Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

Carfacemandog

Carfacemandog wrote: »

In quite sure I have seen this poster refer to living in the us multiple times in the past. Is there something wild and incredible about the idea of Irish people moving abroad?

Nope, since I tend to live abroad myself.

There was context due to her own statement about another posters contributions to the thread.

joe40

Cupatae wrote: »

Ok a few things, just because an article says something.. doesnt make it fact.

i dont think you full understand the root of the term white privilege, and the intent with which it is being thrown around now a days..

First of all to clarify for you "White Privilege" is a racist term, its a race based derogatory generalization, Its also very divisive for obvious reasons, so if your about equality and ending racism but ok with this being thrown around... the two dont mix.

So in saying white privilege by definition one has made a racist statement.

As i said before i dont think you're racist, more biased and dont rightly understand the phrase.

Could you be anymore condescending?

The term white privilege is not a "race based derogatory term" it is a reflection of race based advantage in American society.
Some are arguing that this advantage is overstated. Some people are making the point that it encourages a "what's the point?" attitude within black communities. I understand these arguments but I still think it is an issue within America.

This is just an analogy so I know not directly comparable.
The vast majority of people going into high points courses in Ireland such as Medicine and Dentistry are from the top socioeconomic groups even though our education system is largely fair, and everyone sits the same exams.
Why is that?
I'm not for one minute saying these youngsters don't work hard or deserve their place. The leaving cert for all it's faults is a leveller but it still shows the educational advantage of coming from an affluent background.

I'm not been derogatory to rich people, or the hard working kids who get these courses but many will themselves acknowledge the advantages they have.

This also doesn't mean kids from less affluent backgrounds don't achieve highly in the LC but the pattern with entry to the high points courses is evident.

Sinzo

Sinzo wrote: »

Klaz. I think you have made some really interesting and valid points. I have posted earlier with some similar cross over points.
BLM is not a bad think if it gets people to focus on injustice towards the black minority. Unfortunately, it would appear that it has been hijacked by an anti capitalist and Maoist ideology. That poses a severe threat to modern America.

It wouldn't be maoist ideology since that's unique to the cultural history of China. It could never be applied or adapted to a western cultural base. I think you're confusing it with marxism, since that often forms the basis for militant groups (Black Panthers), or social movements (such as feminism).

But yes, the modern application of marxist principles is dangerous because it's based around selective freedoms, chosen by "the enlightened".

White privilege or white fragility, I believe, are phrases that have become divisive rather than names for useful concepts that might help us explore the issue of race and disenfranchisment.

True enough, although it's the case of double standards. Just as the perception that one can't be racist to white people, and that reverse racism doesn't exist. Double standards are the rule these days.

That said, white people, as the majority, do have to look at their behaviour and how they deal with blacks. That does not abdicate the black community from their own responsibilities either.

Agreed... but we must look at the factors that influence those negative behaviors. Yes, there is ingrained racism or racial superiority with some aspects of American culture or certain social groups. But we must also consider that the prevalence of Black males involved in crime, will stack negative perceptions against them, encouraging an attitude of fear or hatred. Such factors need to be considered neutrally rather than dismiss it all, as a result of prior racism or the poor conditions of Black communities.

The current cycle in the US is very worrying as it is becoming more fraught. I think that assumptions on race on all sides is leading to ever more heightened emotions.

The US is fcuked. It was messed up before this happened, and while this could have been a progressive movement, it's de-evolving into a more destructive movement. Sure, some of it has been hijacked by extreme elements, but to be fair, when you base a movement on mostly negatives, it's going to attract the wrong types.

Consider the difference between the people who were attracted to Martin L King vs Malcolm X. The attitudes were completely different with King having a far more positive, hopeful and forgiving stance, whereas Malcolm X was far more militant and aggressive. Where would you see BLM standing? For many of us, it seems that they dabble in both areas... without committing themselves which means that they attract all types to their cause... but not taking responsibility for attracting them.

BattleCorp

joe40 wrote: »

The term white privilege is not a "race based derogatory term" it is a reflection of race based advantage in American society.

It might not have started out as a 'race based derogatory term' but it has evolved into one.

Kind of like the word 'fagg0t' started out to mean a bundle of sticks but is now a derogatory term.

joe40

joe40 wrote: »

This also doesn't mean kids from less affluent backgrounds don't achieve highly in the LC but the pattern with entry to the high points courses is evident.

Which is fine in itself, but taking your analogy you would be using the term white privilege to apply to all white people... in that while the majority do not have those benefits, we are all responsible for them, and seen as getting them, even though we don't. The poor white guy is told to check his privilege regardless of his personal circumstances even though he's not benefiting.

I've been to College/University lectures in the US where lecturers have argued (not really argued since they shut down any dissenting opinions) the case of white privilege in their classrooms. So, my experience of hearing about white privilege isn't restricted to seeing it online.

The problem is that we already have terms for class privilege. And many other forms of privilege within society.... we don't need another term that only targets a specific racial group, and doesn't apply the same considerations to other racial groups. We don't take the caste system in India, and coin a term called "Indian or Brown privilege". You make the case that it's something that happens in the US with White Privilege, but it's not anymore. They're trying to apply it throughout western countries towards white people...

JimmyVik

joe40 wrote: »

What racist statements did I make? That is a big accusation to make.
I recall you youself getting upset at been branded a racist.

So please clearly explain where I have made racist statements.

I see you are trying to erase your racist posts after only a day. Imagine if you were trying to do that in a few years on twitter

JimmyVik

My friend is black.
He works in the same job as me. Gets paid the same as me. But he is always going on about how people are racist to him.
Now I dont doubt that he has had this at times, but he now attributes everything to racism.
I could give loads of examples, but here is one that happened just after Christmas this year.
We are driving home late one night and got pulled over by the cops.
they breathalyzed me and my friend starts muttering under his breath.
The cop asked him what he was saying and he got cheeky.
We were both then asked to get out of the car and given a dressing down for acting the pr!ck, which he was but I wasnt.
So as we were pulling away he bangs the dash and says "see, they only stopped us because I was black and then they pulled us out of the car because I was black".

Now I tried to explain to him that all the cars stopped and breathalyzed around us hardly contained black guys. And we only got further attention because he was acting the pr!ck. I pointed out to him that I also got guff off the cop and none of it would have happened if he had sat there and been quiet while I blew into the bag.

He didnt talk to me for days. And its not the first time something along similar lines has happened. He sees racism everywhere. Probably thinks I was racist for not agreeing it was racist.

When I worked in the US I worked with so many black guys who were the same. Always looking for a racist angle. And actually being racist against whites and latinos themselves and just not seeing it. Not all mind you, but a lot. And I could tell you which ones it would be that would be like that, once I heard where they grew up.

Ive loads more stories like that, but I would just bore you to tears. I was just thinking about this one today.

joe40

JimmyVik wrote: »

I see you are trying to erase your racist posts after only a day. Imagine if you were trying to do that in a few years on twitter

Explain? I have no idea what you're talking about. I haven't erased anything.

JimmyVik

joe40 wrote: »

Explain? I have no idea what you're talking about. I haven't erased anything.

I didnt say you erased them. You probably cant anyway. You are just churning now so your racist comments get lost. Its like digging a hole deeper and deeper tbh. Many a person has got into twitter spats after slipping up like that and only came out worse after it.

Bottome line. I thought your comments were racist. Many others thought they were racist. The comments were racist.

You cant change anyones minds who perceives them to be racist.
Just Admit it, Apologize, Dont do it again and Move on.

As an aside, its a perfect example of how a comment that you made, or a position you took, that you thought was ok, is not ok to others.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

I didnt say you erased them. You probably cant anyway. You are just churning now so your racist comments get lost. Its like digging a hole deeper and deeper tbh. Many a person has got into twitter spats after slipping up like that and only came out worse after it.

Bottome line. I thought your comments were racist. Many others thought they were racist. The comments were racist.

You cant change anyones minds who perceives them to be racist.
Just Admit it, Apologize, Dont do it again and Move on.

As an aside, its a perfect example of how a comment that you made, or a position you took, that you thought was ok, is not ok to others.

I was one of the people to call him on his use of white privilege.

But telling him to apologise and not do it again?

I honestly don't believe that Joe is racist but I do think BLM and the media have pushed a narrative that white privilege exists and should be addressed, so he sees nothing wrong with sometimes automatically assuming things based on their skin colour.

I would never ask him to apologise and to not repeat himself. Just because you found it racist and offensive doesn't mean people should be not be able to say it.

That attitude reeks of BLM.

Sinzo

I was of the understanding that Maoist and Marxist represented the same type of ideology i.e. power to the workers. So it is the same principle whether you cite it based on the Chinese incarnation or the Russian (USSR) version. The point remains that it is a danger to western democratic society such as ours that is based on capitalism with a social conscience.

Sinzo

Deleted User wrote: »

It wouldn't be maoist ideology since that's unique to the cultural history of China. It could never be applied or adapted to a western cultural base. I think you're confusing it with marxism, since that often forms the basis for militant groups (Black Panthers), or social movements (such as feminism).

I was of the understanding that Maoist and Marxist represented the same type of ideology i.e. power to the workers. So it is the same principle whether you cite it based on the Chinese incarnation or the Russian (USSR) version. The point remains that it is a danger to western democratic society such as ours that is based on capitalism with a social conscience.

It seems that we are in general agreement about most points then.

Cupatae

joe40 wrote: »

Could you be anymore condescending?

The term white privilege is not a "race based derogatory term" it is a reflection of race based advantage in American society.
Some are arguing that this advantage is overstated. Some people are making the point that it encourages a "what's the point?" attitude within black communities. I understand these arguments but I still think it is an issue within America.

This is just an analogy so I know not directly comparable.
The vast majority of people going into high points courses in Ireland such as Medicine and Dentistry are from the top socioeconomic groups even though our education system is largely fair, and everyone sits the same exams.
Why is that?
I'm not for one minute saying these youngsters don't work hard or deserve their place. The leaving cert for all it's faults is a leveller but it still shows the educational advantage of coming from an affluent background.

I'm not been derogatory to rich people, or the hard working kids who get these courses but many will themselves acknowledge the advantages they have.

This also doesn't mean kids from less affluent backgrounds don't achieve highly in the LC but the pattern with entry to the high points courses is evident.

How is it condescending? I'm trying to explain something to you that you clearly don't understand, you are going around using a racist phrase without realizing it's racist.

You said you were all for listening to how it's racist and it's been thoroughly explained to you be a few posters at this point.

You don't get to pick what phrases mean and whether they are racist or not.. I can't go around in the morning saying the N word and just say its not racist cause black people use it, there's a whole host of things intent being one.

Justify it what ever way you like to urself it doesn't make it any less racists and if you use it with no issue don't be surprised if people view you as racist. You bring it on urself with an ignorant view.

1800_Ladladlad

This is doing the rounds today. Apparently the woman who ended up pulling the gun had bumped into a young girl while in a shop and was confronted outside by what appears to be family. In the video the woman looks as, if she's blocked in with her path being blocked. The woman are incoherent and show no signs of wanting to de-escalate the situation and also the use of a racial slur against that man didn't help. They blocked the car, the camera panned down coincidentally but with he mic still working.

The man and woman were arrested but then were released not so long after. They said they couldn’t arrest her because the main antagonist hit their car which they claim was "to stop them from hitting my young girl."

The cancel mob (pro nouns in their bio) are calling for personal details and want her to loose her job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZhdMcrBuDU

This further solidifies my point that a lot of these incidents are escalated for dramatic effect so that it can be video'd and be used by BLM activists. All it takes is for the smallest of reasons for a person to become the antagonist and victim.

1800_Ladladlad

This is the original tweet

https://twitter.com/makaysmith10/status/1278533303847583746

Cupatae

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

This is doing the rounds today. Apparently the woman who ended up pulling the gun had bumped into a young girl while in a shop and was confronted outside by what appears to be family. In the video the woman looks as, if she's blocked in with her path being blocked. The woman are incoherent and show no signs of wanting to de-escalate the situation and also the use of a racial slur against that man didn't help. They blocked the car, the camera panned down coincidentally but with he mic still working.

The man and woman were arrested but then were released not so long after. They said they couldn’t arrest her because the main antagonist hit their car which they claim was "to stop them from hitting my young girl."

The cancel mob (pro nouns in their bio) are calling for personal details and want her to loose her job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZhdMcrBuDU

This further solidifies my point that a lot of these incidents are escalated for dramatic effect so that it can be video'd and be used by BLM activists. All it takes is for the smallest of reasons for a person to become the antagonist and victim.

Black woman No1 "Ill beat your *white ass* too"

Black woman No:2 immediately after, "You are very racist and ignorant" :pac:

She was dead right to pull the gun and defend herself from people that persistently attacked and threatened them, thats what concealed carry is for.

Cupatae

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

This is the original tweet

https://twitter.com/makaysmith10/status/1278533303847583746

The comments under that tweet show exactly why america is up in a heap.

Cupatae

Cupatae wrote: »

Black woman No1 "Ill beat your *white ass* too"

Black woman No:2 immediately after, "You are very racist and ignorant" :pac:

She was dead right to pull the gun and defend herself from people that persistently attacked and threatened them, thats what concealed carry is for.

I agree. The white couple were set up. It's obvious throughout the video that the Black woman was looking for trouble. Probably hoping to sue them later.

The comments are horrendous.

"@makaysmith10
Systemic racism at it’s finest. Took their guns. No arrests. File a civil suit? The tricky part will be the grounds for a civil suit. This might be an intentional tort. I googled it. I’m not a lawyer so please consult one! These situations have to stop!!!!!"

How can anyone be this dumb?

Cupatae

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree. The white couple were set up. It's obvious throughout the video that the Black woman was looking for trouble. Probably hoping to sue them later.

The comments are horrendous.

"@makaysmith10
Systemic racism at it’s finest. Took their guns. No arrests. File a civil suit? The tricky part will be the grounds for a civil suit. This might be an intentional tort. I googled it. I’m not a lawyer so please consult one! These situations have to stop!!!!!"

How can anyone be this dumb?

Some of the comments are mind boggling... the sad thing is they genuinely believe in what they are saying..

JimmyVik

Cupatae wrote: »

Black woman No1 "Ill beat your *white ass* too"

Black woman No:2 immediately after, "You are very racist and ignorant" :pac:

She was dead right to pull the gun and defend herself from people that persistently attacked and threatened them, thats what concealed carry is for.

Im on the white womans side. But see what happens when you escalate yourself.
She pulled a gun. Then she is scared because now she has to back up unless she actually uses it. I get she was scared and pushed into it and that over there she is entitled to defend herself with a gun, put pulling it was a bad idea.


Anyway this isnt about gun laws I guess so im going off topic.
She was attacked because she was white. These people saw a victim and did their best to exploit the situation for their own ends. And that is being propogated on twitter.

Cupatae

Cupatae wrote: »

Some of the comments are mind boggling... the sad thing is they genuinely believe in what they are saying..

Sad? I find it more scary than anything else. I'd forgotten just how nutty Americans are... Imagine if that happened to you... You bump into someone by accident, and they start videoing while going mental at you. Nobody should have to tolerate that.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

Im on the white womans side. But see what happens when you escalate yourself.
She pulled a gun. Then she is scared because now she has to back up unless she actually uses it. I get she was scared and pushed into it and that over there she is entitled to defend herself with a gun, put pulling it was a bad idea.

She escalated when her car was hit. My reaction would have been to drive away regardless but, I understand that many Americans feel the need to protect their right to defend themselves.

She pulled it. She didn't use it. TBH the Mother was worse because she was aggressive throughout and was the one who hit the car... Although how did she manage to hit it? the comments say she hit it with her hand, but she was some distance from the car when the noise came on the video...

I admire the husbands restraint. Smart man. Imagine if it had been a white man who responded to the Black womans behavior? Ouch.

Anyway this isnt about gun laws I guess so im going off topic.
She was attacked because she was white. These people saw a victim and did their best to exploit the situation for their own ends. And that is being propogated on twitter.

Agreed.

BloodBath

JimmyVik wrote: »

My friend is black.
He works in the same job as me. Gets paid the same as me. But he is always going on about how people are racist to him.
Now I dont doubt that he has had this at times, but he now attributes everything to racism.
I could give loads of examples, but here is one that happened just after Christmas this year.
We are driving home late one night and got pulled over by the cops.
they breathalyzed me and my friend starts muttering under his breath.
The cop asked him what he was saying and he got cheeky.
We were both then asked to get out of the car and given a dressing down for acting the pr!ck, which he was but I wasnt.
So as we were pulling away he bangs the dash and says "see, they only stopped us because I was black and then they pulled us out of the car because I was black".

Now I tried to explain to him that all the cars stopped and breathalyzed around us hardly contained black guys. And we only got further attention because he was acting the pr!ck. I pointed out to him that I also got guff off the cop and none of it would have happened if he had sat there and been quiet while I blew into the bag.

He didnt talk to me for days. And its not the first time something along similar lines has happened. He sees racism everywhere. Probably thinks I was racist for not agreeing it was racist.

When I worked in the US I worked with so many black guys who were the same. Always looking for a racist angle. And actually being racist against whites and latinos themselves and just not seeing it. Not all mind you, but a lot. And I could tell you which ones it would be that would be like that, once I heard where they grew up.

Ive loads more stories like that, but I would just bore you to tears. I was just thinking about this one today.

I'd cut him loose. He sounds like an idiot who's going to get you into trouble at some point. Only a matter of time before he accuses you of being racist.

JimmyVik

Deleted User wrote: »

She escalated when her car was hit. My reaction would have been to drive away regardless but, I understand that many Americans feel the need to protect their right to defend themselves.

She pulled it. She didn't use it. TBH the Mother was worse because she was aggressive throughout and was the one who hit the car... Although how did she manage to hit it? the comments say she hit it with her hand, but she was some distance from the car when the noise came on the video...

I admire the husbands restraint. Smart man. Imagine if it had been a white man who responded to the Black womans behavior? Ouch.

Agreed.

The one in red walked in behind it and then gave it a clatter. You can actually see it in the video.


What i meant about pulling the gun was that after she pulled it she clearly didnt want to use it and she ended up backing up. When you get your bluff called its hard to back down with a gun in your hand is what i mean.

JimmyVik

Deleted User wrote: »

Sad? I find it more scary than anything else. I'd forgotten just how nutty Americans are... Imagine if that happened to you... You bump into someone by accident, and they start videoing while going mental at you. Nobody should have to tolerate that.

Watch "Inside The K"

JimmyVik

BloodBath wrote: »

I'd cut him loose. He sounds like an idiot who's going to get you into trouble at some point. Only a matter of time before he accuses you of being racist.

This is bred into him somehow. Dont know how, but it is.
But to be fair, he is a good guy. And a good friend and would do anything for you.

joe40

Did I just watch the same video as everyone else? The rights and wrongs in a verbal altercation fade into insignificance when one of the parties pulls a gun and points it at people. Regardless of race.

Someone could easily have died there, I can't comprehend some of the attitudes here, defending the woman who pulled a gun. Granted the situation was annoying but to escalate to that extent by pulling a gun is mind boggling.

Tony EH

Sinzo wrote: »

That said, white people, as the majority, do have to look at their behaviour and how they deal with blacks.

The majority of white people look at black people the same as they do anyone else. As people, good, bad and indifferent.

That's no to say that some white people aren't racist in some way. A good number would be. But you'll get that amongst every people, regardless of their skin colour.

The problem with the current narrative is that today white people are to feel endlessly guilty about injustices done to black people years before most of them were even born. If anything that's going to breed MORE resentment among those who are already predisposed to being racist in the first place.

There's waaaaay too much generalisation going one with the moves coming from the likes of BLM and silly terms like "white privilege" are of no help whatsoever in highlighting black people's concerns. Especially when it's in a context outside of the U.S. where the civil rights concerns of American black people didn't apply.

America is a sick country, with a rotten past and a putrid present. In all areas of its politics, it absolutely stinks, whether that's domestically or in their foreign affairs. It's run terribly and its political class are either cretinous, downright dangerous, or both. Additionally, their political stew tends to boil over into other countries too, more so since the advent of the internet, as younger folk live their lives on it. What happens in the U.S. is "their" news and they see it as an impact (real or imagined) on their own lives. There's people that know less about their own country than the do about the States and a lot of them haven't even set foot there.

JimmyVik

joe40 wrote: »

Did I just watch the same video as everyone else? The rights and wrongs in a verbal altercation fade into insignificance when one of the parties pulls a gun and points it at people. Regardless of race.

Someone could easily have died there, I can't comprehend some of the attitudes here, defending the woman who pulled a gun. Granted the situation was annoying but to escalate to that extent by pulling a gun is mind boggling.

As I said, I wouldnt have pulled the gun, but she was put under some serious stress. Not surprised she snepped. That bang at the back of the car she probably thought someone was even shooting at her, or that shed run over someone. Lost the head. Respect to her for staying cool as long as she did.

Tony EH

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZhdMcrBuDU

What a stupid, stupid, country. :rolleyes: