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Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

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    #782
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    joe40 wrote: »
    Did I just watch the same video as everyone else? The rights and wrongs in a verbal altercation fade into insignificance when one of the parties pulls a gun and points it at people. Regardless of race.

    Someone could easily have died there, I can't comprehend some of the attitudes here, defending the woman who pulled a gun. Granted the situation was annoying but to escalate to that extent by pulling a gun is mind boggling.

    Depending on state laws it's perfectly acceptable. Antagonizing what looks like a pregnant woman and causing her that much stress is downright disgusting.

    They also threatened violence, held them against their will along with a load of verbal abuse and accusations of being racist. I would say she was well within her rights to pull the gun.

    It was very much a last resort after listening to what they had to say, apologizing and trying to get out of there.

    You are very blinkered if you think the woman pulling the gun was wrong in this scenario.


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    #783
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    joe40 wrote: »
    Did I just watch the same video as everyone else? The rights and wrongs in a verbal altercation fade into insignificance when one of the parties pulls a gun and points it at people. Regardless of race.

    Someone could easily have died there, I can't comprehend some of the attitudes here, defending the woman who pulled a gun. Granted the situation was annoying but to escalate to that extent by pulling a gun is mind boggling.


    Just out of curiosity. Who do you think was racist in that video?


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    #784
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tony EH wrote: »
    What a stupid, stupid, country. :rolleyes:

    .....

    Come on tony, you are better than that.

    338 million people.

    America is a stupid country?

    We have a miniscule population in comparison and have a plethora of examples of stupidity.


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    #785
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    JimmyVik wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity. Who do you think was racist in that video?

    The black woman was far too aggressive, mouthy and since she took race into, she was racist. I'm not trying to defend her.
    But Jesus, pulling a gun in that situation instead of driving away. What was she thinking? Someone could have died, what if someone else had a gun?

    The black woman in the video was an arrogant knob but there was no obvious threat of a physical attack. The gun was a total over reaction and potentially fatal in my opinion.


    If both parties were white in the same altercation, would you support or justify the pulling of a gun.


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    #786
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,115 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    joe40 wrote: »
    The black woman in the video was an arrogant knob but there was no obvious threat of a physical attack. The gun was a total over reaction and potentially fatal in my opinion.

    We don't really know what happened to spark all of this off. That part is missing from the video and often what happens at the beginning of an altercation like this can shape one's opinion drastically.

    However, the black woman is a mouthy twat and doesn't want to let the situation go. The white woman is an hysterical, over-reacting idiot, who thinks she can solve an issue at the end of a gun.

    The whole situation is just bloody crazy.

    I cannot imagine anywhere else in the world (at least in 1st world countries) where something like this could end in a potentially fatal incident.


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    #787
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    joe40 wrote: »
    Did I just watch the same video as everyone else? The rights and wrongs in a verbal altercation fade into insignificance when one of the parties pulls a gun and points it at people. Regardless of race.

    I don't see it that way. When someone goes out of their way to shout in your face, make threatening gestures, and such, you have the right to defend yourself. The Mother was out of line in hitting the car, just as she was out of line in accosting the woman throughout the whole video. Not once did she make any gesture to suggest that she was willing to calm down, and every indication that she was going to step up towards something more aggressive.

    People have responsibility for the situations that they create. The white woman has responsibility for how she reacted, but the black woman has similar responsibility for pushing the incident. That's not washed away simply because someone else upped the ante.

    Did you notice the White woman putting her hand to her lower stomach while she was being shouted at? Now, she could have been overweight, or she could have been pregnant. Would being pregnant change your opinion? It would mine....
    Someone could easily have died there, I can't comprehend some of the attitudes here, defending the woman who pulled a gun. Granted the situation was annoying but to escalate to that extent by pulling a gun is mind boggling.

    Annoying? I can't comprehend why you would downplay the Black womans behavior. It was extremely aggressive. If it had happened to me, I would have been expecting physical violence to occur next....


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    #788
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,844 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    The elephant in the room at all times is guns. Take the bloody guns out of circulation and you pretty much solve most of the problems. Guns are both the chicken and the egg when it comes to killings in the US.

    You can't defend yourself from gun toting criminals without a gun.


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    #789
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I don't see it that way. When someone goes out of their way to shout in your face, make threatening gestures, and such, you have the right to defend yourself. The Mother was out of line in hitting the car, just as she was out of line in accosting the woman throughout the whole video. Not once did she make any gesture to suggest that she was willing to calm down, and every indication that she was going to step up towards something more aggressive.

    People have responsibility for the situations that they create. The white woman has responsibility for how she reacted, but the black woman has similar responsibility for pushing the incident. That's not washed away simply because someone else upped the ante.

    Did you notice the White woman putting her hand to her lower stomach while she was being shouted at? Now, she could have been overweight, or she could have been pregnant. Would being pregnant change your opinion? It would mine....



    Annoying? I can't comprehend why you would downplay the Black womans behavior. It was extremely aggressive. If it had happened to me, I would have been expecting physical violence to occur next....

    No I disagree with you on this one. Obviously we haven't seen the whole incident but it is similar to any no. Of road rage incidents that take place everywhere including Ireland.

    I could easily imagine such a confrontation in Ireland. It may get heated and even threatening but no one would pull a gun.

    That brought everything to a whole new level of crazy.

    I'm not downplaying the black woman's actions, she was an arrogant knob and took race into the situation for no reason.


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    #790
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,358 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    joe40 wrote: »
    Did I just watch the same video as everyone else? The rights and wrongs in a verbal altercation fade into insignificance when one of the parties pulls a gun and points it at people. Regardless of race.

    Someone could easily have died there, I can't comprehend some of the attitudes here, defending the woman who pulled a gun. Granted the situation was annoying but to escalate to that extent by pulling a gun is mind boggling.

    What's annoying is when you take into consideration the current racial tensions in the US at the moment, and you have some people who would prefer if a person allow for themselves to get the sh!te kicked out of them by a group or mob first and then call the polices rather than their enact their constitutional rite to defend themselves. Iv seen many videos of white woman like this being dragged by the hair from cars and battered by several people. The man showed restraint, if that was a man screaming at him like that instead of a woman, fists would have been thrown.


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    #791
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    joe40 wrote: »
    Did I just watch the same video as everyone else? The rights and wrongs in a verbal altercation fade into insignificance when one of the parties pulls a gun and points it at people. Regardless of race.

    Someone could easily have died there, I can't comprehend some of the attitudes here, defending the woman who pulled a gun. Granted the situation was annoying but to escalate to that extent by pulling a gun is mind boggling.

    Maybe watch the video again, determine who the aggressors are and who's trying to leave a volitile situation.

    The white woman did everything from apologize that they felt wronged to trying to retreat out of the confrontation twice in both attempts she was met with aggression..

    She was well within her right to defend herself and her family and property. Does she have to be getting physically assaulted before you d deem it ok? Prevention is the best medicine in this case and she handled it very well imo

    Perhaps the two black ladies should try to be less aggressive less persistent when someone is trying to avoid confrontation less racist in there wording, you simply can't go around attacking people like that and be shocked when they defend themselves.

    The more I read your stuff from white privilege to ur view on this the more it becomes abundantly clear your very biased.


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    #792
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Cupatae wrote: »
    Maybe watch the video again, determine who the aggressors are and who's trying to leave a volitile situation.

    The white woman did everything from apologize that they felt wronged to trying to retreat out of the confrontation twice in both attempts she was met with aggression..

    She was well within her right to defend herself and her family and property. Does she have to be getting physically assaulted before you d deem it ok? Prevention is the best medicine in this case and she handled it very well imo

    Perhaps the two black ladies should try to be less aggressive less persistent when someone is trying to avoid confrontation less racist in there wording, you simply can't go around attacking people like that and be shocked when they defend themselves.

    The more I read your stuff from white privilege to ur view on this the more it becomes abundantly clear your very biased.

    She was in her car driving away. Where was the danger.

    Pulling the gun was a total over reaction. Your justification for the action shows your bias.
    If a black woman had pulled a gun in a similar situation you would be lambasting her for it.


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    #793
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    joe40 wrote: »
    She was in her car driving away. Where was the danger.

    Pulling the gun was a total over reaction. Your justification for the action shows your bias.
    If a black woman had pulled a gun in a similar situation you would be lambasting her for it.

    They went behind her car and attacked it and said "I will beat your ****ing ass"

    She then proceeded to draw her weapon in a controlled and defensive posture so her and her family could leave the situation , note the black ladies could have left at anytime but continued with aggression,

    I commend her for her brave, controlled response and proper use of a fire arm to defend herself from attack, again does she have to be getting battered before she is allowed to use her gun to ward off attackers ?

    Can I also ask why you bring color into it "if it was a black woman you would be lambasting her for it" not at all of commend anyone that defends there family in a correct controlled manner that lady looked pregnant aswell.

    Color had nothing to do with it for me but you insist on injecting race into everything why is that ?


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    #794
    puppieperson1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 301 ✭✭puppieperson1


    All this 'noise - '(black lives matter ) is being stirred up to ensure Biden gets elected watch how it disappears into thin air once the democrats have unseated trump. All the unrest is being encouraged to try and sabotage Trump. It will be gone in November.......when they elect the demented Biden. His vice president will be the president as the dementia will be to far gone at that stage to run the country. His vice president might be a black woman but it could also be bloody hilary clinton.


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    #795
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,792 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Any opinion from the BLM hashtaggers on the anti semetic tweets from BLM UK causing BBC and others to withdraw support for the BLM movement? (whilst of course reiterating opposition to all forms of racism)


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    #796
    hots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Any opinion from the BLM hashtaggers on the anti semetic tweets from BLM UK causing BBC and others to withdraw support for the BLM movement? (whilst of course reiterating opposition to all forms of racism)

    Link?


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    #797
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Any opinion from the BLM hashtaggers on the anti semetic tweets from BLM UK causing BBC and others to withdraw support for the BLM movement? (whilst of course reiterating opposition to all forms of racism)


    It's interesting that these organizations care more about Israelis than Westerners. Anti white BLM comments are fine, but antisemitic comments are not? I don't understand why these groups struggle so much to be principled in their supposed anti racism.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #798
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Cupatae wrote: »
    They went behind her car and attacked it and said "I will beat your ****ing ass"

    She then proceeded to draw her weapon in a controlled and defensive posture so her and her family could leave the situation , note the black ladies could have left at anytime but continued with aggression,

    I commend her for her brave, controlled response and proper use of a fire arm to defend herself from attack, again does she have to be getting battered before she is allowed to use her gun to ward off attackers ?

    Can I also ask why you bring color into it "if it was a black woman you would be lambasting her for it" not at all of commend anyone that defends there family in a correct controlled manner that lady looked pregnant aswell.

    Color had nothing to do with it for me but you insist on injecting race into everything why is that ?

    If you were in the same position as that woman, would you have pulled a gun?


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    #799
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    joe40 wrote: »
    She was in her car driving away. Where was the danger.

    Pulling the gun was a total over reaction. Your justification for the action shows your bias.
    If a black woman had pulled a gun in a similar situation you would be lambasting her for it.

    From what I can see in the video is that the white couple are in their car in the process of driving away but the black woman is having none of it. It looks like she hit the car and was trying to stop them from leaving.

    I'm not one for pulling a gun willy-nilly but a pregnant woman can't afford to take any chances.


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    #800
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,792 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    hots wrote: »
    Link?


    the tweet?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/blm-accused-of-spreading-hate-in-tweet-on-west-bank-6dbhdcfkk


    Or the companies rolling back on blm?



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/01/bbc-tells-staff-not-wear-black-lives-matters-badges-on-air/


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8478173/Fans-social-media-droves-Sky-Sports-pundits-ditch-Black-Lives-Matter-badges.html


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    #801
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Cupatae wrote: »
    The more I read your stuff from white privilege to ur view on this the more it becomes abundantly clear your very biased.

    Ditto. I could understand the confusion on white privilege, but essentially giving the Black woman a pass for escalating the situation, and focusing on the white woman instead?

    Nah. Black privilege, I guess. Black people can be forgiven anything they do, as the consequences of their aggression is always unreasonable. People should just accept their aggressive behavior, take it, and if it reaches actual violence, understand that White people made the black person do it. It's not the black persons fault in any conceivable way.


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    #802
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,792 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    It's interesting that these organizations care more about Israelis than Westerners. Anti white BLM comments are fine, but antisemitic comments are not? I don't understand why these groups struggle so much to be principled in their supposed anti racism.
    Not fine by me, hence why I refuse to use the BLM hashtag and instead use the all lives matter handle.

    BLM are a group of racists.


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    #803
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    joe40 wrote: »
    If you were in the same position as that woman, would you have pulled a gun?

    Nope, but then I'm not a woman... As a man, I can hold off a lot of physical aggression, due to my height and reach of my arms. If I was a woman, then, probably yes. Especially if I was pregnant.


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    #804
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Ditto. I could understand the confusion on white privilege, but essentially giving the Black woman a pass for escalating the situation, and focusing on the white woman instead?

    Nah. Black privilege, I guess. Black people can be forgiven anything they do, as the consequences of their aggression is always unreasonable. People should just accept their aggressive behavior, take it, and if it reaches actual violence, understand that White people made the black person do it. It's not the black persons fault in any conceivable way.

    That is a total misrepresentation of what I said. The black woman was totally in the wrong for starting the row, and her use of aggressive and threatening language.
    Pulling the gun was then a total over reaction. Someone could have died.

    I could easy be in a situation where some aggressive ****er is shouting, and making a scene. There is no way I would pull a gun on them. Maybe you guys are different but i would behave like that.

    You're right though this incident has nothing to do with race it shows the sick American attitude to guns.

    Why was it posted in a thread discussing racial issues in the first place?


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    #805
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    joe40 wrote: »
    That is a total misrepresentation of what I said. The black woman was totally in the wrong for starting the row, and her use of aggressive and threatening language.
    Pulling the gun was then a total over reaction. Someone could have died.

    I could easy be in a situation where some aggressive ****er is shouting, and making a scene. There is no way I would pull a gun on them. Maybe you guys are different but i would behave like that.

    You're right though this incident has nothing to do with race it shows the sick American attitude to guns.

    Why was it posted in a thread discussing racial issues in the first place?

    The fact that you see the gun as the main problem in that situation says it all.

    It wasnt misrepresentation it was the simplified version of the theme you ve been running with all along , no matter how often the flaws in your points get pointed out to u it's always someone elses fault they simply misunderstand you.

    You just have strange logic or a lack of understanding of the reality of half these situations, I'm not sure which...


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    #806
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    joe40 wrote: »
    I could easy be in a situation where some aggressive ****er is shouting, and making a scene. There is no way I would pull a gun on them. Maybe you guys are different but i would behave like that.

    You can't know that for sure though because you aren't a pregnant woman in that situation. And you probably don't have a gun.


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    #807
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    joe40 wrote: »
    That is a total misrepresentation of what I said. The black woman was totally in the wrong for starting the row, and her use of aggressive and threatening language.
    Pulling the gun was then a total over reaction. Someone could have died.

    I could easy be in a situation where some aggressive ****er is shouting, and making a scene. There is no way I would pull a gun on them. Maybe you guys are different but i would behave like that.

    You're right though this incident has nothing to do with race it shows the sick American attitude to guns.

    Why was it posted in a thread discussing racial issues in the first place?

    It's not an over reaction. It's permissible by the conceal carry laws in that state. Brandishing the firearm can be done against a perceived threat of violence or damage to property which this falls under in both counts imo but that's ultimately up to the states judicial system to determine. Considering the video evidence I would say shes safe from prosecution.

    As far as I can see the gun was not pulled with the intent to use it. Nobody dies if the aggressors back down and back off which they should have done before this. They still continued with the aggression even after the gun was brandished. It's really hard to side with the other party.

    The gun laws themselves are another matter completely.


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    #808
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    BloodBath wrote: »
    The gun laws themselves are another matter completely.

    I wouldn't fancy living over there at the moment without one........or ten.


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    #809
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Cupatae wrote: »
    The fact that you see the gun as the main problem in that situation says it all.

    It wasnt misrepresentation it was the simplified version of the theme you ve been running with all along , no matter how often the flaws in your points get pointed out to u it's always someone elses fault they simply misunderstand you.

    You just have strange logic or a lack of understanding of the reality of half these situations, I'm not sure which...

    The gun is absolutely the main problem here. Someone could have died.

    I'm perfectly capable of reaching my own conclusions I don't need you to point out the flaws.

    I point out the flaws in your argument all the time as well. It's called having a discussion.
    Would you prefer just to have a forum where every had the same opinions.

    Ironically enough, in the real world my opinions are not particularly radical.


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    #810
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    joe40 wrote: »
    The gun is absolutely the main problem here. Someone could have died.

    I'm perfectly capable of reaching my own conclusions I don't need you to point out the flaws.

    I point out the flaws in your argument all the time as well. It's called having a discussion.
    Would you prefer just to have a forum where every had the same opinions.

    Ironically enough, in the real world my opinions are not particularly radical.

    The difference is I'm willing to be wrong you should try it sometime because some of the stuff you come out with is just ridiculous at times and multiple people have pointed it out.

    The gun wouldn't have been needed if it wasnt for the continued aggression by those two ladies infact the gun resolved the situation and allowed both parties to leave safely , it was correct use of a firearm, in a controlled and correct manner.

    Now had the lady just whipped out the pistol at the start and started being aggressive you might have a point.. but this lady exhausted every other avenue of descalation before taking out a gun as a last resort in a defensive manner ie. Backing away and telling her aggressors to leave her alone.

    If anything this highlights the importance and benifits of concealed carry.


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    #811
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Cupatae wrote: »
    The difference is I'm willing to be wrong you should try it sometime because some of the stuff you come out with is just ridiculous at times and multiple people have pointed it out.

    The gun wouldn't have been needed if it wasnt for the continued aggression by those two ladies infact the gun resolved the situation and allowed both parties to leave safely , it was correct use of a firearm, in a controlled and correct manner.

    Now had the lady just whipped out the pistol at the start and started being aggressive you might have a point.. but this lady exhausted every other avenue of descalation before taking out a gun as a last resort in a defensive manner ie. Backing away and telling her aggressors to leave her alone.

    If anything this highlights the importance and benifits of concealed carry.

    We're going to have to agree to differ on this one. There is no point going over and back making the same points. In my opinion pulling the gun was a dangerous, potentially fatal act. What went on beforehand was deplorable but the option to drive away was available.
    That is better than risking the death of someone.
    You're entitled to disagree but you won't change my opinion.

    As for "multiple people pointing out things to me" do you not see how arrogant and patronising that is.

    There is a relatively small number of people contributing to this thread and the vast majority would be like minded on these racial issues.
    That is fine. People are generally respectful so that is the point of discussion.

    But you really should not be of the opinion that this thread or board's in general is fully representative of wider Irish opinion. There is a range of opinion out there that is not expressed here.
    I like this thread purely because I can read the different opinions and even when I disagree, mostly people make reasoned points.

    You seem to have the idea that you need to change my mind, you don't. You absolutely can disagree that the point of posting here.


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