Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Arghus

growleaves wrote: »

However one feels about the restrictions and about complying with them, their selective enforcement hurts the credibility of the whole enterprise.

The 'We're at war' rhetoric (remember that?) begins to look a little sillier in retrospect.

We also get pseudo-scientific baby-talk thrown in for good measure:

'Systemic racism is the real virus'. Gee, how can we stop the spread?

I agree.

There is an absolute hypocrisy on the part of the media and many of our politicians to not voice concerns about a mass public gathering, in the light of everything we've been told over the last few weeks and months.

JPCN1

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Why cant Paschal come out with below? Give us some sense of security??

"France won’t raise raise taxes even with 11% contraction

France won’t raise taxes even with the economy suffering a deeper recession than previously expected because of the coronavirus lockdown, finance minister Bruno Le Maire has said.

The contraction this year will amount to 11 per cent, more than the 8 per cent previously predicted. That’s also more than the 9 per cent slump forecast by economists in a Bloomberg survey.

“Today we have taxation that is very heavy, among the highest of all developed economies so good sense is not to increase pressure on French people,” Le Maire said on French radio RTL. “Yes, debt will have to be paid back, but not by raising taxes – by raising growth.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/france-won-t-raise-raise-taxes-even-with-11-contraction-1.4268666

I'd tell why but some posters will start labelling me as "economic doom" merchant. And I've been heavily battered over my "open up the damn country" antics.

But, forget them, open up the damn country and reduce the need to raise taxes in October!

Pascal, Leo and Simon have eviscerated the SME sector so raising growth will take a miracle.

Ginger n Lemon

Arghus wrote: »

There has been people saying mass gatherings should be allowed, there's been a few headers who don't think there should be any restrictions whatsoever. Hopefully they were on the march yesterday - it would be logically consistent at least.

Not everybody, of course. But they exist. If you're not part of that crew, then no problem - then you're one of the more reasonable people who I explicitly made reference to in my previous post.

Curious to know actually when do you think public gatherings should be allowed?

We need a vaccine first?

We need to triple our ICU capacity first?

We need to eradicate covid first?

Can you please, in your response, show a little bit of realism. I am not banging the drum of lets get football stadiums filled up tomorrow btw, so not one of those "headers" youve described, just curious to see what a common person who is risk averse thinks in terms of you know, society being society again.

greensheep777

12 months from now, the Government will be making every excuse in the book, and claiming they didn't see the economic suicide coming. Even when EVERYONE ELSE is doing differently - beyond the UK.

NegativeCreep

https://www.svp.ie/100svpshopstoreopen8june

SVP to open up 100 of their retail stores next week

Arghus

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Curious to know actually when do you think public gatherings should be allowed?

We need a vaccine first?

We need to triple our ICU capacity first?

We need to eradicate covid first?

Can you please, in your response, show a little bit of realism. I am not banging the drum of lets get football stadiums filled up tomorrow btw, so not one of those "headers" youve described, just curious to see what a common person who is risk averse thinks in terms of you know, society being society again.

When there's no unexplained community transmission.

Start from there.

Ginger n Lemon

Arghus wrote: »

When there's no unexplained community transmission.

So if we have 0 covid cases in Ireland for 4 weeks, Tony H is dancing in euphoria, Simon Harris is mad tweeting "look at the great job people of this country have done from my recommendations", then Jay Z flies in, does a gig in 3 Arena and we have 1000 new cases the following day directly attributable from the people that went to that gig.

We are fine to do some social gathering in the same arena for Beyonce 2 days after, as those covid community transmissions are fully explainable?


What do you think? Would you be eager to go into another lockdown should we have 1000 new cases from Jay Z's gig?

is_that_so

NegativeCreep wrote: »

https://www.svp.ie/100svpshopstoreopen8june

SVP to open up 100 of their retail stores next week

That is excellent news.

Arghus

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

So if we have 0 covid cases in Ireland for 4 weeks, Tony H is dancing in euphoria, Simon Harris is mad tweeting "look at the great job people of this country have done from my recommendations", then Jay Z flies in, does a gig in 3 Arena and we have 1000 new cases the following day directly attributable from the people that went to that gig.

We are fine to do some social gathering in the same arena for Beyonce 2 days after, as those covid community transmissions are fully explainable?


What do you think? Would you be eager to go into another lockdown should we have 1000 new cases from Jay Z's gig?

Now, now. You asked for realism from my post and then your response is a bit all over the place.

Ginger n Lemon

Arghus wrote: »

Now, now. You asked for realism from my post and then your response is a bit all over the place.

Its great talking to you too, as always you either have no response

OR

you link euromomo website and try to scare us with excess deaths, while dismissing any antibody tests/nobel prize winning scientists as "havent been peer reviewed"

NegativeCreep

is_that_so wrote: »

That is excellent news.

It is to be sure. I love going to my local SVP shop for a wander. There’s always something interesting to be found there. Used to volunteer in one when I was in school. Hopefully lots of people go and they can make back some of the money they’ve lost from being closed!

Arghus

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Its great talking to you too, as always you either have no response

OR

you link euromomo website and try to scare us with excess deaths, while dismissing any antibody tests/nobel prize winning scientists as "havent been peer reviewed"

To be fair, I don't think my deepest darkest enemies could accuse me of having no responses.

You asked me a - surprisingly - reasonable and straight question. And asked for realism, which I found a bit comical - considering who was asking, but nonetheless. I gave an answer that I presumed was a good starting off point. The issue is complicated and can't be approached neatly.

Then you responded with a high concept hypothetical, semi-coherent response about a future Jay-Z concert.

Maybe, you're just too smart for me and I have trouble following you.

fleet_admiral

is_that_so wrote: »

That is excellent news.

NCBI shops are open then too

alta stare

NegativeCreep wrote: »

https://www.svp.ie/100svpshopstoreopen8june

SVP to open up 100 of their retail stores next week

The missus told me today that all of the retail shops in and around where she works are getting ready for opening next week.

NegativeCreep

alta stare wrote: »

The missus told me today that all of the retail shops in and around where she works are getting ready for opening next week.

That’s be great. I desperately need a new pair of jeans!

road_high

Arghus wrote: »

I agree.

There is an absolute hypocrisy on the part of the media and many of our politicians to not voice concerns about a mass public gathering, in the light of everything we've been told over the last few weeks and months.

Rte were at pains to tell us how peaceful it was...not a mention of what they’ve been ramming down our throats fur three months. Unbelievable but not surprising give their antecedence

Ginger n Lemon

Arghus wrote: »

To be fair, I don't think my deepest darkest enemies could accuse me of having no responses.

You asked me a - surprisingly - reasonable and straight question. And asked for realism, which I found a bit comical - considering who was asking, but nonetheless. I gave an answer that I presumed was a good starting off point.

Then you responded with a high concept hypothetical, semi-coherent response about a future Jay-Z concert.

Maybe, you're just too smart for me and I have trouble following you.

I am just surprised you think a concert hall with 13,000 capacity (200 + of which will be Jay Z backroom staff/stage performers) full, for 3 - 4 hours without people singing along/shouting, would not result in some people coughing or displaying some worrying symptoms afterwards the next morning, only for these to be tested in our 105,000 testing per week capacity we've been built up, with 1000 coming back as positive, a "not realistic" scenario.

That my friend is called a cluster. You mightve heard about such in meat plants.

I am surprised you think THAT is unrealistic, given that for the past 3 - 4 weeks you've preached nothing but "covid is a highly infectious disease"

PS that in bold you a re almost provoking me

Idbatterim

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Why cant Paschal come out with below? Give us some sense of security??

"France won’t raise raise taxes even with 11% contraction

France won’t raise taxes even with the economy suffering a deeper recession than previously expected because of the coronavirus lockdown, finance minister Bruno Le Maire has said.

The contraction this year will amount to 11 per cent, more than the 8 per cent previously predicted. That’s also more than the 9 per cent slump forecast by economists in a Bloomberg survey.

“Today we have taxation that is very heavy, among the highest of all developed economies so good sense is not to increase pressure on French people,” Le Maire said on French radio RTL. “Yes, debt will have to be paid back, but not by raising taxes – by raising growth.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/france-won-t-raise-raise-taxes-even-with-11-contraction-1.4268666

I'd tell why but some posters will start labelling me as "economic doom" merchant. And I've been heavily battered over my "open up the damn country" antics.

But, forget them, open up the damn country and reduce the need to raise taxes in October!

Guess who will end up paying for tvis **** show brought to you by the muppet show? The very ones varadkar claimed he would reward. The ones paying a marginal tax rate of fifty percent above a pittance. The ones paying e1800 a monthplus force decent apartment in Dublin...

But it will be back to rte to decide on the budget in the autumn. It will be the most vulnerable who need to be protected. The most vulnerable, with free accommodation as they dont pay the pittance in rent due. Guaranteed income. No stress, commute, job, childcare costs. Paid by the gob****e in the property next door often, who better living standard.
Nice e60 gp visits etc.

The gall to slag Americans here with our system, zero law and order. Politicians afraid of their own shadow. Rob from the poor to give to " the poor" the national broadcaster effectively deciding the budget. Lol!

road_high

alta stare wrote: »

The missus told me today that all of the retail shops in and around where she works are getting ready for opening next week.

All of them and which ones? McDonald’s opened today and all other outlets early this week. Quite a change in mood from last week. Even quite rigid lockdown supporters are beginning to turn and ask questions

kenmc

NegativeCreep wrote: »

That’s be great. I desperately need a new pair of jeans!

In summer? Haven't worn anything other than shorts since mid march!

Those ridiculous ads on radio today "some of us haven't been out in a while" "some of us might even feel a bit wobbly" "keep your walk short" "we're all in this together"..............they're actually laughable at this stage, they are so far behind where most of the public have got at this stage. I just heard that ad on Newstalk at 4.30pm today! Just take them off air - HSE need to wake up stop kidding themselves that people are still complying - they're not.

Idbatterim

If I heard one company not cynically mention this bull**** virus on radio etc, I'd actually be impressed, pathetic. If this rate if regression continues, we will have people wearing nappies and being spoon fed Into o their fifties in 30-40 years time.

Its wrong to assume that everyone anti lockdown is just looking to skull a few pints, go gambling, head to a huge protest or music festival!

I'm mainly anti lockdown because I'm terrified of the damage this will do to the economy. Although our economy was strong and employment was high, lots of people never fully felt like we were in good times. Housing Crisis being the main culprit. Lack of supply vs huge demand = Huge rents and high house prices. That housing crisis is now going to be a whole lot worse. I doubt many houses have been built over the last few months. And we were already WAY behind.

I don't see rent dropping as there is still a lack of supply. So what happens if Tax increases and unemployment increases? Things could really turn nasty for people.

I'm actually a homeowner and myself and the wife are working full time in fairly safe industries. I just don't want others to suffer like we did for so many years.

We have a serious obsession in this world of ensuring we do everything we can to keep our future generations down.

Ginger n Lemon

Idbatterim wrote: »

If I heard one company not cynically mention this bull**** virus on radio etc, I'd actually be impressed, pathetic. If this rate if regression continues, we will have people wearing nappies and being spoon fed Into o their fifties in 30-40 years time.

The funniest post (and scariest at the same time because its true) I've read in this thread. :D:D

NegativeCreep

kenmc wrote: »

In summer? Haven't worn anything other than shorts since mid march!

I know but I can’t wear shorts to work

Arghus

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I am just surprised you think a concert hall with 13,000 capacity (200 + of which will be Jay Z backroom staff/stage performers) full, for 3 - 4 hours without people singing along/shouting, would not result in some people coughing or displaying some worrying symptoms afterwards the next morning, only for these to be tested in our 105,000 testing per week capacity we've been built up, with 1000 coming back as positive, a "not realistic" scenario.

That my friend is called a cluster. You mightve heard about such in meat plants.

I am surprised you think THAT is unrealistic, given that for the past 3 - 4 weeks you've preached nothing but "covid is a highly infectious disease"

PS that in bold you a re almost provoking me

I didn't say anything about any of those things.

What I said was you start the process of allowing public gatherings once you have eliminated community transmission.

You said you wanted realism and that you didn't mean that you were talking about opening football stadiums in terms of public gathering. You seemed to want to know what would be my opinion about where to start in terms of restarting public Gatherings.

I didn't understand that when you said you weren't talking about gatherings involving thousands of people, what you still meant, in fact, was hypothetical concerts involving thousands of people.

So I gave the most basic answer, because the issue is complicated and won't have a one size fits all approach - but you have to start somewhere. And that's where I would start.

I didn't say anything about your other hypothetical situations. You are putting words in my mouth.

You seem to have a consistent problem debating a person on what they actually do say - a lot of the substance in your responses go to whataboutery or further unjustified hypotheticals.

road_high

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Those ridiculous ads on radio today "some of us haven't been out in a while" "some of us might even feel a bit wobbly" "keep your walk short" "we're all in this together"..............they're actually laughable at this stage, they are so far behind where most of the public have got at this stage. I just heard that ad on Newstalk at 4.30pm today! Just take them off air - HSE need to wake up stop kidding themselves that people are still complying - they're not.

It’s virtue signalling ****e. Oh look at us we care so much about you. I despise all the Covid ads- get enough of it in the media without having to listen to businesses drone on about it too.

PTH2009

If you tolerate this then your children will be next

Ginger n Lemon

Arghus wrote: »

I didn't say anything about any of those things.

What I said was you start the process of allowing public gatherings once you have eliminated community transmission.

You said you wanted realism and that you didn't mean that you were talking about opening football stadiums in terms of public gathering. You seemed to want to know what would be my opinion about where to start in terms of restarting public Gatherings. I didn't understand that when you said you weren't talking about gatherings involving thousands of people, you still were talking about hypothetical concerts involving thousands of people.

So I gave the most basic answer, because the issue is complicated and won't have a one size fits all approach - but you have to start somewhere. And that's where I would start.

I didn't say anything about your other hypothetical situations. You are putting words in my mouth.

You seem to have a consistent problem debating a person on what they actually do say - a lot of the substance in your responses go to whataboutery or further unjustified hypotheticals.

As usual you provide "because the issue is complicated and won't have a one size fits all approach" lack of response and start rambling about me personally.

And this is hypothetical conversation, because reality is public gatherings have already started yesterday, with new cases being reported in high double digits (while you I believe wud've wanted low single digits of new cases for barbers to open in June lol let alone public gatherings).

So in a hypothetical conversion your response of "issue is complicated and wont have a one size fits all approach" is not very good, what do you think?

RobitTV

10 new cases today this is incredible!

End this lockdown now for god sake. This is no longer sustansible.