What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

jmreire · 05-12-2020 11:19pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Not all Muslim majority countries no.

You might give us a hand here in understanding you bubblypop because its not clear...which countries exactly are you speaking about?? And which Muslims? Shiia/ Sunny/ Alawites???

seenitall · 05-12-2020 11:39pm

Sunni Muslims in Bosnia,( i.e. Bosniaks),for example. They are the result of the Turkish/Ottoman conquest of the parts of Balkans, and have been developing in a very secular, European-values manner throughout the subsequent centuries. Women working and equal to men, no headscarves, a small number of children, just completely European in cultural outlook and lifestyle; the only way you would know a person was Muslim is by their name; they would have been very mixed and mixing with the other two major nationalities in Bosnia.

The above has unfortunately been changing since the Saudi money and mosques have found their way into the Balkans as well.

The problem with Islam is cultural - where Islam is practiced in a benign and secular way, there is no problem. Where it starts aggresively ideologising and employing fire and brimstone discourse, Watch out.

jmreire · 06-12-2020 12:05am

seenitall wrote: »

Sunni Muslims in Bosnia,( i.e. Bosniaks),for example. They are the result of the Turkish/Ottoman conquest of the parts of Balkans, and have been developing in a very secular, European-values manner throughout the subsequent centuries. Women working and equal to men, no headscarves, a small number of children, just completely European in cultural outlook and lifestyle; the only way you would know a person was Muslim is by their name; they would have been very mixed and mixing with the other two major nationalities in Bosnia.

The above has unfortunately been changing since the Saudi money and mosques have found their way into the Balkans as well.

The problem with Islam is cultural - where Islam is practiced in a benign and secular way, there is no problem. Where it starts aggresively ideologising and employing fire and brimstone discourse, Watch out.

Yes, I'd agree with you there, I lived in that part of the world for quite awhile. Kosovo would be the same. Sure you will get the women ( especially older ones) wearing head scarfs etc, but no burkas, and the younger generation, same as anywhere else in Europe, fashion wise. No problem with alcohol. About pork, I'm not so sure, given that its the main menu all over the balkans, I'd say some do and some dont. Any restaurant ( Pectopah ) I was in always had Pork on the menu. A Bosnian Muslim friend of mine who I had not seen for quite a while but was in contact with again recently was telling me that he had sold his house in Sarajevo and was moving his family to Split in Croatia purely because he could see trouble brewing with Saudi sponsored hardliners stirring up trouble with radical Islam ( They had originally come to "protect" Muslims during the war and never went home) He was getting out before it gets worse there. But this is how Islam spreads,,the peacefull version first, which gradually hardens as ther Nrs and influence increases.

irishproduce · 06-12-2020 12:51am

Deleted User wrote: »

Nah. Some people are doing great work, and helping those in need. Let's not put everyone who works in an NGO into the same boat. Some people do volunteer with the best of intentions. I did volunteer work a decade ago, and met many selfless people, working in foreign countries, doing wonderful work.

The problem is that the administrators will be interested in greater funding, and that means broadening the scope of their operations. NGO's operate under a business premise, so, in spite of being non-profit, they'll still be interested in sustainability. And that leads them to questionable decisions, and agendas.

It's politics. The guys on the ground who volunteer to help and have no skin in the game, are the reasons why NGOs first become so popular. They met a need. Unfortunately, as time goes by, any organisation becomes inward looking and selfish to it's own needs. It's the same with any organisation, be it, Human Rights Watch, the UN, or an NGO.

I feel that NGO's should be broken up regularly after a period of time, and nobody should be able to make a career out of them. Volunteers, fine, but with limited opportunities to operate within the organisations.

Then those volunteering should walk away. Show it up for what it is

06-12-2020 1:15am

bubblypop wrote: »

This says nothing?

So, your point about going to Pride in Muslim countries means nothing?

Seriously? Why do you bother posting at all then?

06-12-2020 1:16am

irishproduce wrote: »

Then those volunteering should walk away. Show it up for what it is

You missed the point completely. Well done, since it was a rather obvious one.

Here's a different point. Not all NGO's are aimed at immigration.

seenitall · 06-12-2020 1:18am

What is happening in Bosnia now is very interesting. Young men from Morocco, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Iraq (AKA ‘migrants’) with no evidenced identities have been absolutely swarming the place, selling packets of tissues at the traffic junctions, and otherwise making nuisances of themselves, begging, thieving, breaking into unoccupied houses and eventually setting them on fire; and stabbing each other, as well as a rare random citizen, too. It’s a complete free for all, as the country is fragile, ethnically divided, and with useless, corrupt leadership. Laws are not being applied when crimes are committed by these migrants, as there is no political will to do so. They are all being shunted to the Bosniak kantons from the other two regions, but their co-religionists who live there are heartily sick of these newcomers’ lawlessness and chaos. From there they are trying, and succeeding after long time delays, to move westwards through Croatia, Slovenia and beyond, to the lucky western European nations that are these young men’s target destinations.

The long time delays are due to the fact that the Croatian border forces are repelling them at the borders in a none-too-subtle manner (Croatia hopes to enter Schengen and is desperate to show to Brussels that it is up to the task of defending a Schengen border) so there is a natural bottleneck being created anew all the time in western Bosnia. Still, this border is almost impossible to properly police by Croatia in a civilised, or, shall we say, non-minefield manner, as it is very long. These nameless young men are entering EU every day. But I do feel for the Bosniaks, especially. Their peace and security have been sold off to the IOM by their leadership, as far as I can understand.

jmreire · 06-12-2020 1:42am

seenitall wrote: »

What is happening in Bosnia now is very interesting. Young men from Morocco, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Iraq (AKA ‘migrants’) with no evidenced identities have been absolutely swarming the place, selling packets of tissues at the traffic junctions, and otherwise making nuisances of themselves, begging, thieving, breaking into unoccupied houses and eventually setting them on fire; and stabbing each other, as well as a rare random citizen, too. It’s a complete free for all, as the country is fragile, ethnically divided, and with useless, corrupt leadership. Laws are not being applied when crimes are committed by these migrants, as there is no political will to do so. They are all being shunted to the Bosniak kantons from the other two regions, but their co-religionists who live there are heartily sick of these newcomers’ lawlessness and chaos. From there they are trying, and succeeding after long time delays, to move westwards through Croatia, Slovenia and beyond, to the lucky western European nations that are these young men’s target destinations.

The long time delays are due to the fact that the Croatian border forces are repelling them at the borders in a none-too-subtle manner (Croatia hopes to enter Schengen and is desperate to show to Brussels that it is up to the task of defending a Schengen border) so there is a natural bottleneck being created anew all the time in western Bosnia. Still, this border is almost impossible to properly police by Croatia in a civilised, or, shall we say, non-minefield manner, as it is very long. These nameless young men are entering EU every day. But I do feel for the Bosniaks, especially. Their peace and security have been sold off to the IOM by their leadership, as far as I can understand.

Not looking good at all for Bosnia.. as if they have not suffered enough there already. They don't get up to quite the same tricks in Serbia though, patience is not one of the Serbs strong points, and I imagine that Albania / Kosovo would not be too accommodating either, the Besa is still very strong there. When Milosevic was ethnically cleansing Kosovar Albanian's, on the Albanian side, they were accepted and looked after in their thousands, without question. Neither are the Albanian mafia to be trifled with, so I dont think that the immigrants would cause too much trouble there either.So that leaves Bosnia carrying the can.

V8 Interceptor · 06-12-2020 10:48am

Deleted User wrote: »

you made the statement about going to Pride parades in Muslim countries. I'm bisexual.

I'd still love to hear about going to pride parades in Muslim countries.

WTF?

Gervais08 · 06-12-2020 11:01am

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

I'd still love to hear about going to pride parades in Muslim countries.

WTF?

I’m willing to bet that never ever happened!!! The nearest you’d get would be Turkey pre-Erdogan.

V8 Interceptor · 06-12-2020 11:24am

bubblypop wrote: »

Not all Muslim majority countries no.

Ah well that's not what you said

biko · 06-12-2020 11:29am

The only MENA country with a legal and proper LGBT parade is Israel.

Since 2017 in Lebanon there is Beirut Pride but it's an "illegal" non-sanctioned event.
There are small pockets of gay events in other countries like Tunisia, Jordan etc. but to be gay in any Arab country is punishable by death or prison.

Gervais08 · 06-12-2020 11:43am

biko wrote: »

The only MENA country with a legal and proper LGBT parade is Israel.

Since 2017 in Lebanon there is Beirut Pride but it's an "illegal" non-sanctioned event.
There are small pockets of gay events in other countries like Tunisia, Jordan etc. but to be gay in any Arab country is punishable by death or prison.

You really wouldn’t think that needed to be said would you and yet we’re expected to believe some posters attended Brunei Pride!!!

06-12-2020 11:50am

Gervais08 wrote: »

I’m willing to bet that never ever happened!!! The nearest you’d get would be Turkey pre-Erdogan.

Bet all you want. I was at more then one while living in a Muslim country. You do realise that not all Muslim majority countries are strict Islamic states right?

Gervais08 · 06-12-2020 11:53am

bubblypop wrote: »

Bet all you want. I was at more then one while living in a Muslim country. You do realise that not all Muslim majority countries are strict Islamic states right?

Lift with your back when lifting heavy goalposts, you’ll put something out.

Have you still not managed to say the country ? Hilarious.

06-12-2020 12:00pm

Gervais08 wrote: »

Lift with your back when lifting heavy goalposts, you’ll put something out.

Have you still not managed to say the country ? Hilarious.

I'm not sure why I have to out myself on here to keep random strangers happy

Gervais08 · 06-12-2020 12:04pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not sure why I have to out myself on here to keep random strangers happy

No one is asking you to “out yourself” ffs!!! You’re a screen name, no one knows who you are.

But you countered a - wholly correct - point that the Muslim community are vehemently anti-gay with tales of many attendances at Bahrain or Kuala Lumpur Pride, and will not (more likely cannot) back it up.

06-12-2020 12:15pm

I honestly don't care if there was Pride events in Muslim countries, because it does nothing to counter what I said. Having a parade doesn't show that Homosexuals are accepted, or even tolerated within a society. .. and even if it did, they would be the extreme minority of Islamic nations, and likely to have changed to be more traditional in the time since.

I suspect he's referring to Turkey.

Gervais08 · 06-12-2020 12:24pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I honestly don't care if there was Pride events in Muslim countries, because it does nothing to counter what I said. Having a parade doesn't show that Homosexuals are accepted, or even tolerated within a society. .. and even if it did, they would be the extreme minority of Islamic nations, and likely to have changed to be more traditional in the time since.

I suspect he's referring to Turkey.

Iran pre-79 was meant to be as gay friendly as you’ll get.

Not so much now tbh!

You’re right - takes nothing away from the salient point, that being said apparently the Israeli one around the time they hosted Eurovision was some do!!

Hardly “majority Islam” tho.

biko · 06-12-2020 12:51pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not sure why I have to out myself on here to keep random strangers happy

You claim to participate in something but facts we have presented say the opposite.
You haven't said what Muslim countries or years. Perhaps if you elaborate more it will help.

I realise we are far from the topic of the thread but it's a part of our problem with multiculturalism when our opposition invites people that are in direct conflict with our modern values.
Why should I be ok with people coming here that are vehemently opposed to free speech, or equal, or even basic human rights for women and gays?
Why would any sane person think that is a good idea?

TomTomTim · 06-12-2020 12:54pm

biko wrote: »

You claim to participate in something but facts we have presented say the opposite.
You haven't said what Muslim countries or years. Perhaps if you elaborate more it will help.

They probably went to one in London :pac:

V8 Interceptor · 06-12-2020 1:48pm

biko wrote: »

The only MENA country with a legal and proper LGBT parade is Israel.

Since 2017 in Lebanon there is Beirut Pride but it's an "illegal" non-sanctioned event.
There are small pockets of gay events in other countries like Tunisia, Jordan etc. but to be gay in any Arab country is punishable by death or prison.

Was that always the case in the Leb or is it since the big migration of Muslims?

ExMachina1000 · 06-12-2020 5:22pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/sponsor-a-star-5280616-Nov2020/

They keep on pushing and pushing. Comments closed of course

ikeano29 · 06-12-2020 5:30pm

Where is Elizabeth from?

ExMachina1000 · 06-12-2020 5:38pm

ikeano29 wrote: »

Where is Elizabeth from?

No indication of origin
Thankfully a forever home was found in 7 months and a college place studying "social juice " has been earned.

Gervais08 · 06-12-2020 5:38pm

ikeano29 wrote: »

Where is Elizabeth from?

I’m guessing by her age probably born here but her mother’s status is to be determined I’d say.

Eric Cartman · 06-12-2020 5:51pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

No indication of origin
Thankfully a forever home was found in 7 months and a college place studying "social juice " has been earned.

imagine you bring yourself and your children from some poor country in Africa, get through the hoops to get to a wealthy country (legally or illegally , doesn't state) you get the free council house, your daughters off to college.... and you let her choose the one subject that either results in the same level of abject poverty you were in or at best she gets a job at an NGO as a diversity hire because those racist talking shops love exploiting minorities for PR likes.

ExMachina1000 · 06-12-2020 7:43pm

Denmark have fantastic immigration laws.
They are restricting immigration to preserve their culture.
Seems like a no brainer

The reporter speaking to a Danish politician :
Isnt everyone born in Denmark a Dane?
The response: No the Danes are an ethnic group alongside the Swedes and Norwegians.
"They (immigrants) will never be Danish"

Alongside that Denmark passed over 100 new laws regarding migration and protection of Danish culture.
Among them:
Offering money to migrants to leave
Children of migrants put through Danish cultural classes
A Burqa ban
And migrant heavy areas are designated as ghettos and earmarked for bulldozing

statesaver · 06-12-2020 7:51pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

No indication of origin
Thankfully a forever home was found in 7 months and a college place studying "social juice " has been earned.

God praising believer as well I see, thought Ireland didn't like that shiit anymore.

TomTomTim · 07-12-2020 9:49am

Absolutely ridiculous.

https://twitter.com/obraonain/status/1335548277178195968

Ireland, on the topic of immigration, is a land of laws on paper only. Our masters seem to think it's absolutely fine to ignore our laws and just hand out citizenship to people who clearly wouldn't qualify under normal standards.