Anyone hazard a guess for when the gyms will re-open

caviardreams

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I prob can't use them now. I would say after he 18th i can though.

I wouldn't say so - they are potentially a high contact surface so a no-no. It would be pretty selfish to use it without fully cleaning it afterwards, including all bars etc. imo

Black Sheep

Cill94 wrote: »

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I would disagree with this last part. Many people will be unable to afford the financial burden of healthcare bills from a chronic disease, making more cost-effective and preventive measures like exercise a much more appealing option.

For example, the last recession period of 2008 through to the 2010s saw a huge growth in the fitness industry, with CrossFit in particular becoming very popular.

That's an interesting perspective. I am pretty sure that when a recession hits then all discretionary income takes a hit. Gym memberships, eating out, going to the cinema, weekend breaks and whatnot. But I am not an economist and don't even play one on TV, so I could be wrong.

If the fitness industry did not stumble during the last recession but in fact grew then I could stand corrected! Any links where I could read about it?

Whether I'm right or wrong about the way gyms perform in recessions, I guess it's only one of two big issues... The other being what portion of gym goers will return when restrictions are lifted. Even if it is a minority who adopt a conservative approach and stay away, and even if they 'only' do it for 1-2 years, then that's a big hit.

Relevant article here with some comments from UK chains. The comments about freezing memberships when they starting haemorrhaging memberships in March are interesting. There's also an estimate of 1 in 5 memberships falling, plans for expansion shelved etc. I guess broadly what I would have thought, to be honest.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/16/how-uk-gyms-can-survive-post-coronavirus-lockdown-health-warning-coronavirus

And Ben Dunne's business take on it here...

‘Some people will do things online, some people will exercise at home. And I think where there is good social distancing, people will want to work out in a gym or go to the gym.

‘People will not be interested, for the foreseeable future, in using facilities if there’s somebody very close by them.

‘In my opinion, people will not go into gyms that are packed, will not be going to pubs that are packed. There’s got to be a change in people’s behavior.’

https://extra.ie/2020/05/10/news/irish-news/interview-ben-dunne-gym-future

Jim Root

I don’t think I’ll ever set foot in my local Ben Dunne gym again. It was hardly a clean place at the best of times. Wish I hadn’t renewed in January.

Alf Veedersane

Black Sheep wrote: »

That's an interesting perspective. I am pretty sure that when a recession hits then all discretionary income takes a hit. Gym memberships, eating out, going to the cinema, weekend breaks and whatnot. But I am not an economist and don't even play one on TV, so I could be wrong.

If the fitness industry did not stumble during the last recession but in fact grew then I could stand corrected! Any links where I could read about it?

Must be said that this time it is a double whammy problem either way: There will be a recession, and even if the response is stimulus based this time, there will less spending money out there for businesses to compete for. And at least a portion of the public will be risk averse in terms of going back to gyms until things settle down on the Covid front (And yes, they could be waiting a while...).

Relevant article here with some comments from UK chains. The comments about freezing memberships when they starting haemorrhaging memberships in March are interesting. There's also an estimate of 1 in 5 memberships falling, plans for expansion shelved etc. I guess broadly what I would have thought, to be honest.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/16/how-uk-gyms-can-survive-post-coronavirus-lockdown-health-warning-coronavirus

I do think memberships went down in the recession. Maybe 15% or thereabouts but I may have misremembered that. But there was a surge in running groups and that kind of malarkey. So maybe the level of impact depends on what people go to the gym for. If its strength training, they're more likely to continue.

The rolling monthly contracts in the like of Flyefit and Ben Dunne may not have been as prevalent in the last recession and might make people less inclined to drop it than they would have been when it came to renewing an annual membership.

I think people's mindset around COVID-19, risk of infection etc may well be a lot different in 12 weeks and there may be less fear/anxiety around potential risk.

brianblaze

I think the larger places like Flyefit and Ben Dunnes places will have to stay closed longer to accommodate social distancing but smaller powerlifting style gyms (like mine!) can probably reopen with a limit on people in at a time. So an online time booking thing might make the most sense there. I'm okay with that anyway

DM_7

brianblaze wrote: »

I think the larger places like Flyefit and Ben Dunnes places will have to stay closed longer to accommodate social distancing but smaller powerlifting style gyms (like mine!) can probably reopen with a limit on people in at a time. So an online time booking thing might make the most sense there. I'm okay with that anyway

Would a flyefit not be very well placed to bring in online booking and when they had 24hr openings? Just keep the changing rooms closed.


In general talk re gyms I think people can easily bring there own wipes and or sprays with them to wipe down.

I think a large amount of people would not have stopped going to the gym at all only they closed. They closed to slow down spread of the virus, not necessarily to protect the people who may catch it in the gym but those they may pass it onto. Now with the level of social distancing and cleaning people are used to it should be a lot safer to open them as planned in the later phases.

People who are vulnerable or live in close contact with vulnerable people will stay away from such places for a good time beyond that.

The financial recovery is probably a bigger issue for gyms than the number of people who would look to go there (especially the far side of summer when weather deteriorates and even more will want to get back),.

caviardreams

I was thinking the likes of flyefit etc. might introduce a pay per visit fee on top of existing membership fees (to cover extra cleaning and resourcing and also to limit numbers) say €3-5 per visit - it would dissuade people going 6-7 days per week, and most would probably try and make do with 2-3 sessions per week, reducing numbers.

It would also work with the online booking type system DM 7 suggests but would stop people booking lots of slots in case they wanted them but not turning up (a real risk - what would stop you booking a slot every day but then deciding you can't be bothered going) - if they had to pay for each slot it would stop this. I think if numbers are gong to be reduced members would not have too much of an issue with fees going up a bit, and extra cleaning costs have to be covered too.

I completely agree that some people would bring their own wipes and clean as they go etc. but honestly a good % of people in a big commercial gym wouldn't. I saw a guy at one of the outdoor gyms the other day (even though there are signs saying not to use it)- no bag with him or anything, all he had was himself, and no wipes etc. working from one machine to the next in a circuit.

Alf Veedersane

caviardreams wrote: »

I was thinking the likes of flyefit etc. might introduce a pay per visit fee on top of existing membership fees (to cover extra cleaning and resourcing and also to limit numbers) say €3-5 per visit - it would dissuade people going 6-7 days per week, and most would probably try and make do with 2-3 sessions per week, reducing numbers.

It would also work with the online booking type system DM 7 suggests but would stop people booking lots of slots in case they wanted them but not turning up (a real risk - what would stop you booking a slot every day but then deciding you can't be bothered going) - if they had to pay for each slot it would stop this. I think if numbers are gong to be reduced members would not have too much of an issue with fees going up a bit, and extra cleaning costs have to be covered too.

I completely agree that some people would bring their own wipes and clean as they go etc. but honestly a good % of people in a big commercial gym wouldn't. I saw a guy at one of the outdoor gyms the other day (even though there are signs saying not to use it)- no bag with him or anything, all he had was himself, and no wipes etc. working from one machine to the next in a circuit.

Where gyms are charging for classes, what they should do isn't necessarily charge per visit but charge per visit but is refunded when they go. That would stop people block booking because they are refunded when they go but pay when they don't. And set it at €10+. Where you need people to turn up, if you don't put a price on that, it won't go well for you. However, if classes are only open to paid up members, it won't really matter to them if they people book and don't turn up. Aren't classes capped anyway.

Realistically, they're not going to get staff to wipe down everything. The most sensible solution (purely from a business and perception perspective) would be to facilitate people doing that themselves. Sanitiser etc provided. Might be a cost associated with that but that's ok.

ILoveYourVibes

Its August 10th officially. However I would expect it to be pushed back etc. That's only if everything goes perfectly and we have no spikes.

Obv some gyms might not open again particularly the smaller ones or places that cater to a younger market like flyefit.

Everything will have to be cleaned ..people will have to wear masks etc and wipe things down etc. Shower at home. But people will be understanding.
But gyms couldn't trust clients to wipe things down.

You might have to book machines etc in a timetable so they can be cleaned after by a member of staff.

caviardreams

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its August 10th officially. However I would expect it to be pushed back etc. That's only if everything goes perfectly and we have no spikes.

Obv some gyms might not open again particularly the smaller ones or places that cater to a younger market like flyefit.

Everything will have to be cleaned ..people will have to wear masks etc and wipe things down etc. Shower at home. But people will be understanding.
But gyms couldn't trust clients to wipe things down.

You might have to book machines etc in a timetable so they can be cleaned after by a member of staff.

I just don't think that would be financially viable for commercial gyms - the smaller PT-based models with higher margins could clean between sessions but the likes of booking an individual machine and a staff member cleaning it after is not realistic imo. As Alf says, cleaning will have to be at an individual level - there is personal responsibility to these things, but making it easier for people to comply will help a lot. What you might also get is staff patrolling the floor reminding people to clean up every so often or where they see somebody taking the p***, or having more of a visible presence so members feel "obliged" to clean more. The likes of flyefit run financially by packing in people at low prices, so their business model will need tweaking if they are to make it work.

Alf Veedersane

caviardreams wrote: »

I just don't think that would be financially viable for commercial gyms - the smaller PT-based models with higher margins could clean between sessions but the likes of booking an individual machine and a staff member cleaning it after is not realistic imo. As Alf says, cleaning will have to be at an individual level - there is personal responsibility to these things, but making it easier for people to comply will help a lot. What you might also get is staff patrolling the floor reminding people to clean up every so often or where they see somebody taking the p***, or having more of a visible presence so members feel "obliged" to clean more. The likes of flyefit run financially by packing in people at low prices, so their business model will need tweaking if they are to make it work.

Yup. Its not realistic that the sole responsibility for cleaning equipment is with the gym. By extension, they would have to clean every piece of equipment after someone uses it and before someone else does. Not realistic. Signs to remind people to clean equipment before they use it to protect themselves would also help more than signs to clean after to protect others.

Sheep Shagger

FitzShane wrote: »

A bit more self control would be required too - if you have symptoms, then stay home and don't risk the spread.

Previously, people would often have advised to try 'sweat out' a cold or flu but that won't be an option now.

This is going to be key across the entire economy whether it be entering an office or building site to work, a restaurant to eat in or a gym to exercise in - for the next 12-18 months at least.

If you are coughing or have a temperature, stay at home for everybody else's sake.

Black Sheep

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

This is going to be key across the entire economy whether it be entering an office or building site to work, a restaurant to eat in or a gym to exercise in - for the next 12-18 months at least.

If you are coughing or have a temperature, stay at home for everybody else's sake.

One measure being discussed in a sports club I’m involved in is temperature checks on the way in to training. This has been used in healthcare settings. Takes a forehead thermometer, staff member with a mask and the willingness to politely send people home.

VonLuck

Black Sheep wrote: »

One measure being discussed in a sports club I’m involved in is temperature checks on the way in to training. This has been used in healthcare settings. Takes a forehead thermometer, staff member with a mask and the willingness to politely send people home.

All well and good, but it won't catch people who are asymptomatic unfortunately.

Black Sheep

VonLuck wrote: »

All well and good, but it won't catch people who are asymptomatic unfortunately.

Sure, there are no easy answers to that. But that doesn’t mean measures to mitigate other risks aren’t worth implementing:)

In this case the person running a temperature who either doesn’t realise it or knows but still insists on turning up to training. Pre Covid 19 I’d have seen people come to training clearly coughing and sneezing, there wouldn’t have been the same awareness that this isn’t really acceptable. Different times!

VonLuck

Black Sheep wrote: »

Sure, there are no easy answers to that. But that doesn’t mean measures to mitigate other risks aren’t worth implementing:)

In this case the person running a temperature who either doesn’t realise it or knows but still insists on turning up to training. Pre Covid 19 I’d have seen people come to training clearly coughing and sneezing, there wouldn’t have been the same awareness that this isn’t really acceptable. Different times!

Oh I know, just making the observation in case anyone thinks it's a catch all solution.

There will always be a risk no matter how many measures are put in place, unless you're literally in a hermetically sealed bubble! It ultimately comes down to whether people are happy to take the risks.

ILoveYourVibes

There is a lot of time wasted in going to the gym getting there etc. For most people its not necessary. They can get perfectly good workouts at home.

I think a lot of people will realize if they are going to have the motivation to do it then they will have the motivation at home too.

They say 4 out of 5 gym memberships go unused.

Cleaning your machine etc the risks...will just be more reasons not to go for people who already maybe don't always like the gym.

Alf Veedersane

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

There is a lot of time wasted in going to the gym getting there etc. For most people its not necessary. They can get perfectly good workouts at home.

I think a lot of people will realize if they are going to have the motivation to do it then they will have the motivation at home too

Motivation to do so is no replacement for free weights and machines

You can get a decent workout at home. You won't improve your strength by much without the means to do so and for that you need a range of weights. Only so much you can do with bands and the small amount of dumbbells or kettlebells some people may have

ILoveYourVibes

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Motivation to do so is no replacement for free weights and machines

You can get a decent workout at home. You won't improve your strength by much without the means to do so and for that you need a range of weights. Only so much you can do with bands and the small amount of dumbbells or kettlebells some people may have

You can use body weight etc. Its enough for most people.

You can still get to the threshold needed to improve things like bone density etc

For a lot of people who just want to be healthy that is all they want.


Im not suggesting people here should stop going.

But for people with busy lives etc. Its easier to work out at home.

If your goal is to lift a certain amount in a deadlift ...then obv you need a gym.

ILoveYourVibes

Im actually thinking of buying a barbell for myself though and some weights.

I want to improve deadlifts for exactly that preventing low bone density as I age in my back. I don't need a bench i can use the ground

I run so that's the lower body bone density taken care of ..i just worry about the spine and the shoulders.

I already have a few sets of dumbells.

Alf Veedersane

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You can use body weight etc. Its enough for most people.

You can still get to the threshold needed to improve things like bone density etc

For a lot of people who just want to be healthy that is all they want.

Im not suggesting people here should stop going.

But for people with busy lives etc. Its easier to work out at home.

If your goal is to lift a certain amount in a deadlift ...then obv you need a gym.

It's an oversimplification. You're not accounting for psychology. There are people who go to the gym who need to, mentally, to do a workout. The act of committing to going there is a motivation to do something.

It's also difficult to motivate yourself at home. I find it more difficult than I do when I go to the gym...its a mindset thing.

Also, some people wouldn't know where to start when it comes to working out at home...doing exercises that workout the whole body. The gym, to a large extent, makes that a lot easier with machines etc.

In theory, its easier to workout at home. But you still need to know how to get a full body workout with just bodyweight or some dumbbells. And you still need to motivate yourself to workout in your living room or bedroom or outside your front door, depending on your living arrangements

DM_7

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's an oversimplification. You're not accounting for psychology. There are people who go to the gym who need to, mentally, to do a workout. The act of committing to going there is a motivation to do something.

It's also difficult to motivate yourself at home. I find it more difficult than I do when I go to the gym...its a mindset thing.

Also, some people wouldn't know where to start when it comes to working out at home...doing exercises that workout the whole body. The gym, to a large extent, makes that a lot easier with machines etc.

In theory, its easier to workout at home. But you still need to know how to get a full body workout with just bodyweight or some dumbbells. And you still need to motivate yourself to workout in your living room or bedroom or outside your front door, depending on your living arrangements

It is vast area - many people who go on a regular basis will have different reasons for going.

Some people will have found ways to happily workout at home, while having to stay at home and when weather is overall good. Many more will not due to a lack of suitable space at home or as you say motivation.

It is unknown to what degree life will return to normal and what impact that has on people's lifestyle will impact the leisure industry overall from gyms to pools to pubs and cinema's.

If I was in the the gym industry I would be looking at how to get people who want to be there back in the doors first and work from there. Who are the people who were visiting most and doing what I can to accommodate their wishes and needs. I think there is an ability to take a more personal approach and reaching out to people directly, resell yourself, compared to other areas like the cinema or a restaurant.

Alf Veedersane

DM_7 wrote: »

It is vast area - many people who go on a regular basis will have different reasons for going.

Some people will have found ways to happily workout at home, while having to stay at home and when weather is overall good. Many more will not due to a lack of suitable space at home or as you say motivation.

It is unknown to what degree life will return to normal and what impact that has on people's lifestyle will impact the leisure industry overall from gyms to pools to pubs and cinema's.

Exactly- many people have different reasons for going.

I don't think the ability to do a workout at home in the short term means that most people won't go back. And there may be other factors that people don't go back and who end up dropping away from exercise.

I was just making the point that just because people can do a workout from home, it doesn't mean they will no longer want to go to the gym, for a variety of reasons.

Having space and equipment is really only a small part of it for a lot of people.

Alf Veedersane

DM_7 wrote: »

If I was in the the gym industry I would be looking at how to get people who want to be there back in the doors first and work from there. Who are the people who were visiting most and doing what I can to accommodate their wishes and needs. I think there is an ability to take a more personal approach and reaching out to people directly, resell yourself, compared to other areas like the cinema or a restaurant.

That's an interesting thought alright. The like of Flyefit would have a log of all people who visited their gyms so being a bit more proactive with their regular members is certainly something they should consider. Especially since it's so easy to opt out of the rolling membership.

I think most people just want (a) to feel the gym is providing for their safety and (b) that they are providing what feels like a safe environment.

But even an email to members saying they are working hard on plans and protocols for the safe return of their members would help. This is something they should have been working on and I'm surprised they haven't followed up with members since it became clear that August 10th was the target date.

billybonkers

I just need a rack and bench is that too much to ask!! Don't need touch anything other than the bar and plates.

Thinking about it actually, cleaning the pates before and after use would be a pain!

Alf Veedersane

billybonkers wrote: »

I just need a rack and bench is that too much to ask!! Don't need touch anything other than the bar and plates.

Thinking about it actually, cleaning the pates before and after use would be a pain!

Clean it before. Then the next person cleans before.

Is it a pain? Yep. But better than not having a bar and plates to clean

el Fenomeno

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's also difficult to motivate yourself at home. I find it more difficult than I do when I go to the gym...its a mindset thing.

This is big for me, too.

The amount of times I've found myself leaving out the last set, or taking too much of a breather between sets, since working out at home is shocking.

Don't know why, just so much more complacent at home.

Alf Veedersane

el Fenomeno wrote: »

This is big for me, too.

The amount of times I've found myself leaving out the last set, or taking too much of a breather between sets, since working out at home is shocking.

Don't know why, just so much more complacent at home.

Yep. I hear ya. I don't even have any distractions cos I'm either out the front or the back....but it takes me longer to do the work than it would in the gym and they're not even as taxing as something normal training so I don't need the same rest.

rubadub

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I prob can't use them now. I would say after he 18th i can though.

signs were still up in my park just now, there was nothing in those rules to suggest they would be taken down anyway, but I also wondered if they might be. The gates to the park were open to the carpark.

There were way more groups of people, young lads hop the locked gate to a 5 a side pitch. Most were distancing to some degree. There was a group of about 10 teenage girls who were all huddled up though.

Spotted some new parallel bars, they are sheffield stands for bikes. I noticed 2 of them were unusually close together. There was another set a little wider which were feasible for them too, thank god for lazy builders who do not measure evenly.

this type, nice thick bars and solid as a rock, way better than the actual dip bars that are signposted not to use!

caviardreams

billybonkers wrote: »

I just need a rack and bench is that too much to ask!! Don't need touch anything other than the bar and plates.

Thinking about it actually, cleaning the pates before and after use would be a pain!

A plus side of not lifting heavy for ages - I can probably just make do with just the bar and no plates soon :P:o:o:o