The trashing of our parks and beaches

Strumms

There are no staff in our local park, there used to be up to a few years ago but they were removed, office included... and instead a new lock up / garage was built for tractors, gardening gear etc... so you might only have workers there visiting for a handful of hours a week..opening up, locking up, emptying bins, marking pitches and cutting grass.

Since that happened there has been a load more anti social behavior, I saw a thread here about trees being destroyed willfully by kids with poles, nets in the tennis courts wrecked and general prickishess in the same park... an area that has an entrance to the south of the park can be a bit lively... the other surrounding areas generally grand.

It’s annoying, there has been a six figure upgrade fund approved and they’ve already done a brilliant job with the tennis courts, resurfaced, new nets, fencing and generally improving the environment.. an approval has been given to install cctv which was funnily enough objected to by the local Independent councilor.

PhilOssophy

eleventh wrote: »

A place is built, it is supervised/managed. There can be cameras / security as needed. It's basic stuff. Considering pubs, restaurants, everything closed.
In a sane society they would be up already. Not difficult to do. Would cost little to run. It would mean people could go out for the day.

Would cost little to run - have you a figure for "little"?

eleventh

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Would cost little to run - have you a figure for "little"?

No, I don't but compared to the money wasted on things that it should not be spent on in the first place there is obviously money there.
People pay tax. Where does it go.
This is exactly the type of service that tax money should be spent on, something people need and would use.

Pawwed Rig

eleventh wrote: »

No, I don't but compared to the money wasted on things that it should not be spent on in the first place there is obviously money there.
People pay tax. Where does it go.
This is exactly the type of service that tax money should be spent on, something people need and would use.

They could reallocate all the govt money spent on greyhound racing to public toilets

PhilOssophy

eleventh wrote: »

No, I don't but compared to the money wasted on things that it should not be spent on in the first place there is obviously money there.
People pay tax. Where does it go.
This is exactly the type of service that tax money should be spent on, something people need and would use.

See there's the nub of the problem - if the government came out and said they spent 25m running a public toilet, and all of it was spent on some cleaning company, there would be all sorts of outrage.

Why not just make a user pay 10/20c per use, and let the thing fund itself? Pay a private company to clean them hourly, job done.

Its not good enough to just say "oh well we waste money elsewhere so lets do it here". Services cost money and I would prefer to spend 10c every time I needed to use a public toilet than have a fortune spent on them by the tax payer. Because we all know, the cost starts off as X and before we know it it is Y, Y being significantly greater than X.

To those who say more bins aren't the solution, I just took this photo in St Anne's Park. Plenty more examples around the park of bags filled with empties and left by a bin. It would of course be even better if the bags were brought home by the drinkers, but this is a million times better than leaving them scattered in a field.

PhilOssophy

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ireland-should-include-glass-bottles-in-deposit-return-scheme-danish-experts-1.4546890

No doubt we will go against the experience of elsewhere and make a balls of it. But not operational till the 3rd quarter of 2022 - given these are operational elsewhere, why will it have taken Eamon Ryan and his dept. 3 years to get it up and running here?

The local 2 parks I have seen this morning are absolutely destroyed. There was a council worker cleaning the place up. What a depressing nation of scum we are. And this is in a wealthy part of Dublin - so it isn't a class issue.

Thelonious Monk

downtheroad wrote: »

To those who say more bins aren't the solution, I just took this photo in St Anne's Park. Plenty more examples around the park of bags filled with empties and left by a bin. It would of course be even better if the bags were brought home by the drinkers, but this is a million times better than leaving them scattered in a field.

More and bigger bins would just be full anyway on a sunny day. Think of all the people who brought their rubbish home because there were no bins.
Leaving rubbish near a bin is just as bad as littering in my opinion, take it f*cking home.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/vandalism-at-5000-year-old-cairn-at-loughcrew-unlikely-to-be-reparable-40366462.html

lawred2

Kenya Crooked Tarp wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/vandalism-at-5000-year-old-cairn-at-loughcrew-unlikely-to-be-reparable-40366462.html

Jesus I was only there last week



Looks like the work of a young kid not really understanding the gravity of what he was doing.. Didn't seem like the place that the usual scrotes would congregate..

Hoof Hearted2

Kenya Crooked Tarp wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/vandalism-at-5000-year-old-cairn-at-loughcrew-unlikely-to-be-reparable-40366462.html

OMG A stone was etched with another stone, I'm like so outraged right now,
who do I direct my rage at, point the way my good man!

EddieN75

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

OMG A stone was etched with another stone, I'm like so outraged right now,
who do I direct my rage at, point the way my good man!

"The stones which were scratched are part of a megalithic tomb Cairn U, which is estimated to be more than 5,000 years old"

“In one or two cases, the graffiti was actually scratched upon pre-existing megalithic art. This is precious artwork dating back more than five millennia ago”.

conorhal

Strumms wrote: »

There are no staff in our local park, there used to be up to a few years ago but they were removed, office included... and instead a new lock up / garage was built for tractors, gardening gear etc... so you might only have workers there visiting for a handful of hours a week..opening up, locking up, emptying bins, marking pitches and cutting grass.

Since that happened there has been a load more anti social behavior, I saw a thread here about trees being destroyed willfully by kids with poles, nets in the tennis courts wrecked and general prickishess in the same park... an area that has an entrance to the south of the park can be a bit lively... the other surrounding areas generally grand.

It’s annoying, there has been a six figure upgrade fund approved and they’ve already done a brilliant job with the tennis courts, resurfaced, new nets, fencing and generally improving the environment.. an approval has been given to install cctv which was funnily enough objected to by the local Independent councilor.

My grandfather was a bus conductor, and an amateur boxer, needless to say there was no messing on his route. It's amazing how well ordered things can be when someone is there to enforce that order. You only have to look at what a filthy antisocial mess the busses have become since bus conductors were deemed no longer necessary or efficient. People will tell you 'putting bins on streets makes no difference', they're half right. You need both bins AND the enforcement of litter laws.

You walk down any major European capital's streets (or at least the ones that are spotlessly clean) and you'll notice constant foot patrols of police, street cleaners going about their business, the adequate provision of bins in public spaces, public toilets with attendants etc.
Like the busses, our parks and streets have all gone to hell in a handbasket because of the constant withdrawal of services and effective management by the government.
They take away services and shrug when, predictably, the issues that used to be addressed by those services spiral out of control.
Rates are massive on businesses, every household since 2013 has been paying property taxes, which we are told is for the provision of the services that maintain our streets and neighbourhoods but in fact we seem to get less for them than we did before we paid them and services have gotten exponentially worse.
The real problem that needs to be addressed is the utter neglect of public spaces by the government and local councils, who are more eager to withdraw services or hand them off to the private sector while charging you for them none-the-less. Civic duty needs to start from the top.

Elmo

conorhal wrote: »

My grandfather was a bus conductor, and an amateur boxer, needless to say there was no messing on his route. It's amazing how well ordered things can be when someone is there to enforce that order. You only have to look at what a filthy antisocial mess the busses have become since bus conductors were deemed no longer necessary or efficient. People will tell you 'putting bins on streets makes no difference', they're half right. You need both bins AND the enforcement of litter laws.

Even just having staff around helps. I was at a meeting re the new bus route plan. And the PR person from Iarnród Éireann couldn't understand that if you were to put staff in the office around the DART station in Howth Junction the level of anti-social behaviour would drop. The staff together would help to turn off the ASBs.

Hoof Hearted2

EddieN75 wrote: »

"The stones which were scratched are part of a megalithic tomb Cairn U, which is estimated to be more than 5,000 years old"

“In one or two cases, the graffiti was actually scratched upon pre-existing megalithic art. This is precious artwork dating back more than five millennia ago”.

The import you and others place on these structures are a complete mystery to me.

Hopefully in another 5,000 years times, the suitably outraged archeologist, won't be so outraged when the next young ruffian, scratches something over the precious artwork, "ben was here".

EddieN75

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

The import you and others place on these structures are a complete mystery to me.

Hopefully in another 5,000 years times, the suitably outraged archeologist, won't be so outraged when the next young ruffian, scratches something over the precious artwork, "ben was here".

I'm sure there are plenty of things that are a mystery to you.
Such is life

Hoof Hearted2

EddieN75 wrote: »

I'm sure there are plenty of things that are a mystery to you.
Such is life

There are indeed Eddie, and it's a fun way to view things, try it you might like it!

EddieN75

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

There are indeed Eddie, and it's a fun way to view things, try it you might like it!

If you don't understand it mock it and also mock people who are interested in it.

Not my idea of enjoyment hoof.

Biker79

Amazing how sheer ignorance and entitlement has become normalized among a certain generation in Ireland.

This generation are not fit for purpose. Thank f**k the robots will be taking over.

PhilOssophy

conorhal wrote: »

My grandfather was a bus conductor, and an amateur boxer, needless to say there was no messing on his route. It's amazing how well ordered things can be when someone is there to enforce that order. You only have to look at what a filthy antisocial mess the busses have become since bus conductors were deemed no longer necessary or efficient. People will tell you 'putting bins on streets makes no difference', they're half right. You need both bins AND the enforcement of litter laws.

You walk down any major European capital's streets (or at least the ones that are spotlessly clean) and you'll notice constant foot patrols of police, street cleaners going about their business, the adequate provision of bins in public spaces, public toilets with attendants etc.
Like the busses, our parks and streets have all gone to hell in a handbasket because of the constant withdrawal of services and effective management by the government.
They take away services and shrug when, predictably, the issues that used to be addressed by those services spiral out of control.
Rates are massive on businesses, every household since 2013 has been paying property taxes, which we are told is for the provision of the services that maintain our streets and neighbourhoods but in fact we seem to get less for them than we did before we paid them and services have gotten exponentially worse.
The real problem that needs to be addressed is the utter neglect of public spaces by the government and local councils, who are more eager to withdraw services or hand them off to the private sector while charging you for them none-the-less. Civic duty needs to start from the top.

Civic duty starts from the bottom, there is a clue in the name.

I actually think our public spaces are in better shape now than they have been for a very long time. If you go to any of our parks or beaches on a random Tuesday, they are for the most part impeccable.

If you go there any time from Friday to Monday, there is inevitably the scars of what has gone on over the weekend because people are too lazy to bring their stuff home with them. The "shoulder shrug" because the bin is full is just an excuse. People got their tubby ass and their beer and pizza box to the park, they can get it home with them too.

Hoof Hearted2

EddieN75 wrote: »

If you don't understand it mock it and also mock people who are interested in it.

Not my idea of enjoyment hoof.

How you assume I don't understand it, is also now added to my list of mysterious stuff.

whisky_galore

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

OMG A stone was etched with another stone, I'm like so outraged right now,
who do I direct my rage at, point the way my good man!

The 'erra shur tis grand' knuckledraggers have chimed in...knowing the price of everything and value of nothing.
Ah shur tis only an auld shtone. We might as well all sign our names on it shur

EddieN75

whisky_galore wrote: »

The 'erra shur tis grand' knuckledraggers have chimed in...knowing the price of everything and value of nothing.
Ah shur tis only an auld shtone. We might as well all sign our names on it shur

Yara iv an auld field full of shtones. Not good for nothing.

conorhal

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

More and bigger bins would just be full anyway on a sunny day. Think of all the people who brought their rubbish home because there were no bins.
Leaving rubbish near a bin is just as bad as littering in my opinion, take it f*cking home.

On a sunny day, with exponentially more users of an amenity.... the bins are full.. Who could have imagined or predicted such a thing? (certiantly not the clowns we have in charge that's for sure) How could this possibly be planned for?

How about having bins emptied at sufficient intervals during the summer months so that they're not overflowing? Just a wild thought!

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Civic duty starts from the bottom, there is a clue in the name.

I actually think our public spaces are in better shape now than they have been for a very long time. If you go to any of our parks or beaches on a random Tuesday, they are for the most part impeccable.

If you go there any time from Friday to Monday, there is inevitably the scars of what has gone on over the weekend because people are too lazy to bring their stuff home with them. The "shoulder shrug" because the bin is full is just an excuse. People got their tubby ass and their beer and pizza box to the park, they can get it home with them too.

I think my post just explained to you that's bu11sh1t.
A culture of accountability and civility comes from the top and they're maintained by enforcement and example.
Remove enforcement and example and tell me just how long you think civility lasts?
Do you think 'civic duty' is some natural human state that exists outside of it's imposition by authority? I put it to you that it does not.
Duty, noun: a task or action that one is required to perform

PhilOssophy

conorhal wrote: »

On a sunny day, with exponentially more users of an amenity.... the bins are full.. Who could have imagined or predicted such a thing? (certiantly not the clowns we have in charge that's for sure) How could this possibly be planned for?

How about having bins emptied at sufficient intervals during the summer months so that they're not overflowing? Just a wild thought!




I think my post just explained to you that's bu11sh1t.
A culture of accountability and civility comes from the top and they're maintained by enforcement and example.
Remove enforcement and example and tell me just how long you think civility lasts?
Do you think 'civic duty' is some natural human state that exists outside of it's imposition by authority? I put it to you that it does not.
Duty, noun: a task or action that one is required to perform

OK, calm down, deep breaths dude.
You cannot police every corner of the island like you are proposing.
Australia has millions of acres of parks and wilderness and they have a civic pride of "leave no trace", and their parks are spotless.
Paddy wants more places to throw his rubbish around the place and will throw it in a ditch in a remote part because "there's no bin here".

Definitions of civic duty
noun - the responsibilities of a citizen

Civic duty is a human state that doesn't need imposition by authority, but I think if I have to argue with you that "doing the right thing" has to be enforced by somebody with a stick, rather than it being an altruistic task to leave our streets/parks/mountains in the condition you want to get them in, there is no further debate to be had.

conorhal

PhilOssophy wrote: »

OK, calm down, deep breaths dude.

Like a sweetie wrapper on the ground soon joined by another, a condescending response gets a condescending reply. Calm down yourself and dare I say it, be civil!

PhilOssophy wrote: »

You cannot police every corner of the island like you are proposing.

I'm not proposing that, you're strawmanning.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Civic duty is a human state that doesn't need imposition by authority, but I think if I have to argue with you that "doing the right thing" has to be enforced by somebody with a stick, rather than it being an altruistic task to leave our streets/parks/mountains in the condition you want to get them in, there is no further debate to be had.

I disagree, as I pointed out, remove the authority and see where you get on civic duty alone. It's a nice idea in principle, in practice though...
By your logic we might as well disband the police force, sure what's the need of it?
As I pointed out, it's 50% enforcement, 50% example.
The example of those supposed to inforce it is that of evasion of responsibility and so we are lead by example.


Next you'll be telling me that the civil service is both civil and of service, and inately so because sure isn't it right there in the name!

PhilOssophy

Civic duty is 0% enforcement, 100% not being a scumbag.

I am never going to leave any park/beach/mountain covered in my crap just because there isn't a litter warden there. If you don't agree, then that is your problem.

Ignore list.

Thelonious Monk

conorhal wrote: »

On a sunny day, with exponentially more users of an amenity.... the bins are full.. Who could have imagined or predicted such a thing? (certiantly not the clowns we have in charge that's for sure) How could this possibly be planned for?

How about having bins emptied at sufficient intervals during the summer months so that they're not overflowing? Just a wild thought!required to perform

No f*ck that. Onus should be on the public to take care of their rubbish, the council do enough.
Where does it end too? There are secluded beaches around Ireland with no bins on them, if groups decide to descend on it one day to party should the council be following them and cleaning up after them?
I did the loop hike in Glendalough last year and there was one spot where lots of people had stopped to have lunch and tea from flasks etc. There were no bins.
Do you want bins in these places too? Where does it end?
People are just walking away from their mess without even attempting to clean it up half the time, or leaving it beside full bins. You could always just walk till you find a bin that isn't full, or take it home.
There are no excuses, none.

Yeah_Right

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

OMG A stone was etched with another stone, I'm like so outraged right now,
who do I direct my rage at, point the way my good man!

Based on your comments, I'm going to assume that you are one of the people that just leaves their trash behind for others to pick up.

https://www.thejournal.ie/meath-neolithic-monument-graffiti-5424080-Apr2021/

More of it