Relaxation of restrictions

Dr. Bre

Where’s the end game here? Obviously a vaccine but do we return to the zoo after Easter and let nature take its course .

timmy_mallet

ITman88 wrote: »

Most are ignoring this.

It is exactly the elephant!

Officials in the UK did a study last week on the effects of the restrictions and determined a shrink in the economy of 6% is the equilibrium where the economic contraction will cause more deaths.

It’s forbidden however from being mentioned by many posters, you will be accused of immaturity/lack of empathy/not understanding the effects of the virus etc.

If it doesn't turn up in the hospital, people don't care. Ask a garda in a few years how they're doing when the rate of suicide is through the roof and they're spending their shifts dealing with it.

timmy_mallet

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Where’s the end game here? Obviously a vaccine but do we return to the zoo after Easter and let nature take its course .

I wouldnt be going near a vaccine for 5 to 10 years at least, and I dont think I'd be in the minority. Would honestly take the first one to market?

Dr. Bre

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I wouldnt be going near a vaccine for 5 to 10 years at least, and I dont think I'd be in the minority. Would honestly take the first one to market?

The problem is most will take it straight away because this has been so much on the news

ITman88

storker wrote: »

How many deaths were attributable to the last recession?

http://jvalue.co.uk/papers/J-value-assessment-of-combating-Covid-19-Thomas-23.3.2020.pdf

It’s in there somewhere

jules5417

JoeA3 wrote: »

Not everyone is living the same life in the same circumstances as you. It sounds like its easy street for you, but for many people it most definitely is not.

Think of those for example living in very cramped apartments, those living with extended family, those with young children (especially if they are special needs) who don't understand why they can't get out, those who live alone and cannot visit their friends/family, those living under the threat of domestic abuse, etc, etc. For so many people, these restrictions are torture. And thats before we even get to the economy, what its going to do to so many businesses.

Personally I really hope that they'll relax it back to how it was before last Friday. My optimism isn’t high though. Hand on heart, the impact these restrictions are having on me is causing me far more stress and worry than any perceived risk of catching the virus itself.

When i get stressed I think about anne frank in an attic for 2 years with another family and knowing if she gets caught she will die. I also think of countries where if you dont work you dont eat like India. We need to look outwards and realise we are so lucky. We are getting financial help. I know it is stressful, also if somebody is suffering domestic abuse the law hasnt changed,you should still phone the guards.

ITman88

timmy_mallet wrote: »

If it doesn't turn up in the hospital, people don't care. Ask a garda in a few years how they're doing when the rate of suicide is through the roof and they're spending their shifts dealing with it.

Exactly it’s complete ignorance by some posters.

If it’s not on the news diagnosed as had/might have covid death it never happened and covid is the only way someone can die.

timmy_mallet

Dr. Bre wrote: »

The problem is most will take it straight away because this has been so much on the news

Harris is a vaccine mandator, 'd be worried about his role in this.

timmy_mallet

jules5417 wrote: »

When i get stressed I think about anne frank in an attic for 2 years with another family and knowing if she gets caught she will die. I also think of countries where if you dont work you dont eat like India. We need to look outwards and realise we are so lucky. We are getting financial help. I know it is stressful, also if somebody is suffering domestic abuse the law hasnt changed,you should still phone the guards.

Well, quite, some are thinking if countries like India, and that's why this focus on prioritising a small minority needs to be seriously reconsidered.

Arghus

I posted this in the main thread earlier.

I have to laugh at the naivete of people who say how can they impose stricter restrictions, as if this is as restricted as it gets.

This is restrictive, unbelievably so. But it's nowhere near what it could be. You could be in for a shock in a week or two. I hope not, but who knows.

There's plenty of people still out walking everywhere, there isn't really that visable of a presence of cops, you can go as often and as far as you like to the shops and plenty of factories and workplaces that aren't really essential have massaged that interpretation of the rules to stay open.

Harsher would mean only bare bones essential services staying open - chemists, foodstores, perhaps some banks. All restaurants closing, even for takeaway, remaining places of work except for those in the medical industry being closed. No more 2km walks. Maybe even no more walks outside full stop. And limitations on numbers of visits to foodshop, with only one person per household allowed. And cops and the army really up in your face asking you all about your business. That's a full lock down.

In a nutshell, don't expect things to be relaxed for a good while. In fact, expect more restrictions.

Talk of just after Easter is fantasy stuff. April, forget it. I would be amazed if May isn't partially or totally out of the question as well. They need to get the rate of daily infections down to effectively zero and to keep it there for a period afterwards, just to be sure you have stopped the spread. You can't reopen things before then or else exactly the same rapid growth will happen again. It is so obvious. How people don't get that is amazing.

GT89

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I think pubs and clubs should be the last things to reopen. They will be packed when they reopen and when they finally do, they will all have to open together, can't phase that in because the ones that do open will be even busier.

Pubs could reopen with certain restrictions on numbers maybe with bouncers on the door stopping big groups and restricting the amount of people coming in depnding on size. Clubs would be a big no no though.

timmy_mallet

Arghus wrote: »

I posted this in the main thread earlier.

I have to laugh at the naivete of people who say how can they impose stricter restrictions, as if this is as restricted as it gets.

This is restrictive, unbelievably so. But it's nowhere near what it could be. You could be in for a shock in a week or two. I hope not, but who knows.

There's plenty of people still out walking everywhere, there isn't really that visable of a presence of cops, you can go as often and as far as you like to the shops and plenty of factories and workplaces that aren't really essential have massaged that interpretation of the rules to stay open.

Harsher would mean only bare bones essential services staying open - chemists, foodstores, perhaps some banks. All restaurants closing, even for takeaway, remaining places of work except for those in the medical industry being closed. No more 2km walks. Maybe even no more walks outside full stop. And limitations on numbers of visits to foodshop, with only one person per household allowed. And cops and the army really up in your face asking you all about your business. That's a full lock down.

In a nutshell, don't expect things to be relaxed for a good while. In fact, expect more restrictions.

Talk of just after Easter is fantasy stuff. April, forget it. I would be amazed if May isn't partially or totally out of the question as well. They need to get the rate of daily infections down to effectively zero and to keep it there for a period afterwards, just to be sure you have stopped the spread. You can't reopen things before then or else exactly the same rapid growth will happen again. It is so obvious. How people don't get that is amazing.

People do get it. They're capable of assessing risk.

Logan Roy

1. How are you going to enforce these restrictions?
2. What's the necessity of getting it down to 0 if infections can still arrive in from other countries? Will we close our borders both arrivals and departures indefinitely to avoid these "imported" cases?

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Arghus wrote: »

I posted this in the main thread earlier.

I have to laugh at the naivete of people who say how can they impose stricter restrictions, as if this is as restricted as it gets.

This is restrictive, unbelievably so. But it's nowhere near what it could be. You could be in for a shock in a week or two. I hope not, but who knows.

There's plenty of people still out walking everywhere, there isn't really that visable of a presence of cops, you can go as often and as far as you like to the shops and plenty of factories and workplaces that aren't really essential have massaged that interpretation of the rules to stay open.

Harsher would mean only bare bones essential services staying open - chemists, foodstores, perhaps some banks. All restaurants closing, even for takeaway, remaining places of work except for those in the medical industry being closed. No more 2km walks. Maybe even no more walks outside full stop. And limitations on numbers of visits to foodshop, with only one person per household allowed. And cops and the army really up in your face asking you all about your business. That's a full lock down.

In a nutshell, don't expect things to be relaxed for a good while. In fact, expect more restrictions.

Talk of just after Easter is fantasy stuff. April, forget it. I would be amazed if May isn't partially or totally out of the question as well. They need to get the rate of daily infections down to effectively zero and to keep it there for a period afterwards, just to be sure you have stopped the spread. You can't reopen things before then or else exactly the same rapid growth will happen again. It is so obvious. How people don't get that is amazing.

What benefit would further restrictions have? To stop 4 people outside sneezing on each other when that isn't actually happening. Of course there won't be tougher restrictions. Things will ease off by end of the month but still nothing like schools opening for a few months.

Arghus

timmy_mallet wrote: »

People do get it. They're capable of assessing risk.

I work in a Supermarket. I can tell you for a fact that a lot of people are not.

easypazz

Arghus wrote: »

I posted this in the main thread earlier.

I have to laugh at the naivete of people who say how can they impose stricter restrictions, as if this is as restricted as it gets.

This is restrictive, unbelievably so. But it's nowhere near what it could be. You could be in for a shock in a week or two. I hope not, but who knows.

There's plenty of people still out walking everywhere, there isn't really that visable of a presence of cops, you can go as often and as far as you like to the shops and plenty of factories and workplaces that aren't really essential have massaged that interpretation of the rules to stay open.

Harsher would mean only bare bones essential services staying open - chemists, foodstores, perhaps some banks. All restaurants closing, even for takeaway, remaining places of work except for those in the medical industry being closed. No more 2km walks. Maybe even no more walks outside full stop. And limitations on numbers of visits to foodshop, with only one person per household allowed. And cops and the army really up in your face asking you all about your business. That's a full lock down.

In a nutshell, don't expect things to be relaxed for a good while. In fact, expect more restrictions.

Talk of just after Easter is fantasy stuff. April, forget it. I would be amazed if May isn't partially or totally out of the question as well. They need to get the rate of daily infections down to effectively zero and to keep it there for a period afterwards, just to be sure you have stopped the spread. You can't reopen things before then or else exactly the same rapid growth will happen again. It is so obvious. How people don't get that is amazing.

We have a low population density, so extra measures might not be very effective.

Nobody expects to see much relaxation in April.

Harry Palmr

I'm now so hemmed already in I'm actually looking forward to going to a supermarket tomorrow

timmy_mallet

Arghus wrote: »

I work in a Supermarket. I can tell you for a fact that a lot of people are not.

How do you know?

jules5417

GT89 wrote: »

Tbh I am following the measures at the moment for the two week period but if it is extended then I will start to break the restrictions and breach the 2km radius. I think it will get to the point if they extend the measures for too long a period then people will just ignore especially now the weather is improving. I think it will get to the point where the measures will be so widly ignored by the vast majority it will be unenforceable.

How old are you 5? Just do what we are been told to do and dont make this about just you. Restrictions lifted too soon loads more deaths but hey as long you are sorted its all good.

jules5417

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Well, quite, some are thinking if countries like India, and that's why this focus on prioritising a small minority needs to be seriously reconsidered.

So are you saying our elderly dont matter

SuperRabbit

Why are we still having this stupid ****ing conversation.
1. If thousands upon thousands of people die in Ireland it will hurt our economy just as much as a shut down, and no one will go to restaurants or buy iphones because they will be too terrified for their lives
2. Plenty of young people with no underlying health conditions have died of this virus. Just because it mostly kills elderly people and people with diabetes, cancer, asthma etc. doesn't mean it won't also kill hundreds of young people with no other health problems if we just let it run rampant.

Bloop bloop bloop

Unrelated: New Dr Mike covid faq video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMopOpiNB1s

easypazz

jules5417 wrote: »

How old are you 5? Just do what we are been told to do and dont make this about just you. Restrictions lifted too soon loads more deaths but hey as long you are sorted its all good.

He is right though, people will get bored quick and break ignore the rules.

The only thing that will sharpen peoples minds is a strong upward daily death curve.

So far the perception in Ireland is its mainly old people clustered in nursing homes who were seriously ill anyway.

Arghus

Logan Roy wrote: »

1. How are you going to enforce these restrictions?
2. What's the necessity of getting it down to 0 if infections can still arrive in from other countries? Will we close our borders both arrivals and departures indefinitely to avoid these "imported" cases?

I don't know, but things we thought were unworkable and impossible, unenforceable even,up until a few weeks ago have turned out to be very possible. I presume if further restrictions were put in place, you'd assume the majority would just obey them and you'd have increased visibility of Gaurds and the Army on the street, which would deter a lot of the rest. The Guards and the Army don't have unlimited manpower or resources but you'd be wary enough about making unnecessary journeys if you knew there was a chance you'd run into trouble for doing it.

Regarding infections coming in from outside. I'd love to know exactly how many people travelled into Ireland from elsewhere yesterday or today, who weren't Irish citizens or residents. It can't have been a very large number. It probably was a record low. And that record will be probably beaten again tomorrow.

easypazz

jules5417 wrote: »

So are you saying our elderly dont matter

When push comes to shove old people will be left out of ICU's and younger people treated first.

Old people can look after themselves by cocooning.

YFlyer

kieran. wrote: »

What further step up measures do you think will be imposed?

No casual walking, running or cycling. Have one shopping per week and one pharmacy visit per week.

timmy_mallet

jules5417 wrote: »

So are you saying our elderly dont matter

No.

Dr. Bre

YFlyer wrote: »

No casual walking, running or cycling. Have one shopping per week and one pharmacy visit per week.

Very hard to police this

timmy_mallet

YFlyer wrote: »

No casual walking, running or cycling. Have one shopping per week and one pharmacy visit per week.

Can I walk a little quicker than casual, would that be ok?

Can I cycle to the pharmacy visit or not?

If I forget something if I'm a little forgetful, do I have to wait til next week?

Arghus

timmy_mallet wrote: »

How do you know?

Where I work, about 30% of custimers still pay no heed to things like social distancing or cough etiquette. I see this with my own eyes every hour of every day. It is a fact.

And the proportion of my Co-workers who are oblivious to those things is closer to 50-60%

GT89

Arghus wrote: »

I posted this in the main thread earlier.

I have to laugh at the naivete of people who say how can they impose stricter restrictions, as if this is as restricted as it gets.

This is restrictive, unbelievably so. But it's nowhere near what it could be. You could be in for a shock in a week or two. I hope not, but who knows.

There's plenty of people still out walking everywhere, there isn't really that visable of a presence of cops, you can go as often and as far as you like to the shops and plenty of factories and workplaces that aren't really essential have massaged that interpretation of the rules to stay open.

Harsher would mean only bare bones essential services staying open - chemists, foodstores, perhaps some banks. All restaurants closing, even for takeaway, remaining places of work except for those in the medical industry being closed. No more 2km walks. Maybe even no more walks outside full stop. And limitations on numbers of visits to foodshop, with only one person per household allowed. And cops and the army really up in your face asking you all about your business. That's a full lock down.

In a nutshell, don't expect things to be relaxed for a good while. In fact, expect more restrictions.

Talk of just after Easter is fantasy stuff. April, forget it. I would be amazed if May isn't partially or totally out of the question as well. They need to get the rate of daily infections down to effectively zero and to keep it there for a period afterwards, just to be sure you have stopped the spread. You can't reopen things before then or else exactly the same rapid growth will happen again. It is so obvious. How people don't get that is amazing.

Do we have the numbers of Gardai to implement such measures. It's clear to me proportionally there are a lot more police in countries like Spain and Italy than here in Ireland and let's face it there's no messing with the police in these places. What will be the punishment for breach of such measures? Fines?

Will people actually pay these fines. I can't see a situation where after this is over people will be dragged into court for non payment of fines accumulated during this crisis. If that happens the judicary system will be overwhelmed.