Relaxation of restrictions Part II

DeanAustin

the kelt wrote: »

How come other countries in far worse situations can put in place plans as to what will happen in the future, put those plans to the people and execute those plans based on if “x happens and we do x then we can have a situation of y”

It’s isn’t about negotiation or being owed anything, it’s about levelling with people. At no stage during this pandemic should we have an approach of figuring it out as we go along, that would be suicidal, heaven help us if people are ok with this pandemic is being dealt with on a basis of let’s figure it out as we go along.

Rather than as some believe we are only in a state of relative lockdown because a few lads were in a packed pub in temple bar the criteria and timing of the lockdown was planned with measure put in place to mitigate the issues. We put together multiple plans to cope with the worst case scenario rather than figuring it out as we went along such as extra capacity and use of private hospitals etc etc and thankfully the vast majority hasn’t been needed.

But other countries have been capable of plans and execution as to how we move on so no reason why we cannot either imho.

Leo has said there will be a plan being formulated that will be released in the coming days. I’m sure we can wait that long to see what it is. They are planning a way out of this.

There is an element of everyone making this up as we go along because there are some unknowns about the virus. Singapore, arguably the best run society on the planet, had to reimpose restrictions because the virus came back in a second wave.

That’s my point. It’s that there are unknowns that necessitate a reactionary response at times, not that the government are sitting around saying “ah **** it, we’ll just see how we go”. They quite clearly are planning but those plans will change because of the variables in the equation.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

No. There's lots of things that could be added to that list or amended.

Such as?

drunkmonkey

Sweet Jesus there now going to use drones to make sure nobody goes to their second homes. I presume they'll be given refunds when this is over to people paying mortgages on them.
Drones are intrusive, I have one and don't use it for spying but I'm well aware of what an invasion of privacy they can be in the wrong hands.

What Username Guidelines

I know the hse haven’t hit capacity, seems like there’s 2\3rds of beds in acute hospitals available, plus all the private hospitals, citywest, etc. Does anyone know if they’re still adding surge capacity to this in anticipation of relaxed restrictions resulting in more admissions? I presume with social distancing being here to stay it should help slow the rate of transmission somewhat. Problem is if the general public can’t keep it up we’ll be at capacity pretty quick. Seems like there’s lots of anecdotal evidence here of people in supermarkets etc giving up on social distancing already, assuming life will be back to normal on 5th may.

kippy

normanoffside wrote: »

There is no proof that going out for exercise can spread the virus.

Please show me if you have any.

Thanks

Exercise itself isn't the issue. It's the social distance/contact with surfaces that causes the problems. The more people have the virus the more chance you have of picking it up in the community. Be it from places congregate, such as gyms, changing rooms, pitches etc. So reducing exercise options reduces the risk or people picking it up in the community.
Obviously the more prevalent the virus is (as Italy) the more chance people going out for exercise will pick it up.
Again. This is all basic logic.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

Exercise itself isn't the issue. It's the social distance/contact with surfaces that causes the problems. The more people have the virus the more chance you have of picking it up in the community. Be it from places congregate, such as gyms, changing rooms, pitches etc. So reducing exercise options reduces the risk or people picking it up in the community.
Obviously the more prevalent the virus is (as Italy) the more chance people going out for exercise will pick it up.
Again. This is all basic logic.

But all these options have been removed. Did you miss that.

You are only allowed exercise with members of your family and keep 2 metres away from anybody else you encounter.

DeanAustin

MadYaker wrote: »

Condidering the gardai can't even enforce current restrictions what would be the point in the government announcing more restrictions? I think they have no choice but to allow more movement after May 5th. The longer this goes on more people will ignore the restrictions anyway and I don't think there's anything that can be done about it. I haven't been stopped once by Gardai since this started.

They said from the start that the restrictions couldn’t be enforced and that it would be up to people to take personal responsibility. Likewise if they introduce tougher measures.

It’s up to people then to either listen to advice being given with then intention of ridding our society of the virus or ignore it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kippy wrote: »

This is the crux of it. It can't be much more restrictive as there are too many fools out there who just can't do what they are told for a small portion of their life.

How long is it now since the restrictions came in? and people were complyign with it for the most part?

kippy wrote: »

Softer lockdowns can work if started early enough and if compliance is high.
Again the variables at play are not the same in every country or situation.

I've seen softer workdowns set up at the same time and with mild compliance at work fine.

The more prevalent the virus is the more rational that stopping people go outside for exercise becomes...
But again people who don't understand basic logic are never going to understand what I've just said. So it's pointless even pointing it out.

I still don't understand how people make the mistake of "going outside" means potentially spreading the virus. It doesn't. Meeting people spreads it.

And you can get exercise without meeting people.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

Such as?

Ah jesus.
Complete stoppage of international travel outside of goods.
Mandatory 2 week quarentine of all incoming to the country.
Petrol and diesel restrictions for all but essential vehicles.
Mandatory quarentine of medical staff.
The list could go on.

iamwhoiam

DeanAustin wrote: »

They said from the start that the restrictions couldn’t be enforced and that it would be up to people to take personal responsibility. Likewise if they introduce tougher measures.

It’s up to people then to either listen to advice being given with then intention of ridding our society of the virus or ignore it.

You will get a minority who wont listen or abide so how do you deal with them ? While the rest of us all hunker down they do as they damn well please

prunudo

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's worse than that, in the panic to free up bed capacity they transferred old folk from the hospitals into the nursing homes, some of these had Covid. That's according to Newstalk this morning. They literally caused the problem which should have been the number 1 thing they didn't do.
A majority of the deaths in nursing homes are a result of this policy. It's about the dumbest thing the government could have done.

https://extra.ie/2020/04/26/news/irish-news/hse-patients-virus-care-homes/amp

Presume this is what they were referring too, sounds shambolic. The mask is slipping on the handling of this situation.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kippy wrote: »

Ah jesus.
Complete stoppage of international travel outside of goods.
Mandatory 2 week quarentine of all incoming to the country.
Petrol and diesel restrictions for all but essential vehicles.
Mandatory quarentine of medical staff.
The list could go on.

Those are not acts of extending a lockdown.

MadYaker

kippy wrote: »

Ah jesus.
Complete stoppage of international travel outside of goods.
Mandatory 2 week quarentine of all incoming to the country.
Petrol and diesel restrictions for all but essential vehicles.
Mandatory quarentine of medical staff.
The list could go on.

Who are you going to be quarantining if you block all international travel? You're talking out your ring. How does restricting fuel reduce transmission of the virus????

DeanAustin

iamwhoiam wrote: »

You will get a minority who wont listen or abide so how do you deal with them ? While the rest of us all hunker down they do as they damn well please

**** knows. It’s not right and not fair but as unfair as that is, I’m sure the fact that 95%+ are pretty much complying has done a lot to slow the spread of the virus and hopefully that will be enough to get us through this. Sadly, you’ll never get 100% compliance.

kippy

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How long is it now since the restrictions came in? and people were complyign with it for the most part?



I've seen softer workdowns set up at the same time and with mild compliance at work fine.



I still don't understand how people make the mistake of "going outside" means potentially spreading the virus. It doesn't. Meeting people spreads it.

And you can get exercise without meeting people.

I don't disagree. But like 'work' there are certain environments and work practices that can be maintained in this new reality, others where some additional safeguards have to be put in place, and others that have to be stopped altogether.

drunkmonkey

kippy wrote: »

Ah jesus.
Complete stoppage of international travel outside of goods.
Mandatory 2 week quarentine of all incoming to the country.
Petrol and diesel restrictions for all but essential vehicles.
Mandatory quarentine of medical staff.
The list could go on.

I don't agree with limiting fuel to people. All the other measure should have been implemented at the start of lockdown without question.
Medical staff should no be returning to their homes in the community and neither should Guards, it's very harsh but their families are out and about.
Plenty of accommodation available in nice locations for all these front lines.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

Complete stoppage of international travel outside of goods.

Some international travel is still essential for medical, repatriation, food supply, other than that none of us are allowed travel to an airport, you must have missed that.

kippy wrote: »

A
Mandatory 2 week quarentine of all incoming to the country.

Doesn't affect any of who live here. Wouldn't change the lockdown conditions for Joe Public.

kippy wrote: »

Petrol and diesel restrictions for all but essential vehicles.

We are only allowed make essential journeys anyway so this is silly.

kippy wrote: »

Mandatory quarentine of medical staff.

Pretty sure procedures are in place anyway, testing, ppe, COVID only ward etc.

Again how would this affect lockdown conditions for Joe Public.

kippy wrote: »

The list could go on.

Please continue, because so far not 1 of your proposals will make a blind bit of difference to Joe Publics lockdown conditions, as stated in the gov.ie list.

kippy

MadYaker wrote: »

Who are you going to be quarantining if you block all international travel? You're talking out your ring. How does restricting fuel reduce transmission of the virus????

Those that have just arrived in before the block comes into force. Give two weeks notice. Anyone who arrives in those two weeks quarentine. Any essential travellers during the block get quarentined. Not rocket science lad,.....
Restricting fuel should be obvious.

I am not saying these things will or should happen. Just that they are more restrictive than currently in place which is essentially what the poster was asking.

drunkmonkey

prunudo wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2020/04/26/news/irish-news/hse-patients-virus-care-homes/amp

Presume this is what they were referring too, sounds shambolic. The mask is slipping on the handling of this situation.

Yea that's what was on newstalk. To quote;

Hospital patients were deemed eligible for transfer to care homes even if they were showing symptoms and had been identified as close contacts of others who were Covid-positive.

‘Definitely it was a big contributory factor,’ Nursing Home Ireland’s CEO Tadhg Daly told the Irish Mail on Sunday. ‘Quite a significant number of nursing home cases would have been transferees,’ he said.

Could they have screwed it up even more you wouldn't have thought so but they did by allowing health care workers to move between locations.

Penfailed

MadYaker wrote: »

You're talking out your ring. How does restricting fuel reduce transmission of the virus????

It doesn't necessarily...but that's not the question that was asked. He was asked about further restrictions.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

Some international travel is still essential for medical, repatriation, food supply, other than that none of us are allowed travel to an airport, you must have missed that.



Doesn't affect any of who live here. Wouldn't change the lockdown conditions for Joe Public.



We are only allowed make essential journeys anyway so this is silly.



Pretty sure procedures are in place anyway, testing, ppe, COVID only ward etc.

Again how would this affect lockdown conditions for Joe Public.



Please continue, because so far not 1 of your proposals will make a blind bit of difference to Joe Publics lockdown conditions, as stated in the gov.ie list.

Not being allowed outside the house for anything wouldn't make a bit of difference to Joe Public?
Listen, you are clearly having some issues. As has been suggested might be worth your while doing something more productive with your time.

kippy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't agree with limiting fuel to people. All the other measure should have been implemented at the start of lockdown without question.
Medical staff should no be returning to their homes in the community and neither should Guards, it's very harsh but their families are out and about.
Plenty of accommodation available in nice locations for all these front lines.

As I said, am not suggesting they be enacted, just that they are all more restrictive than the current situation which is what the ever moving goalposts were set at.
It's absolutely ludacris that restrictions and mandatory quarentine around international travel wasn't put in place months ago alright

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

Not being allowed outside the house for anything wouldn't make a bit of difference to Joe Public?

What are you on about now.

If we couldn't go out for food we would all die.

First you want to restrict fuel, now you want to stop eating.

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

How?

Ban exercise, would you be happy then?

There are many ways. I've already explained that Italy had stricter policies. Banning exercise would be one way. You know all these things already. You are being obtuse.

...and no, I wouldn't be happy then. I'm not currently happy now. I accept the reasoning though.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

What are you on about now.

If we couldn't go out for food we would all die.

First you want to restrict fuel, now you want to stop eating.

That's not what I said. You asked what other restrictions could be put in place..there's obviously numerous ones but keep moving the goal posts.

GazzaL

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Sweet Jesus there now going to use drones to make sure nobody goes to their second homes. I presume they'll be given refunds when this is over to people paying mortgages on them.
Drones are intrusive, I have one and don't use it for spying but I'm well aware of what an invasion of privacy they can be in the wrong hands.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/drones-wexford-tourists-covid-19-1006019

Wexford County Council have been monitoring holiday parks etc. for 4 weeks so far and haven't found anyone to report to Gardai. I know they probably have nothing better to be doing at the moment, but is this being done at the taxpayer's expense?

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

now you want to stop eating.

No one has suggested that. You are being facetious.

normanoffside

kippy wrote: »

Exercise itself isn't the issue. It's the social distance/contact with surfaces that causes the problems. The more people have the virus the more chance you have of picking it up in the community. Be it from places congregate, such as gyms, changing rooms, pitches etc. So reducing exercise options reduces the risk or people picking it up in the community.
Obviously the more prevalent the virus is (as Italy) the more chance people going out for exercise will pick it up.
Again. This is all basic logic.

It's not though.
I'm not talking about gyms and changing rooms, I am talking about letting them outside into parks and streets while maintaining social distancing (with the amount of police they have on the streets, this could be easily policed).

I have posted studies which show:

• Vitamin D has positive effects on survival from the disease
• There is no evidence of spread in small gatherings in outdoor environments

.

The lack of outdoor exposure for Italians (given that very few have houses or Gardens) is very likely to have damaged the health of the nation more thn it helped it.

drunkmonkey

kippy wrote: »

As I said, am not suggesting they be enacted, just that they are all more restrictive than the current situation which is what the ever moving goalposts were set at.
It's absolutely ludacris that restrictions and mandatory quarentine around international travel wasn't put in place months ago alright

Trump banned flights from China before Leo, says it all really. He's also stopped immigration, again something Leo hasn't tackled yet, you know because strawberries. I like my strawberries but Leo is taking the preverbial by his inaction.

We're being too soft on health care workers by allowing them back to their family homes. It's a massive risk to all of us, health care workers are aware of it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kippy wrote: »

I don't disagree. But like 'work' there are certain environments and work practices that can be maintained in this new reality, others where some additional safeguards have to be put in place, and others that have to be stopped altogether.

Lockdown was always only going to be temporay. It's not desinged to stop the virus or save lives, it's designed for one purpose and one purpose only: to buy time; which would be used to take the stress off the health services.

How much time it buys was aleays going to be finite, and is going to depend more on the public and its collective patience than the government, and that time in Ireland now appears to have reached an end.