Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

deathbomber

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Rational people are smashing their heads against the walls listening to some of the hysterical tripe thats still being spouted.

We have learned so much since the images seen in Italy last March.

We know who is at risk and who isnt. If a nation has a lot of people in the vulnerable age group, like Italy had in Lombardy, they need to exercise extreme caution.

Those fit to work are not at risk as seen in the meat plants and retail outlets.
By not at risk I mean they won't end up on a ventilator or having a comment on the journal.ie in their memory (rip and god bless type tripe). They may contract Covid but it wont be any more dangerous to those healthy enough to be at work than any seasonal illness.

What do people want? Death eliminated from society at all costs?

The effects of Covid recently surpassed the death toll from the Haiti earthquake. Those lives didn't carry as much weight on social media though.

People have died at the same rate before Covid but because some folk have received the much of their educational and conversational skills from social media this fact passes over them.

Its selfish as well, people are fearful of their own health, the couldnt give a rats ass about others despite the "save lives" horsesh#t.

500k have died with/of Covid in a time when 4.5million starved to death.

you also must factor in that half the world has been in lockdown and thus prevented probably a few million deaths. The virus will come back, more so due to international travel, in fact, we are probably in a much more dangerous mindset now and in reality can't go into another full lockdown

stephenjmcd

Back a short while from Dunnes, queuing system gone, could walk in any entrance I wanted and walk around the shop wherever I wanted.

The chap sanitising the trolley bay said the queuing system was gone about 2 weeks.

Anyone seen similar in other shops or Dunnes stores ?

is_that_so

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Back a short while from Dunnes, queuing system gone, could walk in any entrance I wanted and walk around the shop wherever I wanted.

The chap sanitising the trolley bay said the queuing system was gone about 2 weeks.

Anyone seen similar in other shops or Dunnes stores ?

Been gone in local Lidl for about same length of time. Still see it for smaller Dunnes and Tesco and Penneys.

stargazer 68

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Back a short while from Dunnes, queuing system gone, could walk in any entrance I wanted and walk around the shop wherever I wanted.

The chap sanitising the trolley bay said the queuing system was gone about 2 weeks.

Anyone seen similar in other shops or Dunnes stores ?

Our local one still has it as does one I was in last night however Dunnes have increased the number of customers they are letting into their stores so the queues seem to have died down. Just walked in last night.

Ginger n Lemon

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Back a short while from Dunnes, queuing system gone, could walk in any entrance I wanted and walk around the shop wherever I wanted.

The chap sanitising the trolley bay said the queuing system was gone about 2 weeks.

Anyone seen similar in other shops or Dunnes stores ?

Been gone in my Aldi too.

None of the staff in Aldi wear masks or gloves either (I remember they did when govt announced approving masks etc. for about a week)

stephenjmcd

stargazer 68 wrote: »

Our local one still has it as does one I was in last night however Dunnes have increased the number of customers they are letting into their stores so the queues seem to have died down. Just walked in last night.

Yeah this one had barriers and a whole system out last time I was in it, 1 way in 1 way out. Now its just back to pre march normal and has been for the last 2 weeks apparently

Allinall

is_that_so wrote: »

Been gone in local Lidl for about same length of time. Still see it for smaller Dunnes and Tesco and Penneys.

More people back at work, so shopping is more spread out, meaning smaller numbers at any given time.

I would imagine most shops are monitoring numbers, and if there are too many, queueing will be brought in.

paw patrol

deathbomber wrote: »

you also must factor in that half the world has been in lockdown and thus prevented probably a few million deaths. The virus will come back, more so due to international travel, in fact, we are probably in a much more dangerous mindset now and in reality can't go into another full lockdown

this is the one argument i will accept - the international one


but with travel restricted , restricting our lives internally in ireland makes no sense

is_that_so

Allinall wrote: »

More people back at work, so shopping is more spread out, meaning smaller numbers at any given time.

I would imagine most shops are monitoring numbers, and if there are too many, queueing will be brought in.

As mentioned they seem to have upped the numbers in store so that may be the main reason. One real positive to come out of this is more open checkouts!

facehugger99

paw patrol wrote: »

its a weird situation , all these measures.
why? Somebody explain it to me?


Ireland has 306 active cases out of 5million people.
9 of which are serious.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries


where is the virus going to come from if there are f-all infected at the moment.


this is hysteria.

There's certainly an element of hysteria and the media will not willingly give up all those clicks that the fear-mogering is generating for them.

The bigger issue at this stage is the amount invested in the 'lockdown-narrative'. The cost is eye-wateringly high, tens of billions and rising.

The architects of these nonsense restrictions and their clappy-seals just can't admit what a gross over-reaction it was. They have too much invested in it and they've cost the rest of us too much money to back down.

So now we find ourselves in a country with a practically non-existent virus that is harmless to the vast majority and we still have viable business and people out of work.

It's actually laughable.

Dumb politicians supported by dumb people slowly and deliberately wrecking the place.

deathbomber

facehugger99 wrote: »

There's certainly an element of hysteria and the media will not willingly give up all those clicks that the fear-mogering is generating for them.

The bigger issue at this stage is the amount invested in the 'lockdown-narrative'. The cost is eye-wateringly high, tens of billions and rising.

The architects of these nonsense restrictions and their clappy-seals just can't admit what a gross over-reaction it was. They have too much invested in it and they've cost the rest of us too much money to back down.

So now we find ourselves in a country with a practically non-existent virus that is harmless to the vast majority and we still have viable business and people out of work.

It's actually laughable.

Dumb politicians supported by dumb people slowly and deliberately wrecking the place.

the virus is near non-existent because of the lockdown and arguably great team work from our great nation!
We should restrict international travel to essential only and with strict guidelines upon return. People who can't hack a year or 2 in Ireland are morons and to be honest quite selfish!

manniot2

deathbomber wrote: »

the virus is near non-existent because of the lockdown and arguably great team work from our great nation!
We should restrict international travel to essential only and with strict guidelines upon return. People who can't hack a year or 2 in Ireland are morons and to be honest quite selfish!

The rest of the EU is opening. Why would Ireland stay closed for 2 years, do we get a worse strain of the virus here?

And its not about people getting their week in Spain - tourism is huge here, and untold amounts of people will lose their livelihoods if we restrict international travel any longer.

Ginger n Lemon

manniot2 wrote: »

The rest of the EU is opening. Why would Ireland stay closed for 2 years, do we get a worse strain of the virus here?

And its not about people getting their week in Spain - tourism is huge here, and untold amounts of people will lose their livelihoods if we restrict international travel any longer.

150,000 to 250,000 work in Irish tourism.

This doesnt include other places of business that benefit from tourism (your average Butlers cafe selling coffee to tourists on Grafton St as example)

Sheepdish1

deathbomber wrote: »

you also must factor in that half the world has been in lockdown and thus prevented probably a few million deaths. The virus will come back, more so due to international travel, in fact, we are probably in a much more dangerous mindset now and in reality can't go into another full lockdown

I believe that if *needed* there will be another lockdown. People believed in March that they couldn’t lockdown and we are still living with lockdown restrictions until 20th July.

We had quite a high level of healthcare workers infected and our hospital capacity to deal with day to day running’s is limited previous to this without adding something contagious into the mix. A lot of these healthcare workers still haven’t recovered fully. I feel we’ll be able to manage it better but it didn’t take a huge amount of cases to end up in ICU restrictions will be imposed again. If our healthcare system can’t function it has huge implications on society. Hopefully it won’t come to that but I wouldn’t rule it out completely. I suspect if lockdown was to happen again it would be far more aggressive so it can be shorter eg. Everything close down for 5 weeks, schools, crèches, businesses, flights inwards. And then we could open up more quickly. It would be better to do it aggressively and open up more quickly.

growleaves

The problem with the 'aggressive but shorter' strategy is that unless it is time-limited from the outset then people will be reluctant to walk into a cage which may not be opened until God knows when.

end of the road

facehugger99 wrote: »

There's certainly an element of hysteria and the media will not willingly give up all those clicks that the fear-mogering is generating for them.

The bigger issue at this stage is the amount invested in the 'lockdown-narrative'. The cost is eye-wateringly high, tens of billions and rising.

The architects of these nonsense restrictions and their clappy-seals just can't admit what a gross over-reaction it was. They have too much invested in it and they've cost the rest of us too much money to back down.

So now we find ourselves in a country with a practically non-existent virus that is harmless to the vast majority and we still have viable business and people out of work.

It's actually laughable.

Dumb politicians supported by dumb people slowly and deliberately wrecking the place.

completely and demonstrably incorrect.
grown up politicians supported by grownups implemented necessary restrictions to protect the country, it's people, and keep the economy going on a very basic level so that the effects of covid 19 could be as minimal as possible.
there was no hysteria, no fear/scare mongering, or no over reaction by the media or government, just facts and information.
the restrictions over all worked and have allowed us to be where we are.
certainly there were areas where we could have done better, essential treatments should have continued and there were clear issues with nursing homes which should have been addressed.
the good news is that people like you were rightly ignored by all and anyone making the decisions and we can now emerge with a country and economy which can gain back the ground that was lost.

Eod100

Bit surprised by how high some of these figures are tbh. https://www.rte.ie/new...g-outdoor-event-cso/

Sheepdish1

growleaves wrote: »

The problem with the 'aggressive but shorter' strategy is that unless it is time-limited from the outset then people will be reluctant to walk into a cage which may not be opened until God knows when.

Yes agreed. It would need to be given in a time limit. E.g. 6 weeks of lockdown and then it’s back to normal. If there’s a national health emergency that means other parts of the healthcare system can’t function as a result I can’t see how it could be avoided. New Zealand and Cyprus did this and opened up very quickly. Our lockdown is being drawn out over a 5 months until 20th July.

fr336

I'm totally with people who think the country should be opened up, that's well past time, but those who say there should never have been a lockdown in the first place and in the next breath say there's barely any Covid in the country...well what can you say?

deathbomber

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I believe that if *needed* there will be another lockdown. People believed in March that they couldn’t lockdown and we are still living with lockdown restrictions until 20th July.

We had quite a high level of healthcare workers infected and our hospital capacity to deal with day to day running’s is limited previous to this without adding something contagious into the mix. A lot of these healthcare workers still haven’t recovered fully. I feel we’ll be able to manage it better but it didn’t take a huge amount of cases to end up in ICU restrictions will be imposed again. If our healthcare system can’t function it has huge implications on society. Hopefully it won’t come to that but I wouldn’t rule it out completely. I suspect if lockdown was to happen again it would be far more aggressive so it can be shorter eg. Everything close down for 5 weeks, schools, crèches, businesses, flights inwards. And then we could open up more quickly. It would be better to do it aggressively and open up more quickly.

Another lockdown would need to be longer as it would be proved that the first lockdown was too short (came out too fast) and indeed mistakes made. We simply cannot afford it, from a monetary perspective, we would go broke. I got the virus and my partner too(healthcare worker), it ainst nice and quite sinister, healthy people will and have be casualties too in the next wave. As for other countries coming out of it, so be it, but they do not know, they are taking a risk, that part they are aware of, but the extent is not apparent.Already worrying signs are appearing with outbreaks. If we restricted travel other than essential travel and goods from our Island, we could probably open everything (excluding travel) fully up within 4 - 5 weeks and it would be a far better outcome. We would need the north on board too.

hmmm

Eod100 wrote: »

Bit surprised by how high some of these figures are tbh. https://www.rte.ie/new...g-outdoor-event-cso/

Doesn't surprise me all that much because it replicates what we've seen in terms of footfall in the parts of the Europe which have re-opened. If we can't assure people of their safety, they are not going to return. 1 metre versus 2 metre tables means double the number of empty tables in a restaurant or pub where people do not feel the establishment is taking the virus seriously. This is one time where increasing friction for the customer ("you have to wear a mask") may actually lead to more customers.

deathbomber

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

Yes agreed. It would need to be given in a time limit. E.g. 6 weeks of lockdown and then it’s back to normal. If there’s a national health emergency that means other parts of the healthcare system can’t function as a result I can’t see how it could be avoided. New Zealand and Cyprus did this and opened up very quickly. Our lockdown is being drawn out over a 5 months until 20th July.

Get people wearing masks and restrict International travel. In my opinion, these are key to riding this out with little casualties.

Sheepdish1

deathbomber wrote: »

Another lockdown would need to be longer as it would be proved that the first lockdown was too short (came out too fast) and indeed mistakes made. We simply cannot afford it, from a monetary perspective, we would go broke. I got the virus and my partner too(healthcare worker), it ainst nice and quite sinister, healthy people will and have be casualties too in the next wave. As for other countries coming out of it, so be it, but they do not know, they are taking a risk, that part they are aware of, but the extent is not apparent.Already worrying signs are appearing with outbreaks. If we restricted travel other than essential travel and goods from our Island, we could probably open everything (excluding travel) fully up within 4 - 5 weeks and it would be a far better outcome. We would need the north on board too.

Yes that’s what I mean, couldn’t afford a 5 month lockdown, it’s too long. I agree that borders would need to be closed unless quarantined. It would need to be quite aggressive but would mean the virus could be reduced to a manageable level after 5 weeks for us to open up again. Did you find the virus challenging when you had it and are you fully recovered? Even if deaths are avoided it still has quite an affect on the workforce if people have it. I know the death rate is relatively low but it’s the extra strain and pressure on limited resources that causes issues. Some people seem to think that as long as elderly or vulnerable are protected we can just get on as normal but I feel that it’s far more complex than that.

fr336

deathbomber wrote: »

Get people wearing masks and restrict International travel. In my opinion, these are key to riding this out with little casualties.

Absolutely. I still say if face coverings had been made compulsory and restrictions put on travel into the country lockdown could have been over in April...hell lockdown may not have been needed at all. All those billions lost and businesses about to fold...for what? People too precious to wear a face covering in a pandemic? Really annoys me, and inevitably the biggest anti lockdowners are typically anti maskers too.

Tenzor07

deathbomber wrote: »

We should restrict international travel to essential only and with strict guidelines upon return. People who can't hack a year or 2 in Ireland are morons and to be honest quite selfish!

Nah, sorry dude, we're a small Island nation dependent on tourism and trade, those "morons" who come and go from here also pay taxes, bring trade/create jobs and ultimately keep the state solvent...no free money tree out their to pay the health and security services etc..

deathbomber

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

Yes that’s what I mean, couldn’t afford a 5 month lockdown, it’s too long. I agree that borders would need to be closed unless quarantined. It would need to be quite aggressive but would mean the virus could be reduced to a manageable level after 5 weeks for us to open up again. Did you find the virus challenging when you had it and are you fully recovered? Even if deaths are avoided it still has quite an affect on the workforce if people have it. I know the death rate is relatively low but it’s the extra strain and pressure on limited resources that causes issues. Some people seem to think that as long as elderly or vulnerable are protected we can just get on as normal but I feel that it’s far more complex than that.

Thankfully fine, i was tracking the Virus since early January as part of a project so we were aware, started dosing up on various vitamins. We (nation) are well on top of the virus but the easing of restrictions is high risk. I am saying it now, within 5 weeks, everybody could be back in work, obviously certain industries would be hit, such as airlines etc and shortage of tourist footfall, however if people holiday at home, theen it may not be too bad (apart from airlines), not too great wither but it is the best option in a highly complex scenario

iamwhoiam

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Back a short while from Dunnes, queuing system gone, could walk in any entrance I wanted and walk around the shop wherever I wanted.

The chap sanitising the trolley bay said the queuing system was gone about 2 weeks.

Anyone seen similar in other shops or Dunnes stores ?

No . I stood in an orderly queue today in Dunnes . One for elderly and vulnerable and one for everyone else . We were let in a few at a time , grand inside and orderly queue for checkouts . It was fine

deathbomber

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Nah, sorry dude, we're a small Island nation dependent on tourism and trade, those "morons" who come and go from here also pay taxes, bring trade/create jobs and ultimately keep the state solvent...no free money tree out their to pay the health and security services etc..

tourism - obviously hit but people holidaying at home in Ireland will help a lot. Trade doesn't stop for the most part, i mentioned goods!

skelly22

fr336 wrote: »

Absolutely. I still say if face coverings had been made compulsory and restrictions put on travel into the country lockdown could have been over in April...hell lockdown may not have been needed at all. All those billions lost and businesses about to fold...for what? People too precious to wear a face covering in a pandemic? Really annoys me, and inevitably the biggest anti lockdowners are typically anti maskers too.

And vice versa.....logical really. Annoying too.

Tenzor07

deathbomber wrote: »

tourism - obviously hit but people holidaying at home in Ireland will help a lot. Trade doesn't stop for the most part, i mentioned goods!

We barely have 5 million people here, and last year almost 12 million tourists came here, there's not enough internal tourists to support the sector here, so thousands will lose their jobs..

Less business happening in Ireland, less products bought and sold = less trade
so closing borders has a massive effect no matter how you say it...