Provided chargers at shops

Black_Knight

I certainly won't be casually charging at the esb AC points once fees come in, which is great for those who need them, but I only see these ac points as a destination charger now. When needs must. The locations don't seem to have much foresight, as mentioned. Time will tell, but I can only imagine them being very quiet

AndyBoBandy

MJohnston wrote: »

Nah, if they just made the AC chargers free, like has been suggested, the value trade would be well worth it.

Or offer a premium service, and earn money from it.

Every Tesco carpark would be a forecourt, and a source of revenue.

MJohnston

liamog wrote: »

Then expand on it, because I can't think of the use case where it makes sense and your not elaborating the one that you think does.

I honestly can't think of a valid use case for charging an EV at 11kW for 45 mins whilst doing a grocery shop. It's the perfect balance of a location that you don't spend enough time at for AC charging to make sense, and a destination that you tend not to travel too far too.

1. Some Tescos being supplied with these chargers are on major intercity routes, so it provides an added backup to intercity travel (eg. Kinnegad, Naas, Mitchelstown, etc).
2. Some people will prefer to use their EVs without any range anxiety, which means being able to charge anywhere you can go, no matter the cost.
3. Provides more options for people without the ability to charge at home (vital as we proceed towards deeper EV adoption).
4. Increases the overall network in less-served locations.
5. Vital for purchasers of second/third-hand EVs with much lower ranges.

If Tesco were to work in some incentive, for example like the €3 discount they give you for using the Dundrum car park, then it'd open up the utility significantly. Let's see!

liamog

Sorry, perhaps I should of been clearer I was asking you to expand on why an AC charger at a supermarket is a good idea. The list you've given looks more suited as to why a 50kW DC chargers is ideal for them.

Kramer

liamog wrote: »

I was asking you to expand on why an AC charger at a supermarket is a good idea.

As someone possibly mentioned already, they're not :P.
Greenwashing.

I'm all for Lidl or whoever, privately paying for these "green" charge points, especially if offering the facility to customers, as a benefit or reward for shopping with them, but ECars?

Just how much of my tax is going to subsidise these installs, on Tesco property?
I'll be paying, not only to supply, install & use them, but have to park at & frequent Tesco now too?

That's it - I'm instructing Mrs. Kramer to cease immediately, her weekly shop at Dunnes & switch all future grocery shopping to Tesco, for the free paid for, charging :pac:.

MJohnston

liamog wrote: »

Sorry, perhaps I should of been clearer I was asking you to expand on why an AC charger at a supermarket is a good idea. The list you've given looks more suited as to why a 50kW DC chargers is ideal for them.

That’s a troll response, and you know it. The cost of a DC charger is a magnitude greater than AC chargers.

As a mod, I thought you’d want to go by the number one rule of boards—don’t be a dick.

Sheep Shagger

Gumbo wrote: »

Been like that since the first weekend. They made the mistake over the first week to hand out fobs.

Security gave me a fob last week to start the charger (I handed it in as I entered the store.

What's the bet they don't have this issue in other countries 🙄

Kramer

MJohnston wrote: »

The cost of a DC charger is a magnitude greater than AC chargers.

I think some BEVs come with their own on-board chargers .

Just because others have contrary opinions to you, doesn't mean they're trolls. Most see ECars using public funding to install SCPs at Tesco as........well, not a great idea.

I'm in that camp too .

Decathlon, great!
Lidl - fantastic!
Tesla destination charge points at hotels - yesss! More please!

liamog

MJohnston wrote: »

That’s a troll response, and you know it. The cost of a DC charger is a magnitude greater than AC chargers.

I'm actually trying to get to the bottom of why you think AC charging for 45 mins and gaining 30 to 50km of range is in anyway useful. The reasons you provided do not address my question.

45 mins of AC charging at 11kW doesn't help with any of the reasons you listed. I wasn't sure if you'd misunderstood my question.

1. Major Intercity Routes
- If your on an intercity journey you need to fill the battery and move on, not add 20% whilst buying groceries.

2. Range Anxiety
- not really sure how a charger that doesn't help you charge, helps with range anxiety.

3. Options for people who can't charge at home
- if you can't charge at home, adding 30km to 50km whilst doing your weekly shop isn't going to make a difference

4. Increase the network
- it increases the part of the network that isn't useful, hence my point that its a waste and is greenwashing by Tesco.

5. Vital for 2nd hand EVs with low range
- these are going to gain even less range during a weekly shop, as someone who drives a 2014 EV with a 16kWh usable battery, the availability of a slow charger has zero impact on my plans. I travel extensively around the Dublin area, knowing that there are plenty of DC chargers that I can do a 20 min top up on, I wouldn't expect to go to Rathmines and be stuck for 4 hours as that's the best Tesco could provide.

Your only argument that makes any sense for Tesco funding these is that they are cheaper than a DC charger, so back to my greenwashing accusation.

liamog

If Tesco were funding the installation of the 44kW DC Lite chargers that eCars have been rolling out in assorted locations, then it would actually help the reasons you listed, and be far more useful to the majority of EV drivers.

MJohnston

liamog wrote: »

I'm actually trying to get to the bottom of why you think AC charging for 45 mins and gaining 30 to 50km of range is in anyway useful. The reasons you provided do not address my question.

I’m sorry but this is just moving the goalposts stuff. Now this is suddenly what it’s about? Now it’s only 30-50km range? Where did that come from?

Let’s go back to the original question—are these chargers useful? 47 minutes may be an average time spent in a supermarket, but that doesn’t prevent people from staying longer, which of course increases the utility value of the chargers.

45 mins of AC charging at 11kW doesn't help with any of the reasons you listed. I wasn't sure if you'd misunderstood my question.

Come on, don’t gaslight it here, you made a cheeky comment about me instead ‘describing why DC chargers would be suitable’. Unconstructive, but grand.

1. Major Intercity Routes
- If your on an intercity journey you need to fill the battery and move on, not add 20% whilst buying groceries.

Why are you focusing on groceries? Can’t these chargers be useful for people just stopping for a charge? Have you been in the bigger Tesco Extras recently? They’re not just a Tesco, there’s usually at least a full Costa cafe, there’s toilets, and places like the Naas Extra have a bunch of other shops and restaurants nearby. Tesco stores are rarely standalone things, so there’s no reason you’d need to spend your entire time at the Tesco while charging.

2. Range Anxiety
- not really sure how a charger that doesn't help you charge, helps with range anxiety.

I’ve no idea what this means, unless you’re just being snarky again?

3. Options for people who can't charge at home
- if you can't charge at home, adding 30km to 50km whilst doing your weekly shop isn't going to make a difference

Again, you’re putting the 30-50km limit on this. I’d note that what I originally mentioned was approx 60km in 47 mins at 11kW but you seem to want to minimise that for whatever reason.

If someone has to rely on the public charging network, they’ll have more options to do so, that’s my point.

4. Increase the network
- it increases the part of the network that isn't useful, hence my point that its a waste and is greenwashing by Tesco.

Now perhaps you can explain—wasteful how exactly?

Your only argument that makes any sense for Tesco funding these is that they are cheaper than a DC charger, so back to my greenwashing accusation.

It’s only this so-called “greenwashing” (whatever that is, exactly) when you limit the conditions of utility like you have done above.

Or you could accept that there’s an increasing diversity of EV owners, and they’re going to be using the public network *very* differently from early adopters.

These chargers will be useful for some people. Not you, I get it. But some people.

Kramer

MJohnston wrote: »

These chargers will be useful for some people. Not you, I get it. But some people.

No they won't. They'll be completely unused after the initial novelty for new EV owners wears off.
They will be, in effect, the chocolate teapots of chargers charge points.

I know, I know, my opinion & Liam's, unkel's etc. are wrong, we're trolling/gaslighting etc.
Do you work for Tesco?

It was thought Liam & another lad here worked for the ESB, unkel for Hyundai (he since moved to Tesla, apparently) & Mad_Lad was with BMW, but maybe we have some Tesco staff here now too?

.

liamog

I think you came up with the use case of an 11kW car charging for 47 mins as that was the length of stay at the superstore, I've rounded to 45 minutes.
A I3 with the 11kW upgrade will gain 57km/h at an 22kW charger, an Ioniq with it's 7.2 on board charger will gain 38km/h. I've taken the numbers from ev-database.org as an independent source. So that put's a 45 minute charge (time to do your shop) as somewhere between 43km and 28km of range. My estimate of adding in the ballpark of 30km to 50km during the weekly shop is based on that data.

Greenwashing is when a company spends money on a measure that appears to be a green move, but isn't really useful but appears to look green.

I'm not actively monitoring the AC chargers, but I've been to the Tesco's in Roselawn and Swords in the past week, both times the chargers have had a single PHEV plugged in, whilst there are plenty of BEVs in the car park. I'm sure there is some obscure use case where AC charging during your grocery shopping (which is what we're talking about when discussing Tesco funding chargers) makes sense.

This all started because you were amazed that I couldn't see how they were useful for some people, I still don't see it.
If more cars came with 22kW onboard chargers, then they would make more sense, but the numbers just aren't there. Zoe's and dual charger Tesla's are about the only cars that really benefit from these installations. I'm a huge proponent of supermarket car park charging, but it needs to be scaled properly to be useful. Other wise it's just a waste (and by that, I mean money spent for very low overall benefit).

liamog

Kramer wrote: »

I know, I know, my opinion & Liam's, unkel's etc. are wrong, we're trolling/gaslighting etc.

No, you've got it wrong, I secretly work for the EU, my goal is to push socialised companies and make sure the Irish lot stop looking at the English for inspiration :cool:!

Black_Knight

I've yet to hear a compelling reason for the tesco chargers. I can only agree with Liam on this one.

There are 4 charge points I'd use:
Fast ones (when I'm on the move and need to charge)
Slow ones (when I get to my destination and require charge to make it home/continue my return leg to a fcp)
Home
Free ones

I get some free juice when I do my Lidl shop, but if that was at 25c/kWh there's no hope I'd use it. Nor would it e330 who's there every Sunday morning before they open.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Then expand on it, because I can't think of the use case where it makes sense and your not elaborating the one that you think does.

I honestly can't think of a valid use case for charging an EV at 11kW for 45 mins whilst doing a grocery shop. It's the perfect balance of a location that you don't spend enough time at for AC charging to make sense, and a destination that you tend not to travel too far too.

My charging manifesto is pretty straightforward. Fast Chargers (~50kW) at Supermarkets, Ultra Chargers (~150kW to 350kW) on motorways and interurbans, and AC chargers at major shopping centers with entertainment and dining facilities, a pretty straightforward process of aligning charging times with visit times, or doing it quickly because you are in the middle of a journey.

Nothing needed to be added to the above, I'm 100% on board with your manifesto! Now we need to get you a job in ecars or easygo!!

MJohnston

Kramer wrote: »

No they won't. They'll be completely unused after the initial novelty for new EV owners wears off.
They will be, in effect, the chocolate teapots of chargers charge points.

I know, I know, my opinion & Liam's, unkel's etc. are wrong, we're trolling/gaslighting etc.
Do you work for Tesco?

It was thought Liam & another lad here worked for the ESB, unkel for Hyundai (he since moved to Tesla, apparently) & Mad_Lad was with BMW, but maybe we have some Tesco staff here now too?

.

I don’t work for Tesco, and am unlikely to ever use these chargers (although I’m lucky that my local Tesco, Park Pointe, has a FCP at it) except perhaps on a trip to the west where charging options are much more limited.

But I’m also cognisant that we’re moving into a very different phase of EV ownership, and we may even see more 22kW AC capable EVs, and that requires a broader attitude towards charging point placement. So I can’t get on board with the insular attitude that they’re useless for everyone. That’s just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.

Gumbo

Decathlon was short lived.

Went there today. Staff can’t find the fob and security has no idea where it’s gone.

Should have just stuck with the Easy Go registration.

ELM327

Yeah that was one of the silliest things yet.

unkel

Pretty pathetic situation. The idiots who decided on the system of handing out the fobs should be reprimanded by higher management.

Sheep Shagger

unkel wrote: »

Pretty pathetic situation. The idiots who decided on the system of handing out the fobs should be reprimanded by higher management.

Let's not forget the people who decided they needed the fobs more than others and stole them.

Felexicon

unkel wrote: »

Pretty pathetic situation. The idiots who decided on the system of handing out the fobs should be reprimanded by higher management.

Should have made people pay a deposit or allow activation by pin code

unkel

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Let's not forget the people who decided they needed the fobs more than others and stole them.

Yeah sure but people are bad bastards. The naivety of thinking 100% of the people borrowing the dongle will be nice and good people (like me ) who will bring the dongle straight back is baffling.

They should have just made them freevend like any other shop with chargers. And if they are a bit mean, then they could switch them off outside of the shop's opening hours. And if they are really mean / strict, they could have a bulky security guard patrolling them telling them "customers only" and threatening to clamp their car if people weren't heading straight into Decathlon after plugging in

Sheep Shagger

unkel wrote: »

Yeah sure but people are bad bastards. The naivety of thinking 100% of the people borrowing the dongle will be nice and good people (like me ) who will bring the dongle straight back is baffling.

They should have just made them freevend like any other shop with chargers. And if they are a bit mean, then they could switch them off outside of the shop's opening hours. And if they are really mean / strict, they could have a bulky security guard patrolling them telling them "customers only" and threatening to clamp their car if people weren't heading straight into Decathlon after plugging in

Agreed, I was hood law abiding citizen last week and returned the gob as we entered the shop after plugging the car in.

I wonder if Decathlon have this problem in other branches around Europe?

innrain

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

I wonder if Decathlon have this problem in other branches around Europe?

By charging for charging


NL https://www.plugshare.com/location/253902 35c AC 50c DC /KWh
HU https://www.plugshare.com/location/195381 some pricing structure DC approx 25c KWh
B https://www.plugshare.com/location/138223 DC 35c/KWh + 20c/min

DC because it makes sense.

miamee

Fob back in use last night at Decathlon according to OH.

Gumbo

miamee wrote: »

Fob back in use last night at Decathlon according to OH.

Someone posted the same info on the FB group today.
Hopefully they look after it

unkel

Decathlon now usable through the Easygo app. No longer any need for a dongle

Gumbo

unkel wrote: »

Decathlon now usable through the Easygo app. No longer any need for a dongle

At need for a specific registration or just swipe your own easygo fob?

unkel

My fob doesn't work, so I just use the app to start the charge. I am obviously logged into my Easygo account to while doing that!

Not all of the charge points are working BTW, so check the app first before you park and hook up. Unlike me, I had to move