What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

dominatinMC

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Denmark have fantastic immigration laws.
They are restricting immigration to preserve their culture.
Seems like a no brainer

The reporter speaking to a Danish politician :
Isnt everyone born in Denmark a Dane?
The response: No the Danes are an ethnic group alongside the Swedes and Norwegians.
"They (immigrants) will never be Danish"

Alongside that Denmark passed over 100 new laws regarding migration and protection of Danish culture.
Among them:
Offering money to migrants to leave
Children of migrants put through Danish cultural classes
A Burqa ban
And migrant heavy areas are designated as ghettos and earmarked for bulldozing

Sounds like Belgium has got it's house in order. Could be the model for others to follow. But no doubt you will have the usual suspects bemoaning the rise of the far-right/alt-right (whatever they call conservatism these days) as responsible for this "inhumane" act.

Eric Cartman

TomTomTim wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/obraonain/status/1335548277178195968

Ireland, on the topic of immigration, is a land of laws on paper only. Our masters seem to think it's absolutely fine to ignore our laws and just hand out citizenship to people who clearly wouldn't qualify under normal standards.

Ohh thats exactly what we need... while we have a housing crisis and stupidly bloated numbers on welfare , 17,000 more claimants....

suicide_circus

TomTomTim wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/obraonain/status/1335548277178195968

Ireland, on the topic of immigration, is a land of laws on paper only. Our masters seem to think it's absolutely fine to ignore our laws and just hand out citizenship to people who clearly wouldn't qualify under normal standards.

Undocumented? Is that a euphemism for "entered the country illegally or overstayed visa"?

MontgomeryClift

TomTomTim wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/obraonain/status/1335548277178195968

Ireland, on the topic of immigration, is a land of laws on paper only. Our masters seem to think it's absolutely fine to ignore our laws and just hand out citizenship to people who clearly wouldn't qualify under normal standards.

https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/minister-to-give-residency-permits-to-17000-migrants-063ebc66?utm_campaign=article&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=web

Helen McEntee, the Minister for Justice, is preparing to give residency permits to around 17,000 undocumented migrants in the largest “regularisation” scheme in the state’s history.

How does it qualify as the largest when Alan Shatter (yeah, I know) granted citizenship to 69,000 long-term asylum tourists in a scheme that ran from 2011 to 2014? Maybe they'd like us to forget that.

In any case, Fine Gael prove again that parties of the so-called centre-right are the most treasonous and most deceitful.

MontgomeryClift

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

In any case, Fine Gael prove again that parties of the so-called centre-right are the most treasonous and most deceitful.

To be fair, all our political parties are much of the same.. Being the most treasonous/deceitful isn't much of a step down/up.

We really need a complete restart. Get some real people in there, and some way to remind them that they serve the people, not their need to virtue signal our nations future away.

weldoninhio

TomTomTim wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/obraonain/status/1335548277178195968

Ireland, on the topic of immigration, is a land of laws on paper only. Our masters seem to think it's absolutely fine to ignore our laws and just hand out citizenship to people who clearly wouldn't qualify under normal standards.

The sad thing is that people will see this and think "We have to get FFG out, I'm voting for SF in the next election" and SF want to do the exact same thing, along with bringing back anchor babies. We are screwed whoever we pick from the current crop.

Wibbs

TomTomTim wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/obraonain/status/1335548277178195968

Ireland, on the topic of immigration, is a land of laws on paper only. Our masters seem to think it's absolutely fine to ignore our laws and just hand out citizenship to people who clearly wouldn't qualify under normal standards.

the more I read of this kinda thing, something we never get the chance to actually vote on... Oh wait... we did once. And we rejected birthright citizenship by one of the largest majorities of any referendum in the history of this state and that's being dialled back as we speak. Yeah the more I see this stuff, the more I look at the replacement plan loonies and think, eh there's a hint of truth to it. Well, not really, it's far more about telegraphing how right on we are.

That we're doing this when this multicultural politic came late to us, when even so we're already seeing the divisive guff and the same demographics trajectory of every other European nation that has run this experiment and the same European nations having enough of it are now actually dialling this nonsense back? You do have to wonder about the pure idiocy of some of these muppets in power here.

Cordell

TomTomTim wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/obraonain/status/1335548277178195968

Ireland, on the topic of immigration, is a land of laws on paper only. Our masters seem to think it's absolutely fine to ignore our laws and just hand out citizenship to people who clearly wouldn't qualify under normal standards.

TBF that is the only realistic option. They can't deport 17K people, not only because of the outrage but it's simply impractical, so giving them legal status is the next best thing, at least some of them will be able to work legally and pay taxes.

WrenBoy

Cordell wrote: »

TBF that is the only realistic option. They can't deport 17K people, not only because of the outrage but it's simply impractical, so giving them legal status is the next best thing, at least some of them will be able to work legally and pay taxes.

Surely the answer can't be to just surrender our immigration system.
"Immigration laws are the only laws that are discussed in terms of how to help people who break them" Thomas Sowell

Arthur Daley

The country is a laughing stock out there.

Cordell

WrenBoy wrote: »

Surely the answer can't be to just surrender our immigration system.
"Immigration laws are the only laws that are discussed in terms of how to help people who break them" Thomas Sowell

I totally agree that this is the wrong answer, but probably the only possible one. They should focus the immigration system resources on preventing this from happening rather than fighting the fallout.

TomTomTim

Cordell wrote: »

TBF that is the only realistic option. They can't deport 17K people, not only because of the outrage but it's simply impractical, so giving them legal status is the next best thing, at least some of them will be able to work legally and pay taxes.

Outrage should not control society. It has been for the last few years and it is bringing us down a nasty road where the screaming children always get their way. Regardless of that, they'll probably cost the state more through the years than the cost of deportation.

Tired Gardener

Cordell wrote: »

TBF that is the only realistic option. They can't deport 17K people, not only because of the outrage but it's simply impractical, so giving them legal status is the next best thing, at least some of them will be able to work legally and pay taxes.

It would more than likely cost a lot more than the state will get from taxes to deport 17,000 people, even if only a small percentage of those 17,000 people worked.

A percentage of those 17,000 people may never work, and just live off social... but that is also true of non immigrants. Get a large enough group of people and there will be a percentage that don’t work and don’t plan on working if any government will give them money. Some people are work shy and will life on a small amount. That is just the reality of people.

Just like a small percentage of those 17,000 people will be top earners and pay a lot in taxes back to the state.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

TBF that is the only realistic option. They can't deport 17K people, not only because of the outrage but it's simply impractical, so giving them legal status is the next best thing, at least some of them will be able to work legally and pay taxes.

There's no guarantee that they will work legally and pay taxes.. they've been managing to go without doing so for this long.

And.. deporting them all is definitely possible. All it means is that we're enforcing our laws. You give them a limited time to leave, and those who don't, get prison time, or fines, before being forcibly evicted.

Tired Gardener

Tired Gardener wrote: »

Just like a small percentage of those 17,000 people will be top earners and pay a lot in taxes back to the state.

Those top earners will already be here legally. No company could pay such salaries without there being a tax trail, and Revenue would be on both their asses if the employee wasn't registered.

The 17k here illegally will be in low paid jobs, already on state supports, or living off monies from abroad.

Tired Gardener

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Those top earners will already be here legally. No company could pay such salaries without there being a tax trail, and Revenue would be on both their asses if the employee wasn't registered.

The 17k here illegally will be in low paid jobs, or living off monies from abroad.

Even if initially all those of the 17,000 who work do so in low paid job (which will still be paying taxes), there is no guarantee that they will stay in those jobs.

Again, 17,000 people is a large group... statically there will be some among that group who set up their own businesses, get better paid jobs, etc.

17,000 people is the population of a large town. Can you honestly imagine a town of that size where there are no locally owned businesses, and the only jobs are low paid?

ElJeffe

TomTomTim wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/obraonain/status/1335548277178195968

Ireland, on the topic of immigration, is a land of laws on paper only. Our masters seem to think it's absolutely fine to ignore our laws and just hand out citizenship to people who clearly wouldn't qualify under normal standards.

This country desperately needs a party on the right to represent our citizens. This is pure madness and will lead to all sorts of problems and issues down the line. Farcical decision.

Cordell

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no guarantee that they will work legally and pay taxes.. they've been managing to go without doing so for this long.

And.. deporting them all is definitely possible. All it means is that we're enforcing our laws. You give them a limited time to leave, and those who don't, get prison time, or fines, before being forcibly evicted.

Again, I agree in principle that this is wrong and immigration laws must be enforced.
But I still don't think they can deport them faster that they are coming in, it's 17K undocumented that came here in the last few years, and I don't think they will be able to deport even 1k in a year. But if they can, I won't stop them
Going forward, tighter control will prevent this from happening in the first place, that was my main point.

weldoninhio

I'd say 17k is the tip of the iceberg. We need a dedicated ICE department to track down over-stayers and deport them. Build a facility near Dublin Airport where they can be held until the next available flight to their country of origin. Freeze and seize any assets they have in Ireland, as the proceeds of crime (overstaying their visa).

ElJeffe

Cordell wrote: »

TBF that is the only realistic option. They can't deport 17K people, not only because of the outrage but it's simply impractical, so giving them legal status is the next best thing, at least some of them will be able to work legally and pay taxes.

No it is not. Why should we accept them? Do you actually believe they are all doctors and engineers who will be paying high taxes of course they are not. Australia deport people all the time why can't we follow a similar model. All this does is encourage more people to come as the word get's out we are a soft touch.

Build deportation centres to house them and send them back if they are here illegally.

Eric Cartman

Cordell wrote: »

TBF that is the only realistic option. They can't deport 17K people, not only because of the outrage but it's simply impractical, so giving them legal status is the next best thing, at least some of them will be able to work legally and pay taxes.

the chances of enough of them paying enough tax to offset the cost of the others is slim to none. realistically less than 1000 of them will ever be net contributors to the economy.

If the political will was there and the logistical systems which should be there were in place we could round up all 17k of them and have them booted back to where they belong by the end of February.

Tired Gardener

Tired Gardener wrote: »

Even if initially all those of the 17,000 who work do so in low paid job (which will still be paying taxes), there is no guarantee that they will stay in those jobs.

Again, 17,000 people is a large group... statically there will be some among that group who set up their own businesses, get better paid jobs, etc.

17,000 people is the population of a large town. Can you honestly imagine a town of that size where there are no locally owned businesses, and the only jobs are low paid?

Oh, I'm sure that some will have done so. The black economy. Pure cash transactions, thereby avoiding a tax trail. Better jobs would require being registered with Revenue, which should be leading to questions about their legal status.

It doesn't matter though. We don't need them to be there, since Irish people, or those migrants who are here legally, can easily fill any gap they leave behind.

Giving these people legal right to stay here creates a dangerous precedence. When this is applied to individuals, it's not so great an impact. Giving it to such a large number of people, encourages it to happen again.. and again.

Cordell

Cordell wrote: »

Going forward, tighter control will prevent this from happening in the first place, that was my main point.

We should be doing both. Tighter controls, and deporting all that are here illegally.

If it's difficult under the current system, then the system needs to be improved whereby such numbers can be deported easily. Allowing them to stay is dangerous, because it weakens the policies to prevent further illegals from entering, and staying.

lalababa

endacl wrote: »

Hard to imagine a dish that can’t be improved by adding a dash of spice.

Good thing.

What if the top of the spice bottle comes off and you're left trying to pick out bits...😬

Tired Gardener

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, I'm sure that some will have done so. The black economy. Pure cash transactions, thereby avoiding a tax trail. Better jobs would require being registered with Revenue, which should be leading to questions about their legal status.

It doesn't matter though. We don't need them to be there, since Irish people, or those migrants who are here legally, can easily fill any gap they leave behind.

Giving these people legal right to stay here creates a dangerous precedence. When this is applied to individuals, it's not so great an impact. Giving it to such a large number of people, encourages it to happen again.. and again.

So you have no issue with migrants who are here legally?

Yet you object to these 17,000 people going from undocumented migrants, to legal migrants.

Yes, Ireland does have a homelessness issue... that is a government problem, not building enough affordable housing. Migrants are people fleeing hardship, etc. It is possible to care about both of these things, as one doesn't impact on the other as they have different root causes.

ExMachina1000

Post Brexit UK tightens its borders while Ireland gives illegals residency and looks to be taking steps to reintroduce birthright citizenship. The only EU country to do so.

Painting a big fat bullseye on the country. Zero benefit to the country.

A country ran by idiots.

Tired Gardener

Tired Gardener wrote: »

So you have no issue with migrants who are here legally?

Oh, I have issues with some migrants who are here legally. Our immigration policies are sometimes nutty when it comes to refugees and supposed asylum seekers.

But no, I have zero issue with legal migrants who have the skills/education to place them in employment, that doesn't put them at the bottom of society.

Yet you object to these 17,000 people going from undocumented migrants, to legal migrants.

How is the "yet" relevant? And it's obvious I have problems with 17k undocumented migrants.

Yes, Ireland does have a homelessness issue... that is a government problem, not building enough affordable housing. Migrants are people fleeing hardship, etc. It is possible to care about both of these things, as one doesn't impact on the other as they have different root causes.

I said nothing about homelessness.

Migrants aren't fleeing from anything. Certain Refugee groups are, as are some Asylum seekers, but migrants move to places to improve their standard of living and make money. Many won't stay in Ireland long-term, but aim to move around.

I'm a migrant. I'm not fleeing anything. I work abroad, because I can earn more while also having a lower cost of living. Migrants come to Ireland because the standard of living is higher, and there is a welfare state to provide for them...

And you missed my point entirely about creating a dangerous precedence.

Marcos

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Post Brexit UK tightens its borders while Ireland gives illegals residency and looks to be taking steps to reintroduce birthright citizenship. The only EU country to do so.

Painting a big fat bullseye on the country. Zero benefit to the country.

A country ran by idiots.

I disagree with this last part, the people behind this are not idiots. they know exactly what they're doing.

ELM327

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Post Brexit UK tightens its borders while Ireland gives illegals residency and looks to be taking steps to reintroduce birthright citizenship. The only EU country to do so.

Painting a big fat bullseye on the country. Zero benefit to the country.

A country ran by idiots.

Thankfully there would need to be a referendum on that. One I would hope won't pass.

weldoninhio

ELM327 wrote: »

Thankfully there would need to be a referendum on that. One I would hope won't pass.

There would not need to be a referendum. All it takes is a Dail vote.