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Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

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    #1322
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,458 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    blanch152 wrote: »
    For a person with a bad knee that doesn't qualify as disabled, a bike isn't an option.

    You’d be surprised, how other people with bad knees cope


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    #1323
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    polesheep wrote: »
    Honestly, we must be looking at different parts of the Park. I'm in it twice a day, every day. The car parks near the Furry Glen are almost always full and it leads to parking on the grass. Although the two car parks near the football pitches are almost always empty. Obviously not such a popular part of the park.

    We must be!
    There's three car parks near each other, just off chesterfield ave. I haven't seen them full since covid started. Two beside the pitches, never full either!


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    #1324
    Wilbury Twist
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Wilbury Twist


    If it was my decision to make I would actually ban all cars from the Phoenix Park altogether and put in a Lisbon type period style electric tram passenger service on the current main road through the park from Castleknock entrance straight down to the exit/entry point at the city entrance to the Park just above from Heuston station that could be used by commuters and tourists alike, running high frequency in both directions.

    Get the noise and pollution of cars out of the Park!

    I would rather a period style tram service in keeping with the the ambiance of the Park, not a Luas type design and I would keep buses/taxi's/cars/rickshaws out of the Phoenix Park.

    Walk, cycle or get the tram is the way to go!


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    #1325
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    If theres no realism here a better solution will never be found. Period trams and complete traffic bans is just nonsense.

    The Park is a busy public venue, a national facility fully integrated as the heart of Dublin, not a walled garden stuck in 1890.

    The unavoidable fact is that 3,000 people work within its walls, in the many institutions and attractions that exist there. Private cars and delivery trucks and coaches and tour buses and Garda and Army vehicles and all that WILL remain part of the life of the Park, so lets focus on reducing their impact, prioritising safety and healthy enjoyment for all, not talking BS about fantasy situations.


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    #1326
    BlazingSaddler
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭BlazingSaddler


    I would love to see the recreational cycling possibilities in the Park improved. Now Chesterfield is basically a no go zone for the casual / family (non commuting) cyclist the options are currently very limited.


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    #1327
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Really needs some white rafting facilities.


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    #1328
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Really needs some white rafting facilities.

    :)
    Would be great! Did ya ever see the guys surfing in the English Garden park, Munich?


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    #1329
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bubblypop wrote: »
    :)
    Would be great! Did ya ever see the guys surfing in the English Garden park, Munich?

    Hard to see much out the bottom of a beer glass...


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    #1330
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    BlazingSaddler wrote: »
    I would love to see the recreational cycling possibilities in the Park improved. Now Chesterfield is basically a no go zone for the casual / family (non commuting) cyclist the options are currently very limited.

    You think removing carparking and assigning a two metre corridor, each way, along 4.5kms to bicycles, makes it a "no go zone"?


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    #1331
    BlazingSaddler
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭BlazingSaddler


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    You think removing carparking and assigning a two metre corridor, each way, along 4.5kms to bicycles, makes it a "no go zone"?

    I’m not going to take a five year old on the new Chesterfield Ave cycle lane thank you very much. The previous cycle lanes on the path are dedicated now for pedestrians only, so yes it’s a no go zone for family cyclists


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    #1332
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    There's path/cycle lane on the north road. Furze Road is partially closed off. Military road is closed off, Khyber road is closed off. Furry Glen is closed off. There is a path around the Football pitches.

    TBH Once you are on a bike with treaded tyres any grassy area or trail is open you. Kids love that stuff.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj6yzO0Zf3k&ab_channel=AllMyRides
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0s1REYDbTA&ab_channel=AllMyRides

    All very disjointed, no real loop and poorly planned.


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    #1333
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    Nothing like a bit of bad weather to clear the park. I had the entire 15 Acres to myself this afternoon.


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    #1334
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    The off path walking trails are very muddy now. More people out walking has turned them all to mud. No sign of the bark that was on them last year.


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    #1335
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    Cars have absolutely destroyed the grass verges on most of the side roads of the park through parking and manoeuvring. A complete mud bath and looks awful. Such a shame. There needs to be clear designated parking areas and a strict no parking rule everywhere else.


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    #1336
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Not sure what to call them. In the areas I was in the trail is too muddy so people have been walking across the grass and there's new muddy paths walked into those as well. It's like a pitch that's been over played in the wet. We got half way down one route and gave up. I wasn't near any parking to notice cars.

    Its looking like the opw doesn't have the resources for this much regular activity in the park. The lack of parking is just an added pressure. Maybe it would be worse if there was more parking. Maybe more people would stick to the hard paths on the ave. Who knows.


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    #1337
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    If the parking had been left on Chesterfield Avenue and the cycling returned to the cycle lanes that were already there, that wouldn't be a problem.

    Also, while I don't agree with anyone causing damage to any area just to park a car, the often high-handed attitude of OPW trying to run the place like a private demesne is not helping anyone. This is, above all, a national park belonging to the people.


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    #1338
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,964 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Those cycle lanes were only ever really cycle lanes when the Park was devoid of pedestrians.


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    #1339
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Stark wrote: »
    Those cycle lanes were only ever really cycle lanes when the Park was devoid of pedestrians.

    I rarely had an issue on them when commuting. Really only had issues on very nice days. So I'd just choose a different route. But I guess if you are going with the family its most likely going to on a nice day.

    But tbh OPW did very little for cyclists over the years. As little as possible.


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    #1340
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,889 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    beauf wrote: »
    I rarely had an issue on them when commuting. Really only had issues on very nice days. So I'd just choose a different route. But I guess if you are going with the family its most likely going to on a nice day.

    But tbh OPW did very little for cyclists over the years. As little as possible.

    Much like the road is for cars, the cycle path serves a dual purpose, a commuting route to the city centre and a recreational route for park users, it's not particularly great at either on a busy summers day.


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    #1341
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    If the parking had been left on Chesterfield Avenue and the cycling returned to the cycle lanes that were already there, that wouldn't be a problem.

    Also, while I don't agree with anyone causing damage to any area just to park a car, the often high-handed attitude of OPW trying to run the place like a private demesne is not helping anyone. This is, above all, a national park belonging to the people.

    'wouldn't be a problem' is spoken from the POV of someone who never cycle's there presumably?

    Yes indeed, it is a national park, not a car park or N road.


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    #1342
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I do indeed cycle there, frequently, have done for 13 years.


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    #1343
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I do indeed cycle there, frequently, have done for 13 years.

    So did you not notice the frequent incursions of pedestrians on those cycle lanes? This has resulted in the death of one cyclist, just in case you're having trouble identifying cyclists.


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    #1344
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I've had enough of your smart arse. Make a point, or don't.

    The specific circumstances of the death of Mr Tully off his bike in 2016 have been well rehearsed. Changes requested by the Guards, raised by the specifics of the incident to improve safety, were not carried out.

    Its 5 years since that incident. How many cycle movements do you suspect have taken place in the Park since then? Between half and one million I would think, how many of them were killed?

    Will the OPWs preferred solutions ensure no one is ever killed on foot or on a bike or in a car again? Of course they won't.


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    #1345
    miamee
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    This might be of interest to people on this thread, I got this email yesterday from Leo Varadkar's office:
    Dear Constituent,

    As you may know, the Office of Public Works (OPW) which manages the Phoenix and Farmleigh on behalf of us all, has launched a public consultation about the Phoenix Park, examining issues like through traffic, parking, pedestrian facilities, bus services and cycling facilities. If the right choices are made, the amenity of the Park will be improved for all of us who enjoy it. If the wrong decisions are made, it could result in a worsening of the traffic situation in Castleknock and the Navan Road area as well as spill over parking in our estates. So, it is important that we as a community are involved from the outset.

    Due to the pandemic, the public consultation is being run entirely on-line: http://phoenixpark.virtualeventspace.io/ It runs until March 12th.

    My colleague, Senator Emer Currie is organising an on-line public meeting to brief you on the key issues. It will be held on Monday 15th at 7pm. You can register by e-mailing her at emer.currie@oir.ie . I shall also attend, subject to Government business.

    Among the proposals being considered are:

    Expanding and upgrading cycle links and networks in and around the Park
    Upgrading of footpaths
    Piloting - making the North Road, Knockmaroon Road and Upper Glen Road into cul-de-sacs for 9 months later this year
    A bus connecting Heuston Station to Broombridge Luas and train station through the Park but no connection to Castleknock or Blanchardstown
    · Reducing the speed limit to 30kmph

    · Cabra Gate open to bus only

    Ashtown Gate to be entry only
    It’s hard to visualise it without viewing the presentation which Senator Currie has prepared. Following the meeting, we will ensure that the Minister for the OPW, Patrick O’Donovan is fully appraised of the views of our communities in Dublin 15 and Dublin 7.

    If you do not wish to receive future emails please let me know and I will take you off my circulation list.

    Best Regards,

    Leo Varadkar TD

    Tánaiste

    Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment


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    #1346
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Can't help seeing this as being biased and leading people to think that making the park safer for pedestrians & cyclists is the wrong choice...
    If the wrong decisions are made, it could result in a worsening of the traffic situation in Castleknock and the Navan Road area as well as spill over parking in our estates.


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    #1347
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Can't help seeing this as being biased and leading people to think that making the park safer for pedestrians & cyclists is the wrong choice...

    It's a legitimate concern though. If it's done wrong we could see the housing estates overrun with people trying to park their cars to use the park. This happened at times when they closed the sidegates. It needs to be done sensibly.

    Another issue I see in the future is increased through traffic in the park as a result of busconnects proposals. Classic case of a positive thing in isolation having unintended knock on consequences.


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    #1348
    VonLuck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    It's a legitimate concern though. If it's done wrong we could see the housing estates overrun with people trying to park their cars to use the park. This happened at times when they closed the sidegates. It needs to be done sensibly.

    Another issue I see in the future is increased through traffic in the park as a result of busconnects proposals. Classic case of a positive thing in isolation having unintended knock on consequences.

    It could have been phrased in a less biased way. Why not say "if the right choices are made, the amenity of the Park will be improved for all of us who enjoy it as well as managing the traffic situation in the area".

    It also suggests that making any decision could lead to issues. Whilst there may be decisions that will negatively impact some, it may lead people to think it's better to leave things as they are.


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    #1349
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    VonLuck wrote: »
    It could have been phrased in a less biased way. Why not say "if the right choices are made, the amenity of the Park will be improved for all of us who enjoy it as well as managing the traffic situation in the area".

    It also suggests that making any decision could lead to issues. Whilst there may be decisions that will negatively impact some, it may lead people to think it's better to leave things as they are.

    He did say that. You chose to see the potential negative side of it. I saw the potential positive side from it.
    If the right choices are made, the amenity of the Park will be improved for all of us who enjoy it.

    Bottom line is the people will decide this so the more that get involved the better.


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    #1350
    VonLuck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    He did say that. You chose to see the potential negative side of it. I saw the potential positive side from it.



    Bottom line is the people will decide this so the more that get involved the better.

    I didn't choose to see the negative, but others might. My point is, why point out possible negative outcomes for a positive opportunity?


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    #1351
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    VonLuck wrote: »
    I didn't choose to see the negative, but others might. My point is, why point out possible negative outcomes for a positive opportunity?

    You are assuming its positive for everyone, perhaps even the majority.

    But from past experience we know similar changes have always been, eventually, overturned. Which suggests that it doesn't suit everyone, perhaps even the majority. Because they are able to bring so much pressure to get it overturned.

    A politician will be very aware of the this.


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