haughey was a major break in Irish politics. Lucinda Creighton was seen as a rising star in FG and her split with Enda Kenny over a highly politicised issue ensured she gained extensive coverage.

Regardless of whether the Irish public agreed with the new party positions, the figures within them were also already popular at least locally.

The National Party have no representation anywhere, not even at a local level. Their leadership are mostly cranks. Most of the issues they campaign on are either unsavoury, flat-out anti-democratic (campaigning against gay marriage and abortion despite both having been recently endorsed by the Irish electorate), or contradictory (wanting to reinstate capital punishment despite being incompatible with EU membership, which they claim to support). Also their position on the "national territory" is something which was settled as part of the GFA almost a generation ago, revising that implies tearing up the GFA.

I do agree that an anti-immigration stance or Eurosceptic stance would normally attract some attention in Ireland, but unfortunately for the NP they share this position with at least two other extremely similar parties (the Irexit party and Gemma O'Doherty's ACI), and potentially a fourth if that Identity Ireland crowd from a few years ago is still around. If you already occupy a small political niche then having three parties with nearly identical positions will ensure that none of them will get anywhere (like the multiple versions of "Communist Parties" who fall out over tiny ideological differences).

But of course when you suffer from an imagined martyr complex as most far-right people in Ireland do then you can't foresee problems like these, the fault always lies with someone else, be it RTÉ, the government, George Soros, Greta Thunberg, or 5G masts. Some of them have even blamed the electorate, which of course is a guaranteed vote-winner.

Eric Cartman · 11-07-2020 4:08pm

I see the comments sections of the major news sites are alight with people condemning the ‘hands off our kids’ march during covid. Quite a lot of them failing to see the hypocrisy in their ‘black lives matter’ profile pictures.

iebamm2580 · 11-07-2020 4:22pm

snowstorm445 wrote: »

New parties generally need big names to get anywhere. Renua and the PDs both started with Dáil and local representation (Renua had 3 TDs before it lost all of them). Both of their respective leaders were former ministers, Desmond O'Malley in particular had been a major figure in FF for years, and his schism with Haughey was a major break in Irish politics. Lucinda Creighton was seen as a rising star in FG and her split with Enda Kenny over a highly politicised issue ensured she gained extensive coverage.

Regardless of whether the Irish public agreed with the new party positions, the figures within them were also already popular at least locally.

The National Party have no representation anywhere, not even at a local level. Their leadership are mostly cranks. Most of the issues they campaign on are either unsavoury, flat-out anti-democratic (campaigning against gay marriage and abortion despite both having been recently endorsed by the Irish electorate), or contradictory (wanting to reinstate capital punishment despite being incompatible with EU membership, which they claim to support). Also their position on the "national territory" is something which was settled as part of the GFA almost a generation ago, revising that implies tearing up the GFA.

I do agree that an anti-immigration stance or Eurosceptic stance would normally attract some attention in Ireland, but unfortunately for the NP they share this position with at least two other extremely similar parties (the Irexit party and Gemma O'Doherty's ACI), and potentially a fourth if that Identity Ireland crowd from a few years ago is still around. If you already occupy a small political niche then having three parties with nearly identical positions will ensure that none of them will get anywhere (like the multiple versions of "Communist Parties" who fall out over tiny ideological differences).

But of course when you suffer from an imagined martyr complex as most far-right people in Ireland do then you can't foresee problems like these, the fault always lies with someone else, be it RTÉ, the government, George Soros, Greta Thunberg, or 5G masts. Some of them have even blamed the electorate, which of course is a guaranteed vote-winner.

Yeah dont know anything about national parties elsewhere but the bunch here are not the most likable and tbh not the most intelligent. I just thought Connors spoke well.

excludedbin · 11-07-2020 4:47pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

It seems like they just polled a bunch of students or facebook. Theres no way in hell that represents the views of most people... climate being a bigger issue than taxes, not a chance

"Am I so out of touch? No, it's the electorate who're wrong." Even when the facts are staring you right in the face you can't accept that you're in the extreme minority. This is what happens when you spend all your time in echo chambers instead of talking to people in the real world.

Here: rte.ie/news/election-2020/2020/0209/1114111-election-exit-poll/

The exit poll - conducted by Ipsos/MRBI on behalf of RTÉ, The Irish Times, TG4 and UCD - is based on the responses of more than 5,000 people at 250 polling stations across the country immediately after they voted yesterday.

So not "just a bunch of students or facebook". The far-right need to accept that they speak for no one but their brainless selves.

Pherekydes · 11-07-2020 5:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Because only one issue can be most important?

Yes, but what can you infer from that about other issues that people find important? Not much, in my opinion.

Annasopra · 11-07-2020 5:20pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

See john connors with members of the national party give a speech against roderic o gorman outside leinster house today, he stated at the start he is independent left if anything would imagine, gave a fair speech tbf, that little freak Barrett at the start though now he is what you call far right.

Independent left? He has been supporting Irexit, Gemma O'Doheety and Grand Torino.

iebamm2580 · 11-07-2020 5:22pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Independent left? He has been supporting Irexit, Gemma O'Doheety and Grand Torino.

sorry i meant to put in a comma after independent, left was my presumption since he is a sinn fein man .

Annasopra · 11-07-2020 5:24pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

sorry i meant to put in a comma after independent, left was my presumption since he is a sinn fein man .

Clearly on the far right with support for Gemma, Grand Torino and Irexit.

iebamm2580 · 11-07-2020 5:29pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Clearly on the far right with support for Gemma, Grand Torino and Irexit.

if he supports them then yes i agree, hes a bit every way it seems.

11-07-2020 5:35pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

if he supports them then yes i agree, hes a bit every way it seems.

He always slants to the right, it's not our fault if he thinks he's left wing.

Annasopra · 11-07-2020 5:50pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

if he supports them then yes i agree, hes a bit every way it seems.

Nope. Far Right. Along with Barrett the Fascist.

iebamm2580 · 11-07-2020 5:53pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nope. Far Right. Along with Barrett the Fascist.

NOPE, i disagree that connors is far right.

Annasopra · 11-07-2020 7:21pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

NOPE, i disagree that connors is far right.

Its clear though. He has supported numerous far right personalities and parties. You cant deny this.

TheRepentent · 11-07-2020 7:25pm

This conners chap , is he the bad Irish actor who's celibrated for not being a knacker ? His twitter can be entertaining if it is......

11-07-2020 7:26pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

NOPE, i disagree that connors is far right.

If he's been doing podcasts with guys who supported burning down direct provision centers and agreed with his views. Then yes, he is far right.

Guy:Incognito · 11-07-2020 7:28pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

I agree he should be, but it also doesn't disregard the points he made in his speech today about the new minster.

The point is ridiculous. Putting through a fairly simple and quick bit of legislation has no effect on the other longer term stuff mentioned.

This is akin to the "have you no real criminals to be arresting" line. Lets focus 100% of garda resources on serial killers and ignore every other crime until every case is solved, then work downwards.

coinop · 12-07-2020 5:42am

A rousing speech by Justin Barrett at the March for Innocence in Dublin yesterday. However the most inspiring take-away of the day was seeing many right-wing groups - National Party, Irish Freedom Party and ACI - come together for the common cause of rejecting pedophilia apologists in our government.

It's encouraging to reflect that 5 years ago there wasn't really a voice for the right wing in Irish politics. Now we not only have several political parties to vote for, but there are also many media outlets willing to cover the stories that RTE and the mainstream refuse to, such as Roderic O'Gorman's shady connections. Media outlets such as Gript, the Burkean and the Liberal. The zeitgeist is moving in our direction lads. We can debate the reasons why but I personally believe the Left are their own worst enemy. When they embarrass themselves with amateur stunts like Eamonn Crudden tried (and failed) to do yesterday, they drive normal people away. Objecting to ordinary, decent people protesting against pedophilia is not a good look. Ar dheis, ar aghaidh.

Annasopra · 12-07-2020 7:38am

Barrett once again showed his true fascist scumbag colours with that speech yesterday and the disgusting banner.

ExMachina1000 · 12-07-2020 7:42am

Denmark and Austria have far right governments.

ExMachina1000 · 12-07-2020 7:44am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Barrett once again showed his true fascist scumbag colours with that speech yesterday and the disgusting banner.

What was on the banner?

Eric Cartman · 12-07-2020 7:44am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Barrett once again showed his true fascist scumbag colours with that speech yesterday and the disgusting banner.

What about that speech and banner specifically on their own merit are “true fascist scumbag” Im aware of who barrett is and I dont disagree he’s a fascist, but what specifically out of that speech and banner indicates such ?

Moghead · 12-07-2020 7:54am

coinop wrote: »

A rousing speech by Justin Barrett at the March for Innocence in Dublin yesterday. However the most inspiring take-away of the day was seeing many right-wing groups - National Party, Irish Freedom Party and ACI - come together for the common cause of rejecting pedophilia apologists in our government.

It's encouraging to reflect that 5 years ago there wasn't really a voice for the right wing in Irish politics. Now we not only have several political parties to vote for, but there are also many media outlets willing to cover the stories that RTE and the mainstream refuse to, such as Roderic O'Gorman's shady connections. Media outlets such as Gript, the Burkean and the Liberal. The zeitgeist is moving in our direction lads. We can debate the reasons why but I personally believe the Left are their own worst enemy. When they embarrass themselves with amateur stunts like Eamonn Crudden tried (and failed) to do yesterday, they drive normal people away. Objecting to ordinary, decent people protesting against pedophilia is not a good look. Ar dheis, ar aghaidh.

LOL this guy.

circadian · 12-07-2020 7:59am

Rousing isn't the adjective I'd use here.

dubrov · 12-07-2020 8:12am

Moghead wrote:

LOL this guy.

The delusion is strong in this one

drunkmonkey · 12-07-2020 8:20am

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

What was on the banner?

"Protect the innocent, punish the guilty."

Seems pretty reasonable to me. Not sure why some posters are disgusted by it. Only people it applies to are pedophiles.

ExMachina1000 · 12-07-2020 8:22am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

"Protect the innocent, punish the guilty."

Seems pretty reasonable to me. Not sure why some posters are disgusted by it. Only people it applies to are pedophiles.

That's what I was wondering. I presumed that there must be another banner.

You would wonder why some would have a problem with those words

Annasopra · 12-07-2020 8:28am

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

What was on the banner?

Pictures of nooses

Eric Cartman · 12-07-2020 8:31am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Pictures of nooses

And in itself or in the context of the words on the banner how are pictures of nooses fascist ?

McFly85 · 12-07-2020 8:33am

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

That's what I was wondering. I presumed that there must be another banner.

You would wonder why some would have a problem with those words

It’s vague nonsense, the country already has laws to protect the innocent and punish the guilty.

The noose suggests that they are pro capital punishment, the slogan suggests they don’t agree with the country’s laws about protection and punishment, and would prefer trial by media and kangaroo courts.

ChelseaRentBoy · 12-07-2020 8:34am

About time we had an option to vote right. We desperately need that option as this country is headed to a very dark place indeed if the current crop of idiots are elected again and again.

Eric Cartman · 12-07-2020 8:35am

McFly85 wrote: »

It’s vague nonsense, the country already has laws to protect the innocent and punish the guilty.

The noose suggests that they are pro capital punishment, the slogan suggests they don’t agree with the country’s laws about protection and punishment, and would prefer trial by media and kangaroo courts.

Capital punishment is compatible with a fair trial and a robust court system. If anything it becomes more essential if you have those punishments.

circadian · 12-07-2020 8:36am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And in itself or in the context of the words on the banner how are pictures of nooses fascist ?

It's the suggestion of capital punishment, which doesn't alow for the opportunity to someone to later prove innocence.

I'm sure you knew that and your question was designed purely to drag someone into an absolutely disingenuous argument of whataboutery, feigned ignorance and claims that "the left" are too easily offended or similar.

Acosta · 12-07-2020 8:37am

A bunch of idiots, many of whom spend a lot of time whinging about their longing for the country to return to the good old days of catholic Ireland, hold a rally about protecting children from peodophiles. OK

circadian · 12-07-2020 8:37am

Acosta wrote: »

A bunch of idiots, many of whom spend a lot of time whinging about their longing for the country to return to the good old days of catholic Ireland, hold a rally about protecting children from peodophiles. OK

The ironing is delicious.

Eric Cartman · 12-07-2020 8:38am

circadian wrote: »

It's the suggestion of capital punishment, which doesn't alow for the opportunity to someone to later prove innocence.

I'm sure you knew that and your question was designed purely to drag someone into an absolutely disingenuous argument of whataboutery, feigned ignorance and claims that "the left" are too easily offended or similar.

Well no, the poster i replied to claimed that the banner and speech specifically showed barrets ‘scumbag fascist colours’ , i merely asked how, supporting capital punishment does not make somebody a fascist, it was a genuine question as I agree Barret is a fascist, but disagree that the banner or speech yesterday showed that off.

McFly85 · 12-07-2020 8:42am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Capital punishment is compatible with a fair trial and a robust court system. If anything it becomes more essential if you have those punishments.

Don’t want to derail the thread about capital punishment, and I think we’d disagree anyway:)

But the noose suggests a very specific type of capital punishment. One done in public to satiate a mob, not one that punishes someone who has been found guilty by a court of law.

drunkmonkey · 12-07-2020 8:43am

Who were the pro pedophiles group that showed up...it's an unusual stance to take.

joe40 · 12-07-2020 8:46am

McFly85 wrote: »

It’s vague nonsense, the country already has laws to protect the innocent and punish the guilty.

The noose suggests that they are pro capital punishment, the slogan suggests they don’t agree with the country’s laws about protection and punishment, and would prefer trial by media and kangaroo courts.

How out of touch from the wider population are they. There is no desire among the electorate to introduce capital punishment in Ireland. Even when it was allowed and was the mandatory punishment for crimes it was never used.

It suits me fine while the NP keep up with this nonsense their support will never pass a few hundred.

The National Party

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