Relaxation of restrictions

timmy_mallet

Nermal wrote: »

10,000 people, two thirds who would die within a year anyway. (https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2020/04/15/1586943153000/Why-are-we-really-in-lockdown--/)

Let's be generous and assume that the remaining third would have 10 years left on average. That's 40,000 years of life saved.

Until the present mania gripped our leaders it was national policy not to spend more than €45,000 per year of life saved.
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26497002)

So if we've really averted 10,000 deaths, we shouldn't have spent more than €1.8bn to do so.

We projected to spend more than twelve times that this year alone!

I think the only way some of you will wake up is when a ration-book pops through the letterbox. After you're done disinfecting it, of course.

Money vs Life, how awful of you... Incoming in 3, 2, 1...

Tell me how

easypazz wrote: »

I shouldn't have to.

If the minister for health is making statements then they should be transparently available on as many channels as possible.

In particular gov.ie

You are right. It's not like during the 12 minute video that he directed people to gov.ie to keep abreast of the latest information. (Yes he did).

You seem to want to get outraged over a ridiculous non-issue.

easypazz

Xertz wrote: »

Sorry for going slightly OT here, but, in general newspapers have always been purchased. It's not like you can just walk into your local shop and pick up a copy of the Sunday Business Post or the Sunday Independent and walk out the door with it without paying.

You're generally paying for their opinion and analysis, not just for access to raw press statements and there's widespread public availability through free-to-air public service TV i.e. RTE and Virgin Media is Free to Air and then you've lots of reasonably good quality online content available e.g. RTE.ie, IrishExaminer.com, Brakingnews.ie, independent.ie (most of it), and of course thejournal.ie and plenty of other that are totally free to read.

I think the subscription models some of the traditional newspapers are using are using are FAR, FAR too expensive and I can't understand why more papers aren't using the likes of Apple Pay and Google Pay, PayPal etc etc to let people just quickly purchase a copy of a single edition or coming in with pricing of about €10/month.

Most of them are trying to get subscriptions for secure cashflow but in a lot of cases they're simply way too expensive, given they're significantly more than the cost of say Netflix or Spotify per month.

I'd say we'll have a complete cull of the number of papers we have in Ireland in the coming months (major drying up of advertising going on) as many of them really have not adapted to the online world and even all these years into 'new media' they still treated it as a niche, extra channel and failed to make it pay. It's not unique to Ireland, but I think we are going to see a rather changed media market by 2021.

We get all that but the point here is that the situation is extremely serious and Ministers shooting the breeze in interviews, which are edited to sell copy, causes further confusion and upset to people.

RTE are the public service broadcaster and are at least obliged to provide the information factually.

Muahahaha

completedit wrote: »

The way we have framed the crisis has just changed. The masses are just where some of us were like 6 weeks ago in terms of accepting the situation. Now the whole narrative has changed that we can get back to business as usual while people die and even if there is a spike those people will just be viewed as collateral damage. Simple psychology. We just get used to certain things and people dying by Covid will just be the norm. Business as usual

I think you're on the money there. Govt. is stuck between a rock and a hard place between considerations about public health vs the economy. Waiting 12-18 months for a potential vaccine is not an option and even if it was the public would not put up with it. So collateral damage after restrictions are lifted will be accepted.

Xertz

easypazz wrote: »

We get all that but the point here is that the situation is extremely serious and Ministers shooting the breeze in interviews, which are edited to sell copy, causes further confusion and upset to people.

RTE are the public service broadcaster and are at least obliged to provide the information factually.

And they do, but the business models of the papers are commercially driven. They've never had any public service requirement or licensing requirements. They just do what they do within reason and most of them are seriously struggling for revenue at the moment.

I can point at holes in their business models, but I don't think forcing them to drop pay walls is going to do much other than end up with no income, particularly when ad revenue has fallen through the floor in recent weeks.

The One Doctor

growleaves wrote: »

False. The models on which restrictions were based turned out to be objectively wrong and were revised downwards.

As well as that, recent research from virologists has shown that the disease is far less infectious than was assumed.

So we aren't pretty much exactly where we have been for the last couple of months, from a scientific point of view. We're pretty much exactly somewhere entirely different.

Evidence please.

martingriff

Tell me how wrote: »

You are right. It's not like during the 12 minute video that he directed people to gov.ie to keep abreast of the latest information. (Yes he did).

You seem to want to get outraged over a ridiculous non-issue.

It reminds me when a question was asked in Irish in a briefing I think either last week or the week before and there were people giving out

growleaves

The One Doctor wrote: »

Evidence please.

Post #8132

“So far, no transmission of the virus in supermarkets, restaurants or hairdressers has been proved.” - German virologist

niallo27

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

There are loads of people out driving today.
I think a lot of people have made their decision on what the lockdown means.
The Royal Canal footpath was packed with people.

How do you know all this.

KrustyUCC

After today 15 days of lockdown left

12 days to the probable announcement on the Friday

Spanish Eyes

Honestly, I sometimes smile at the naivety of some posters here.

Even IF total lockdown is eased somewhat, it will be the same for many people anyway. Construction might be allowed, DIY/Garden centres of a certain size could re open, and that's it for now.

Schools I don't think will open again until September, and if they do there will have to be tiny classes, and one day a week for pupils. Teachers need to be protected against the kiddie carriers too remember?

I'm working on the basis that it will be September/October before we see any real opening up of anything more really. If it is done too soon, there could be another spike, and back we go again to lockdown to help the hospitals cope.

I am not a negative person, but am a realist, and figure if things go well it's a bonus, but better to be slow and steady about it for now.

easypazz

KrustyUCC wrote: »

After today 15 days of lockdown left

12 days to the probable announcement on the Friday

Surely an announcement will be earlier than that so that construction sites can be getting organised etc.?

frillyleaf

easypazz wrote: »

We get all that but the point here is that the situation is extremely serious and Ministers shooting the breeze in interviews, which are edited to sell copy, causes further confusion and upset to people.

RTE are the public service broadcaster and are at least obliged to provide the information factually.

This is my point. These type of interviews cause more confusion in my opinion. It’s just under the current circumstances that I think this type of communication is quite poor and can easily cause confusion.

niallo27

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Honestly, I sometimes smile at the naivety of some posters here.

Even IF total lockdown is eased somewhat, it will be the same for many people anyway. Construction might be allowed, DIY/Garden centres of a certain size could re open, and that's it for now.

Schools I don't think will open again until September, and if they do there will have to be tiny classes, and one day a week for pupils. Teachers need to be protected against the kiddie carriers too remember?

I'm working on the basis that it will be September/October before we see any real opening up of anything more really. If it is done too soon, there could be another spike, and back we go again to lockdown to help the hospitals cope.

I am not a negative person, but am a realist, and figure if things go well it's a bonus, but better to be slow and steady about it for now.

Your not a realist if you think 19 or 20 more weeks more or less like this is viable. Do you think the 350 will be paid until then.

KrustyUCC

The lockdown will be eased somewhat

The government are going to find it very hard to justify not easing lockdown measures

KrustyUCC

easypazz wrote: »

Surely an announcement will be earlier than that so that construction sites can be getting organised etc.?

Just a guess on my part

They usually meet on Fridays

Don't think we will get an early announcement

BanditLuke

KrustyUCC wrote: »

After today 15 days of lockdown left

12 days to the probable announcement on the Friday

You are going to be very disappointed I'm afraid.

Numbers still very high.

Speakerboxx

KrustyUCC wrote: »

The lockdown will be eased somewhat

The government are going to find it very hard to justify not easing lockdown measures

What's the panic? Do we want more deaths? The virus is still live and well in this country. Until it dies off we shouldn't be restricting anything. Do you know how contiguous it is?

road_high

pgj2015 wrote: »

what about the checkpoints where people are told to turn back and people being questioned on the streets by the guards?

There is quite a severe lockdown in Ireland backed up by unprecedented draconian legislation. It seems with some people unless the army aren’t on the streets beating people with canes it’s not a “real lockdown”.

niallo27

BanditLuke wrote: »

You are going to be very disappointed I'm afraid.

Numbers still very high.

They really arent though, another big reduction today.

BanditLuke

niallo27 wrote: »

They really arent though, another big reduction today.

Happens every Sunday Niall.

Speakerboxx

niallo27 wrote: »

They really arent though, another big reduction today.

Not enough to be honest

road_high

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Honestly, I sometimes smile at the naivety of some posters here.

Even IF total lockdown is eased somewhat, it will be the same for many people anyway. Construction might be allowed, DIY/Garden centres of a certain size could re open, and that's it for now.

Schools I don't think will open again until September, and if they do there will have to be tiny classes, and one day a week for pupils. Teachers need to be protected against the kiddie carriers too remember?

I'm working on the basis that it will be September/October before we see any real opening up of anything more really. If it is done too soon, there could be another spike, and back we go again to lockdown to help the hospitals cope.

I am not a negative person, but am a realist, and figure if things go well it's a bonus, but better to be slow and steady about it for now.

And I laugh at the naivety of some posters who think we can maintain a social welfare system and full health service at these levels funded by a dead economy

easypazz

Speakerboxx wrote: »

What's the panic? Do we want more deaths? The virus is still live and well in this country. Until it dies off we shouldn't be restricting anything. Do you know how contiguous it is?

We all get what the virus is.

We also get its not the only cvnt show in town.

ceadaoin.

Speakerboxx wrote: »

What's the panic? Do we want more deaths? The virus is still live and well in this country. Until it dies off we shouldn't be restricting anything. Do you know how contiguous it is?

Its not going to just die off. Thats not the point of a lock down. The point is to slow the spread to a level where it doesn't overwhelm the hospital system. If you want to wait and stay inside until it has completely passed you'll be waiting a long time.

KrustyUCC

BanditLuke wrote: »

You are going to be very disappointed I'm afraid.

Numbers still very high.

We'll see

Backlog cleared which will make numbers fall

Hospital admissions and numbers in ICU down

Figures looking positive

JRant

Regarding schools and the gradual reopening. I wonder is there any merit in extending the school year out to the end of July. Particularly primary schools who have little to no interaction with their schools since the beginning of March.

KrustyUCC

Speakerboxx wrote: »

What's the panic? Do we want more deaths? The virus is still live and well in this country. Until it dies off we shouldn't be restricting anything. Do you know how contiguous it is?

You cannot keep a lockdown going indefinitely

The virus will still be around

People will still get it and unfortunately some will still die

We need to learn to live with the virus and get back to some bit of normality

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Honestly, I sometimes smile at the naivety of some posters here.

Even IF total lockdown is eased somewhat, it will be the same for many people anyway. Construction might be allowed, DIY/Garden centres of a certain size could re open, and that's it for now.

Schools I don't think will open again until September, and if they do there will have to be tiny classes, and one day a week for pupils. Teachers need to be protected against the kiddie carriers too remember?

I'm working on the basis that it will be September/October before we see any real opening up of anything more really. If it is done too soon, there could be another spike, and back we go again to lockdown to help the hospitals cope.

I am not a negative person, but am a realist, and figure if things go well it's a bonus, but better to be slow and steady about it for now.

They'll ease restrictions forthnightly while keeping an eye on numebrs. Spikes in cases will depend on size and HSE capacity. The 2km ban will probably be one of the next things to go and larger shops opening.

This is and always was going to be just a case of buying time to build up resources and increase resiliance.

facehugger99

JRant wrote: »

I wonder is there any merit in extending the school year out to the end of July.

I think you'll find the teacher unions will come up with compelling reason why they can't do this.