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How much is this all going to cost and who will pay for it ?

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    #212
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    I'll email the minister and ask him is there any chance that we can simply skip over the endless dreadful aftermath that awaits and just go back to the way things were. If we all make a concerted effort to go mad partying and spending during what's left of the summer we can skip over the recession that awaits.

    Whatever bag of misery the global economy is ready to punish us with we'll make up for it by spending locally. Hopefully this time the govt will have the cojones to tell d'EU to "shove it" with whatever bottomless pit they are readying for us to fill for the next few decades to pay for the Corona.

    Look we the people are in charge here, if we all decide we won't pay the debt and we won't have the recession there won't be one. We should encourage other countries to do the same. Bad enough to have 1000s dieing without a protracted period of economic misery and high tax following it.

    I'm still blue in the face from the last recession, bondholders this, property tax that, bailout the next thing. They can fcuk right off if they think I'm putting up with another decade or more of that nonsense


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    #213
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    If we all make a concerted effort to go mad partying and spending during what's left of the summer we can skip over the recession that awaits.

    Bizarrely, that's exactly the approach that's needed.


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    #214
    Fred Cryton
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Varadkar has pledged no income tax increases to fund this, which means he's planning to introduce another tax or increase USC.

    How much is this all expected to cost by the end and more importantly who will be hit to pay for it and how ?


    The same people who pay for everything in this country - the narrow band of higher rate taxpayers (around 20% of the population).


    The Shinners certainly won't be paying for anything. That's not what they do. They want everything for nothing and scream at you until they get it.


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    #215
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    The best thing to do is just plough on and don't let the system dictate your happiness and contentment, it sounds hippy dippy and sunshine lollipops and rainbows.
    But fck it, do what's in front of us.
    There's more of us than them.
    They're nothing without us, nothing.

    All that glitters ain't gold, I'll never validate my contentment and happiness on the system.

    I'm more right than left, probably a moderate as the left need the right to get their free house's welfare and entitlements.
    While the right sacrifices their brains,hard work ethics to pay for the left behinders...

    Then the moderate try to get by with what they need and have...



    Yin and Yang...


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    #216
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    The same people who always pay. We will be bailing ourselves out.


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    #217
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,740 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    They could bring in a once off tax on savings/shares/bonds above a certain level say 10k, say 10-15%?


    They say that Irish savings are 200-300. B Could cover it.


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    #218
    FVP3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    Geuze wrote: »
    Savers, credit unions, pension funds, etc.

    Banks, Financial Institutions, the super rich, and pension funds in the main.


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    #219
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,073 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    tom1ie wrote: »
    No I understand that. That’s grand. But where has this 500bn come from.
    Is it liquified assets like another poster has said or is it that the ecb is now just printing more and more money.
    If so does that not just devalue the euro?

    Good question.

    I can give you some answers.

    (1) The ESM borrows on financial markets.

    https://www.esm.europa.eu/investors/esm/esm-bonds

    So all the usual investors buy its bonds - banks, credit unions, life assurers, pension funds, etc.


    (2) the EIB is a bank.

    https://www.eib.org/en/index.htm

    It doesn't seem to raise deposits?

    It does issue bonds, so the same answer as the ESM.


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    #220
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,073 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    tom1ie wrote: »
    No I understand that. That’s grand. But where has this 500bn come from.
    Is it liquified assets like another poster has said or is it that the ecb is now just printing more and more money.
    If so does that not just devalue the euro?


    The ESM and EIB lending are nothing directly to do with the ECB.


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    #221
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,073 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    saabsaab wrote: »
    They could bring in a once off tax on savings/shares/bonds above a certain level say 10k, say 10-15%?


    They say that Irish savings are 200-300. B Could cover it.

    Expropriation?

    A one-off wealth tax?

    Irish household deposits are more like 100-120bn, although obviously all financial assets are worth more.


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    #222
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,740 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Geuze wrote: »
    Expropriation?

    A one-off wealth tax?

    Irish household deposits are more like 100-120bn, although obviously all financial assets are worth more.


    Yes. They say it is a war so everything is on the table. Would also encourage more spend.


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    #223
    Fred Cryton
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Yes. They say it is a war so everything is on the table.


    Right, indeed. So i assume you're fine with we the people taking ownership of your home or car or bicycle or anything else you own. After all, it's a war and we need to take your wealth.


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    #224
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    We do have 14+ Billion of Apple's Tax Money resting in our account. Personally I would use that to pay for majority of it.


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    #225
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,740 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Fred Cryton wrote: »
    Right, indeed. So i assume you're fine with we the people taking ownership of your home or car or bicycle or anything else you own. After all, it's a war and we need to take your wealth.


    If our homes cars and bicycles are taken, we would have to be rehoused, transported somehow.


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    #226
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,740 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    The Muppet wrote: »
    We do have 14+ Billion of Apple's Tax Money resting in our account. Personally I would use that to pay for majority of it.


    Is that cleared yet? What is the situation with that in the courts now?


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    #227
    Dorakman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭Dorakman


    The Muppet wrote: »
    We do have 14+ Billion of Apple's Tax Money resting in our account. Personally I would use that to pay for majority of it.

    You’re aptly named muppet. That money is in escrow, and not ours. Stop peddling lies.


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    #228
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    jrosen wrote: »
    The same people who always pay. We will be bailing ourselves out.

    I'm not so sure this time. They can't leverage us for anything else. This time the rich take the hit with inflation.


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    #229
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Dorakman wrote: »
    You’re aptly named muppet. That money is in escrow, and not ours. Stop peddling lies.

    Never heard that before , so original. We could always drop our appeal and admit we were giving the tax breaks.


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    #230
    Dorakman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭Dorakman


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Never heard that before , so original. We could always drop our appeal and admit we were giving the tax breaks.

    Let’s say we do, and let’s say Apple for some bizarre reason don’t appeal on any level, the money still doesn’t belong to us. We’re being used as grubby tax collectors by the EU. What’s so hard to understand about that?


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    #231
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Dorakman wrote: »
    Let’s say we do, and let’s say Apple for some bizarre reason don’t appeal on any level, the money still doesn’t belong to us. We’re being used as grubby tax collectors by the EU. What’s so hard to understand about that?

    where did you get the impression i had difficulty understanding you?

    Personally Id have been no problem with that scenario, after all its tax they should have been paying since they opened shop here. whats so hard to understand about that?


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    #232
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,196 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    2u2me wrote: »
    I'm not so sure this time. They can't leverage us for anything else. This time the rich take the hit with inflation.

    The tax increases last time around disproportionately hot higher earners.


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    #233
    Dorakman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭Dorakman


    The Muppet wrote: »
    We do have 14+ Billion of Apple's Tax Money resting in our account. Personally I would use that to pay for majority of it.
    The Muppet wrote: »
    where did you get the impression i had difficulty understanding you?

    Personally Id have been no problem with that scenario, after all its tax they should have been paying since they opened shop here. whats so hard to understand about that?

    You literally said a few comments back that the money is resting in “our account” and that you’d use that to pay for the current crisis, which demonstrates a general lack of understanding about the entire case, even on a basic level.


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    #234
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    noodler wrote: »
    The tax increases last time around disproportionately hot higher earners.

    he means the rich that barely pay any tax. Not the high earners here on a pittance in the greater scheme of things, who are taken for a ride here...


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    #235
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Dorakman wrote: »
    You literally said a few comments back that the money is resting in “our account” and that you’d use that to pay for the current crisis, which demonstrates a general lack of understanding about the entire case, even on a basic level.

    Enlighten me.


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    #236
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,196 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    he means the rich that barely pay any tax. Not the high earners here on a pittance in the greater scheme of things, who are taken for a ride here...

    Could you elaborate?

    Everyone always seems to think there is magic money available from someone who earns more than them


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    #237
    Dorakman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭Dorakman


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Enlighten me.

    Sorry, I’m not open to new challenges.


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    #238
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Dorakman wrote: »
    Sorry, I’m not open to new challenges.

    Cheers, that was easy.

    i would also revoke Leos promise to allow tax exiles stuck here in the current crisis off the hook. That could be worth another few billion.


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    #239
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    noodler wrote: »
    Could you elaborate?

    Everyone always seems to think there is magic money available from someone who earns more than them

    We have spent the last few decades importing cars, buying Chinese goods, borrowing foreign money. Yes we export a few pound of butter and have a few foreign mega corps that leave a bit more money in this country than they take out but we have become ferociously lazy. Nobody wants to make anything or fix anything anymore. Let's just dawdle in our office for another day and pay outsiders to do the real work, of course we are low on money if we carry on like this


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    #240
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Varadkar has pledged no income tax increases to fund this, which means he's planning to introduce another tax or increase USC.

    How much is this all expected to cost by the end and more importantly who will be hit to pay for it and how ?

    The private sector pays, as always.The public sector, which apparently its now practically illegal to criticise, benefits.


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    #241
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    noodler wrote: »
    Could you elaborate?

    Everyone always seems to think there is magic money available from someone who earns more than them

    I definitely meant the super rich. The type that appeard in the Panama papers and made a fortune from the last recession.

    We were ourselves a tax haven for the massive corporations, they set up shop here to avoid paying higher taxes elsewhere.
    A race to the bottom of governments looking to undercut each other as MNCs get disgustingly rich.


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