Relaxation of restrictions Part II

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

There are many ways. I've already explained that Italy had stricter policies. Banning exercise would be one way. You know all these things already. You are being obtuse.

...and no, I wouldn't be happy then. I'm not currently happy now. I accept the reasoning though.

Such as?

Take a look at the list below and tell us what further restrictions could be placed on Joe Public.


The only reasons you can leave your home

Stay at home in all circumstances, except in the following situations:
to travel to and from work where the work is considered an essential service. The full list of essential services is available here
working in an essential shop, bank or post office. The full list of essential shops, post offices and banks is available here
to buy food, medicines and other health products for yourself, your family or someone who is vulnerable or 'cocooning'
to attend medical appointments
for vital family reasons including caring for children, elderly or vulnerable people but excluding social family visits
to exercise within 2 kilometres of your house. You cannot exercise with people from outside your household

the kelt

DeanAustin wrote: »

Leo has said there will be a plan being formulated that will be released in the coming days. I’m sure we can wait that long to see what it is. They are planning a way out of this.

There is an element of everyone making this up as we go along because there are some unknowns about the virus. Singapore, arguably the best run society on the planet, had to reimpose restrictions because the virus came back in a second wave.

That’s my point. It’s that there are unknowns that necessitate a reactionary response at times, not that the government are sitting around saying “ah **** it, we’ll just see how we go”. They quite clearly are planning but those plans will change because of the variables in the equation.

Hopefully so and yes you are right, there are a number of situations where we will need a rapid reactionary response.

Will we see a plan within the next few days though? I mean to date from Leo over the last few weeks I’ve seen there will be a plan to ease restrictions, there may be and there may be a 2/3 week extension as of yesterday!

Meanwhile whilst Leo is talking about possible 2/3 week extension at the same time Simon Harris talking about slight easing and we were told on the 17th we had reached a plateau with the growth rate close to zero yet 4 days ago Leo said we weren’t at the peak.

That’s my point, it’s all over the place. I hope your right and a plan is put in place because at the moment the mish mash of information and contradictory analysis is adding to the frustration.

Let’s hope your right.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

That's not what I said. You asked what other restrictions could be put in place..there's obviously numerous ones but keep moving the goal posts.

Such as?

The list is below.

You are on about flight bans, quarantine healthcare works etc. that will make no difference to Joe Public, except restrict fuel, which is pointless given travel is restricted anyway.

The only reasons you can leave your home

Stay at home in all circumstances, except in the following situations:
to travel to and from work where the work is considered an essential service. The full list of essential services is available here
working in an essential shop, bank or post office. The full list of essential shops, post offices and banks is available here
to buy food, medicines and other health products for yourself, your family or someone who is vulnerable or 'cocooning'
to attend medical appointments
for vital family reasons including caring for children, elderly or vulnerable people but excluding social family visits
to exercise within 2 kilometres of your house. You cannot exercise with people from outside your household

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Trump banned flights from China before Leo, says it all really. He's also stopped immigration, again something Leo hasn't tackled yet, you know because strawberries. I like my strawberries but Leo is taking the preverbial by his inaction.

Tells you more about Trump than it does anything else! He'd have banned then years ago if he's had a chance!

drunkmonkey

GazzaL wrote: »

https://www.newstalk.com/news/drones-wexford-tourists-covid-19-1006019

Wexford County Council have been monitoring holiday parks etc. for 4 weeks so far and haven't found anyone to report to Gardai. I know they probably have nothing better to be doing at the moment, but is this being done at the taxpayer's expense?

You can be absolutely sure we're paying for it, these are probably private operatiors so charging an arm and a leg.

Cantona's Collars

GazzaL wrote: »

https://www.newstalk.com/news/drones-wexford-tourists-covid-19-1006019

Wexford County Council have been monitoring holiday parks etc. for 4 weeks so far and haven't found anyone to report to Gardai. I know they probably have nothing better to be doing at the moment, but is this being done at the taxpayer's expense?

A bit pointless monitoring holiday parks as the gates have been locked on all of them since the lockdown kicked in.
Much harder to monitor once off holiday homes around the county.

kippy

normanoffside wrote: »

It's not though.
I'm not talking about gyms and changing rooms, I am talking about letting them outside into parks and streets while maintaining social distancing (with the amount of police they have on the streets, this could be easily policed).

I have posted studies which show:

• Vitamin D has positive effects on survival of the disease
• There is no evidence of spread in small gatherings in outdoor environments

.

The lack of outdoor exposure for Italians (given that very few have houses or Gardens) is very likely to have damaged the health of the nation more thn it helped it.

It's basic logic. Close gyms. Close parks reduce people's opportunities for social contact, the activities that take place in the areas will be hit badly. Outdoor exercise happens to be one.

You don't need to be exercising for vitamin D, indeed there are vitamin D supplements available.
You don't need to be out doors for exercise at all....

That said I can appreciate your standpoints. It's too soon for studies/evidence in a lot of these areas yet.
The amount of cases they had in parts of Italy required what they did but if they had started a couple of weeks earlier they may not have needed the level.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

Such as?

The list is below.

You are on about flight bans, quarantine healthcare works etc. that will make no difference to Joe Public, except restrict fuel, which is pointless given travel is restricted anyway.

The only reasons you can leave your home

Stay at home in all circumstances, except in the following situations:
to travel to and from work where the work is considered an essential service. The full list of essential services is available here
working in an essential shop, bank or post office. The full list of essential shops, post offices and banks is available here
to buy food, medicines and other health products for yourself, your family or someone who is vulnerable or 'cocooning'
to attend medical appointments
for vital family reasons including caring for children, elderly or vulnerable people but excluding social family visits
to exercise within 2 kilometres of your house. You cannot exercise with people from outside your household

Is Joe Public a healthcare worker or family of healthcare worker.....

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

It's basic logic. Close gyms. Close parks reduce people's opportunities for social contact, the activities that take place in the areas will be hit badly. Outdoor exercise happens to be one.

You don't need to be exercising for vitamin D, indeed there are vitamin D supplements available.
You don't need to be out doors for exercise at all....

That said I can appreciate your standpoints. It's too soon for studies/evidence in a lot of these areas yet.
The amount of cases they had in parts of Italy required what they did but if they had started a couple of weeks earlier they may not have needed the level.

Already closed.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kippy wrote: »

It's basic logic. Close gyms. Close parks reduce people's opportunities for social contact, the activities that take place in the areas will be hit badly. Outdoor exercise happens to be one.

You don't need to be exercising for vitamin D, indeed there are vitamin D supplements available.
You don't need to be out doors for exercise at all....

That said I can appreciate your standpoints. It's too soon for studies/evidence in a lot of these areas yet.
The amount of cases they had in parts of Italy required what they did but if they had started a couple of weeks earlier they may not have needed the level.

Again - going outside neither spreads the virus nor entails meeting up with people.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

Is Joe Public a healthcare worker or family of healthcare worker.....

No, healthcare workers are essential workers.

Procedures are already in place for them, ppe, testing etc.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

Already closed.

Sorry, that post wasn't in response to anything you've said.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

No, healthcare workers are essential workers.

Procedures are already in place for them, ppe, testing etc.

A more restrictive procedure would be to place them in quarentine away from their family.
Is that more restrictive than what is in place currently. Yes or no.

kippy

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Again - going outside neither spreads the virus nor entails meeting up with people.

And again, no one said it but there are enough idiots out there that don't understand the concept of social distancing and/or basic hygiene.
The initial issue was that Italians should have been allowed outside to exercise.
I say no. Because of the amount of cases in Italy and the likelihood of coming into contact directly or indirectly with the virus

DeanAustin

the kelt wrote: »

Hopefully so and yes you are right, there are a number of situations where we will need a rapid reactionary response.

Will we see a plan within the next few days though? I mean to date from Leo over the last few weeks I’ve seen there will be a plan to ease restrictions, there may be and there may be a 2/3 week extension as of yesterday!

Meanwhile whilst Leo is talking about possible 2/3 week extension at the same time Simon Harris talking about slight easing and we were told on the 17th we had reached a plateau with the growth rate close to zero yet 4 days ago Leo said we weren’t at the peak.

That’s my point, it’s all over the place. I hope your right and a plan is put in place because at the moment the mish mash of information and contradictory analysis is adding to the frustration.

Let’s hope your right.

I think those are fair points. The message has been skewed over the last few weeks. Leo did definitively say to Miriam O’Callaghan the other night that a plan was being formulated and will be unveiled before May 5th and it would effectively be a “what if” plan that will allow us to see the way out of this “i.e. if x happens by y date, we’ll do this, if w happens we will do this”. If that isn’t forthcoming, his credibility will be shot to pieces.

I never bought into the bouquets that were being thrown and Leo, Harris and Holohan at the start of this but I do also think some of the criticism now is a bit harsh. There has been a massive change in the general mood of people on here that I’ve seen recently compared to the first few weeks.

Fingers crossed we both get what we want in the next few days.

easypazz

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Again - going outside neither spreads the virus nor entails meeting up with people.

Waste of time trying to engage with him.

He can't find anything on the official list that can be changed (except ban exercise) which will affect Joe Public so keeps going off on tangents about travel bans, restrict fuel etc.

Utopia Parkway

Belgium was hit pretty hard by COVID-19 but their plan for reopening has been leaked.


Experts’ note reveals 3 stages for lifting coronavirus lockdown

Friday, 24 April 2020


A second version of the experts’ note on gradually lifting the lockdown proposes it be done in three phases all dependent on a number of conditions.

The version, obtained by the Dutch and Francophone press, follows a draft report leaked to Le Soir on Wednesday.

The new note by the Group of Experts for an Exit Strategy (GEES) comes ahead of a meeting of the National Security Council, in which government officials are set to announce the steps to ease Belgium out of the coronavirus lockdown.

The GEES sets out three key deconfinement phases which they say should only be activated if a number of conditions is met: that hospital admissions do not rise above 200 per day, that Belgium reaches a daily testing capacity of 25,000 tests per day and that people continue to “drastically reduce” contacts with each other.

The note also says that the use of face masks should be mandatory in public for all residents above the age of 12, according to Le Soir.

Phase 1: 4 May
Shops : garages, bicycle shops, real estate offices allowed to open but only receive customers by appointment. Smaller paint, tile, light and kitchen stores are allowed to reopen.

Outdoor activities : Parks and squares can reopen but playgrounds must remain shut. Outdoor sports which require no physical contact will be allowed again, like tennis, fishing, golf, petanque. Sports can be done with people living in the same household or two friends, always the same.

Sports clubs : Sports clubs can reopen provided they enforce appropriate social-distancing measures and that training is done in the presence of a coach.

Work : Non-essential sectors such as construction or manufacturing can resume activities if they respect with health regulations and social-distancing guidelines. The GEES said that where teleworking is possible, it remains mandatory.

Phase 2: 18 May
Shops : A majority of shops and businesses, including hairdressers, would be allowed to reopen, but face masks must be worn at all times. Restaurants, bars, cinemas, theatres and dancing venues must remain closed.

School : Gradual restart of activities for some school grades and with classes of no more than 10 students. A proposal by the Flemish government to reopen on 15 may for only three schools grades is set to be discussed on Friday.

Museums : Visits to the museum will be possible provided the number of visitors is limited and that social-distancing measures are respected.

Social gatherings : Guidelines on whether to relax the strict rule under which a wedding or a funeral may take place will be studied, but indoor gatherings with over 50 participants will remain banned during this phase.

Phase 3: 8 June
The final phase could see the reopening of restaurants, bars and cafés.

The GEES said that additional phases of deconfinement could still be created, depending on how the situation evolved.

The expert group also said that a decision regarding whether summer camps could go forward would be taken before the end of May.

In the note, the GEES said that it remained necessary to study the evolution of the health situation in Belgium daily, and that it could not be ruled out that lockdowns or new measures be rolled out if the situation worsened.

In an address in parliament on Thursday, Prime Minister Sophie Wilmès also said that there were no guarantees that the phase-out would not be reversed if the situation required it.

Gabriela Galindo
The Brussels Times

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

Waste of time trying to engage with him.

He can't find anything on the official list that can be changed (except ban exercise) which will affect Joe Public so keeps going off on tangents about travel bans, restrict fuel etc.

Haha.
No tangents here. Just trying to get down to your level and failing miserably.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

A more restrictive procedure would be to place them in quarentine away from their family.
Is that more restrictive than what is in place currently. Yes or no.

So you are proposing harsh restrictions on healthcare workers just to try prove some kind of point?

Sad.

the kelt

DeanAustin wrote: »

I think those are fair points. The message has been skewed over the last few weeks. Leo did definitively say to Miriam O’Callaghan the other night that a plan was being formulated and will be unveiled before May 5th and it would effectively be a “what if” plan that will allow us to see the way out of this “i.e. if x happens by y date, we’ll do this, if w happens we will do this”. If that isn’t forthcoming, his credibility will be shot to pieces.

I never bought into the bouquets that were being thrown and Leo, Harris and Holohan at the start of this but I do also think some of the criticism now is a bit harsh. There has been a massive change in the general mood of people on here that I’ve seen recently compared to the first few weeks.

Fingers crossed we both get what we want in the next few days.

Yep completely agree, I’ve noticed myself a change in attitude and mood on here, online and from those I work with and talk to which imho has directly coincided with the mixed messages and skewed rhetoric.

On top of that you have the stories of certain elements of society having it seems free reign to do whatever they so wish and other issues also.

All in all the last thing we need is this collapsing around our ears.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kippy wrote: »

And again, no one said it but there are enough idiots out there that don't understand the concept of social distancing and/or basic hygiene.
The initial issue was that Italians should have been allowed outside to exercise.
I say no. Because of the amount of cases in Italy and the likelihood of coming into contact directly or indirectly with the virus

Unless you're in Italy, this is a moot point.

I'm in Berlin where, as I said, the lockdown has been much milder, instigated at the same time, being routintely flouted and yet the figures of new cases and deaths are extremely low - 75-100 and 3-4 pre day respectively.

In Stockholm, they've had NO lockdown and they've had less cases than Ireland.

In New York, they've had lockdowns and had MORE cases than Ireland.

There is ultimately NO evidence to suggest a stricter lockdown woud make any difference. It depends on the location and the specific social, geographic, features faced by the location in question.

Conclusion: In order to argue for an extended lockdown in a specifci location (Ireland) you need to argue what specific issues said location has that make it nessecary. With evidence.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

Haha.
No tangents here. Just trying to get down to your level and failing miserably.

For the umpteenth time.

Take a look at the list and tell me what further measures can be implemented to increase the lockdown on Joe Public.

Apart from restricting exercise there is nothing else that can be done. And you have failed to come with one single thing.

Restrict fuel supplies, ffs.

coastwatch

There's no doubt the current restrictions and the level of compliance with them, have prevented the spread from getting much worse.
All the numbers are moving in the right direction, but only slowly.
Up to 8pm yesterday, there were still,
985 Hospitalised (749 confirmed + 236 suspected) compared to 1251 at peak 13th April.
144 in ICU (123 confirmed + 21 suspected) compared to 174 at peak on 17th April.

The hospital cases are falling by about 10 per day and the ICU by 2-3 per day.

At those rates, there could still be around 900 hospitalised, including 110 in ICU by 5th May.
That doesn't seem like it will leave a lot of spare capacity in the hospitals for a possible flare up numbers in the following weeks,
so hopefully the numbers will start to fall faster next week, and the trends will be better.

SNNUS

easypazz wrote: »

For the umpteenth time.

Take a look at the list and tell me what further measures can be implemented to increase the lockdown on Joe Public.

Apart from restricting exercise there is nothing else that can be done. And you have failed to come with one single thing.

Restrict fuel supplies, ffs.

Maybe the army should go to every house and confiscate shoes.

normanoffside

SNNUS wrote: »

Maybe the army should go to every house and confiscate shoes.

Some people might go out in their bare feet and spread the virus on the footpaths.

It might be better for them to cut off everyone’s legs.

easypazz

SNNUS wrote: »

Maybe the army should go to every house and confiscate shoes.

And empty all the lawnmowers of petrol.

SNNUS

normanoffside wrote: »

Some people might go out in their bare feet and spread the virus on the footpaths.

It might be better for them to cut off everyone’s legs.

Best to err on the side of caution..

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

For the umpteenth time.

Take a look at the list and tell me what further measures can be implemented to increase the lockdown on Joe Public.

Apart from restricting exercise there is nothing else that can be done. And you have failed to come with one single thing.

Restrict fuel supplies, ffs.

For the second or third time, Italy had a harsher regime. That's how to increase the lockdown on Joe Public...but you know this already.

By the way, for clarity, I'm not in favour of an extension of the current restrictions or an enforcement of harsher restrictions in Ireland. I'd rather see an easing of the current restrictions post the 5th of May. I'm merely pointing out that restrictions could be harsher.

niallo27

So when we do relax and numbers creep up, do people think we will just panic and lockdown again over the smallest increase. That's my worry.

Dickie10

surely when numbers make the jump again we just watch closely, good chance it would be no worse than winter vomiting bug and ICUs are capable of dealing with it. lets not forget thats all this lockdown was for so we could deal with it in ICU. People will still get sick and die of coronavirus. we need to live with it.