Working From Home Megathread

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540224#Comment_118540224

yeah again thats not how remote or hybrid working is done. You agree the pattern with your employer. You dont seem to be fan of remote working which is again fine. A lot of us embarced new technologues and new ways of working over the last 2 years and dont wish to go backwards. As for the final decision and who makes it - I would wait and see on that.

Man Vs ManUre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539927#Comment_118539927

Totally agree. Lot of people on here are selfish and only interested in what’s easy for them. If you view your job as a career then it’s much more than the end product of you’re daily routine actions, you are supposed to be a part of the company and always going that extra mile. If that requires being in an office or wherever, having face to face interaction then that’s that. Enough of this computer communication Nerds, this is planet Earth not The Twilight Zone or Black Mirror.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540297#Comment_118540297

oh no someone hates technology ha ha and doesnt realise that face to face interaction increases by remote working (yes via a screen). Its 2022 not 1982. Some things phased out a long time ago. Progress is good.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539995#Comment_118539995

They do, because it is legally required to state it.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540145#Comment_118540145

Totally agree.

But remember that increasing labour supply will, over time, drive down wages. So don't be complaining later when your own pay isn't increased because Paddy in Donegal, or Piotr in Warsaw, will do the job for less.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540393#Comment_118540393

Well yes, but that wasn’t really the point. The point was you are expected to work at a certain location, and if your contract states that, your employer will be able to use that to call you back.

I don’t think most employers will do this but that’s their current trumped card I would imagine.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540417#Comment_118540417

yes that follows on from the point i was making, people will take remote jobs on lower pay as it will suit their circumstances better and probably mean they arent any worse off in net terms with no commute and ancillary costs.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540344#Comment_118540344

Can't say increase in communicating via technology has been progress socially.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540417#Comment_118540417

No offence taken.

..Paddy in Donegal.

Dav010

If there is going to be a wage/career progression disparity between office and wfh, perhaps this will be the biggest test yet of the value people put on “work-life balance”.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540698#Comment_118540698

yeah the workplace isnt for social interaction so meet your friends however you like. Online communicaton allows greater collaboration - well for us anyway. No longer restricted by the physical space available (how many can fit in a room) means actually attendance at meetings/conferences/workshops increased. Not applicable for all situations but again huge benefits. I work in a university so the demand for online learning and online exams has been huge. Hanging out with your friends is not part of that.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540417#Comment_118540417

why are you assuming people would complain. Less costs and more work life balance especially when you dont have wage progression is a huge bonus. Again not a reason for refusing remote working going forward

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540851#Comment_118540851

possibly but that value is down to the individual. Life is more important - work doesnt care about you

A lot of people dont have many friends though and the working environment is ideal for meeting people at the same stage of life as yourself.

Most of us have life long friends met through work and these friendships last even when people move to new workplaces etc.

Can you imagine livingin some god forsaken place somewhere and you are counting the days to moving away and starting your working life so you can meet new people, how much harder to make friends getting up every morning and switching on the laptop. Having your lunch sitting at the table the laptop is on because you havent room in the tiny bedroom for a table and chair.

Many people are tiring of dating apps etc, its impossible to meet up with someone even people looking for partners, it would be even more difficult to llok for friends online to to out with. Saying talking to someone through a computer is the same as meeting them face to face may be true if a person is autistic, I dont know a single young person graduating this year who wants to WFH,they want to leave their parents house, go to an office, learn on the job with more senior people, go to the pub after work and onto a night club.

If i was an employer and had someone looking to work from home I would be asking about childcare arrangements,there is no way I would pay someone a salary if they intended to pick their child up from school, stick them in front of a screen while the work I was paying someone to do was being done in between keeping children quiet.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540929#Comment_118540929

The reasons for refusing wfh as outlined by Government are now so broad, the employer could pick any reason they want to return to office based working.

Absolutely agree, it is down to personal choice whether to accept any associated negative impact with wfh. But not everyone will be happy with potential wage/promotion disparity, if they exist.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540971#Comment_118540971

In the future all of our socialising will be done in the metaverse anyway. Most of my friends even now are AI chatbots.🙂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540887#Comment_118540887

Of course the workplace is the place for social interaction, do younot like other people, are you happier being on your own.

If peope didnt benefit from the social interaction at work then retirement wouldnt be a difficult life transition.

It is difficult for some people, men in particular to retire because much or their human interaction is in the workplace,we dont just work as robots, we work for the salary, for enjoyment, being part of a community,being in proximity to other people,the physical work place is important for somany reasons.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540973#Comment_118540973

true I suppose I dont have wage progression in my role so not a factor really. Again those reasons are weird to me.

As I mentioned already workplaces should have already covered those already - it seems a lot of places didnt which is worrying. Not for employees though. It depends on the final legislation and then the policies and procedures being updated in workplaces.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540998#Comment_118540998

I think you mean the workplace is social interaction for you. Great. An physical environment is important to some yes. I dont rely on my workpace for social interaction and I dont require it to do my job.

Again If you need social interaction as part of your work and get that from an office - continue to work in an office. Chatting in the canteen isnt my idea of fun.

Not at all relevant to remote working. Remote working can mean working in a physical office with other people if you need that. Remote working does mean working alone if you dont want that.

If you work from home as part of remote working nobody is stopping you physically meeting colleagues for social events if you want to.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541000#Comment_118541000

I suspect a considerable percentage of employers are tied into long leases or have bought office buildings, so getting employees to return to the office is just seen as reverting to the working arrangements which existed before Covid. From a cost viewpoint, unless the employer can downsize their offices, the cost of wfh may well be more than the office if H&S/equipment/insurance etc has to be absorbed by the employer.

It stands to reason that those that want to remain wfh will resign and look only for positions which allow wfh. Employers on the other hand may well be fishing in a much bigger pool for recruits from those who will gladly work in an office/hybrid working/wfh. Initially there will no doubt be a lot of movement in the workforce, but it will settle down. It might take 2-3 yrs before we see who is getting promoted/getting wage increases, and whether being “out of sight, out of mind” has an affect on employers considerations.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541063#Comment_118541063

yeah office rents seem to be an issue . Why would staff resign?

seems a very unusual idea of what remote working is here. Why would you be out of sight when you are remote working unless you mean the physical sense.

That sounds quite like discrimination to me but i havent worked in the private sector in a while. Is thinking that limited.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541076#Comment_118541076

Thinking in the private sector is dictated by the bottom line - turnover/ productivity/ usefulness/ bank balance. As it should be, if someone is not pulling their weight and not seen to be doing so, then they're on the road to replacement.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541121#Comment_118541121

yeah but thats not connected to remote working. Also nothing new.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541076#Comment_118541076

Why would staff resign? off the top of my head, some people who currently wfh will not want to go back to the office and will look for jobs that allow them to continue to wfh.

Of course I’m talking in the physical sense.

Discrimination legislation applies equally to both public and private sector. I think it is fair to say not all promotions are based solely on quality of output. Personal interactions/networking etc, like it or not, also plays a part. I have heard recruiters say during interviews on radio/TV that this gives those who attend in person an advantage, there is more scope to connect with managers on more levels than just work related tasks. Even if that is just being physically seen to be hard at work, or being instantly available to do tasks.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541158#Comment_118541158

ah ok but you are assuming their current employer can opt not to permit same under the proposed legislation using one of those reasons which should have been addressed in 2020 - see my original post. I assume thats what you mean.

Yeah thats not how promotions work in my workplace at all. Personal feelings of managers are not at all relevant. And discrimination applies equally so I assume anyone would FOI all correspondence related to a promotion if they felt they were prevented from promotion because someone thought they werent seen to be hard at work (in the physical sense) and sue them.

Why would remote working stop you from being instantly able to do tasks.

Performance is measureable in line with agreed policies and procedures - personal feelings are not relevant.

So no not at all applicable to remote working as you can physically see people at work if you are that obsessed. See previous post but remote working doesnt stop in person attendance for networking/etc if you want to.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541158#Comment_118541158

possibly the most confusing reply Ive seen today about remote working - like seriously. My manager can see if Im available or not when I work remotely. Not a big deal.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541214#Comment_118541214

It’s only confusing if you don’t understand the benefit of in person interactions when it comes to career progression.

You don’t think personal feelings are relevant when considering promotions? How naive. Work places are as much about internal politics and relationships with managers as they are about productivity.

Incidentally, FOI requests only apply to public bodies.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541223#Comment_118541223

Of course they are beneficial - but they are also not removed.

Really are personal feelings mentioned in your recruitment policies. Naive no (made me laugh). Cos it doesnt happen and its also illegal. You also cant determine someone's eligibility for promotion based on their gender/marital status etc

What you are describing is nepotism.

But in respect of remote working in person interaction doesnt stop. Like WTF.

My employer can see (physically) if Im available at any time aswell and I honestly dont understand what you mean about being instantly available.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541223#Comment_118541223

yeah I typed too fast my bad. Yeah doesnt sound like remote working suits wherever you work if your career prospects are dependent on the feelings of someone else.

May I suggest working somewhere else.

Again totally not relevant to remote working as some people and areas are not suitable.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541278#Comment_118541278

if you dont have wage progression one would assume you dont have career progression, which clearly colours your opinion and views.