Provided chargers at shops

Busman Paddy Lasty

Cost of €314.29 over €21.41 (€292.88) is a large sum if you have 10 sites for example. Monthly PSO and Distribution Levies of €2,928.80 just for having DC 50kW vs AC 44kW* on 10 sites is a significant overhead for any business.

* really 53kVA vs. 29kVa MIC for clarity. The hedge here with AC 44kW install (on a 29kVA MIC) is the operator betting that 29kVA won't be breached in any given month, saving €292.88 of these levies per site per month.

Mimon

Local Tesco has recently put two points in what was family parking spots. They haven't changed the markings and people are still using it as a parking spot.

liamog

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Cost of €314.29 over €21.41 (€292.88) is a large sum if you have 10 sites for example. Monthly PSO and Distribution Levies of €2,928.80 just for having DC 50kW vs AC 44kW* on 10 sites is a significant overhead for any business.

How much are you penalised for busting through the cap, we need a pair of Zoe drivers to constantly double connect and bust through what appears to be a very fragile business model.

AndyBoBandy

Mimon wrote: »

Local Tesco has recently put two points in what was family parking spots. They haven't changed the markings and people are still using it as a parking spot.

The spots usually get painted a week or so after the charger goes live.

Busman Paddy Lasty

liamog wrote: »

How much are you penalised for busting through the cap, we need a pair of Zoe drivers to constantly double connect and bust through what appears to be a very fragile business model.

I can check in the morning for a similar MIC connection but it won't be as precise as an actual 29kVA site. It may not be that bad for small MIC sites. If one of your sites is consistently breached you just raise that one and not the rest.

Now that 11kW AC is more common on new cars that model is at risk in future but one connector has to be a Zoe or Model S dual charger and have the other charging. PHEV use is a Godsend for that business model

eCars with 900 AC locations could save €263,592 per month using this strategy.

liamog

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'm still not seeing where this comes from. As far as I can find the 29kVA MIC is a limit for domestic customers. The relevant limit for the a business customer would be 49kVA to ensure you remain in DUoS group 5, so again we're back to why is a downrated DC charger more expensive than a similar rated dual AC.

liamog

OK I see it now, its the PSO levy, so a customer with a 49kVA MIC could choose the lower rate for standing charge but would still be in the higher bracket for PSO levy.

How does this work in practice, is each individual charger seen as a separate account, or is it something that's rolled up per company?

Calahonda52

liamog wrote: »

OK I see it now, its the PSO levy, so a customer with a 49kVA MIC could choose the lower rate for standing charge but would still be in the higher bracket for PSO levy.

How does this work in practice, is each individual charger seen as a separate account, or is it something that's rolled up per company?

I dont know if that is correct, I need to find out

In 99.9% of cases, each charging location has its own MPRN as they need a new ESB-N connection.
I know one LA which has hung Christmas lights and a 50 kW from the same , new MPRN, and the charger meter is used for splitting the bill.

We have one 4 plug location (2 by 2 by 22 KW) with its own MPRN
Another 2 plug location with its own MPRN and so one.

On the bill provided, the headline day rate is 8c/kWh but the all in is closer to 13 when u add in all the different kWH charges.

ps just looking at a 60 kVa bill now.
simpler, Low voltage Max Demand, tariff structure but the headline rate is 18.2 incl. VAT, so not much margin if you are charging 28

innrain

I feel we're going a bit in circle but wouldn't you say would be better to install a 25kW DC instead of 22kW AC? At least with DC you have a better control of the output. At the AC if a PHEV is there for 4 hours you deliver 13 kWh while at the DC it only 50% occupancy you could deliver 50kWh. In a year time there is a lot of kWh

Calahonda52

innrain wrote: »

I feel we're going a bit in circle but wouldn't you say would be better to install a 25kW DC instead of 22kW AC? At least with DC you have a better control of the output. At the AC if a PHEV is there for 4 hours you deliver 13 kWh while at the DC it only 50% occupancy you could deliver 50kWh. In a year time there is a lot of kWh

I am just providing real cost intel from the coal face, I will leave the ifs and buts to others.

Its all very well to ask why this and why that. EV charge points are a massive loss leader, the CapEx is grant aided some what but for a CP costing 4K, and annual OpEx of maybe 6,000 at very low utilisation rates..........

Busman Paddy Lasty

innrain wrote: »

I feel we're going a bit in circle but wouldn't you say would be better to install a 25kW DC instead of 22kW AC? At least with DC you have a better control of the output. At the AC if a PHEV is there for 4 hours you deliver 13 kWh while at the DC it only 50% occupancy you could deliver 50kWh. In a year time there is a lot of kWh

Depends how busy the location is versus the capital and maintenance cost of a DC charger. Efacec QC20 is 22kW nominal with a peak of 25kW. This will be more expensive to install and maintain which may explain the absence of them over here.

With the 2x22kW AC your customer supplies and maintains their own cable and inverter for free.

unkel

Back from the lofty hypothetical world of the last few posts on this thread, back down to the real world

Thank you Lidl, I got another 25kWh from you while shopping / parking at your site today for a bit over an hour. I've done pretty much all my grocery shopping with Lidl for many years and I will continue to do so

MJohnston

The best thing about charging at Lidl is it makes the four hours you spend in the checkout queues worth it.

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

Back from the lofty hypothetical world of the last few posts on this thread, back down to the real world

Thank you Lidl, I got another 25kWh from you while shopping / parking at your site today for a bit over an hour. I've done pretty much all my grocery shopping with Lidl for many years and I will continue to do so

You've the dual chargers, don't you? Really wish more cars charged at 22kW

Black_Knight

cruisey1987 wrote: »

You've the dual chargers, don't you? Really wish more cars charged at 22kW

ESV ecars must think we all have 22kW onboard charging.

the_amazing_raisin

Black_Knight wrote: »

ESV ecars must think we all have 22kW onboard charging.

Or more likely they don't care that the charge points are only useful to a subset of cars, it's installation numbers for them

DermoMIO

1 EasyGO 07kw charger @ IKEA. 2 spots available both painted green

zg3409

DermoMIO wrote: »

1 EasyGO 22kw charger @ IKEA. 2 spots available both painted green

7kW Max I believe, not 22kW. There since December last year. See plugshare app. Pay to use

DermoMIO

zg3409 wrote: »

7kW Max I believe, not 22kW. There since December last year. See plugshare app. Pay to use

Sorry your correct. Thought I seen on the EasyGO app they were 22

Black_Knight

DermoMIO wrote: »

Sorry your correct. Thought I seen on the EasyGO app they were 22

Are you ****ting me! Pay to use, 7kW only and a bloody overstay fee after 2 hours! So IKEA are trying to incentivise you to get in and out in less than 2 hours, but at the same time providing shag all power to get you back on the road.

Hit the overstay and it's a rip off and you still need to fast charge on a round trip from Cork. 22kW wouldn't eliminate a fast charge on the way home, but at least my car would be the limiting factor (11kW), not the unit.

liamog

Black_Knight wrote: »

Pay to use, 7kW only and a bloody overstay fee after 2 hours!

I really feel like IKEA have missed the point entirely installing these chargers and giving an overstay charge. The 2 hour limit is probably logical and fits with most IKEA visits but they really should have provisioned the 24kW DC chargers you see in mainland Europe.

Silent Running

liamog wrote: »

I really feel like IKEA have missed the point entirely installing these chargers and giving an overstay charge. The 2 hour limit is probably logical and fits with most IKEA visits but they really should have provisioned the 24kW DC chargers you see in mainland Europe.

That's it... you're taking my wife to Ikea for her next spree. I don't think She's spent less than 4 hours in any visit.

woodseb

DermoMIO wrote: »

1 EasyGO 07kw charger @ IKEA. 2 spots available both painted green

there's about 8 spots outside Decathlon too

eddhorse

2 spots as well is measly.
Strange to see that cable wrap at the bottom of the charger too. A cover should be used?

zg3409

woodseb wrote: »

there's about 8 spots outside Decathlon too

Decathlon next door is 22kW pay to use with 2 hour overstay from easygo and you can easily walk to IKEA. I am not sure if leaving the site is allowed or if you risk clamping.

There was a campaign to hassle IKEA into installing chargers and they put in 2 token ones. In Belfast they have 50kW chademo only.

7kW is a bit pointless, and 2 limited to 2 hours means you cant get a decent charge while in store. The overstay fee is quite low so I suspect those needing the charge will just pay the fee and stay.

The only real places I have seen with a decent bank of AC chargers is decathlon and stillorgan shopping centre and a few large multinational employers.

the_amazing_raisin

zg3409 wrote: »

Decathlon next door is 22kW pay to use with 2 hour overstay from easygo and you can easily walk to IKEA. I am not sure if leaving the site is allowed or if you risk clamping.

There was a campaign to hassle IKEA into installing chargers and they put in 2 token ones. In Belfast they have 50kW chademo only.

7kW is a bit pointless, and 2 limited to 2 hours means you cant get a decent charge while in store. The overstay fee is quite low so I suspect those needing the charge will just pay the fee and stay.

The only real places I have seen with a decent bank of AC chargers is decathlon and stillorgan shopping centre and a few large multinational employers.

It's especially frustrating since IKEA in Norway and Sweden were quite proactive about installing 50kW chargers. I remember Bjorn would use the IKEA chargers a lot early on because there were a lot of them so there's always one or two free

eddhorse

eddhorse wrote: »

....................
Strange to see that cable wrap at the bottom of the charger too. A cover should be used?

No need even though it would of course be aesthetically pleasing and prevent comments about its omission ......... Protection may be achieved by insulation alone, but, depending on the environment of the installation, further physical protection may be necessary to ensure the continuing integrity of basic insulation, e.g. conduits, trunking, armouring or tough external sheathing on cables.

kaahooters

so...

ev owners:"ikea, give us EV owners chargers while we buy your affordable products"

ikea: installs chargers

ev owners: NO, NOT LIKE THIS

its 2 points, theyll install more if theres demand.

i was over in decathalon last week and there was a campervan taking up 4-5 of the points there, mentioned it to the security guy, he didnt give a f***

AndyBoBandy

anyone visiting Ikea in a 50kWh battery car (like a Model 3 SR+) will get about 28% from 2 hours plugged into one of those units. And where they are located, outside in the elements....


They might as well have just not bothered..... or if they wanted to do it right, a bank of 10 11kW units inside right next to the entrance, in premium parking spots, and monitored by staff/security for ICE'ing.. .or get really clever and have a red flashing light over the space that's activated when a car enters the space, and only turns off when a charging session for that space is started. No time limits. And Free.

AndyBoBandy

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

............. No time limits. And Free.

Just get folk hogging it then though, as seen with many EV charging spots historically.