How will schools be able to go back in September?

kaymin

kandr10 wrote: »

I agree the lc was not handled very well. However they were making a decision on a future event based on the data they had available at the time. They didn’t know that case numbers would be what they are now. Perhaps they could’ve waited and cancelled if necessary closer to the time but that would’ve been potentially worse for the students involved - more time spent wasted on studying for an exam that wasn’t happening. I wonder how far into the planning process they got and whether it was the financial cost Involved in planning how to manage the exams within restrictions that stopped thEm going ahead? Or was it just that they weren’t bothered planning at all? It’d be nice to see more justification of the decision making.

But studying for an exam is not time wasted unless you think our educational system is that appalling.

kaymin

downthemiddle wrote: »

The members of the NPHET are as follows:

Dr Tony Holohan, chief medical officer at the Department of Health.

Prof Colm Bergin, infectious diseases consultant at St James’s Hospital and Professor of Medicine at Trinity College Dublin.

Paul Bolger, director of Department of Health resources division.

Dr Eibhlin Connolly, deputy chief medical officer at the Department of Health.

Tracey Conroy, assistant secretary in the acute hospitals division of the Department of Health.

Dr John Cuddihy, interim director of the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC).

Dr Cillian de Gascun, director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory in UCD.

Colm Desmond, assistant secretary for corporate legislation, mental health, drugs policy and food safety division in the Department of Health.


Dr Lorraine Doherty, national clinical director for health protection in the HPSC.

Dr Mary Favier, president of the Irish College of General Practitioners.


Dr Ronan Glynn, deputy chief medical officer in the Department of Health.

Fergal Goodman, assistant secretary in the primary care division in the Department of Health.

Dr Colm Henry, HSE chief clinical officer.

Dr Kevin Kelleher, HSE assistant national director of public health.

Marita Kinsella, director of the national patient safety office in the Department of Health.

David Leach, HSE deputy national director of communications.

Dr Kathleen Mac Lellan, assistant secretary in Department of Health social care division.

Dr Jeanette McCallion, Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA) medical assessor.

Tom McGuinness, assistant national director at HSE office of emergency planning.

Dr Siobhán Ní Bhrian, HSE lead for integrated care.

Prof Philip Nolan, chair of Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group and president of Maynooth University.

Kate O’Flaherty, head of health and wellbeing at Department of Health.

Dr Darina O’Flanagan, special adviser to NPHET at Department of Health.

Dr Siobhán O’Sullivan, chief bioethics officer at Department of Health.

Dr Michael Power, national clinical lead of HSE critical care programme and consultant in intensive care medicine at Beaumont Hospital.

Phelim Quinn, chief executive of Health Information and Quality Authority (Hiqa).

Dr Máirín Ryan, deputy chief executive and director of health technology assessment at Hiqa.

Dr Alan Smith, Department of Health deputy chief medical officer.

Dr Breda Smyth, HSE director of health and public health medicine.

David Walsh, HSE national director of community operations.

Deirdre Watters, head of communications at Department of Health.

Liam Woods, HSE national director of acute operations.

Lorraine Doherty, HPSC clinical director for health protection

These are the people advising the government. If there is any poster who thinks they are better able to issue advice please tell us why.

There are far too many on that committee for it to be effective.

kaymin

bettyoleary wrote: »

It reads from your thread that you are inciting people to allow children to ignore the Govt guidelines. Would you agree with this? You are also complicit in bullying teachers.For the few teachers that even post on here and bother arguing with you, I feel sorry for. You have absolutely no right to question any teacher on this site. Unfortunately, and if your not thick, you will understand that in every walk of life there are people who dont toe the line and this includes some teachers. But the majority of teachers, in my opinion are dedicated caring and very intelligent people who we should be grateful to. If it wasn't for them we wouldn't have scientists working on a vaccine

Leave them alone and look at yourself.

It's ironic that you accuse someone of being thick and make so many grammatical errors while doing so. And this is from a teacher! God help our children is all I have to say.

bettyoleary

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Not at all, but don't let that get in the way of your entitled triggered rant.

I have every right to give my opinion but I also know there's a difference between expressing an opinion and being downright rude.

You might want to show me where I incited people to flout rules or bullied teachers just in case I'm too thick or stupid.

You have every right to your opinion. You know exactly what you are doing. Leave the teachers alone.

kandr10

kaymin wrote: »

But studying for an exam is not time wasted unless you think our educational system is that appalling.

Ah last minute cramming would be a waste. The studying you do right be for an exam is not equal to the value of learning that’s achieved through research, writing, making mistakes, correcting, discussing etc that goes on in the years prior to the exam.

kaymin

bettyoleary wrote: »

You have every right to your opinion. You know exactly what you are doing. Leave the teachers alone.

What's with this poor teacher routine. You are not above questioning. We are not your students.

The best teachers, in my opinion, are those that encourage students to question things, encourage independent thought and not accept the status quo. It would appear you don't fall into that category.

downthemiddle

kaymin wrote: »

There are far too many on that committee for it to be effective.

Really? Do you know how the committee is structured, and how they function, or are you engaging in idle speculation?

s1ippy

trapp wrote: »

Not sure I have ever come across such an entitled and rude post.

Yeah I completely agree, I think the parents should continue to bully the teachers here and the teachers should just not engage with or look at the thread anymore.

It'll be hilarious, just four people who agree with each other still screaming into the void

kaymin

kandr10 wrote: »

Ah last minute cramming would be a waste. The studying you do right be for an exam is not equal to the value of learning that’s achieved through research, writing, making mistakes, correcting, discussing etc that goes on in the years prior to the exam.

Students learn in different ways. I only learnt something when I sat down and studied it myself in peace and quiet. Others learn more easily in a discussion / class room. Either way students have missed out on 3 or 4 months of school and many have not been studying over that time either because they reckoned the exams would be cancelled or postponed.

So there is knowledge they would have acquired that they will now never acquire. I suspect a significant junk of the syllabus won't have been properly covered.

RollieFingers

bettyoleary wrote: »

It reads from your thread that you are inciting people to allow children to ignore the Govt guidelines. Would you agree with this? You are also complicit in bullying teachers.For the few teachers that even post on here and bother arguing with you, I feel sorry for. You have absolutely no right to question any teacher on this site. Unfortunately, and if your not thick, you will understand that in every walk of life there are people who dont toe the line and this includes some teachers. But the majority of teachers, in my opinion are dedicated caring and very intelligent people who we should be grateful to. If it wasn't for them we wouldn't have scientists working on a vaccine

Leave them alone and look at yourself.

The irony.

kaymin

downthemiddle wrote: »

Really? Do you know how the committee is structured, and how they function, or are you engaging in idle speculation?

Idle speculation. How is it structured? How could so many intelligent people get it so wrong when Mr cervical cancer fiasco is leading it?

bettyoleary

kaymin wrote: »

What's with this poor teacher routine. You are not above questioning. We are not your students.

The best teachers, in my opinion, are those that encourage students to question things, encourage independent thought and not accept the status quo. It would appear you don't fall into that category.

I am not a teacher, I have never said I was but I am against people having a dig at teachers when they have done nothing wrong. I dont see any scare mongering from the teachers who post on here. Just educated people trying to make sense of the information available to the general public and trying to figure out how they can continue to do their best to teach. Its not easy for anybody and taking out frustration on teachers is not doing anyone any good. It wont change anything and it serves no purpose.

wirelessdude01

Round and round and round and round and........🀔

downthemiddle

kaymin wrote: »

Idle speculation. How is it structured? How could so many intelligent people get it so wrong when Mr cervical cancer fiasco is leading it?

So, basically, you have no idea what you are on about. You are being argumentative for the sake of it. Thanks for clearing that up.

kaymin

downthemiddle wrote: »

So, basically, you have no idea what you are on about. You are being argumentative for the sake of it. Thanks for clearing that up.

It would appear you don't either. You asked for opinions. I gave my opinion that there are too many people involved for it to be effective. Why not address this point?

downthemiddle

kaymin wrote: »

It would appear you don't either. You asked for opinions. I gave my opinion that there are too many people involved for it to be effective. Why not address this point?

This is what I said "If there is any poster who thinks they are better able to issue advice please tell us why".
You have offered nothing to suggest you are in a better position. That is the point.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

bettyoleary wrote: »

I am not a teacher

Well that's some good news at least, I'd hate to think that someone with that attitude would be tasked with educating children.

Jim Root

bettyoleary wrote: »

I don't know how may teachers have arts degrees? why are you asking me that? They have degrees and that is what is required to teach. What is obvious from this thread is that some posters have a problem with teachers and resent them being paid. Whatever these posters agendas are and they do have agendas or they wouldn't be posting, it dosent matter. The teachers are following the guidelines. They have never refused to teach. They continue to work and will be part of implementing guidelines in schools when they are made available.

They will have their holidays and if the guidelines are not issued prior to school holidays then they will need time in September to put the guidelines into place whatever they are. They wont be using their summer holidays to do this. No body knows the trajectory of Covid and no body knows what the situation will be in September. We all hope for the best. In my opinion parents need to be getting online for guidance on teaching from home. Ensuring their children abide by the Govt rules which I'm sure they will be happy to do if the reasons are explained to them. If not then discipline comes into it. Exactly what is required.

Would you be prepared to come back a little earlier from your summer holidays for the greater good?

kaymin

downthemiddle wrote: »

This is what I said "If there is any poster who thinks they are better able to issue advice please tell us why".
You have offered nothing to suggest you are in a better position. That is the point.

I think I am actually. I was watching in disbelief as flights arrived from Italy since 2 February without as much as a temperature check performed at the airport (check my post history for proof). As far as I know we still don't do temperature checks while they are done as routine across Asia.

There was gross incompetence from the start. We should have been at least as successful as New Zealand. Now we are going to other extreme. But this is getting off topic.

downthemiddle

kaymin wrote: »

I think I am actually. I was watching in disbelief as flights arrived from Italy since 2 February without as much as a temperature check performed at the airport (check my post history for proof). As far as I know we still don't do temperature checks while they are done as routine across Asia.

There was gross incompetence from the start. We should have been at least as successful as New Zealand. Now we are going to other extreme. But this is getting off topic.

So you think you are in a better position to advise the country than NPHET. Thanks for clarifying that.
Where did you gain your qualification in virology?

bettyoleary

Jim Root wrote: »

Would you be prepared to come back a little earlier from your summer holidays for the greater good?

Im not a teacher, I am a nurse and have been doing my bit for the greater good. If I was a teacher I would be doing my best to teach in this difficult situation to the best of my ability. That's what I believe teachers are doing.

kaymin

downthemiddle wrote: »

So you think you are in a better position to advise the country than NPHET. Thanks for clarifying that.
Where did you gain your qualification in virology?

In February little was known about the virus so a degree in virology would have been little help at that time. Stopping the virus getting into the country would have been optimal. Check out Slovakia if you want an example of what could have been achieved. And this is a country that borders many countries.

Why do you place nphet in such high esteem when they ignored the fears and concerns of Tadhg Daly which ultimately came to pass?

downthemiddle

kaymin wrote: »

In February little was known about the virus so a degree in virology would have been little help at that time. Stopping the virus getting into the country would have been optimal. Check out Slovakia if you want an example of what could have been achieved. And this is a country that borders many countries.

Why do you place nphet in such high esteem when they ignored the fears and concerns of Tadhg Daly which ultimately came to pass?

You are still not addressing the point. "If there is any poster who thinks they are better able to issue advice please tell us why". Why do you, specifically, feel you are in a better position to offer advice.

kaymin

downthemiddle wrote: »

You are still not addressing the point. "If there is any poster who thinks they are better able to issue advice please tell us why". Why do you, specifically, feel you are in a better position to offer advice.

Maybe I just have more cop-on than Nphet combined.

If flights from Italy were stopped, passengers screened, traced etc from early February would that not have reduced or eliminated the uncontrolled spread of the virus? If yes, then compare this to what I was saying on the 2 February.

And in the interests of getting back on topic, interesting letters to the Irish times:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/government-needs-to-govern-1.4266045?mode=amp#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s

Sir, – Schools around Europe are reopening but here we are told that ours may not reopen in September, and even then probably for less than 50 per cent of the pupils on any given day.

Businesses in the hospitality sector due to reopen are about to announce mass layoffs due to the imposition of the two-metre rule by the National Public Health Emergency Team, when the World Health Organisation advice is one metre.

A glance at pre-pandemic newspaper coverage of the Department of Health and the HSE would show that they were regarded as poorly run organisations, incapable of managing their staff and budgets or change and reform.

In the rush to praise, and rightfully so, the frontline workers in the HSE, the fact that the organisation as a whole is dysfunctional and poorly managed has been forgotten. It is these same people that are now in charge of the whole economy as our Government treats every diktat from them as being something akin to an infallible pronouncement.

It is time for the Government to govern. – Yours, etc,

khalessi

trapp wrote: »

You spent the last few weeks objecting and stoking fear my friend.

Glad to see you have changed your mind.

Also internet teaching is not teaching.

The vast majority of students in disadvantaged areas have not been learning so it is not 'fine'

For such a short post so much incorrect. Let me clarify for you, I never have stoked anything I only seek to inform. I am not and never will be your friend. I also have never changed my mind I always said schools would reopen in September 2020, unlike yourself who spent ages scaremongering about January or September 2021 reopenings without evidence, to the extent a mod had to ask you to stop and felt at the time it was necessary to ban you from posting again on the thread if I recall. It seems your views play to the gallery of opinion and no one is allowed disagree with you.

Internet teaching is teaching if it is done correctly, it is the basis of many courses and can be done succesfullly with primary school. It is a pity you didnt get to witness it but you still might have a chance in September depending on how they plan to reopen the schools. No point discussing that until we see the plans put forward in 2 weeks time from McHugh.

What I have asked for, which I still dont understand is wrong, is improved hygiene in our schools, the schools your children attend and you berate me for this and call it scareongering! Bizarre!!! I see no problem asking for improved cleaning and hygiene and ppe if it is required.

downthemiddle

kaymin wrote: »

Maybe I just have more cop-on than Nphet combined.

If flights from Italy were stopped, passengers screened, traced etc from early February would that not have reduced or eliminated the uncontrolled spread of the virus? If yes, then compare this to what I was saying on the 2 February.

So despite admitting that you are engaging in idle speculation, you feel you have more cop on than NPHET. I'm astonished Simon Harris doesn't have a direct hotline to you.

kaymin

downthemiddle wrote: »

So despite admitting that you are engaging in idle speculation, you feel you have more cop on than NPHET. I'm astonished Simon Harris doesn't have a direct hotline to you.

Ah yes, Simon Harris. The failed journalist student. Have a read of the letter to the Irish times in my post above. It could just as easily been addressed to you given your hero worship of nphet.

downthemiddle

kaymin wrote: »

Ah yes, Simon Harris. The failed journalist student. Have a read of the letter to the Irish times in my post above. It could just as easily been addressed to you given your hero worship of nphet.

Yet again you are twisting the original point. I have not offered an opinion on NPHET. I simply asked "If there is any poster who thinks they are better able to issue advice please tell us why ".
Your responses have included

kaymin wrote: »

There are far too many on that committee for it to be effective.

kaymin wrote: »

Idle speculation.

kaymin wrote: »

Maybe I just have more cop-on than Nphet combined.
,

as well as claiming you think you are in a better position to advise the government than NPHET.
Forgive me if I feel you might be slightly overestimating your own ability.

kaymin

downthemiddle wrote: »

Yet again you are twisting the original point. I have not offered an opinion on NPHET. I simply asked "If there is any poster who thinks they are better able to issue advice please tell us why ".
Your responses have included



as well as claiming you think you are in a better position to advise the government than NPHET.
Forgive me if I feel you might be slightly overestimating your own ability.

It's pointless continuing a discussion with you. Did Nphet, HSE the government act too slowly or not from early February? Why did they ignore the issues raised with them regarding the nursing homes until it was too late? Why are they only now recommending wearing face masks when the rest of the world has been doing it for months? Frankly, the appropriate response to these issues is plain to see - we had the examples of multiple success stories in Asia to copy from. So yes, a little cop-on would have gone a long way.

Why are you ignoring these questions I've raised with you and instead resort to snide remarks about hotlines from Simon Harris.

You think Nphet is the best we have - at least you are unwilling to take on any challenge to their superiority. You're entitled to your opinion and it seems you aren't for budging. So end of discussion.

downthemiddle

kaymin wrote: »

It's pointless continuing a discussion with you. Did Nphet, HSE the government act too slowly or not from early February? Why did they ignore the issues raised with them regarding the nursing homes until it was too late? Why are they only now recommending wearing face masks when the rest of the world has been doing it for months? Frankly, the appropriate response to these issues is plain to see - we had the examples of multiple success stories in Asia to copy from. So yes, a little cop-on would have gone a long way.

Why are you ignoring these questions I've raised with you and instead resort to snide remarks about hotlines from Simon Harris.

You think Nphet is the best we have - at least you are unwilling to take on any challenge to their superiority. You're entitled to your opinion and it seems you aren't for budging. So end of discussion.

I do think NPHET is the best we have. Nobody has proposed a superior alternative, despite your opinion of your own ability. They have, clearly, made mistakes along the way but they are also getting a lot more right than wrong. It is easy to criticise with hindsight.
Unlike you I am not arrogant enough to think I know better than them. I see the suppression of the virus in the community and believe their actions achieved that. I understand the need for caution knowing that a continuation of these trends will offer us a better opportunity to reopen schools fully in September. If we ignore their advice, in the meantime, numbers will rise again and schools will become an issue again.
A little more patience will lead to much greater gain in the long term.