How will schools be able to go back in September?

wirelessdude01

AngeloArgue wrote: »

I'd say if social distancing is still in place in September then the most students that would fit in typical classrooms would be 6-9. Given that classes are usually 3 to 4 times this then something has to give.

Either dispense with social distancing among students or hire more teachers and open up more classrooms.

Huge problem with this is where do you get the extra teachers and perhaps more pressing would be where would all the new classrooms be got? In most schools you would require 2 additional classrooms for each existing classroom. Prefabs I hear, definitely not that many prefabs lying around.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/our-wellbeing-is-important-too-6th-class-boy-asks-taoiseach-to-allow-school-to-reopen-for-last-funday-1001753.html


I think this lad is right , its not a big ask and would make a lot of young people very happy if it could be done .

That is quite heartbreaking to read, such an aware and articulate young man.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Huge problem with this is where do you get the extra teachers and perhaps more pressing would be where would all the new classrooms be got? In most schools you would require 2 additional classrooms for each existing classroom. Prefabs I hear, definitely not that many prefabs lying around.

So theres no option for increased capacity at a distance, we all know that our schools are already overcrowded and underfunded.

The other option is to remove or reduce the social distancing requirement or send kids to school for one day a week until a vaccine is found.

Now which one of those options do you think the government will go for?

Or you could have rapid testing, contact tracing, antibodies testing and increased hygiene. That's the reality, our schools are not built for social distancing and neither are children.

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

That is quite heartbreaking to read, such an aware and articulate young man.

Lovely letter alright. It was sent to me by a parent earlier asking me what I thought? My response was that nice and heart wrenching.as it is, if Tony and Leo bow to stuff like that then they need to run out of town. Either it is safe or it isn't, a son story should play no part in a decision like this.

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So theres no option for increased capacity at a distance, we all know that our schools are already overcrowded and underfunded.

The other option is to remove or reduce the social distancing requirement or send kids to school for one day a week until a vaccine is found.

Now which one of those options do you think the government will go for?

What do you mean increased capacity at a distance? Can only speak for my school but we have no spare capacity hiding as storage space. I only know of one big school that had additional capacity inbuilt when they got their new building but only 5 rooms left empty now due to growing numbers. Still would need 40 prefabs to meet the requirements as put forward in that previous posts. Don't think even using all the yard space they have could facilitate them.

Dravokivich

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So theres no option for increased capacity at a distance, we all know that our schools are already overcrowded and underfunded.

The other option is to remove or reduce the social distancing requirement or send kids to school for one day a week until a vaccine is found.

Now which one of those options do you think the government will go for?

Or you could have rapid testing, contact tracing, antibodies testing and increased hygiene. That's the reality, our schools are not built for social distancing and neither are children.

Someone else said something similar to this, but gave no insight into why they proposed it here. Why do you consider it to be an "option" or do you just want to seem like you are putting forward ideas, while others arent? I don't see how it could be an option at all.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What do you mean increased capacity at a distance? Can only speak for my school but we have no spare capacity hiding as storage space. I only know of one big school that had additional capacity inbuilt when they got their new building but only 5 rooms left empty now due to growing numbers. Still would need 40 prefabs to meet the requirements as put forward in that previous posts. Don't think even using all the yard space they have could facilitate them.

That's what I'm saying, the schools can't facilitate all students while maintaining social distancing.

Large number of schools where I am and all are packed to capacity some are continously building on to meet current requirements and then of course you have the extra prefabs too, all are full.

So the government will need to decide, continue social distancing or allow kids to attend school once a week (classes would need to be a quarter of their current size to distance so once a week for each child would be as good as it gets).

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

That's what I'm saying, the schools can't facilitate all students while maintaining social distancing.

Large number of schools where I am and all are packed to capacity some are continously building on to meet current requirements and then of course you have the extra prefabs too, all are full.

So the government will need to decide, continue social distancing or allow kids to attend school once a week (classes would need to be a quarter of their current size to distance so once a week for each child would be as good as it gets).

I'd fully expect your good self to be on boards giving out stink if kids and families are told only to attend school in a physical building once a week.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Dravokivich wrote: »

Someone else said something similar to this, but gave no insight into why they proposed it here. Why do you consider it to be an "option" or do you just want to seem like you are putting forward ideas, while others arent? I don't see how it could be an option at all.

Either do I, not at all. Its not an option that should even be on the table.

But that has been suggested by some, wait for a vaccine "this is our new normal".

I mean when it's discussed around social distancing in school what's the end game? When will people be happy to not social distance again?

Our schools can't cope with distancing and continue to provide for all students.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I'd fully expect your good self to be on boards giving out stink if kids and families are told only to attend school in a physical building once a week.

Well that's what will happen if schools expect social distancing guidelines to stay the same.

A day here or there or two half days a week, I wouldn't bother to be honest. Kids lives will be well back to normal by then outside of school.

So Leo and Tony etc, do you think they'll admit that we can't have pupils in school social distance because of our huge class sizes and poor infrastructure or do you think they'll reduce the social distance requirement?

iamwhoiam

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Lovely letter alright. It was sent to me by a parent earlier asking me what I thought? My response was that nice and heart wrenching.as it is, if Tony and Leo bow to stuff like that then they need to be run out of town. Either it is safe or it isn't, a sob story should play no part in a decision like this.

Would it not be more productive to seek solutions instead of the obstacles ?

The two positive links I posted this week you immediately knocked them down

Dravokivich

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Either do I, not at all. Its not an option that should even be on the table.

But that has been suggested by some, wait for a vaccine "this is our new normal".

I mean when it's discussed around social distancing in school what's the end game? When will people be happy to not social distance again?

Our schools can't cope with distancing and continue to provide for all students.

Why are you keeping it "on the table" then?

Kids understand the need for social distancing. My 6 year old got it pretty quickly. So don't worry about that.

People will be happy to not social distance, when there's enough information out to say Covid-19 has been starved off. But that's not unique to schools.

khalessi

Well regardless of what protocols will be put in place the parents will have to adhere to them whether is day on day off attendance or week in week out or no change at all. But I fully expect there to be some protocols because staff and visitors to school building have to be protected too.

It will be put in place for the benefit of their children. Children often do stuff in school they do not do at home and I think the vast majority will manage sd because they are used to classrooms having certain protocols, lining up, hands up before you speak etc. There will always be one or two who wont adhere and they can be sent home. There will of course be allowances for children with special needs.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why are you keeping it "on the table" then?

Kids understand the need for social distancing. My 6 year old got it pretty quickly. So don't worry about that.

People will be happy to not social distance, when there's enough information out to say Covid-19 has been starved off. But that's not unique to schools.

I'm pointing out how ridiculous an option it is, we all social distance until there's a vaccine? That's what some people are suggesting and the problem is that social distancing is already on the way out anyway.

People aren't afraid enough any more to keep it up. The risk is not there enough now and people are fast realising that.

We already meet the WHO criteria for reopening schools.

iamwhoiam

I see some difficulties arising with teachers child care . Then if teachers are in school every day but their kids are only in two or three days it will raise problems for many parents including teachers themselves

wirelessdude01

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Would it not be more productive to seek solutions instead of the obstacles ?

The two positive links I posted this week you immediately knocked them down

Not knocking anything you put up. You could my dearly departed mam for all I care. I comment on the post and if I have a differing point of view I will say it. Lots of people on here don't have first hand, practical experience of how schools work. Having attended a school doesn't give one experience. I would never give a dentist advice just because I go to one regularly.

I would consider myself a realist and pragmatist. If they were to be swayed by a sob letter, let's face it that is exactly what that letter is, then neither of the two of them should be anywhere near decision making when it comes to the health of the public.

khalessi

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I see some difficulties arising with teachers child care . Then if teachers are in school every day but their kids are only in two or three days it will raise problems for many parents including teachers themselves

That could be an issue alright especially where teachers are single parents but hopefully it can be managed.

Dravokivich

khalessi wrote: »

Well regardless of what protocols will be put in place the parents will have to adhere to them whether is day on day off attendance or week in week out or no change at all. But I fully expect there to be some protocols because staff and visitors to school building have to be protected too.

It will be put in place for the benefit of their children. Children often do stuff in school they do not do at home and I think the vast majority will manage sd because they are used to classrooms having certain protocols, lining up, hands up before you speak etc. There will always be one or two who wont adhere and they can be sent home. There will of course be allowances for children with special needs.

Being in school part time won't work. The kid has to be somewhere else the rest of the time. Pushing the risk somewhere else isn't really an option.

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I'm pointing out how ridiculous an option it is, we all social distance until there's a vaccine? That's what some people are suggesting and the problem is that social distancing is already on the way out anyway.

People aren't afraid enough any more to keep it up. The risk is not there enough now and people are fast realising that.

We already meet the WHO criteria for reopening schools.

Social Distancing isn't a ridiculous option. Ridicule the wreckless, not the bulldozed.

AngeloArgue

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Huge problem with this is where do you get the extra teachers and perhaps more pressing would be where would all the new classrooms be got? In most schools you would require 2 additional classrooms for each existing classroom. Prefabs I hear, definitely not that many prefabs lying around.

Personally I think it's unrealistic to expect 2 meter distancing in classrooms. But overcrowding could be mitigated against. There are large numbers of teachers unable to get permanent teaching jobs and as with doctors and nurses in our hospitals the numbers entering the profession are kept low through limiting training places.

DSN

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Would it not be more productive to seek solutions instead of the obstacles ?

The two positive links I posted this week you immediately knocked them down

Our principal is making some tentative plans for a graduation - outdoors & small groups later on. It is possible & hope it works out in some shape or form. As others said already kids are meeting up outside & by end of June it's be a whole other ballgame again. Lets put some fun back into learning all they've had for the past couple months is tedious worksheets & Ms Trunchball (me) for a so called teacher & annoying sibling to (torture) play with.

DSN

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I see some difficulties arising with teachers child care . Then if teachers are in school every day but their kids are only in two or three days it will raise problems for many parents including teachers themselves

Why does it become more of an issue when it's teachers kids & they have to work? When anyone else says it they are told 'school is not for childminding'

arctictree

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Primary school near my SIL, has a few teachers who are very overweight and with underlining health conditions who are refusing to go back in September unless they are given certain assurances, and their colleagues are supporting their stance... haven't a clue what union they are

I don't see what the problem is, there is no one forcing them to work. Just hire a new teacher and pay them instead...

ldy4mxonucwsq6

DSN wrote: »

Why does it become more of an issue when it's teachers kids & they have to work? When anyone else says it they are told 'school is not for childminding'

And when plenty of people have been somehow managing to both work and have schools closed since March.

Sometimes people have trouble seeing the bigger picture until it effects them directly.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

khalessi wrote: »

That could be an issue alright especially where teachers are single parents but hopefully it can be managed.

All those doctors, nurses and all other essential workers still have no childcare solution after nearly 11 weeks so I wouldn't be holding my breath.

iamwhoiam

DSN wrote: »

Why does it become more of an issue when it's teachers kids & they have to work? When anyone else says it they are told 'school is not for childminding'

It isnt more of an issue its the same issue
Believe me I am not a teacher and see the bigger picture . My own daughter is struggling with working from home and two small kids to look after
Its is no more or no less an issue for her than for a teacher

iamwhoiam

DSN wrote: »

Our principal is making some tentative plans for a graduation - outdoors & small groups later on. It is possible & hope it works out in some shape or form. As others said already kids are meeting up outside & by end of June it's be a whole other ballgame again. Lets put some fun back into learning all they've had for the past couple months is tedious worksheets & Ms Trunchball (me) for a so called teacher & annoying sibling to (torture) play with.

Its funny you say that , my daughter is calling her childs teacher Miss Honey since lockdown !! She has been so sweet and kind with the little ones

History Queen

khalessi wrote: »

That could be an issue alright especially where teachers are single parents but hopefully it can be managed.

Would also be an issue regarding how education is provided to those at home. If a teacher is dealing with groups every day who is teaching those at home? The more I read about schools that have opened the more I hope that we will be able to open with enhanced cleaning and hygiene and less reliance on social distancing so that education can continue.

BonsaiKitten

AngeloArgue wrote: »

Personally I think it's unrealistic to expect 2 meter distancing in classrooms. But overcrowding could be mitigated against. There are large numbers of teachers unable to get permanent teaching jobs and as with doctors and nurses in our hospitals the numbers entering the profession are kept low through limiting training places.

Are there? Perhaps there are at secondary but there are primary teacher shortages, certainly in Dublin at least. Couldn't get subs for love nor money this year and I know of a couple of schools who couldn't find anyone to cover maternity leaves.

The 6th class letter is sad but I wonder - what exactly does this fun last day look like in his eyes? The English schools are going back but if you read about their setups it really doesn't seem very happy. I have no prob with going back (and will happily teach my full class in September). But bringing 6th back for one day and only being able to do limited activities with them might upset the kids more. It won't be how they pictured their final day.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

The 6th class letter is sad but I wonder - what exactly does this fun last day look like in his eyes? The English schools are going back but if you read about their setups it really doesn't seem very happy. I have no prob with going back (and will happily teach my full class in September). But bringing 6th back for one day and only being able to do limited activities with them might upset the kids more. It won't be how they pictured their final day.

I think the parents could probably find a way to do something without the schools. Something organised but within the guidelines.

There's about 25 kids out playing on the green here all in their different little groups.

The sounds from them, laughing, shouting and playing is most welcome and has been mostly absent for too long a time. I know they have had stress from this, it would be hard not to but they bounce back fast!

Delighted to see normal life returning, you don't realise how much we take for granted until we no longer have it.

wirelessdude01

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Are there? Perhaps there are at secondary but there are primary teacher shortages, certainly in Dublin at least. Couldn't get subs for love nor money this year and I know of a couple of schools who couldn't find anyone to cover maternity leaves.

The 6th class letter is sad but I wonder - what exactly does this fun last day look like in his eyes? The English schools are going back but if you read about their setups it really doesn't seem very happy. I have no prob with going back (and will happily teach my full class in September). But bringing 6th back for one day and only being able to do limited activities with them might upset the kids more. It won't be how they pictured their final day.

Bet he thinks that it would be like the other last days he remembers from previous years. No allowed to be in physical contact with each other. No signing each others clothes. Boys not allowed high five. Girls not allowed jug each other. They haven't a clue how restricted things would be and then that's when the rubbish would probably kick off seeing as it's the last day and in their minds there would be no kickback onto them.