The trashing of our parks and beaches

It is all to do with public verse private wealth and bing a post-colonial society he public goods and building were associated with the colonial classes although we should be over it by now.

eleventh

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Or in Australia, those coin operated ones in the parks. They are always left ABSOLUTELY SPOTLESS.

Here, I bet you'd have to clean it before you use it, and some people would clean it afterwards, but as usual there would be a cohort who would think "the council should provide somebody to clean it for me after I use it"..

I wonder if there's an urban/rural divide much? I spend time down the country now and then. Anytime I've gone for a picnic there it is spotless. A table used by a group is left clean afterwards. Part of it could be there's other people around(near enough to see from a distance), as well as the fact there's more of a chance people will know each other.

Should really be litter wardens in every park I think. For isolated areas, that's not possible though obviously.

Strumms

I can’t say about all parks but the park near us here used to have staff 5/6 days a week, now the only staff you see are to open in the morning and close in the night....otherwise it’s people cutting the grass, litter pick up and general maintenance..

There is a lockup for the lawn mowers, marking for pitches and miscellaneous tools and stuff for the tennis court as and when, but no staff based there at all. The offices were removed about 15 years ago.

So zero active deterrent... at least previously if there was antisocial carry on or people known to the staff they could call the Gardai.

whisky_galore

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

This thread is proof that the place will always be a littered kip. Do you people think if you're hiking around Glendalough or somewhere you can just throw your rubbish on the ground because you can't see a bin? Bizarre attitudes on display.

Saw an article on a park where there was an unwillingness to install bins for the usual reasons and getting comments along the lines of "but what about my dog, where am I going to put his shyte? In my bag where I've got my lunch in?"

Like, have another bag, that doesn't have your lunch in it?
Duh.

Like bag for life next to a bin mentioned above theres absolutely mind blowing levels of utter stupidity in the general public.

byhookorbycrook

Like those who think that not meeting a Garda checkpoint means they can travel at will, those who think leaving their rubbish for others to pick up is ok.
I work with primary aged children. 10 year old children know the difference between their own moral code vs. legally reinforced rules .Why don’t adults ?

FTA69

mariaalice wrote: »

It is all to do with public verse private wealth and bing a post-colonial society he public goods and building were associated with the colonial classes although we should be over it by now.

I don’t know about that. England was the colonising country and they’re dirty messy b*stands as well. Around me there’s sh*te strewn everywhere.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

I don’t know about that. England was the colonising country and they’re dirty messy b*stands as well. Around me there’s sh*te strewn everywhere.

It more than the colonised don't identify with public property, its identified with the ruling class, parks, and public space, in general, is associated with the ruling class so no sense of ownership.

There is a long tradition of public wealth in nordic countries i.e a sense that it's all owned collectively goes back to Viking time hence there is a different attitude to public property.

JPup

eleventh wrote: »

I wonder if there's an urban/rural divide much? I spend time down the country now and then. Anytime I've gone for a picnic there it is spotless. A table used by a group is left clean afterwards. Part of it could be there's other people around(near enough to see from a distance), as well as the fact there's more of a chance people will know each other.

Should really be litter wardens in every park I think. For isolated areas, that's not possible though obviously.

There’s a big difference between families out for a picnic in the day time (no litter problem there in Ireland either) and teenagers and young adults drinking in a park at night (big problem, made much worse because all the pubs are closed).

PhilOssophy

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Or in Australia, those coin operated ones in the parks. They are always left ABSOLUTELY SPOTLESS.

Here, I bet you'd have to clean it before you use it, and some people would clean it afterwards, but as usual there would be a cohort who would think "the council should provide somebody to clean it for me after I use it".

I guess these countries just have a "this is everybody's park, I will leave it as I would like to get it" attitude. Not playing the victim of some awful problem such as bringing what you bring into the park, home with you.

The other funny one I've noticed of late is the amount of "Bags for life" which are left beside the bin. So you've paid a euro for this re-usable bag and left it beside the bin - getting that much lifted in your green bin would probably cost 20c.

Plenty of those public barbecues in Sydney were even free and always left in good condition for the next user.

If we had them here I guarantee it wouldn't be long before some idiot put a dog turd on top and switched the machine on to ruin it for everyone.

Effects

JPup wrote: »

teenagers and young adults drinking in a park at night (big problem, made much worse because all the pubs are closed).

They've been drinking on a green close to my house more frequently the last couple of weeks. 90% clean up their empty glasses/cans and bring them home or bin them on the way. A lot more than I would have expected to be honest.

Montage of Feck

Are the likes of McDonald's or the innumerable coffee places in anyway responsible for where their packaging ends up? Along with energy drinks they seem to be the most common things chucked out car windows along the side of the road.

murpho999

The drink can and bottle problem would be solved overnight by introducing the deposit scheme they have been taking about for years.

They've had this in other countries in North Europe for years and it work well.

30ct per item deposit would ensure people would bring their empties back. Only hassle is for retailer who'd have to install machines and storage areas but it definitely works.

murpho999

downtheroad wrote: »

Plenty of those public barbecues in Sydney were even free and always left in good condition for the next user.

If we had them here I guarantee it wouldn't be long before some idiot put a dog turd on top and switched the machine on to ruin it for everyone.

Don't agree with this as it's simply that in Australia there's a barbecue culture that has existed for years and it has become the norm.

Other countries have litter problems too, Ireland is not unique with this problem.

malinheader

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Are the likes of McDonald's or the innumerable coffee places in anyway responsible for where their packaging ends up? Along with energy drinks they seem to be the most common things chucked out car windows along the side of the road.

Not at all. But 100% should be.
Worse thing is it's not really needed, it's only cosmetic and advertising packaging.

PhilOssophy

murpho999 wrote: »

Don't agree with this as it's simply that in Australia there's a barbecue culture that has existed for years and it has become the norm.

Other countries have litter problems too, Ireland is not unique with this problem.

That is complete BS - we should be able to learn how to conduct ourselves. It seems the only culture in Ireland is blame - "there's no bin so I'll just leave my s**t here rather than bring it home"

eleventh wrote: »

I wonder if there's an urban/rural divide much? I spend time down the country now and then. Anytime I've gone for a picnic there it is spotless. A table used by a group is left clean afterwards. Part of it could be there's other people around(near enough to see from a distance), as well as the fact there's more of a chance people will know each other.

Should really be litter wardens in every park I think. For isolated areas, that's not possible though obviously.

I don't think so - I think down the country has the same problem. Litter wardens are pointless in Ireland, even Gardai aren't able to get people to pay fines.

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Are the likes of McDonald's or the innumerable coffee places in anyway responsible for where their packaging ends up? Along with energy drinks they seem to be the most common things chucked out car windows along the side of the road.

Its a good question - why do you get a big bag with a McDonalds order? Maybe they need to start charging for takeaway packaging?

Mimon

eleventh wrote: »

I wonder if there's an urban/rural divide much? I spend time down the country now and then. Anytime I've gone for a picnic there it is spotless. A table used by a group is left clean afterwards. Part of it could be there's other people around(near enough to see from a distance), as well as the fact there's more of a chance people will know each other.

Should really be litter wardens in every park I think. For isolated areas, that's not possible though obviously.

Country is no better for me. The country roads around me are full of litter. A Supermacs opened a couple of years ago and you see the remnants strewn everywhere.

Seems to be a thing in the country to do stupid things like burning plastic instead of disposing of it properly.

Mimon

PhilOssophy wrote: »

That is complete BS - we should be able to learn how to conduct ourselves. It seems the only culture in Ireland is blame - "there's no bin so I'll just leave my s**t here rather than bring it home"



I don't think so - I think down the country has the same problem. Litter wardens are pointless in Ireland, even Gardai aren't able to get people to pay fines.



Its a good question - why do you get a big bag with a McDonalds order? Maybe they need to start charging for takeaway packaging?

Biodegradable packaging would help.

PhilOssophy

Mimon wrote: »

Biodegradable packaging would help.

It wouldn't get over the problem we are trying to solve here though.

PhilOssophy

Mimon wrote: »

Seems to be a thing in the country to do stupid things like burning plastic instead of disposing of it properly.

It is all back to the same problem. We are financially rewarding fly tipping, burning rubbish, etc.

Hence my proposal above to add an average bin charge to the property tax, flat fee, job done. We are too immature as a country to do pay by weight, or the 10% who do all of this damage are anyway.

At least with such a system, coupled with a deposit return scheme we can have a bin on every corner and there is no incentive for somebody to dump their household waste, nor penalty for deciding to bring your rubbish home if it is full.

Mimon

PhilOssophy wrote: »

It wouldn't get over the problem we are trying to solve here though.

Yes, Didn't explain it well. Was thinking about the rubbish that people throw along the roads. At least it would break down in a few months.

Must contact Mr McDonagh to see would he get out with a rubbish picker and bag and tidy up the rubbish that originates from his place.

When our litter problems start to affect tourism numbers / reviews then and only then will anything be be done.

PhilOssophy

Mimon wrote: »

Yes, Didn't explain it well. Was thinking about the rubbish that people throw along the roads. At least it would break down in a few months.

Must contact Mr McDonagh to see would he get out with a rubbish picker and bag and tidy up the rubbish that originates from his place.

I don't want to look at it while it decomposes to be honest!

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

The drink can and bottle problem would be solved overnight by introducing the deposit scheme they have been taking about for years.

They've had this in other countries in North Europe for years and it work well.

30ct per item deposit would ensure people would bring their empties back. Only hassle is for retailer who'd have to install machines and storage areas but it definitely works.

Ireland used to have it. I believe that there are other influences on government against this. The recycling companies.

PhilOssophy

I also went to the trouble of writing to Eamon Ryan on this - I got some BS response back from him. It was like Fr. Ted "that would be an ecumenical matter".
He has bleated about this for years and now that he's in a position to fix it, he has done nothing....except tell us to grow salads in our window boxes.
I would encourage people to write to him to complain about the problem though - need to keep up the pressure.

On a side note, I definitely think there is an improvement on the dog poo front - my walking/running route definitely has less on it these days. I also see a lot more people bent over cleaning it up. Maybe we need a similar awareness on the rubbish problem?

Mimon

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I don't want to look at it while it decomposes to be honest!

Better than looking at it for years/decades as is the case now.

PhilOssophy

Mimon wrote: »

Better than looking at it for years/decades as is the case now.

Well here's an idea - bring the crap home. Nobody has to look at it for a minute then. Result.

If we have reached a point where the solution is looking at this for months because people have thrown it out the window, then there really is no hope.

Effects

murpho999 wrote: »

The drink can and bottle problem would be solved overnight by introducing the deposit scheme they have been taking about for years.

No it won't. Someone drinking a 6 pack of Karpackie isn't going to bother bringing their empty cans with them in order to get €1.80 when they bring them back to the shop.

Effects

Effects wrote: »

No it won't. Someone drinking a 6 pack of Karpackie isn't going to bother bringing their empty cans with them in order to get €1.80 when they bring them back to the shop.

Others will though. People can earn a few quid picking them up. What damage can having this policy in play do ?

murpho999

PhilOssophy wrote: »

That is complete BS - we should be able to learn how to conduct ourselves. It seems the only culture in Ireland is blame - "there's no bin so I'll just leave my s**t here rather than bring it home"

No it's not BS. The Australia example is true about the BBQ as it's a cultural thing but Australia has a litter problem just like here as shown below. Pictures and article from Sydney.


R


https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australians-still-trashing-their-beaches-and-streets-national-report-finds-20180124-h0n9ar.html

So my point is there's no need to generalise and run Ireland down as a lot of Boards posters want to do.
The rubbish we see in parks and beaches are left there by a selfish and idiotic minority but it has a large and very visual impact but it does not mean it's our culture or everybody does it.

Ninap

Kenya Crooked Tarp wrote: »

Others will though. People can earn a few quid picking them up. What damage can having this policy in play do ?

Yup. New York, for example, has a thriving subculture of plastic bottle collectors (who sell bags of them to guys who bring them for refund in New Jersey)