Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

Unless my maths are completely off for the first 21 days of May there were 3,779 new cases and 341 deaths. That is a daily average of 180 new cases and 16 deaths.
If you believe those figures were good enough to ease restriction in May then that is your opinion. As far as I`m concerned to do that could have easily and quickly left us back where we were mid April.

That’s not what I said. What I said if numbers dropped 80% over the course of 3 weeks r0 was not any close to 1. About 0.6 I’d say. I think we were a bit slow in opening, but are I round about the right place now, or will be Monday next

DebDynamite

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Yes, I made that point a couple of times before. The other side of it though is how many will die in the years to come due to later diagnosis and treatment of all the other diseases and illnesses, both physical and mental, which have been allowed to fester for months? We had long waiting lists already, God knows what they are like now. The lockdown saved lifes, up to a point, but the prolonged lockdown is likely to cost lives.

Yes indeed. Would be great if we could find out at the end of all of this the true numbers of people who 1. Died of Covid, 2. Died with Covid, and 3. Died because of Covid (i.e. cancer screenings, etc being suspended, mental health, etc.)

I would suspect the latter would have the highest number

Eod100

Looks like they will be making face coverings mandatory on public transport and reducing the 2m rule to increase capacity to 50%.

Not sure what happens if someone doesn't. Could may be police on entry on Dublin Bus but not Luas or Dart.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/government-to-make-wearing-of-masks-compulsory-on-public-transport-1.4287678

vid36

Eod100 wrote: »

Looks like they will be making face coverings mandatory on public transport and reducing the 2m rule to increase capacity to 50%.

Not sure what happens if someone doesn't. Could may be police on entry on Dublin Bus but not Luas or Dart.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/government-to-make-wearing-of-masks-compulsory-on-public-transport-1.4287678

Like the Luas ticket inspections, on the spot fine if no mask.

stephenjmcd

vid36 wrote: »

Like the Luas ticket inspections, on the spot fine if no mask.

Good luck with that, its not going well in the UK even with a transport police.

You'll have everyone saying they've asthma or something and nobody can challenge it. Then you'll have people who can't wear them for whatever reason.

Tenzor07

Eod100 wrote: »

Looks like they will be making face coverings mandatory on public transport and reducing the 2m rule to increase capacity to 50%.
Not sure what happens if someone doesn't. Could may be police on entry on Dublin Bus but not Luas or Dart.

If there's no Transport Gardai to enforce this rule then it's almost pointless! You can't expect Bus drivers, Ticket inspectors and private Luas security to enforce it, I mean I've seen open drug taking/dealing, fights/assaults, fare evasion, smoking all on public transport in Dublin regularly enough that went without any Gards showing up!

Eod100

Tenzor07 wrote: »

If there's no Transport Gardai to enforce this rule then it's almost pointless! You can't expect Bus drivers, Ticket inspectors and private Luas security to enforce it, I mean I've seen open drug taking/dealing, fights/assaults, fare evasion, smoking all on public transport in Dublin regularly enough that went without any Gards showing up!

Sure the CEO of NTA the other day was saying customers could remind others about social distancing if other people weren't following it. Saw on twitter someone did and got their teeth punched in as a result..!

is_that_so

Eod100 wrote: »

Sure the CEO of NTA the other day was saying customers could remind others about social distancing if other people weren't following it. Saw on twitter someone did and got their teeth punched in as a result..!

It's a dumb thing to say. Sounds like someone who moves in "civilised" circles and imagines that's how the world works.

MickeyLeari

Eod100 wrote: »

Sure the CEO of NTA the other day was saying customers could remind others about social distancing if other people weren't following it. Saw on twitter someone did and got their teeth punched in as a result..!

Jesus wept. Clearly someone who have probably only been on one of the posh routes and never the nite link.

NTA should be working with the Guards on this. I have seen on the Red LUAS where the store street guards come on at Busarus to sort out issues:

is_that_so

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Good luck with that, its not going well in the UK even with a transport police.

You'll have everyone saying they've asthma or something and nobody can challenge it. Then you'll have people who can't wear them for whatever reason.

At best it's an attempt to get an advisory we've largely ignored, up to a respectable level. There will unquestionably be issues with a range of people.

stephenjmcd

is_that_so wrote: »

At best it's an attempt to get an advisory we've largely ignored, up to a respectable level. There will unquestionably be issues with a range of people.

Yup agree with that.

GocRh

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Good luck with that, its not going well in the UK even with a transport police.

You'll have everyone saying they've asthma or something and nobody can challenge it. Then you'll have people who can't wear them for whatever reason.

Compliance is very high in Portugal (I happened to be there during lockdown), and from what I've heard from family in Germany everyone seems to be following the rules there as well. We need to stop looking only at the UK, they're no example...

Masks should have been made mandatory much sooner, when general compliance with covid restrictions was high, so the public would get used to wearing masks. Making it mandatory when the country is almost fully open will be a challenge - many people think covid is gone and no longer relevant.

uli84

is_that_so wrote: »

Some good news on cervical screening, back next month from Monday 6th.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0624/1149381-coronavirus-covid19-ireland/

At last, They really took their time on this one...

is_that_so

uli84 wrote: »

At last, They really took their time on this one...

Patience is something you could do some more work on!

MickeyLeari

Is the virus getting worse in Europe or is the mad situation in South America and parts of the US now driving the narrative. The fear factor is back I think.

I am fully ok with masks on public transport and crowded indoor locations, I am fully ok that business open with reasonable social distancing, and I would even be supportive of reduced hours in pubs etc for the initial reopening stage.

The policy is now about living with the virus and minimising risk, but the messaging from many quarters is still one of fear. Probably not helped by polar opposite positions dominating the airwaves rather than a more sensible middle.

We have made a mess of the messaging on masks so far and have made a mess of the travel situation. The traffic light system should have been in place weeks ago.

is_that_so

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Is the virus getting worse in Europe or is the mad situation in South America and parts of the US now driving the narrative. The fear factor is back I think.

I am fully ok with masks on public transport and crowded indoor locations, I am fully ok that business open with reasonable social distancing, and I would even be supportive of reduced hours in pubs etc for the initial reopening stage.

The policy is now about living with the virus and minimising risk, but the messaging from many quarters is still one of fear. Probably not helped by polar opposite positions dominating the airwaves rather than a more sensible middle.

We have made a mess of the messaging on masks so far and have made a mess of the travel situation. The traffic light system should have been in place weeks ago.

Traffic light system?

MickeyLeari

is_that_so wrote: »

Traffic light system?

Yes. Depends on origin based on current Covid status.

Red - No
Orange - quarantine and/or testing required on entry
Green - Yes but temperature sensors and random testing

deathbomber

The best option is really to mask up everywhere (indoors) and groups outdoors but home. The virus will spread again, particularly when International travel resumes on a large scale (which it shouldn't) fortunately we gain knowledge every day and indeed have promising treatments. However there are various morons around who put others at potential risk, such as those who have travelled and avoiding due process and 2 week quarantines etc. Don't travel if you don't want to follow the rules! People appear to think the virus will go on holiday and return in October, again nothing short of a moronic view, it is not seasonal

is_that_so

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Yes. Depends on origin based on current Covid status.

Red - No
Orange - quarantine and/or testing required on entry
Green - Yes but temperature sensors and random testing

So at ports of entry?

hmmm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

If there's no Transport Gardai to enforce this rule then it's almost pointless!

We don't need or expect 100% compliance. There are always a few people who think they are special and for whatever reason they won't do something, but we just need the majority of people to help reduce risk.

MickeyLeari

is_that_so wrote: »

So at ports of entry?

I think it is a mixture of not allowing flights from some jurisdictions (red) and at ports of entry (green and orange). There is now also pre-screening and declarations.

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

That’s not what I said. What I said if numbers dropped 80% over the course of 3 weeks r0 was not any close to 1. About 0.6 I’d say. I think we were a bit slow in opening, but are I round about the right place now, or will be Monday next

Well for me at least it made more sense to wait a few weeks and as the saying goes, hold what we had, rather than having relaxed restrictions and having to do a quick step back.
The other advantage was that it showed a continuous steady decline in numbers which resulted in the speeding up of the lifting of restrictions.
To each their own view, but for me to jump too where we will be on Monday in May would have been a risk that could easily of backfired.

paw patrol

its a weird situation , all these measures.
why? Somebody explain it to me?


Ireland has 306 active cases out of 5million people.
9 of which are serious.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries


where is the virus going to come from if there are f-all infected at the moment.


this is hysteria.

20silkcut

paw patrol wrote: »

its a weird situation , all these measures.
why? Somebody explain it to me?


Ireland has 306 active cases out of 5million people.
9 of which are serious.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries


where is the virus going to come from if there are f-all infected at the moment.


this is hysteria.

It only takes a handful of cases plus no restrictions to spread the virus.
If you have a handful of cases and restrictions in place the virus doesn’t spread.
The restrictions are stopping the spread.

paw patrol

20silkcut wrote: »

It only takes a handful of cases plus no restrictions to spread the virus.
If you have a handful of cases and restrictions in place the virus doesn’t spread.
The restrictions are stopping the spread.

All for a handful of cases? that is not a rational assumption.
on that basis we will never be free of restrictions esp when the next virus kicks. that actually insane


It's clear this virus isn't even as deadly as made out initially but that fear has never abated

FintanMcluskey

paw patrol wrote: »

It's clear this virus isn't even as deadly as made out initially but that fear has never abated

Rational people are smashing their heads against the walls listening to some of the hysterical tripe thats still being spouted.

We have learned so much since the images seen in Italy last March.

We know who is at risk and who isnt. If a nation has a lot of people in the vulnerable age group, like Italy had in Lombardy, they need to exercise extreme caution.

Those fit to work are not at risk as seen in the meat plants and retail outlets.
By not at risk I mean they won't end up on a ventilator or having a comment on the journal.ie in their memory (rip and god bless type tripe). They may contract Covid but it wont be any more dangerous to those healthy enough to be at work than any seasonal illness.

What do people want? Death eliminated from society at all costs?

The effects of Covid recently surpassed the death toll from the Haiti earthquake. Those lives didn't carry as much weight on social media though.

People have died at the same rate before Covid but because some folk have received the much of their educational and conversational skills from social media this fact passes over them.

Its selfish as well, people are fearful of their own health, the couldnt give a rats ass about others despite the "save lives" horsesh#t.

500k have died with/of Covid in a time when 4.5million starved to death.

yosemitesam1

20silkcut wrote: »

It only takes a handful of cases plus no restrictions to spread the virus.
If you have a handful of cases and restrictions in place the virus doesn’t spread.
The restrictions are stopping the spread.

Italy had to have had a minimum of a couple of hundred cases at the start of December or else there would have been no way it would have been detected in wastewater.

Either covid has a much slower doubling time outside of main coronavirus season (late winter/early spring) or else it always spreads slowly year round.
The r0 has to be much lower than 3 and the doubling time much longer than originally thought or else Italy would have had close enough to it's entire population infected before restrictions were introduced there

Either way we should be cutting restrictions entirely now, they don't give value for money over what could be gained diverting that same money elsewhere

Tenzor07

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What do people want? Death eliminated from society at all costs?
The effects of Covid recently surpassed the death toll from the Haiti earthquake. Those lives didn't carry as much weight on social media though.
.

What amazed me about all these restrictions brought in during late March was that you were told to stay at home, don't go more than 2k from your place of residence, yet there was nothing to stop you going to the shops and buying 100 cigarettes a bottle of Vodka and a tray of cans and going home to consume them all at the weekend!
Surely if we want to eliminate deaths to almost Zero then we should cut everything such as Cigarettes which can contribute to giving you cancer?

We walked around without masks in March and visited nursing homes without restriction, we let people from regions highly affected from Covid into the country and people to travel to a mass gathering of 250,000 and come back without quarantine.

Now we're being told mask wearing is compulsory, you can't travel outside the region or abroad...

Are we going backwards or what?

Ginger n Lemon

paw patrol wrote: »

its a weird situation , all these measures.
why? Somebody explain it to me?


Ireland has 306 active cases out of 5million people.
9 of which are serious.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries


where is the virus going to come from if there are f-all infected at the moment.


this is hysteria.

Thats 1 person out of every 16,013 people as a live case in Ireland.

Idk about lotto winning odds, but this is very slim.

If you fill the bus up for 70 people, it would take you 229 rides approximately to catch covid off a live case. but then if you consider that large chunk of 306 is self isolating (one would hope) you are looking at a hell of a lot more bus rides needed, statistically speaking.

PS Wait a second - this isnt realistic. You'd need to spend 15 mins within 2 metres of each of 70 passengers, that will take 18 hours.

You can quickly see why odds given of 1 in a million or thereabouts ....

Ginger n Lemon

Irish Times trying very hard to scare monger

https://www.irishtimes.com/

Article 1 - 2nd wave is inevitable

Article 2 - re opening Texas backfired as cases surge

Article 3 - Ireland needs to rapidly upscale before 2nd wave (this is odd, we can do 100k tests per week and currently only do 18k, what further up scale needed?)

Article 4 - Covid clusters in Irish houses surged to 500 last week (what is this I dont even know)

Article 5 - No chance of foreign travel restrictions lifted before mid July

Article 6 & 7 - Mandatory face masks on public transport Q& A and "Face masks should be mandatory in Irish shops, says immunologist"


7 top headlines and articles visible on main page about covid. 0 anything else related. And we wonder why are people so terrified?

Not a single article about other EU countries, or other EU countries promoting their individual tourism sectors... something is seriously wrong here. How can Spanish holidays be in full force and one of our main newspapers is publishing apocalyptic articles... Texas cases? really? I thought death penalty is still legal there? welcome to bloody Texas like