Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

hmmm

TheDriver wrote: »

In regular life, correct. In this scaremongering "We're not there yet" stay inside or else 3 months we've endured, then yes, society of that nature is falling apart. Animal Farm: the people eventually revolt

I don't think an attempt to suppress a dangerous virus transmitting in the community is similar in any way to Communism. You're being asked to make a sacrifice on behalf of the community as a whole - you can find whatever excuse you want as to why you are cleverer/more important than everyone else and this doesn't apply to you, but don't dress it up as some sort of noble crusade you are taking part in.

Its all just getting so silly in Ireland now that nobody could be bothered anymore anyways.
There will be a meeting on Friday to see if we are ok to move to phase 2... Have a good look at phase 2. Its essentially another 3 weeks of lockdown anyways.

We still have these ridiculous travel limits in place. 20KM is not very far at all. My family and most friends live more than 20KM from me. The nearest beach is about 30KM. I imagine a lot of people are in the same boat.

If the government want to get the people back onside, they need to immediately drop the 5km, 20km. Reduce the distancing to 1M. Open some bloody public toilets!
Let some shops actually open up! No more mocking people that need some homeware after 3 months.
People have now gone quarter of a year into this with more than 2 months to go. Its getting tedious.

growleaves

hmmm wrote: »

I don't think an attempt to suppress a dangerous virus transmitting in the community is similar in any way to Communism. You're being asked to make a sacrifice on behalf of the community as a whole - you can find whatever excuse you want as to why you are cleverer/more important than everyone else and this doesn't apply to you, but don't dress it up as some sort of noble crusade you are taking part in.

Mr. Hmmm what do you think about a mass gathering of 5,000 people, un-socially-distanced, beginning on O'Connell Street and marching through Dublin?

greensheep777

My sister is convinced she isn't allowed go to the doctor because her doctor is more than 5km away and because it isn't an emergency - she's allowed go, right? To me, healthcare of any kind is "essential", whether it's an emergency or not.

Stuff like this worries me because there's likely many others putting off going for the same reason.

TheDriver

greensheep777 wrote: »

My sister is convinced she isn't allowed go to the doctor because her doctor is more than 5km away and because it isn't an emergency - she's allowed go, right? To me, healthcare of any kind is "essential", whether it's an emergency or not.

Stuff like this worries me because there's likely many others putting off going for the same reason.

Of course she is allowed go. What cop or Government is going to stop her.
If you need something essential, you can travel a reasonable distance for it.

splinter65

greensheep777 wrote: »

Ignore splinter65, they don't even know what day of the week it is, and they won't be at Tramore either. Apparently female flesh is some sort of covid magnet.

Ah! I have a stalker! How exciting!

Stark

I've been traveling more than 5km for dentist/physio appointments. The 5km limit is only supposed to be for exercise/recreation

stephenjmcd

https://twitter.com/cntrentF24/status/1267783118066458624?s=19

magic17

Deleted User wrote: »

Its all just getting so silly in Ireland now that nobody could be bothered anymore anyways.
There will be a meeting on Friday to see if we are ok to move to phase 2... Have a good look at phase 2. Its essentially another 3 weeks of lockdown anyways.

We still have these ridiculous travel limits in place. 20KM is not very far at all. My family and most friends live more than 20KM from me. The nearest beach is about 30KM. I imagine a lot of people are in the same boat.

If the government want to get the people back onside, they need to immediately drop the 5km, 20km. Reduce the distancing to 1M. Open some bloody public toilets!
Let some shops actually open up! No more mocking people that need some homeware after 3 months.
People have now gone quarter of a year into this with more than 2 months to go. Its getting tedious.

It's a shambles, the soundbites are already coming out about how we have a tough week ahead to see if we can move to phase 2. We should be skipping straight to phase 3.

Idbatterim

Goebbels would be proud of the propaganda and spin coming from government and nphet!

They're saying today in the media that our hospitals are not fit for purpose. Sure whats going to change on that front on 10th August?
So we're just deliberately creeping along and trying to find any excuse to stall while hoping a better country will give us a treatment /vaccine.

Thats the reality. We are terrified of even a tiny spike in cases. God help us if the numbers increase to 95 or something today. We'll probably scrap phase 2 altogether and close the garden centres / hardware stores opened in phase 1.

facehugger99

magic17 wrote: »

It's a shambles, the soundbites are already coming out about how we have a tough week ahead to see if we can move to phase 2. We should be skipping straight to phase 3.

We should be skipping to phase 5 for everyone other than the easily identifiable 'at-risk' demographics.

It's a complete omnishambles at the moment.

The devastation that's been wrecked on the economy for no good reason defies belief.

Harry Palmr

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Can you imagine we tried something like pedestrianising streets to let restaurants and bars open outside areas here? There would be uproar from people claiming it's part of an anti motorist green agenda.

You need to pay more attention, that's exactly what councils are starting to look at. And yes someone started a thread with exactly that sentiment

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113511142

setanta1984

Deleted User wrote: »

They're saying today in the media that our hospitals are not fit for purpose. Sure whats going to change on that front on 10th August?

Exactly this. It's non-sensical and they should be made to answer this. But yet again these kind of things will go totally unchallenged

is_that_so

setanta1984 wrote: »

Exactly this. It's non-sensical and they should be made to answer this. But yet again these kind of things will go totally unchallenged

They are well-known issues, the COVID-19 situation has shown up how utterly fragile the system is.

Quantum Erasure

faceman wrote: »

With respect I suggest doing some research on the importance of protests and how international support for issues can instigate influence on a domestic level

last big protest about american policy I can remember was over the Iraq invasion, how did that go? I'm sure there's been some over military use of Shannon as well, did we march in solidarity with the victims of Katrina?...

Gael23

The problem is doing anything sensible involves taking even the slightest risk, something Tony won’t do.

is_that_so

Gael23 wrote: »

The problem is doing anything sensible involves taking even the slightest risk, something Tony won’t do.

There are over 40 of them in the NPHET, he's not making a decision in isolation.

Quantum Erasure

is_that_so wrote: »

There are over 40 of them in the NPHET, he's not making a decision in isolation.

well, I hope he's socially distanced, at least

ixoy

Gael23 wrote: »

The problem is doing anything sensible involves taking even the slightest risk, something Tony won’t do.

In Tony's world, we'd be best served medically if we were all locked into our houses because then we couldn't spread the virus. It's up to the government to question Tony then and balance the risks based on what Tony and pals say. They seem to be giving a little too much weight to his predictions is the problem.

ednwireland

once the 20km is in i can get to the border and drive where i want (within NI ) :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D:D

except ill have to isolate when i come back maybe or fill out a form

Gael23

ixoy wrote: »

In Tony's world, we'd be best served medically if we were all locked into our houses because then we couldn't spread the virus. It's up to the government to question Tony then and balance the risks based on what Tony and pals say. They seem to be giving a little too much weight to his predictions is the problem.

This is true. He wanted to lock up the over 70s until August but the government quite rightly stood up to that one

Arghus

the kelt wrote: »

This Kinda shows that you really don’t get it.

The vast majority of people myself included believe the easing of restrictions is far too slow bordering on criminally cowardly.

But that doesn’t mean restrictions should just be thrown out and bang just return to normal life as if there’s no virus at all. That’s why the protest albeit I have no issue with the sentiment does not sit well with me at all.

But what’s worse is the fact that elements in favour of restrictions and pushing that agenda on here will round on a mother feeling suicidal thinking of breaking restrictions and gladly attack others for admitting to breaking restrictions (including taking a cutthroat to one a few nights ago) but wouldn’t dare criticize the protest last night or the various other situations where travellers had free reign to do what they want.

The likes of Simon Harris will condemn people for straying outside their 5k or visiting a relative but they won’t say a word about travellers or the protest yesterday.

I guess it’s the hypocritical nature of a lot of people pushing the lockdown agenda that irks many, ye know suffer with Covid and there’s all the empathy in the world, anything else and it’s well that’s life isn’t it.

I haven't condoned the protest, I've actually said it was a totally stupid idea. I completely disagree with it being held. I have criticised the protest: I don't think it should have happened.

There's a post somewhere further along in the thread which seems to imply that I've "no problem" with it - and of course there's roughly twenty or so thanks immediately after it. Even though it's clearly 100% false.

I find that very indicative of the echo chamber aspects of this thread. People believe what they want to believe and affirm what they want to affirm - even if it's not actually the case. It appears that it's become a question of who is saying something, rather than what they are actually saying.

I can understand the distinction between thinking the restrictions are too draconian, while also disagreeing with the protest being held. I know those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive positions. And some people on here believe that. I know this. Believe it or not I can appreciate nuance. Can everyone in here?

But there has been a strain of commentary in here for weeks and weeks and very vocal contingent of posters - not everybody, but a very sizeable minority - who have been extolling the virtues of any form flouting the restrictions - without any caveats. But suddenly many of those have a huge problem if the restrictions are flouted in the form of a mass public protest, which I'm sure, not so coincidentally, isn't to their ideological inclinations. I find that very... curious.

There's a tiny bit of cognative dissonance going on here in a few places. People will deny it and get agitated, but that's okay.

Ginger n Lemon

Why cant Paschal come out with below? Give us some sense of security??

"France won’t raise raise taxes even with 11% contraction

France won’t raise taxes even with the economy suffering a deeper recession than previously expected because of the coronavirus lockdown, finance minister Bruno Le Maire has said.

The contraction this year will amount to 11 per cent, more than the 8 per cent previously predicted. That’s also more than the 9 per cent slump forecast by economists in a Bloomberg survey.

“Today we have taxation that is very heavy, among the highest of all developed economies so good sense is not to increase pressure on French people,” Le Maire said on French radio RTL. “Yes, debt will have to be paid back, but not by raising taxes – by raising growth.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/france-won-t-raise-raise-taxes-even-with-11-contraction-1.4268666

I'd tell why but some posters will start labelling me as "economic doom" merchant. And I've been heavily battered over my "open up the damn country" antics.

But, forget them, open up the damn country and reduce the need to raise taxes in October!

robbiezero

Arghus wrote: »

I haven't condoned the protest, I've actually said it was a totally stupid idea. I completely disagree with it being held. I have criticised the protest: I don't think it should have happened.

There's a post somewhere further along in the thread which seems to imply that I've "no problem" with it - and of course there's roughly twenty or so thanks immediately after it. Even though it's clearly 100% false. I find that very indicative of the echo chamber aspects of this thread. People believe what they want to believe and affirm what they want to affirm - even if it's not actually the case. It appears that it's become a question of who is saying something, rather than what they are actually saying.

I can understand the distinction between thinking the restrictions are too draconian, while also disagreeing with the protest being held. I know those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive positions. And some people on here believe that. I know this, believe it or not I can appreciate nuance. Can everyone in here?

But there has been a strain of commentary in here for weeks and weeks and very vocal contingent of posters - not everybody, but a very sizeable minority - who have been extolling the virtues of any form flouting the restrictions - without any caveats. But suddenly many of those have a huge problem if the restrictions are flouted in the form of a mass public protest, which I'm sure, not so coincidentally, isn't to their ideological inclinations. I find that very...curious.

There's a tiny bit of cognative dissonance going on here in a few places. People will deny it and get agitated, but that's okay.

I haven't seen anyone advocating for mass gatherings with extremely questionable social distancing to be allowed.

retro:electro

Arghus wrote: »

I haven't condoned the protest, I've actually said it was a totally stupid idea. I completely disagree with it being held. I have criticised the protest: I don't think it should have happened.

There's a post somewhere further along in the thread which seems to imply that I've "no problem" with it - and of course there's roughly twenty or so thanks immediately after it. Even though it's clearly 100% false.

I find that very indicative of the echo chamber aspects of this thread. People believe what they want to believe and affirm what they want to affirm - even if it's not actually the case. It appears that it's become a question of who is saying something, rather than what they are actually saying.

I can understand the distinction between thinking the restrictions are too draconian, while also disagreeing with the protest being held. I know those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive positions. And some people on here believe that. I know this. Believe it or not I can appreciate nuance. Can everyone in here?

But there has been a strain of commentary in here for weeks and weeks and very vocal contingent of posters - not everybody, but a very sizeable minority - who have been extolling the virtues of any form flouting the restrictions - without any caveats. But suddenly many of those have a huge problem if the restrictions are flouted in the form of a mass public protest, which I'm sure, not so coincidentally, isn't to their ideological inclinations. I find that very... curious.

There's a tiny bit of cognative dissonance going on here in a few places. People will deny it and get agitated, but that's okay.

In the same breath you have managed to pat yourself on the back for being able to appreciate nuance, but yet again fail to understand the nuance between people wanting restrictions eased so they can resume working, resume health services, see family travel outside of 5k, see friends and regain a smidgen of sanity after having our lives practically paralysed for the last four months, and being disgusted that there was a mass protest sanctioned yesterday, a protest that had people breaking a spectrum of rules, travelling outside of 5k for, breaking social distance for and possibly spreading the virus en mass - that was green lit and blue ticked by the same person who has restricted our movement for the last four months and intends on doing so for the next two.

Surely with your nuance super power you can manage to see the difference in those two scenarios, and why the resumption of some services that are badly needed four after months on pause on takes precedent over a protest in Dublin, which while it was for a very important cause, could have done waited while we deal with this shlt storm first. I know this has already been explained to you a few times already so I wouldn’t go blowing your own trumpet about how well you can appreciate nuance just yet.

Arghus

robbiezero wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone advocating for mass gatherings with extremely questionable social distancing to be allowed.

There has been people saying mass gatherings should be allowed, there's been a few headers who don't think there should be any restrictions whatsoever. Hopefully they were on the march yesterday - it would be logically consistent at least.

Not everybody, of course. But they exist. If you're not part of that crew, then no problem - then you're one of the more reasonable people who I explicitly made reference to in my previous post.

Arghus

retro:electro wrote: »

In the same breath you have managed to pat yourself on the back for being able to appreciate nuance, but yet again fail to understand the nuance between people wanting restrictions eased so they can resume working, resume health services, see family travel outside of 5k, see friends and regain a smidgen of sanity after having our lives practically paralysed for the last four months, and being disgusted that there was a mass protest sanctioned yesterday, a protest that had people breaking a spectrum of rules, travelling outside of 5k for, breaking social distance for and possibly spreading the virus en mass - that was green lit and blue ticked by the same person who has restricted our movement for the last four months and intends on doing so for the next two.

Surely with your nuance super power you can manage to see the difference in those two scenarios, and why the resumption of some services that are badly needed four after months on pause on takes precedent over a protest in Dublin, which while it was for a very important cause, could have done waited while we deal with this shlt storm first. I know this has already been explained to you a few times already so I wouldn’t go blowing your own trumpet about how well you can appreciate nuance just yet.

I understand your disgust, I actually share your disgust about the protest being held.

That "nuance" reference was at the end of a of paragraph that affirms what you have just said.

greensheep777

splinter65 wrote: »

Ah! I have a stalker! How exciting!

Your short term memory must be very poor if someone remembering a conversation from yesterday counts as being a stalker. Have you figured out what timezone you're in yet? I suppose the days all become the same when you're not working.

growleaves

Arghus wrote: »

I understand your disgust, I actually share your disgust about the protest being held.

However one feels about the restrictions and about complying with them, their selective enforcement hurts the credibility of the whole enterprise.

The 'We're at war' rhetoric (remember that?) begins to look a little sillier in retrospect.

We also get pseudo-scientific baby-talk thrown in for good measure:

'Systemic racism is the real virus'. Gee, how can we stop the spread?