Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

:rolleyes: No hope.

No answer or alternative facts?

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ive asked you a direct question - do you know the sample size used in that 6% antibodies test?

And all you keeping coming back with are questions of whether I know how sampling works. Do you not see a flaw here? You cant answer a simple question.

I will ask for the 3rd time, do you know the sample size in that 6% antibodies test? Any further deflection will really lead me to believe that sample size used was 5-10k people, and make your whole story of 6% antibodies seem quite insignificant.

Hence - moving on if you cant provide sample size.

On not answering questions.

Was it you on another thread that said you were going to holiday in Sweden this year.?

I asked earlier but you seem to have missed it.


I do know the sample size but I do not feel I was put on this earth to do your bidding in an effort to distract from your embarrassment as a cheerleader of Sweden`s antibody modelling figures you were such a supporter of.
Especially with them being based on a strategy of no lockdown being even further off than the Imperial College modelling figures on lockdown you keep on about.
If you now wish to bury your head in the sand on the antibody national test results of 6.1% from the Public Health Agency of Sweden you were such a supporter of before the ass fell out of their herd immunity modelling figures it does not say much for your credibility I`m afraid.


Seeing as you have now jumped ship on your former total belief in the Swedish authorities, how about test results from private health care provider Werlabs.
50,000 tests May to mid July for Stockholm only showed just 14% with antibodies.
Now with Stockholm being the epicenter of Sweden`s infection what do you believe the national figure is.
a) Above 14%
b) Below 14%
c) 6.1% as your former heroes say
d) Irrelevant as the Sweden`s modelling was so far out.

Ginger n Lemon

charlie14 wrote: »

On not answering questions.

Was it you on another thread that said you were going to holiday in Sweden this year.?

I asked earlier but you seem to have missed it.


I do know the sample size but I do not feel I was put on this earth to do your bidding in an effort to distract from your embarrassment as a cheerleader of Sweden`s antibody modelling figures you were such a supporter of.
Especially with them being based on a strategy of no lockdown being even further off than the Imperial College modelling figures on lockdown you keep on about.
If you now wish to bury your head in the sand on the antibody national test results of 6.1% from the Public Health Agency of Sweden you were such a supporter of before the ass fell out of their herd immunity modelling figures it does not say much for your credibility I`m afraid.


Seeing as you have now jumped ship on your former total belief in the Swedish authorities, how about test results from private health care provider Werlabs.
50,000 tests May to mid July for Stockholm only showed just 14% with antibodies.
Now with Stockholm being the epicenter of Sweden`s infection what do you believe the national figure is.
a) Above 14%
b) Below 14%
c) 6.1% as your former heroes say
d) Irrelevant as the Sweden`s modelling was so far out.

Charles you are in the wrong thread. You arent answering my question either.

And no i am not going to Sweden. :rolleyes:

PS this isnt who wants to be a millionaire :pac: :cool:

Ginger n Lemon

This controversial gentleman

Boris Johnson opens pubs in England as corona infections fall
‘Today we can say that our long national hibernation is beginning to come to an end.’

LONDON — Boris Johnson announced that pubs and restaurants will reopen in England from July 4, saying the U.K. has so far been shielded from a second wave of coronavirus cases.

From July 4, the controversial 2-meter rule on social distancing will be relaxed to “1-meter plus” when leaving 2 meters is impossible. The public should nonetheless take other precautions such as wearing face coverings, Johnson said.

https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-opens-the-pubs-in-england-as-corona-infections-fall/

4th July, what a day to chose

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Charles you are in the wrong thread. You arent answering my question either.

And no i am not going to Sweden. :rolleyes:

PS this isnt who wants to be a millionaire :pac: :cool:

Sweden's tracking antibody studies take 1200 samples each week.

http://outbreaknewstoday.com/covid-19-antibody-study-in-sweden-75413/

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Charles you are in the wrong thread. You arent answering my question either.

And no i am not going to Sweden. :rolleyes:

PS this isnt who wants to be a millionaire :pac: :cool:

Again, why is it the wrong thread ?
Because it shows the hypocrisy of ranting about modelling figures from one source when modelling figures you were such a cheerleader for were even further off the mark

I did answer your question. You`re just in denial as it doesn`t suit your agenda.

I didn`t ask were you NOW going to Sweden.
I asked were you the poster who said on another thread you were going there on holiday`s THIS YEAR because they would have sorted their Covid-19 situation long before anywhere else.

bettyoleary

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This controversial gentleman

Boris Johnson opens pubs in England as corona infections fall
‘Today we can say that our long national hibernation is beginning to come to an end.’

LONDON — Boris Johnson announced that pubs and restaurants will reopen in England from July 4, saying the U.K. has so far been shielded from a second wave of coronavirus cases.

From July 4, the controversial 2-meter rule on social distancing will be relaxed to “1-meter plus” when leaving 2 meters is impossible. The public should nonetheless take other precautions such as wearing face coverings, Johnson said.

https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-opens-the-pubs-in-england-as-corona-infections-fall/

4th July, what a day to chose

Id say your aspiration is to be a TD. But you get every single thing wrong so I would never vote for you. The virus hasnt gone.When we open up international travel it will return quickly. We dont have the health service to deal with it. We tried to use nurses and DRs to come back from abroad to help deal with it. They wernt needed so we abused them. The biggest issue is we dont have the health service to deal with second wave. What are your ideas on this???? Bcos its coming. Its in Germany, Portugal Soon Spain and Italy. Or have you got your Pennys shorts on having a pint with a red face. Id say you have. But, dont expect nurses to help again. They arnt doing it.

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweden's tracking antibody studies take 1200 samples each week.

http://outbreaknewstoday.com/covid-19-antibody-study-in-sweden-75413/

Wasting your time.
A cheerleader for Sweden`s modelling figures on herd immunity that now will not accept actual figures from the same source unless every man woman and child is tested says all that needs to be said for this poster where something doesn`t suit their agenda imo.

setanta1984

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's funny, I thought Ireland were opening slower than everywhere else.

Unless my calculations are wrong, July 4th comes after June 29th.

Everywhere else in the EU. https://reopen.europa.eu/en/map/IRL

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

Wasting your time.
A cheerleader for Sweden`s modelling figures on herd immunity that now will not accept actual figures from the same source unless every man woman and child is tested says all that needs to be said for this poster where something doesn`t suit their agenda imo.

Needs to be challenged though lest reasonable people be left with the impression he knows what he is talking about.

bettyoleary

Deleted User wrote: »

Needs to be challenged though lest reasonable people be left with the impression he knows what he is talking about.

Anyone with the smallest amount of sense will realize the reason we are in the place we are is because the health service cant deal with it. So unless you let millions die as in Brazil, you deal with it. The reason we cant is because our health service is crap. The reason it is is because we educate nurses to degree level and then expect them to work for basic wage. Obviously they wont and they go abroad to Saudi, Australia etc. Pretty simple really. And for the few that came back to Ireland to help, they were treated terribly.

The health service has dictated how effective we deal with this this pandemic and ours is rubbish. Its coming again soon and all we care about is allowing Ryan air to fly again and other greedy businesses. Bring it back again and expect nurses to put their lives at risk so Michael Oleary for example is rich for example. Anyone who wants to argue this point work away

bettyoleary

bettyoleary wrote: »

Anyone with the smallest amount of sense will realize the reason we are in the place we are is because the health service cant deal with it. So unless you let millions die as in Brazil, you deal with it. The reason we cant is because our health service is crap. The reason it is is because we educate nurses to degree level and then expect them to work for basic wage. Obviously they wont and they go abroad to Saudi, Australia etc. Pretty simple really. And for the few that came back to Ireland to help, they were treated terribly.

The health service has dictated how effective we deal with this this pandemic and ours is rubbish. Its coming again soon and all we care about is allowing Ryan air to fly again and other greedy businesses. Bring it back again and expect nurses to put their lives at risk so Michael Oleary for example is rich for example. Anyone who wants to argue this point work away

Death rate in ICU in Ireland is lower than most similar countries. But never let facts get in the way of a good rant

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Lets face it - not possibly but definitely over counting. This will be very clear at December 2020 when amount of deaths will be the same as 2018 and 2019. And people will say "yeah well we had restrictions so thats why deaths have remained the same" - except for, if 1700 truly died directly because of covid, you'd expect a 5% increase on 2019 death toll.

But people are in denial, and will keep posting rubbish that "oh we need to wait 6 months until June 2021 to find out real number of deaths for 2020 because people have up to 6 months to submit death certificates" etc. :rolleyes:

Maybe I can help you out on this one.
That is if you are prepared to take a few facts into account for a change.

You really do not have to wait on death certificates to get an idea on excess deaths.
A study by University of Limerick and Maynooth University based on the RIP.ie website for the month of April 2020 found that for three of the worst affected area for Covid-19 deaths, Dublin, Cavan and Monaghan had over double the average deaths of previous years for that month.
Dublin. April 2020 1,200. April average 690.
Monaghan April 2020 80. April average 31.
Cavan April 2020 125. April average 54.


To simplify April 2020. Death notices in those three counties 1,405.
Average April death in total for those three counties prior to Coronavirus 715.
Sheer coincidence :rolleyes:

Doctor Jimbob

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Why the desire to compare to the EU and not out nearest neighbour which we share a land border with?

They're still faster than us.
Pubs etc open. pubs here will be closed unless 20th July unless they operate like a restaurant.
I believe they will have 1M as well while we'll still have 2M.

We'll have had the longest lockdown / restrictions in the world.
As well as kids out of school the longest.
As well as the highest percentage of medical staff effected.

3 records I'd rather not have. Granted we are in a decent position now.

Goldengirl

Assetbacked wrote: »

It's very likely that he is loving the attention and therefore can no longer see the wood from the trees. Crush the curve approach means he should be silenced at this point, how do people take that view seriously? Well, I already know the answer to that.

That is very black and white . Did you even listen to the podcast?
You know, as on this thread there are a spectrum of opinions among scientists.
He is neither as conservative as Gerry Killeen or as free as Carl Heneghan, but is a very well respected scientist and is speaking a lot of good informative sense on that podcast .

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

They're still faster than us.
Pubs etc open. pubs here will be closed unless 20th July unless they operate like a restaurant.
I believe they will have 1M as well while we'll still have 2M.

We'll have had the longest lockdown / restrictions in the world.
As well as kids out of school the longest.
As well as the highest percentage of medical staff effected.

3 records I'd rather not have. Granted we are in a decent position now.

Have you read our guidelines on social distancing in the hospitality industry - where possible is used a lot, must not so much

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

Maybe I can help you out on this one.
That is if you are prepared to take a few facts into account for a change.

You really do not have to wait on death certificates to get an idea on excess deaths.
A study by University of Limerick and Maynooth University based on the RIP.ie website for the month of April 2020 found that for three of the worst affected area for Covid-19 deaths, Dublin, Cavan and Monaghan had over double the average deaths of previous years for that month.
Dublin. April 2020 1,200. April average 690.
Monaghan April 2020 80. April average 31.
Cavan April 2020 125. April average 54.


To simplify April 2020. Death notices in those three counties 1,405.
Average April death in total for those three counties prior to Coronavirus 715.
Sheer coincidence :rolleyes:

Tony Holohan was saying that he doesn't really think there will be much / any excess mortality.

Were are you getting the figures from? I'd actually be interested to see this for March, April and May.

AUDI20

Deleted User wrote: »

Stolen from the main thread. WW article: Local man disappointed by the drop in cases lol

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2020/06/23/local-man-a-bit-disappointed-by-the-drop-in-cases-if-hes-being-honest/

Thats only a rag of website, can't believe a word thats posted in it. they have had some really stupid stuff posted

hmmm

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

4th July, what a day to chose

https://twitter.com/derekjames150/status/1275693003055783938

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Tony Holohan was saying that he doesn't really think there will be much / any excess mortality.

Were are you getting the figures from? I'd actually be interested to see this for March, April and May.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

UK excess deaths are stark

Goldengirl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think a lot of people just need to get a little bit of perspective in relation to Covid 19.

In just the last 24 hours, I've heard people saying Covid can cause brain damage, loss of limbs, long term lung issues, Coma, Strokes, major organ failure. Perhaps there are a tiny few cases like this that likely also includes other underlying conditions.

Its important to remember how rare these things occur though. There are over 9M cases worldwide. If even 9 people lost a limb thats still a 1 in million chance of it happening to a person with covid.

If you read all the potential side effects on some medications, you'd probably never touch them at all.

It might not sell newspapers or generate clicks, but the fact remains that most people that get Covid will only experience very mild symptoms and make a full speedy recovery.

Yes you keep saying this and it is true.
Except not all make a full recovery as far as we can say at present .
However 1 in 5 cases end up ill enough to be hospitalised , with 5% of total cases being critically ill, not to mention all the deaths
This is far more than any other infectious disease we have experienced , and far far more than any side effect of any drug .
I don't disagree with everything you and some of the anti restrictions posters say , but the constant minimising of this disease is tiresome , at this stage , despite discussion and evidence to the contrary being provided by numerous posters , all of which is promptly ignored by some here .

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

Tony Holohan was saying that he doesn't really think there will be much / any excess mortality.

Were are you getting the figures from? I'd actually be interested to see this for March, April and May.

Seeing as with lockdown we have kept the deaths low and keep them that way, it may no register as too much of a rise over the year.
According to the study I mentioned though, for April when at its height, is a different matter.





Just google Maynooth University excess deaths April 2020

Doctor Jimbob

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

We'll be down to 1m as well by the 20th if not beforehand. Too much pressure to do so and cases are staying low. I could be wrong but I'd be amazed if that's not the case.

There just seems to be a constant desire on here to compare us to whichever countries make us look the worst. Yes we had the longest restrictions but our restrictions were also less severe than some countries. There are positives about how we've handled this.

I think we'll reduce to 1M as well. 2M is just not workable.

I do understand your frustration as well. Both sides of the argument have extreme's when in reality there is a lot of middle-ground.

Overall I think we have done a decent job, just painfully slow. But i guess that will quickly become a distant memory once its done.

Goldengirl

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's funny, I thought Ireland were opening slower than everywhere else.

Unless my calculations are wrong, July 4th comes after June 29th.

And Nicola Sturgeon announced today that barbers and hairdressers in Scotland would reopen there on 15 th July ...
Ours are open since this week !

bettyoleary

Deleted User wrote: »

Death rate in ICU in Ireland is lower than most similar countries. But never let facts get in the way of a good rant

What do you actually mean by that??? Why do you expect nurses to deal with this again when business men have made a few more million and escape to a covid free place. Outrageous. NURSES LIVES MATTER

Penfailed

AUDI20 wrote: »

Thats only a rag of website, can't believe a word thats posted in it. they have had some really stupid stuff posted

You do know that Waterford Whispers is a satirical website...yeah?

Goldengirl

AUDI20 wrote: »

Thats only a rag of website, can't believe a word thats posted in it. they have had some really stupid stuff posted

It's a joke

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

You do know that Waterford Whispers is a satirical website...yeah?

I honestly couldn't tell if Audi picked up on that or was genuinely serious

ixoy

Goldengirl wrote: »

However 1 in 5 cases end up ill enough to be hospitalised , with 5% of total cases being critically ill, not to mention all the deaths

Depends on the age group though - younger people are less likely to be hospitalised. It's not a blanket 20%.
I think in Ireland we had a 13% hospitalisation rate overall for confirmed cases.

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

You do know that Waterford Whispers is a satirical website...yeah?

Is it not the Irish Reuters?