What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

RyanthePirate

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

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Rodney Bathgate

Strongly disagree.

RyanthePirate

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Strongly disagree.

Why?

suicide_circus

immigration and multiculturalism are not the same thing

nthclare

Immigration suits the middle class so called liberals.
Under the guise of caring, what they're really doing is giving people jobs, with **** wage's therefore undermining the immigrant and undermining the natives because they won't work for **** pay.

So don't believe these vankers and so called woke plebs who are all for immigration etc

They exploit the vulnerable people because the Irish won't allow themselves to be exploited.

KungPao

It doesn’t work. And I’m sad to see the Ireland I grew up in lose it’s character.

If you come here, integrate.

El_Duderino 09

Completely depends on how it's handled.

If it's a case of low skilled workers coming in with the effect of keeping down wages for the low paid, then I'm probably not in favour of too much of it.

If its low skilled people who will likely live in poor areas so the government will need give additional funds for schools and all the other services. I'm fine with paying for that but if the government doesn't do it, it's just creating bigger and bigger pockets of poor areas and all the social problems that come with it.

I have absolutely no problem with other cultures in Ireland. I'm fine with Irish culture, history and traditions. I love learning about irish history and traditions. More cultures doesn't dilute Irish culture, it adds to it.

The saddest part of it is when the low paid Irish people and low paid immigrants turn on each other. Instead of the low paid standing together and trying to improve their collective lot, they fight against each other. See BLM vs monuments protectors, see working class Catholics vs working class Protestants in NI and places like Glasgow. See working class Irish vs Multiculturalism in this thread. It's so often the way these things work where the poor divide themselves rather then working together. Needless to say, it suits the other classes of people to have a weak and divided working class - cheap labour.

endacl

Hard to imagine a dish that can’t be improved by adding a dash of spice.

Good thing.

fly_agaric

RyanthePirate wrote: »

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

Might be more interesting as a poll (if trying to gauge opinion per your posts re this site/forum on another thread)?

Also question should not be loaded/more exact.

Immigration is not multiculturalism. They don't even have to overlap (can have multiculturalism in a country without immigration and can, to some extent have immigration without multiculturalism IMO)

TomTomTim

A project that is destined for failure

biko

I'd like to see the source for your claims OP.
Which economists?
Are they discussing Ireland?


Irish attitudes to immigration became more negative during the recession, and are now worse than the western Europe average, a report from the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) has found.

It revealed that 58% of those surveyed showed support for immigrants of the same ethnic group as the majority population in Ireland, in contrast with 41% support for Muslim and 25% support for Roma migrants.
https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-immigration-attitudes-3930048-Mar2018/

suicide_circus

there is an inescapable link between those in favour of mass immigration and those who generally do not have to compete with those immigrants for jobs.

TomTomTim

I was just checking your post history. You're actually trying to shame advertisers now because people are talking about thing you don't like. That's pathetic to say the least.

DrGreenThumb82

Which multicultural society are we trying to emulate?

Because if it is the U.S., France, Sweden or the UK then thanks but no thanks.

ChelseaRentBoy

Unfortunately the history of our species shows multiculturalism has failed and it will fail here also, it is already. We are well on the road to be the next Birmingham , Malmö or Paris here in Dublin.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like it to succeed but you'd want to be a right thick if you think it will.

biko

TomTomTim wrote: »

I was just checking your post history. You're actually trying to shame advertisers now because people are talking about thing you don't like. That's pathetic to say the least.

Like Ricky Gervais said:
"If you don’t believe in free speech for people who you disagree with, and even hate for what they stand for, then you don’t believe in free speech"

Wibbs

I disagree too.

RyanthePirate wrote: »

Why?

Because it doesn't work out too well long term and this is repeated in every European nation that tried it, or were forced into it by their history of colonialism. It doesn't work out too well for the immigrant population, even many generations in and unrest on the back of disenfranchisement is a given to kick off. It nearly always also depends on the demographics involved. Those who look the least like "natives" get the worst end of the deal. Find me a European nation where those of African origin don't overwhelmingly cluster at the lower end of their societies.

It hasn't worked throughout history either. Those "multicultural" societies that lasted to any degree in every single case had a very strong and self confident over riding culture and reacted viciously to any dissent from it. If you didn't two the party line then good luck. Even so there was a caste system in place where the "natives" tended to cluster towards the top. We can see that in Ancient Rome, China and the early Muslim empire. Rome had non Italians as emperors and senators, even descendants of slaves, but no Black Africans. All the above might have looked multicultural, but were actually monocultural down to the marrow. They were Roman, Chinese and Islamic. None would have questioned the values of their culture and heritage like so many White Europeans seem to do these days. Indeed one sign that Rome was on the way out was when they started to.

I also object to the notion that only White nations and cultures seem to require this "cultural diversity". The same voices lauding and pushing for multiculturalism would never in a million years suggest the problem with non White cultures and nations is that they don't have enough White people and should import more.

TL;DR? I don't want to follow every other European culture's experience with this politic and philosophy. I don't want ethnic ghettos, I don't want social disobedience, I don't want the negatives and what positives are meagre enough. Simple as that(though sadly because of the previous "born here makes you legally Irish" of the 90's it's too late to head it off entirely).

nthclare

nthclare wrote: »

Immigration suits the middle class so called liberals.
Under the guise of caring, what they're really doing is giving people jobs, with **** wage's therefore undermining the immigrant and undermining the natives because they won't work for **** pay.

So don't believe these vankers and so called woke plebs who are all for immigration etc

They exploit the vulnerable people because the Irish won't allow themselves to be exploited.

Wait until you're in your mid 40's and observe all the variables involved.
The personalities of the employer's, lifestyle and who they're rubbing shoulders with, licking ass and brown nosing..

People who are all for the environment ia a good example, and plagiarism of the new sexy trend and the same fckers wouldn't think twice about fcking a supermacs bag out the window of their Audi SUV along the Lahinch road.

Experience and observation is worth more than what you want or feel is right to believe...

RyanthePirate

TomTomTim wrote: »

I was just checking your post history. You're actually trying to shame advertisers now because people are talking about thing you don't like. That's pathetic to say the least.

This site has moderators representing the site who post openly racist things.

Any advertiser advertising on this site is complicit in the racist postings being carried out by those who work for Boards.ie. If they are not already aware then they are aware now.

Boards.ie needs to get its act together, are they going to allow moderators who make statements like muslim immigration leads to sexual abuse continue to represent them?

circadian

nthclare wrote: »

Immigration suits the middle class so called liberals.
Under the guise of caring, what they're really doing is giving people jobs, with **** wage's therefore undermining the immigrant and undermining the natives because they won't work for **** pay.

So don't believe these vankers and so called woke plebs who are all for immigration etc

They exploit the vulnerable people because the Irish won't allow themselves to be exploited.

ARRRGGHHHH DE LIBRULS!!!

Wibbs

TomTomTim wrote: »

I was just checking your post history. You're actually trying to shame advertisers now because people are talking about thing you don't like. That's pathetic to say the least.

More, taking that tack to dogwhistle and shout down shows that what argument someone, anyone has, does not stand up to much scrutiny. If it did and their position was self evident those tactics would not be required, save for the dim of debate.

o1s1n

nthclare wrote: »

Immigration suits the middle class so called liberals.
Under the guise of caring, what they're really doing is giving people jobs, with **** wage's therefore undermining the immigrant and undermining the natives because they won't work for **** pay.

So don't believe these vankers and so called woke plebs who are all for immigration etc

They exploit the vulnerable people because the Irish won't allow themselves to be exploited.

And how do immigrants on high salaries fit into your little diatribe?

RyanthePirate

biko wrote: »

Like Ricky Gervais said:
"If you don’t believe in free speech for people who you disagree with, and even hate for what they stand for, then you don’t believe in free speech"

You think its ok to say Muslim immigration will lead to child grooming gangs?

Answer direct: Yes or No

Don't try weasel your way out of your words.

Does a moderator of Boards.ie hold the opinion that Muslims in Ireland are likely to establish Child grooming gangs?

Wibbs

RyanthePirate wrote: »

This site has moderators representing the site who post openly racist things.

In your opinion and you seem to set a low bar for "racist". Even question the multicultural politic meets it it seems?

Any advertiser advertising on this site is complicit in the racist postings being carried out by those who work for Boards.ie. If they are not already aware then they are aware now.

More dog whistling.

Boards.ie needs to get its act together, are they going to allow moderators who make statements like muslim immigration leads to sexual abuse continue to represent them?

Well one could argue that in the UK at least one particular kind of sexual abuse is more likely depending on cultural and ethnic background. IE groups of men targeting and grooming women outside their ethnicity. If someone were to say that Irish clergy are more likely to be sexual abusers than say Kenyan accountants, I'd have zero problem with that position, because it would be borne out in history and stats.

Risingshadoo

Immigration is always a bad thing. Just look at America.

Eric Cartman

Allowing our EU friends in has proved to be a positive for Ireland, high employment rates, compatible culture, a lot of integration and very friendly people who put roots down and contribute to the community.

Some non EU migrants such as tech workers from the states and Asia work pretty well, although integration into our customs is pretty low among among the asian community but there are no real negatives associated with such.

migration from South America, Africa, the Middle East and some west asian nations (Pakistan etc..) has proven disastrous. High Unemployment, High welfare dependance, low education, high levels of criminality, almost no integration, remunerating a lot of money to their home countries and not spending in the local economy, complete cultural incompatibility and a lack of co-operation with gardai. We were promised their doctors and engineers, we got their equivalent to 'Anto from the flats'

tonycascarino

My view is that multiculturalism doesn't work. However, I do not mind fellow Europeans coming in but I think it is time to pull up the drawbridge on African and Asian economic migrants who are coming here pretending they are asylum seekers and who are adding nothing to society here in general.

RyanthePirate

Wibbs wrote: »

In your opinion and you seem to set a low bar for "racist". Even question the multicultural politic meets it it seems?

More dog whistling.

Well one could argue that in the UK at least one particular kind of sexual abuse is more likely depending on cultural and ethnic background. IE groups of men targeting and grooming women outside their ethnicity. If someone were to say that Irish clergy are more likely to be sexual abusers than say Kenyan accountants, I'd have zero problem with that position, because it would be borne out in history and stats.

Wibbs you were once an incredibly insightful, knowledgeable poster who many looked up to.

Now you are implying that people of certain religions are more likely to engage in sexual abuse.

Wouldn't that mean that Irish catholics would be one of the most feared groups for other countries considering the long and established history of Irish Catholics raping young children both here, in America and in Missionaries around the world?

biko

RyanthePirate wrote: »

You think its ok to say Muslim immigration will lead to child grooming gangs?

Answer direct: Yes or No

Don't try weasel your way out of your words.

Does a moderator of Boards.ie hold the opinion that Muslims in Ireland are likely to establish Child grooming gangs?

No, Muslim immigration doesn't automatically lead to child grooming gangs.
Happy?

Feel free to report any post where I have said grooming gangs are Muslims.



I am still waiting for your Irish sources btw.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy

nthclare

o1s1n wrote: »

And how do immigrants on high salaries fit into your little diatribe?

Like a square lemon that doesn't fit into in a hole made for a potato..

Using word's like diatribe makes your comment as sensible as using a sieve to drain a lake..

So I'd try something less inflatable for a response than diatribe...

Bitter sweet and all that jazz

Eric Cartman

biko wrote: »

No, Muslim immigration doesn't automatically lead to child grooming gangs.
Happy?

Feel free to report any post where I have said grooming gangs are Muslims.



I am still waiting for your Irish sources btw.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy

EU migrants do such a positive job that it tips the whole figure positive to cover up the massive detraction non EU migrants cause our economy.

suicide_circus

RyanthePirate wrote: »

Wibbs you were once an incredibly insightful, knowledgeable poster who many looked up to.

how do you know that? you're only just registered

KaneToad

RyanthePirate wrote: »

Now you are implying that people of certain religions are more likely to engage in sexual abuse.

What do you think about the religious practice of circumcising male infants?

Wibbs

RyanthePirate wrote: »

Wibbs you were once an incredibly insightful, knowledgeable poster who many looked up to.

Now you are implying that people of certain religions are more likely to engage in sexual abuse.

Wouldn't that mean that Irish catholics would be one of the most feared groups for other countries considering the long and established history of Irish Catholics raping young children both here, in America and in Missionaries around the world?

Wow, it's amazing how your politic affects your reading comprehension.

1) it's not a religious thing as such, outside of the usual Abrahamic women are lesser beings stuff which doesn't help.

2) It's more a cultural thing. The grooming gangs of "Asian"(as the UK describes them) men are nearly always of Pakistani extraction. No Iranian, Saudi gangs involved, who are also Muslims.

3) Yes Catholic priests and Irish ones were more likely to be involved in sexual abuse and not just in Ireland. I have no problem with that position. Does this mean all even most Catholic priests or laypeople condoned this? Of course not, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Irish Catholic priests were more of a risk for sexual abuse.

RyanthePirate

biko wrote: »

No, Muslim immigration doesn't automatically lead to child grooming gangs.
Happy?

Feel free to report any post where I have said grooming gangs are Muslims.



I am still waiting for your Irish sources btw.

I see you deleted your post saying the opposite in the Dijon thread and even had my post quoting yours scrubbed.

Its good to hear that you have retracted your previous position that Muslim Immigration = Child grooming gangs.

It seems you are learning Biko.

biko

OP is right that immigration has a positive effect on the economy.
There are thousands of people here that work for Irish, British or US companies.
"Immigration" itself isn't bad.

endacl

endacl wrote: »

Hard to imagine a dish that can’t be improved by adding a dash of spice.

Good thing.

You mean like if the dish is the middle East and the spice is Jews from eastern Europe?

Or the dish is south Africa and the spice is the white descendents of Dutch and British settlers?

El_Duderino 09

Wibbs wrote: »

I disagree too.



Because it doesn't work out too well long term and this is repeated in every European nation that tried it, or were forced into it by their history of colonialism. It doesn't work out too well for the immigrant population, even many generations in and unrest on the back of disenfranchisement is a given to kick off. It nearly always also depends on the demographics involved. Those who look the least like "natives" get the worst end of the deal. Find me a European nation where those of African origin don't overwhelmingly cluster at the lower end of their societies.
...

It worked out for Irish people even when they didn't do much to assimilate. Irish people are grand in the UK and America now. I often meet North English people through work and I think they have a better first Impression of an Irish person than someone from southern England. They often telle they have an Irish grandparent and how much they enjoyed their holiday in Ireland or they'd like to go to Ireland one day.

It can work out grand if the host nation forgets to be racist towards the I migrating cultures as the English did with Irish people. It remains to be seen if Irish people will be determined to see Multiculturalism as poor, dirty people who are here to cause crime and steal our jobs and our women. Or if we help them assimilate and treat them fairly - though we treat poor Irish people pretty badly in a lot of ways too.

RyanthePirate

Wibbs wrote: »

Wow, it's amazing how your politic affects your reading comprehension.

1) it's not a religious thing as such, outside of the usual Abrahamic women are lesser beings stuff which doesn't help.

2) It's more a cultural thing. The grooming gangs of "Asian"(as the UK describes them) men are nearly always of Pakistani extraction. No Iranian, Saudi gangs involved, who are also Muslims.

3) Yes Catholic priests and Irish ones were more likely to be involved in sexual abuse and not just in Ireland. I have no problem with that position. Does this mean all even most Catholic priests or laypeople condoned this? Of course not, but it doesn't take away from the fact that Irish Catholic priests were more of a risk for sexual abuse.

Well using your own logic Wibbs if its not a religious thing then I suppose you agree saying that Irish people are more likely to be paedophiles considering its no longer Catholics or clergy but a cultural thing.

So culturally Irish people have a higher likelihood of being paedophiles?

biko

RyanthePirate wrote: »

I see you deleted your post saying the opposite in the Dijon thread and even had my post quoting yours scrubbed.

Its good to hear that you have retracted your previous position that Muslim Immigration = Child grooming gangs.

It seems you are learning Biko.

Now you're just acting like a troll.

Either you have something concrete to say and can back it up, or you're just being purposely obtuse and inflammatory.

Wibbs

KaneToad wrote: »

What do you think about the religious practice of circumcising male infants?

And pubescent girls. Though both have their background in cultural practice, the religion stuff is more of an overlay. EG Jews and Muslims circumcise boys, but Christians don't have to by religious decree. Why? Because the new Abrahamic faith was absorbed by the Classical world where it was seen as something only the primitives beyond the gates did, so it was dropped. Same for the food restrictions of the other two faiths. Even today, try separating an Italian from his pork foodstuffs. Good luck. I'll bring grapes to you in hospital.

na1

This is the same as asking: are Irish people good citizens?

It all depends on WHO is immigrating.
The refugee who is living in a council house with a large family with no intention to find a job?
Or the highly skilled doctor or IT professional?

completedit

I lived in Prague. Seems a multicultural city that does well. Huge Vietnamese population who seemed integrated. Big Russian population too and I've heard they can stick to themselves but I wasn't able to tell the difference. Then you have huge amounts of random immigrant groups and everyone gels together but it's all through English. You can live there and never utter a word of Czech. If English wasn't so dominant that would probably cause problems but Czechs are happy to adapt

ELM327

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Allowing our EU friends in has proved to be a positive for Ireland, high employment rates, compatible culture, a lot of integration and very friendly people who put roots down and contribute to the community.

Some non EU migrants such as tech workers from the states and Asia work pretty well, although integration into our customs is pretty low among among the asian community but there are no real negatives associated with such.

migration from South America, Africa, the Middle East and some west asian nations (Pakistan etc..) has proven disastrous. High Unemployment, High welfare dependance, low education, high levels of criminality, almost no integration, remunerating a lot of money to their home countries and not spending in the local economy, complete cultural incompatibility and a lack of co-operation with gardai. We were promised their doctors and engineers, we got their equivalent to 'Anto from the flats'

I agree.
In my team at work, I am the only irish person on it. We had to "import" the rest (often at the company's expense) as the required skills were not available here. That type of skilled immigration is quite frankly needed. It would be worth noting that, due to the specialization involved, those who immigrate here for specific roles like in my example are likely to be highly remunerated and thus contribute much to the tax take.


On the other hand, places like direct provision centres, local authority housing schemes, HAP houses, council houses etc are occupied by groups of people (including lazy irish people too, this isnt a race thing) who are leeching from the system, who we don't want or need.


I'd have no problem with unlimited access for the former group and no access at all to anyone looking to move here to fit into the latter group.

Shakey_jake

Good if our cultures are mostly aligned

Bad if our cultures are not

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean like if the dish is the middle East and the spice is Jews from eastern Europe?

Or the dish is south Africa and the spice is the white descendents of Dutch and British settlers?

Well, like I noted it seems only White cultures need the "spice". It's never suggested for non White cultures, indeed fought against.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It worked out for Irish people even when they didn't do much to assimilate. Irish people are grand in the UK and America now. I often meet North English people through work and I think they have a better first Impression of an Irish person than someone from southern England. They often telle they have an Irish grandparent and how much they enjoyed their holiday in Ireland or they'd like to go to Ireland one day.

It can work out grand if the host nation forgets to be racist towards the I migrating cultures as the English did with Irish people. It remains to be seen if Irish people will be determined to see Multiculturalism as poor, dirty people who are here to cause crime and steal our jobs and our women. Or if we help them assimilate and treat them fairly - though we treat poor Irish people pretty badly in a lot of ways too.

Well it depends on a few things too. The US was a colony based on and needing immigrants. Secondly Irish people can "pass" as local far more easily than African, or Asian. Indeed that was one point of bitterness between African and Irish Americans in the 19th century, that the latter had an advantage out of the box over their darker brethren looking for employment.

RyanthePirate wrote: »

Well using your own logic Wibbs if its not a religious thing then I suppose you agree saying that Irish people are more likely to be paedophiles considering its no longer Catholics or clergy but a cultural thing.

So culturally Irish people have a higher likelihood of being paedophiles?

It certainly seems that for a time at least - between independence and the 90's - that something in Irish culture mixed with the byzantine protection and influence of the Catholic religion and its organisation did lead to a higher incidence of sexual abuse in Irish clergy. And they exported it too. If you look at the cases in the US for example too many are Irish names. Being Irish it's easy to forget that other mostly Catholic nations don't have "priests are kiddie fiddlers" as a meme to nearly the same extent.

KaneToad

Wibbs wrote: »

And pubescent girls. Though both have their background in cultural practice, the religion stuff is more of an overlay. EG Jews and Muslims circumcise boys, but Christians don't have to by religious decree. Why? Because the new Abrahamic faith was absorbed by the Classical world where it was seen as something only the primitives beyond the gates did, so it was dropped. Same for the food restrictions of the other two faiths. Even today, try separating an Italian from his pork foodstuffs. Good luck. I'll bring grapes to you in hospital.

I couldn't care less about what food restrictions apply to various faiths. I do have a problem with sexual assaults on children for cultural/religious reasons.

Rodney Bathgate

endacl wrote: »

Hard to imagine a dish that can’t be improved by adding a dash of spice.

Good thing.

Mayonnaise will do the job, thanks.

Eric Cartman

completedit wrote: »

I lived in Prague. Seems a multicultural city that does well. Huge Vietnamese population who seemed integrated. Big Russian population too and I've heard they can stick to themselves but I wasn't able to tell the difference. Then you have huge amounts of random immigrant groups and everyone gels together but it's all through English. You can live there and never utter a word of Czech. If English wasn't so dominant that would probably cause problems but Czechs are happy to adapt

https://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/empl_portal/SSRinEU/Your%20social%20security%20rights%20in%20Czech%20Republic_en.pdf

When are you entitled to unemployment benefits?
The Czech social insurance scheme provides earnings-related unemployment benefits for a maximum of five months (eight months for those aged 50-55, 11 months for those over 55). All Czech and EU citizens are eligible for this benefit, as long as they meet the following conditions:
 recipients must not be working or studying;
 they must be registered as a jobseeker with the Regional Labour Office and must
not meet the conditions for eligibility for old-age benefits;
 they must have 12 months of basic pension insurance in the past two years,
gained from being in employment or some other working activity (or from the substitute periods of employment – e.g. personal care of child).
Jobseekers who fail to comply with certain conditions (mainly cooperation with the Regional Labour Office) are suspended from the Labour Office register. They may register again after six months. They must also return all benefits that were wrongly paid.
Unemployment benefit is not paid as long as you are entitled to severance pay. Once severance pay comes to an end (e.g. after 3 months), unemployment benefits will be paid.

They don't have a giveaway welfare state which attracts the issues Western Europe faces.

steves2

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Allowing our EU friends in has proved to be a positive for Ireland, high employment rates, compatible culture, a lot of integration and very friendly people who put roots down and contribute to the community.

Some non EU migrants such as tech workers from the states and Asia work pretty well, although integration into our customs is pretty low among among the asian community but there are no real negatives associated with such.

migration from South America, Africa, the Middle East and some west asian nations (Pakistan etc..) has proven disastrous. High Unemployment, High welfare dependance, low education, high levels of criminality, almost no integration, remunerating a lot of money to their home countries and not spending in the local economy, complete cultural incompatibility and a lack of co-operation with gardai. We were promised their doctors and engineers, we got their equivalent to 'Anto from the flats'

Do you have any stats to back any of that up particularly the last paragraph? Did Irish people not renumerate a lot of money home from UK and elsewhere?

CageWager

There are plenty of arguments for and against multiculturalism but the one thing I’m positive about is that the Irish government’s approach of closing their eyes and pretending the negative stuff doesn’t exist for fear of be called racist is the biggest threat to us all.