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How much is this all going to cost and who will pay for it ?

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    #242
    Dorakman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭Dorakman


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Cheers, that was easy.

    i would also revoke Leos promise to allow tax exiles stuck here in the current crisis off the hook. That could be worth another few billion.

    So you want to tax people who aren’t residents in the country to pay for this?


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    #243
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Dorakman wrote: »
    So you want to tax people who aren’t residents in the country to pay for this?

    Now who's having difficulty with their comprehension?


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    #244
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,346 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    The private sector pays, as always.The public sector, which apparently its now practically illegal to criticise, benefits.

    Most Public Sector workers took significant pay cuts and changes to work practices
    Its not about public v private sectors


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    #245
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,740 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    The private sector pays, as always.The public sector, which apparently its now practically illegal to criticise, benefits.


    Nonsense. Private sector banks had a large part in what caused the last recession.


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    #246
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    The popcorn's out... this is going to be the cart before the horse, or the horse before the cart...

    It's looking good


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    #247
    Dorakman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 83 ✭✭Dorakman


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Now who's having difficulty with their comprehension?

    You are. You’re intentionally misrepresenting an exemption designed to limit double taxation. I had to apply for a similar exemption in 2016 as I was contracting onsite in Scotland.


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    #248
    na1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭na1


    noodler wrote: »
    Could you elaborate?

    Everyone always seems to think there is magic money available from someone who earns more than them

    For example most of TV presenters on 200+k a year, are officially self employed, and not paying income tax on 200+k as an employee. They pay themselves a small 'wage' as a company directors. The rest of the money goes to their Ltd bank account


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    #249
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Cheers, that was easy.

    i would also revoke Leos promise to allow tax exiles stuck here in the current crisis off the hook. That could be worth another few billion.
    Dorakman wrote: »
    You are. You’re intentionally misrepresenting an exemption designed to limit double taxation. I had to apply for a similar exemption in 2016 as I was contracting onsite in Scotland.

    Am I ?


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    #250
    The Muppet
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    The Muppet wrote: »
    Cheers, that was easy.

    i would also revoke Leos promise to allow tax exiles stuck here in the current crisis off the hook. That could be worth another few billion.
    Dorakman wrote: »
    You are. You’re intentionally misrepresenting an exemption designed to limit double taxation. I had to apply for a similar exemption in 2016 as I was contracting onsite in Scotland.

    Am I ?


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    #251
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,212 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    We have spent the last few decades importing cars, buying Chinese goods, borrowing foreign money. Yes we export a few pound of butter and have a few foreign mega corps that leave a bit more money in this country than they take out but we have become ferociously lazy. Nobody wants to make anything or fix anything anymore. Let's just dawdle in our office for another day and pay outsiders to do the real work, of course we are low on money if we carry on like this

    Right.


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    #252
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,212 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    na1 wrote: »
    For example most of TV presenters on 200+k a year, are officially self employed, and not paying income tax on 200+k as an employee. They pay themselves a small 'wage' as a company directors. The rest of the money goes to their Ltd bank account

    Leaving aside the validity of the point, that's probably about a million.

    Only 20bn to go.


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    #253
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    na1 wrote: »
    For example most of TV presenters on 200+k a year, are officially self employed, and not paying income tax on 200+k as an employee. They pay themselves a small 'wage' as a company directors. The rest of the money goes to their Ltd bank account

    Someone like Wyann Tubwidy...

    I'd love to hear him say beefar grifter...
    don't know why, he just has an interesting voice.

    Think about Ryan saying beefar grifter over and over...and over until your head hears those two words every time he opens his mouth..

    BEFARRGRIFTER


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    #254
    na1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭na1


    noodler wrote: »
    Leaving aside the validity of the point, that's probably about a million.
    Only 20bn to go.

    If you're talking about the Irish billionaires with annual income from all the assets much bigger than a million. Leaving aside the legal issues, believe me they also don't pay the taxman even close to the ~52% on their income, like the would pay as an employee on 1 million salary.


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    #255
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    na1 wrote: »
    For example most of TV presenters on 200+k a year, are officially self employed, and not paying income tax on 200+k as an employee. They pay themselves a small 'wage' as a company directors. The rest of the money goes to their Ltd bank account

    This. Spot on. They pay fcuk all tax and are basically public servants.

    All income, earned and unearned should be taxed at the same rate. Give a small tax free allowance or credit that allows, for example, the first €15k to be tax free and then everything above that is taxed at let's say, 25%. Rich, poor, young and old, paye or welfare recipient. Every taxable natural person pays at the same rate. This way, there is an incentive to progress and work to one's potential.


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    #256
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    na1 wrote: »
    For example most of TV presenters on 200+k a year, are officially self employed, and not paying income tax on 200+k as an employee. They pay themselves a small 'wage' as a company directors. The rest of the money goes to their Ltd bank account

    That's not remotely how it works unless the TV presenter has a spectacularly crap accountant.

    Your theory would mean the Limited company pays, then the director pays again at whatever point the money is eventually taken out of the company.

    Regardless, in terms of funding required to recover from Coronavirus taxation of TV presenters would be right up there with checking the back of the sofas in Leinster house for overall economic impact.


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    #257
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    Graham wrote: »
    That's not remotely how it works unless the TV presenter has a spectacularly crap accountant.

    Your theory would mean the Limited company pays, then the director pays again at whatever point the money is eventually taken out of the company.

    If the director is an employee of the ltd company is an employee then the first €20k is basically tax free like other paye employees.
    So pay your €20k.
    Put the rest through the corporate entity. You will get taxed at around 12.5% less allowable deductions.


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    #258
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    Put the rest through the corporate entity. You will get taxed at around 12.5% less allowable deductions.

    Then the director pays full tax on the amount whenever they take it out of the company.

    Your cunning plan has just cost an additional 12.5%


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    #259
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    The tax discussion is a waste of time - when you are entering deflation, you pull back taxes, not increase them - in order to help stimulate demand. You simultaneously pull back taxes and increase spending.

    The best way to reverse the redistribution of wealth to the powerful minority, is simply to have a government that's willing to spend big enough to prop up GDP, and ensure the average joe still has work and good supports, in times of economic crisis.


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    #260
    na1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭na1


    Graham wrote: »
    That's not remotely how it works unless the TV presenter has a spectacularly crap accountant.

    Your theory would mean the Limited company pays, then the director pays again at whatever point the money is eventually taken out of the company.
    This is exactly how the tax evasion Ltds are working:
    The director gets a small salary and pays the personal income tax on it.
    Some of the money can be written off for 'expenses'
    The rest of the money is charged a corporation tax at 12.5% and stays on the company business account, until liquidation.
    They also can employ relatives and 'pay' them some small rate salary for doing nothing.

    On the Liquidation they have to pay CAT, but there ways to avoid/minimise this.


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    #261
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    Graham wrote: »
    Then the director pays full tax on the amount whenever they take it out of the company.


    But surely the assets on the balance sheet of the company aren't subject to income tax. And when an Irish company pays another Irish company a dividend, isn't that tax free? Pension contributions are also very tax efficient. Directors loans will incur BIK but the rate is much lower than income tax rates.


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    #262
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,927 ✭✭✭threeball


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    If the director is an employee of the ltd company is an employee then the first €20k is basically tax free like other paye employees.
    So pay your €20k.
    Put the rest through the corporate entity. You will get taxed at around 12.5% less allowable deductions.

    Then taxed again when you try to take any out down the road. The lads above haven't a fcukin notion how companies work or how company directors are the most taxed people in the country. Pay the highest prsi too with little to no benefit. But shur they're only giving you a job, the greedy cnuts.


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    #263
    pure.conya
    Registered Users Posts: 904 ✭✭✭pure.conya


    2u2me wrote: »
    I definitely meant the super rich. The type that appeard in the Panama papers and made a fortune from the last recession.

    We were ourselves a tax haven for the massive corporations, they set up shop here to avoid paying higher taxes elsewhere.
    A race to the bottom of governments looking to undercut each other as MNCs get disgustingly rich.

    This is what happens if you go after the cabal that featured in the panama papers

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/17/murdered-panama-papers-journalist-son-malta-crooks-daphne-caruana-galizia


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    #264
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,927 ✭✭✭threeball


    na1 wrote: »
    This is exactly how the tax evasion Ltds are working:
    The director gets a small salary and pays the personal income tax on it.
    Some of the money can be written off for 'expenses'
    The rest of the money is charged a corporation tax at 12.5% and stays on the company business account, until liquidation.
    They also can employ relatives and 'pay' them some small rate salary for doing nothing.

    On the Liquidation they have to pay CAT, but there ways to avoid/minimise this.

    Try writing off expenses that aren't expenses and see how you fare when audited. Revenue will tear you a new one. You should try running a company and see how you go besides waffling on boards.


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    #265
    pure.conya
    Registered Users Posts: 904 ✭✭✭pure.conya


    Dorakman wrote: »
    So you want to tax people who aren’t residents in the country to pay for this?

    If they want to keep their Irish passports then they can pay their taxes, if not then hand them over and fúck right off


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    #266
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    noodler wrote: »
    Could you elaborate?

    Everyone always seems to think there is magic money available from someone who earns more than them

    People on 80k plus here or 100k whatever, being bent over backwards , what do they get for their taxes? **** transport, Rip off child care , Ripoff health care, insurance, rip off housing , law and order a farce . Bent over backwards to pay a large amount towards the wasters here that every party covets!


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    #267
    na1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭na1


    threeball wrote: »
    Then taxed again when you try to take any out down the road. The lads above haven't a fcukin notion how companies work or how company directors are the most taxed people in the country. Pay the highest prsi too with little to no benefit. But shur they're only giving you a job, the greedy cnuts.
    Are you talking about real company directors (with 100-s of employees), or a 'company directors' of the Ltd with no staff?
    I'm talking about the second case. They never pay themselves the salary that event close the company income. Guess why?


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    #268
    pure.conya
    Registered Users Posts: 904 ✭✭✭pure.conya


    na1 wrote: »
    If you're talking about the Irish billionaires with annual income from all the assets much bigger than a million. Leaving aside the legal issues, believe me they also don't pay the taxman even close to the ~52% on their income, like the would pay as an employee on 1 million salary.

    Paye earners pay more tax than some of the richest in the country


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    #269
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,212 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    People on 80k plus here or 100k whatever, being bent over backwards , what do they get for their taxes? **** transport, Rip off child care , Ripoff health care, insurance, rip off housing , law and order a farce . Bent over backwards to pay a large amount towards the wasters here that every party covets!

    Was there an answer to the question in there somewhere?


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    #270
    na1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭na1


    threeball wrote: »
    Try writing off expenses that aren't expenses and see how you fare when audited. Revenue will tear you a new one. You should try running a company and see how you go besides waffling on boards.

    I did. You can expense many things that ordinary employee couldn't. Including house bills and travel expenses


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    #271
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,927 ✭✭✭threeball


    na1 wrote: »
    Are you talking about real company directors (with 100-s of employees), or a 'company directors' of the Ltd with no staff?
    I'm talking about the second case. They never pay themselves the salary that event close the company income. Guess why?

    Regardless they will still get taxed at income rates dependant on their salary that year so they pay 12.5% going in and the relevant tax rate getting it out.


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