Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Dont mind that bluffer,the average age in icu last reported was 60

Thanks, refreshing to see facts not invective

seamus

Why is Ireland still closed, when the rest of the world is getting going?

Because they're not just going to open up one morning and declare the thing over.

Italy and Spain have been in lockdown considerably longer and harder than we have. Practically there is only so long a lockdown can continue. Their cases have also peaked for a very different reason to us.
The "lifted" lockdown in Spain is still more restrictive than we have it right now.

I wouldn't look to the US for guidance on this at all.

Hearty80

seamus wrote: »

Because they're not just going to open up one morning and declare the thing over.

Italy and Spain have been in lockdown considerably longer and harder than we have. Practically there is only so long a lockdown can continue. Their cases have also peaked for a very different reason to us.
The "lifted" lockdown in Spain is still more restrictive than we have it right now.

I wouldn't look to the US for guidance on this at all.

In fairness no one expects to wake up one morning and for the government to declare this over. That's just ridiculous, but a detailed plan would be fair.

kippy

GazzaL wrote: »

There are SMEs including retailers that can put in place better social distancing than supermarkets, yet they aren't being allowed to open.

Huge permanent job losses to follow.

Thanks Leo. Thanks Tony.

What type of SME's?

BillyBiggs

BillyBiggs wrote: »

Has the whole lockdown become a farce, with Italy and Spain reopening in Europe and their death rates not being particularly low yet? Also America is reopening quite fast, with little improvement. Why is Ireland still closed, when the rest of the world is getting going?

Italy and Spain are removing some restrictions after 2 months. In a controlled manner, with the option to revert at any point. It remains to be seen if its to early or not. We only locked down 6 weeks ago. Would it not be prudent to be sure and wait a while longer. End up in the position of a New Zealand with low and controllable case numbers and not a Singapore which opened early and is seeing a massive spike. Its a balance, and we have to hope to be on the right side of that balance

Hearty80

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Italy and Spain are removing some restrictions after 2 months. In a controlled manner, with the option to revert at any point. It remains to be seen if its to early or not. We only locked down 6 weeks ago. Would it not be prudent to be sure and wait a while longer. End up in the position of a New Zealand with low and controllable case numbers and not a Singapore which opened early and is seeing a massive spike. Its a balance, and we have to hope to be on the right side of that balance

Hard to compare the southern hemisphere to Europe, we are the worst affected outside of America. It has just not had the same effect there.

SNNUS

Deleted User wrote: »

Italy and Spain are removing some restrictions after 2 months. In a controlled manner, with the option to revert at any point. It remains to be seen if its to early or not. We only locked down 6 weeks ago. Would it not be prudent to be sure and wait a while longer. End up in the position of a New Zealand with low and controllable case numbers and not a Singapore which opened early and is seeing a massive spike. Its a balance, and we have to hope to be on the right side of that balance

You can hide as long as you want, the virus will still be there when you finally step out into the economic wastelands.

stephenjmcd

faceman wrote: »

Look at us now. Only a few weeks ago the vast majority of posters and general public were supportive of lockdown measures. But now....

Crèches and preschools not opening till September. No published plan. Lies from the government. Lack of transparency from the government. Leaking information to the media. A divided cabinet. Other countries in Europe publishing their plans.

We are going to see a divided Ireland. Working couples with young kids are going to be in one camp and older people over 45/50 will be in another.

Next week is going to get very interesting. The Gardai will have to get stricter and we may see a play out of water charges type dilemmas.

Even Spain who have the a severely strict lockdown and haven’t offered income support to people have published a detailed plan and public support remains. (Although cops there take no shít)

On the gardai point, Drew Harris said yesterday that the current levels of policing wont be sustainable.

"We can't keep going at this operational tempo, which began around the 16th of March, indefinitely, or indeed, for very much longer,"

growleaves

The paranoid style in COVID-19 America

Nursing homes are ground zero for the disease since their populations are exclusively the elderly infirm. Twenty-three percent of all coronavirus deaths nationwide were in nursing homes, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis. In Minnesota, 73 percent of total deaths were linked to long-term care facilities. In Massachusetts, 55 percent of all deaths were in such facilities.

To cancel most of the country’s economy for a problem, however tragic, that is highly localized was a devastating policy blunder that must be immediately corrected. The lockdowns are taking a scythe to everything that makes human existence both possible and meaningful. Lives are being lost to the overreaction. Heart attack and stroke victims shrink from calling 911 lest they burden hospitals now dedicated exclusively to COVID-19 cases. Cancer victims have had their stem cell transplants put on hold; heart surgeries are being postponed indefinitely. The cancellation of ‘nonessential’ procedures has prevented the diagnosis of life-threatening diseases, writes a former chief of neuroradiology at the Stanford University Medical Center. Tumors and potentially deadly brain aneurysms are going undetected. Drug abuse deaths from economic despair and isolation may already be rising, as data out of Ohio suggests. The United Nations predicts tens of millions more lives globally stunted by extreme poverty and hundreds of thousands of childhood deaths.

Hearty80

Hearty80 wrote: »

In fairness no one expects to wake up one morning and for the government to declare this over. That's just ridiculous, but a detailed plan would be fair.

We all know how that would end though - a ****fight as everyone would pick on their pet indicator from the plan as to why things should be opened up quicker / locked down tighter because in general the public don't have the capability, knowledge on inclination to take an overall view

Spencer Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

Italy and Spain are removing some restrictions after 2 months. In a controlled manner, with the option to revert at any point. It remains to be seen if its to early or not. We only locked down 6 weeks ago. Would it not be prudent to be sure and wait a while longer. End up in the position of a New Zealand with low and controllable case numbers and not a Singapore which opened early and is seeing a massive spike. Its a balance, and we have to hope to be on the right side of that balance

2 months? Spain started on the 14th March. 6 and a half weeks ago.

Hearty80

Hearty80 wrote: »

Hard to compare the southern hemisphere to Europe, we are the worst affected outside of America. It has just not had the same effect there.

I am more talking about coming out the other side, not how we fared going in to this. New Zealand was nothing like Europe at the start and any comparison to the current state is worthless, but we can hope we can come out the other side in a similar position

Penfailed

BillyBiggs wrote: »

Has the whole lockdown become a farce, with Italy and Spain reopening in Europe and their death rates not being particularly low yet? Also America is reopening quite fast, with little improvement. Why is Ireland still closed, when the rest of the world is getting going?

Spain has not reopened! They have eased some restrictions but even in doing so, they are still living with stricter conditions than we are. They're further down the road as the virus hit there earlier than it did here.

growleaves

The Truth (and Lies) about Coronavirus

SNNUS

SNNUS wrote: »

You can hide as long as you want, the virus will still be there when you finally step out into the economic wastelands.

Stepping out a bit the 6th, 13th or 20th of is not massive from an economic point of view, could be massive from an infection control point of view though. Cant continue at current levels for much longer than that though

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

Where did this not happen outside south east asia? Hindsight is brilliant, but globally governments were taking their queue from the WHO who were being hoodwinked by China

It happend in retail late January early February, some weren't waiting for the government or media to cop on. Once there was stock shortages it became apparent there was a major problem. I bought sanatizer in January and topped up with a larger order the first week of February. That was aimed at protecting my staff, they thought I was gone a bit mad to begin with.

Hooked

Time to get us back living (albeit limited lives), and not sacrifice our kids, mental health and the economy for the sake of those who will no doubt die. We have to balance living with Covid-19 - continuing social distancing and wearing PPE where necessary (with good hygiene). Not hide away, stepping in and out of various states of lockdown for years to come.


I think that Spock said it best...

The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few...

Jinglejangle69

Still can't believe people can't wait until tomorrow to see the plan before loosing their heads.

Please just wait and see.

Jinglejangle69

Penfailed wrote: »

Spain has not reopened! They have eased some restrictions but even in doing so, they are still living with stricter conditions than we are. They're further down the road as the virus hit there earlier than it did here.

Spanish kids were allowed out of their apartments for an hour a day for the first time in 6 weeks on Monday.

Irish people aren't resilient.

That's what I've taken from this whole episode.

Stark

And there are children in Africa dying of disease and hunger. Your point?

Spencer Brown

growleaves wrote: »

The Truth (and Lies) about Coronavirus

The problem with this kind of article is the lockdowns have now been done, we'll never know which of the restrictions were actually effective as we have nothing to compare against.

Podge201

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Spanish kids were allowed out of their apartments for an hour a day for the first time in 6 weeks on Monday.

Irish people aren't resilient.

That's what I've taken from this whole episode.

The majority of the Irish would want a giant dido stuck up their behind.

Jinglejangle69

road_high wrote: »

Don’t need to- here’s Leo’s master plan- “we’ll continue as we are and see if it reduces. And a few hero’s and capes thrown in.”
He’s probably practicing the script as we speak from the advisors and PR agents. Few touch ups from the last one and he’s away. And the next one....

Right so.

Cry away like a child.

Hearty80

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Still can't believe people can't wait until tomorrow to see the plan before loosing their heads.

Please just wait and see.

Is it happening tomorrow? Well that's good news, what time is it on? And what channel will it be on? Thanks

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It happend in retail late January early February, some weren't waiting for the government or media to cop on. Once there was stock shortages it became apparent there was a major problem. I bought sanatizer in January and topped up with a larger order the first week of February. That was aimed at protecting my staff, they thought I was gone a bit mad to begin with.

Imagine the threads if the government had shut down the country when the rest of Europe was wide open

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

They're further down the road as the virus hit there earlier than it did here.

Source?

growleaves

Spencer Brown wrote: »

The problem with this kind of article is the lockdowns have now been done, we'll never know which of the restrictions were actually effective as we have nothing to compare against.

We'll have comparisons with other countries.

Japan, with an elderly and highly urban population of 126.5 million, eschewed a nationwide economic lockdown and emphasized instead the need to avoid the three Cs: confined spaces, crowded places, and close contact. It has had only 360 deaths as of April 26.

The excuses put forward here - "Swedish culture is well-behaved, Irish people are inferior", "The Bulgarian government are liars" - are a really a kind of sulking. Real scientific comparisons will made between different restrictions and between what we know (or find out) about the virus itself. Then insights, conclusions and recommendations will be possible.

drunkmonkey

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Still can't believe people can't wait until tomorrow to see the plan before loosing their heads.

Please just wait and see.

We know the plan, Tony pretty much said it last night when pushed. Pushing the government to announce a plan rather than wait for more data is going to cause extended restrictions of our own doing. I think if you ask Tony next Tuesday instead of pushing Leo for a plan on Friday it might be less restrictive. Friday is too early to announce. The current plan runs until the 5th then there should be an announcement that day.

Jinglejangle69

Hearty80 wrote: »

Is it happening tomorrow? Well that's good news, what time is it on? And what channel will it be on? Thanks

Dunno.

But it's been announced we will hear tomorrow.

If you manage to dress yourself tommorrow morning I'm sure you can turn on the TV or radio.

Although I wouldn't be so confident with some people around here.

maxsmum

Podge201 wrote: »

The majority of the Irish would want a giant dido stuck up their behind.

I'd prefer a giant dildo to a giant Dido, tbh