What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Gervais08

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm sorry but what is wrong with these two guys?

Bailey is grand, love to see him win and if I lived in London he’d get my vote.

Sadiq Khan has overseen the transition of their capital city to a ****hole.

KevRossi

Gervais08 wrote: »

Bailey is grand, love to see him win and if I lived in London he’d get my vote.

Sadiq Khan has overseen the transition of their capital city to a ****hole.

Murder rate in London is lower now than it has been for a long time. Only difference is that it's been reported on a lot more as well as being sensationalised by the tabloids for their own ends.

Disrespect for the law and petty crime hasn't changed there in decades. Ask any police officer in London. There are issues in parts of LOndon, buth there have always been no-go areas there. It's not just down to Khan, the rot set in years ago.

Fear sells papers.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_London

Year 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019
Number of homicides in London[37][38] 119 114 140 122 169 167 139 130 159 166 181 194 216 221 194 165 174 163 154 129 124 118 104 107 94 115 108 118 135 149
Homicide Rate (per 100,000) 1.7 2.1 1.8 2.1 2.1 2.4 2.0 2.3 2.3 2.5 2.4 2.9 3.0 2.6 2.2 2.3 2.1 2.0 1.6 1.5 1.5 1.3 1.3 1.1 1.3 1.3 1.3 1.3 1.4
London Population (thousands)[39] 6,829 6,829 6,844 6,874 6,913 6,974 7,015 7,065 7,154 7,237 7,322 7,350 7,386 7,414 7,476 7,559 7,646 7,753 7,878 8,003 8,125 8,257 8,245 8,478 8,603 8,432 8,214 7,891 8,245

biko

Counting homicides is a classic problem because the doctors are getting better at treating wounds and thus prevent deaths.

Let's look at violent crime that may, or not, resulted in death.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/863276/violent-crime-in-london/
Steadily increasing since 2012.

And just "crime" have also shot up since 2015
https://www.statista.com/statistics/380963/london-crime-rate/

So Khan have at least not managed to reduce crime.

Gervais08

biko wrote: »

Counting homicides is a classic problem because the doctors are getting better at treating wounds and thus prevent deaths.

Let's look at violent crime that may, or not, resulted in death.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/863276/violent-crime-in-london/
Steadily increasing since 2012.

And just "crime" have also shot up since 2015
https://www.statista.com/statistics/380963/london-crime-rate/

So Khan have at least not managed to reduce crime.

An ex has a pub in Enfield, a year ago they were given “stab kits” to help save stabbing victims till help comes. Knife crime is now that prevalent, it’s been used ten times as much as the defibrillator.

biko

To bring some sort of multiculti aspect into this


https://www.met.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/foi-media/metropolitan-police/disclosure_2019/february_2019/information-rights-unit---ethnicity-of-perpetrators-and-victims-of-knife-crime-in-london-from-april-2008-to-november-2018

"A Sky News freedom of information request to every police force in the country showed London was unique when it came to murder statistics.

Almost half of murder victims - as well as suspects - were black despite the ethnic group accounting for just 13% of London's population.

White people in London make up 60% of the population, but only account for 35% of murder victims and 24% of murder suspects"


https://news.sky.com/story/black-murder-victims-and-suspects-london-v-uk-11443656

Randy Archer

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I think multiculturalism is fine if introduced slowly over the years/decades, and in moderation.

There at many bad examples in Britain of how not to make a country multicultural. Whole towns have been taken over with a massive & overpowering influx of people from a totally different culture, thereby displacing the replacing the indigenous population, ergo there really are towns in England where the English language & English culture is in 2nd or 3rd place.

I'm told that a multicultural society is the better for it, and my own perspective is yes, it probably is, as I've also witnessed in Britain & other countries, but it should be attained gradually and in a controlled manner, and not as mentioned above.

The only way work it, to to actually invite non Eu nationals in. Ie only grant people permission to enter and reside when they are granted work permits. In that case, it’s evident that they have the specific required skills that are in short demand .

Obviously asylum seekers, who aren’t actually the main flow of immigration to Ireland (Thats our fellow EU nationals) they are the problematic ones . The state must ruthlessly enforced deportation orders when they do get rejected and don’t wonder to bleeding heart stories like the case in Portlaoise where the then Minister (also from the town) gave a kid leave to remain for dubious grounds

What was done in the summer of 2015 was an inevitable recipe for disaster . Ze Germans, never renowned for humanitarianism mistook asylum laws for their own laws in work permits .

In Ireland, the dog on the street knew where the asylum seekers were coming from and how safe their countries were

Hard to avoid a rise of resentment . Moreover, none of the public was consulted. The IBC citizenship amendment was the first public consultation about how we Irieh think of this immigration- the decision was rather empathetic

Doctor Roast

Kivaro wrote: »

It is indeed a race to the bottom, with our children and grandchildren destined to suffer the consequences. With the massive population increases expected in 3rd world countries e.g. Nigeria to have 400 million people by 2050, and Africa having the second largest population by the end of the century, high welfare/lax border-entry countries like Ireland will be a primary target for millions of poor, uneducated economic migrants in the coming years. The constantly repeated argument to "take in our share" by those with a vested or naive view will sentence Ireland to a dystopian future unimaginable now.

Time is running out to change the cultural and economical suicidal trajectory of our country, and it can only be stopped by getting a political party in power who respects the will of the majority; a majority (at the moment) whose demographic is that of a contributing or working member of the community.

We're a small country of 5 million, 17pc of which is already foreign born, under the EUs free movement of people we've opened up our country to over 400 million... Not to mention the migration from outside the EU, I'll let you do the math...

Randy Archer

Randy Archer wrote: »

Obviously asylum seekers, who aren’t actually the main flow of immigration to Ireland (Thats our fellow EU nationals) they are the problematic ones . The state must ruthlessly enforced deportation orders when they do get rejected and don’t wonder to bleeding heart stories like the case in Portlaoise where the then Minister (also from the town) gave a kid leave to remain for dubious grounds

I think the problem is the crossover that was allowed to be established between asylum seekers and refugees, where the NGOs saw a way to get more people in, and the terminology was allowed to merge somewhat. Actual Asylum claims are traditionally much lower than others because of the seriousness of the application, but we've allowed that to be spread out to cover so much more than it's original brief.

I suspect we need to return to the original process for such claims, weeding out the refugees, and getting back to the point where Asylum is a rare occurrence, rather than the "go to option".

I also think we should see fines, or even criminal charges applied to NGOs who advise migrants to break the rules, or falsify/destroy documentation in order to pass inspections. We've allowed the NGOs too much freedom to decide what their purpose is (considering that many are state funded).

ExMachina1000

Doctor Roast wrote: »

We're a small country of 5 million, 17pc of which is already foreign born, under the EUs free movement of people we've opened up our country to over 400 million... Not to mention the migration from outside the EU, I'll let you do the math...

Labour and now government working on reinstating birthright citizenship.
UK changing to points based immigration system.

Number of immigrants coming to Ireland is destined to soar.

Housing crisis?
Health and waiting list crisis?

You ain't seen nothing yet

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Labour and now government working on reinstating birthright citizenship.
UK changing to points based immigration system.

Number of immigrants coming to Ireland is destined to soar.

Housing crisis?
Health and waiting list crisis?

You ain't seen nothing yet

Oh... wait for eligibility of employment too... Businesses tend to cave in during recessions, and I doubt the government will be able to tap into the national debt long enough to bail everyone out. So.. expect to see companies close, with many people becoming unemployed.

And as denying migrants work will be claimed as discrimination, (even should the alternative Irish candidate be better skilled/educated), companies will need to be representative of the various ethnic groups in the country, irrespective of whether there is a growing number of unemployed Irish.

We can't have preferential treatment for the natives, after all. What kind of message would that send? :rolleyes:

Eric Cartman

biko wrote: »

To bring some sort of multiculti aspect into this


https://www.met.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/foi-media/metropolitan-police/disclosure_2019/february_2019/information-rights-unit---ethnicity-of-perpetrators-and-victims-of-knife-crime-in-london-from-april-2008-to-november-2018

"asians" and "afro Caribbean's" are prosecuted twice as much as white people for knife crime, twice, not even slightly over, and they're 13% of the population. This is absolute madness.

Randy Archer

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the problem is the crossover that was allowed to be established between asylum seekers and refugees, where the NGOs saw a way to get more people in, and the terminology was allowed to merge somewhat. Actual Asylum claims are traditionally much lower than others because of the seriousness of the application, but we've allowed that to be spread out to cover so much more than it's original brief.

I suspect we need to return to the original process for such claims, weeding out the refugees, and getting back to the point where Asylum is a rare occurrence, rather than the "go to option".

I also think we should see fines, or even criminal charges applied to NGOs who advise migrants to break the rules, or falsify/destroy documentation in order to pass inspections. We've allowed the NGOs too much freedom to decide what their purpose is (considering that many are state funded).

You haven’t a clue as to what you are talking about , be it the old system or the current asylum system

The definition between asylum seeker and refugee , is pretty easy to differentiate between. It can only be assumed that any conflation between the two terms is done intentionally ; it’s done to pull the wool over Lea sin formed people’s eyes - especially the useful idiots .

Since at least 2006 authorities consider both “refugee” application and “subsidiary protection” applications are considered together because asylum is a narrow definition and didn’t cover a scenario where one is from a war thorn area but that person can’t show that they have or would suffer persecution for a limited reason like race , nationality religion etc

As for the old process ? Lol ! That caused delays of 4-5 years with ORAC AND RAT having to hear the same facts under two separate applications - refugee and subsidiary protection . Today , all this is done in one application

Nothing in what you waffles out is relevant to what I said . Decisions are made , people are still being rejected and deportation orders are made . They are not however being enforced or cops chasing after the deportee . These people are legal bound to keep the authorities up to date as to their address but they go awol , cops haven’t a clue as to their whereabouts in the country

We can’t stop the number of applications being made, and the persons story ability to prove it and the situation in a country will determine whether someone gets refugee status . What we can do however is process the cases quickly and get them out before time builds up to a situation that the failed asylum seekers gets status via “marriage” or gets a selected person up the duff who in turn provides a citizen child which will help any future application for residency

The current laws are there to do that

Randy Archer

Randy Archer wrote: »

You haven’t a clue as to what you are talking about , be it the old system or the current asylum system

Okie dokie.

Nope, based on the manner of your post, I have little interest in engaging with you. Another day, maybe, but honestly, today, I can't be fecking bothered. Why feel the need to be snide, when nothing similar was directed towards you? Nah. Don't bother answering.

war thorn.. that did make me laugh though. Cheers. Oh. Just to add.. I did read your post, and for all your claims about my post, you didn't actually address it, but rather dismissed it, and moved off on your own rant.

But. Nope. We'll leave it at that.

Has the single procedure that was introduced in 2017 sped up the asylum process? I googled it but all I came up with were news reports from when it was introduced saying it would speed it up but I can't see any concrete numbers that it did make the process faster

Randy Archer

Deleted User wrote: »

Has the single procedure that was introduced in 2017 sped up the asylum process? I googled it but all I came up with were news reports from when it was introduced saying it would speed it up but I can't see any concrete numbers that it did make the process faster

You could start by actually , you know, checking out the websites such as the International Protection Office . Annual reports and stats . You clearly didn’t look hard enough

Covid had greatly slowed things down as their offices have being closed for much of this year

Normally , yea, it’s not as fast as it aspires to . It can take around 1-2 years from application to appeal but its a lot better than under the old system whereby you’d have 1-2 years under the “asylum” phase and another 1-2 years for subsidiary protection (application , and appeal)

Kivaro

It was funny watching France24 this evening when they were discussing President Macron's recent comment: "France must put a stop to the abuse of the right to asylum by human traffickers". The France24 commentator asked his guest if Macron was turning to the right due to that comment.

So if you object to the automatic right of asylum in Europe of those getting on a boat in North Africa, then you are right-wing.
But, the penny may be finally falling for European leaders on the farce of migrants crossing the Med en masse and getting automatic asylum in Europe. I'm sure our own Roderic O' Gorman will step in and volunteer Ireland to pick up the slack of the Africans that France will reject in the future. You know because ..... "We need to take our share".

irishproduce

I'd be ashamed of my life to work for those NGOs. Everyone knows their game. Wouldn't have much respect for any of them.

irishproduce

irishproduce wrote: »

I'd be ashamed of my life to work for those NGOs. Everyone knows their game. Wouldn't have much respect for any of them.

Nah. Some people are doing great work, and helping those in need. Let's not put everyone who works in an NGO into the same boat. Some people do volunteer with the best of intentions. I did volunteer work a decade ago, and met many selfless people, working in foreign countries, doing wonderful work.

The problem is that the administrators will be interested in greater funding, and that means broadening the scope of their operations. NGO's operate under a business premise, so, in spite of being non-profit, they'll still be interested in sustainability. And that leads them to questionable decisions, and agendas.

It's politics. The guys on the ground who volunteer to help and have no skin in the game, are the reasons why NGOs first become so popular. They met a need. Unfortunately, as time goes by, any organisation becomes inward looking and selfish to it's own needs. It's the same with any organisation, be it, Human Rights Watch, the UN, or an NGO.

I feel that NGO's should be broken up regularly after a period of time, and nobody should be able to make a career out of them. Volunteers, fine, but with limited opportunities to operate within the organisations.

Doctor Roast

irishproduce wrote: »

I'd be ashamed of my life to work for those NGOs. Everyone knows their game. Wouldn't have much respect for any of them.

I see Greek intelligence busted 33 NGOs for people trafficking there a while ago after a few month long investigation... The whole things a scam, same with what's happening in the English Channel, it runs like a well oiled machine, day in day out, escorted by the French navy to a pick up point and handed over to border farce, back to Dover for processing, then onto waiting coaches and hotels.
There's no way these migrants have a spare few grand after loitering around Calais for up to 2 years sleeping in camps. There's also no way human traffickers are buying brand new dinghies and life jackets for them from the videos I've seen....

I think the posters who favor further immigration from 3rd world nations (and so low skilled/educated, and in need of financial supports), should take a look at this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBWzhHNUgKY (take the 15 minutes to watch it.. )

It's about US corporate debt, but it's something that is happening in Europe too. Business debt is widespread throughout the western world, and is also common among government institutions such as Universities. A debt culture that has grown considerably over the last few years, exasperated by covid, and companies needing bailouts from the State. This will affect the Irish economy, because we're so tied to the international markets, but also because we have so many foreign business here. While the US can play the National debt game for an extended period, Ireland, as a small nation, can't.

Mad_maxx

i dont like seeing a guy walking down the street wearing a shawl or whatever some arab men wear , nor do i like seeing muslim women covered up

there is a lovely south asian family who have two kids in my sons school , they dress like everyone else and are very open and friendly , a delightful addition to the community , the other family have their sixth class daughter wearing the veil already

i know which family im more comfortable with , now im not in favour of the state banning dress codes as thats over reach in my view but its time feminists in the media stopped ragging against " white straight males " and took up the fight for muslim women who appear subservient to their partners , thats real worthwhile feminism

What about the feminist Muslim women who can decide for themselves? Why do you think that they are all told what to wear?
Some intelligent feminist women are highly insulted when others try to tell them what they should think.
Why do you think it matters which family you are more comfortable with? It says more about you, that you allow the clothes that other people wear to make you uncomfortable!

vriesmays

Mad_maxx wrote: »

i dont like seeing a guy walking down the street wearing a shawl or whatever some arab men wear , nor do i like seeing muslim women covered up

there is a lovely south asian family who have two kids in my sons school , they dress like everyone else and are very open and friendly , a delightful addition to the community , the other family have their sixth class daughter wearing the veil already

i know which family im more comfortable with , now im not in favour of the state banning dress codes as thats over reach in my view but its time feminists in the media stopped ragging against " white straight males " and took up the fight for muslim women who appear subservient to their partners , thats real worthwhile feminism

One of their religions encourages harmony and co-existence, the other encourages confrontation. Can you tell which one is which.

TomTomTim

bubblypop wrote: »

What about the feminist Muslim women who can decide for themselves? Why do you think that they are all told what to wear?
Some intelligent feminist women are highly insulted when others try to tell them what they should think.
Why do you think it matters which family you are more comfortable with? It says more about you, that you allow the clothes that other people wear to make you uncomfortable!

A feminist Muslim woman is not a Muslim in any sort of serious sense. They might as well be a communist who supports capitalism

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

A feminist Muslim woman is not a Muslim in any sort of serious sense. They might as well be a communist who supports capitalism

You clearly don't understand feminism

Gervais08

bubblypop wrote: »

You clearly don't understand feminism

In return you don’t understand the subjugation of women by Islam.

TomTomTim

bubblypop wrote: »

You clearly don't understand feminism

Maybe not, but I do know that it's incompatible with Islamic beliefs.

TomTomTim

TomTomTim wrote: »

Maybe not, but I do know that it's incompatible with Islamic beliefs.

Being homosexual is incompatible with Roman Catholic beliefs, yet plenty are.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

You clearly don't understand feminism

What is feminism though? Like, I've been watching the development of feminism all my life, and it's not one single form. We have, what, five waves at this stage?

When people say 'you don't understand feminism', I suspect they have a rather shallow understanding of what feminism is. It's got layers of agendas, and objectives. Comparing first wave feminism with fifth wave feminism is like comparing a Birthday cake with a Nuclear device.