Corona Virus and events

opus

py wrote: »

As Comrades continue to act like business as normal the attendees are getting more and more aggravated on social media. You'd think they'd have made a call by now but common sense is not prevailing.

They've said it's going ahead as planned :eek:

COMRADES TO GO AHEAD AS PLANNED

sideswipe

SuspectZero wrote: »

I know no one will listen to me as all your minds are already made up but what people here have to realise is that no one knows the answers and the politicalisation of this has further warped all reality. While it's easy to throw out words like incompetence and the problem with this approach or that approach is this or that, no one actually knows what the issues either short term or long term are.

The WHO has came out about all this, calling it an infodemic. All your social media accounts are sending you biased info which keeps reinforcing the echo chamber of online media. when you click on any link on your PC or phone, the website sends you cookies which track your movements(these are used to find out what you like so companies and media can target advertise you). Read the telegraph alot, it will be sent to you more often, read the covid 19 conspiracy media, it will be seen more often. Hence the issue with people not knowing that the UK Gov wasn't going with herd immunity because you have all been reading the media with agendas and bias over that because you've been constantly clicking on them articles.

Murph, when you say it's not suprising the media picked up herd immunity from the quote, it isn't suprising at all because they are the media and are in the buisness of making money. Vallance is an advisor, Did any of these media outlets actually confirm with the Government that this was the strategy? No because they are irresponsible as always. People need to stop believing everything they read. Matt Hancock( The UK health minister where official word is going to come from, not an advisor) was on the news the other night and said they were considering every option but would not be pursuing herd immunity, yet the media kept writing about it because fact checking does'nt matter to them.

People need to stop believing everything they read, when you read something online, you are getting an interpretation from the media which may onlybe loosely based on fact or in other cases, rumours. And people also need to understand that the info you do get online is completely biased to fit their opinions, confirmation bias.

For instance in another example, say someone only reads the gaurdian, they will be lapping up all the leftwing agendas, Only read the mail on Sunday and you'll be getting all the rightwing agendas. Social media works in the same way. And honestly, all of the politicalisation of the coronavirus during this whole crisis is complete and utter ****show, I'm pretty sure the virus doesn't give a flying fook about politics and neither will the best solution.

Sorry but that comes across as very condescending. Sweeping generalisations there. People were angry at the UK approach because it was taking place at the same time Italy and Spain were experiencing a similar trajectory as China and Iran. We share a land border and a huge amount of travel with them. So when they mentioned immunity and the fact that acquiring it would mean that ‘many would loose loved ones’ it rankled with people.

Your suggestion that ‘we’ need to stop believing everything we read online is an insult to the intelligence of everyone that reads this forum.

SuspectZero

sideswipe wrote: »

Sorry but that comes across as very condescending. Sweeping generalisations there. People were angry at the UK approach because it was taking place at the same time Italy and Spain were experiencing a similar trajectory as China and Iran. We share a land border and a huge amount of travel with them. So when they mentioned immunity and the fact that acquiring it would mean that ‘many would loose loved ones’ it rankled with people.

Your suggestion that ‘we’ need to stop believing everything we read online is an insult to the intelligence of everyone that reads this forum.

Has it not been proven true with the misinformation on herd immunity? it was never the official line, it was an un-fact checked rumour which should surely show that people are been manipulated by the media. I'm not blaming anyone here or taking down to anyone, I'm showing how much bs the media are spraying about and you have picked out one line out of context of the whole post to try and make it look otherwise but I'll leave it at that because I honestly dont have the energy for an argument

sideswipe

SuspectZero wrote: »

Has it not been proven true with the misinformation on herd immunity? it was never the official line, it was an un-fact checked rumour which should surely show that people are been manipulated by the media. I'm not blaming anyone here or taking down to anyone, I'm showing how much bs the media are spraying about and you have picked out one line out of context of the whole post to try and make it look otherwise but I'll leave it at that because I honestly dont have the energy for an argument

I’m not looking to have a go here, I don’t disagree with the points you’ve made by and large, I just feel you’re post came across condescending.
What I’m also trying to do is give a reason why people may be annoyed with the British approach and therefore more predisposed to latching onto phrases like ‘herd immunity’ both online and in the media.

SuspectZero

Fair enough and this will be my last post on here as it's probably as frustrating for everyone else as it is for me. Maybe my post was condescending, thats not for me to decide but if that's the measure of condescending, a lot of other posters have been doing the same here, when someone blatantly shutdown someone else's opinion, they too are been ignorant and condescending which has been a theme in this thread in that it has been adverserial to say the least I think we can all agree on that. No one knows the right answers and no one can be sure of anything where it comes to a point to be able to do that,. I understand that people have concerns as do I(I'm people too btw)

I apoligise if my post was condescending in tone but that is the reality of media and social media these days and all I was trying to add was more understanding of how it works just like when anyone else adds on something in a post here, the goal is for further understanding or atleast it should be anyway. there is no certainity here and I'm saying people need to be more openminded to solutions and opinions(which I feel is not happening in this thread from the perspective of thread enemy no. 1:pac:). I have no problem with anyone's thoughts here, I actually have'nt even disagreed with anyone, all I've been trying to do is get across not to write off anything because there is a tone of certainty in this thread that I felt isn't representive of the reality of how uncertain things really are. That's all.

robinph

Here is an article from a paper that has been strongly pushing the idea that Johnson was trying to generate herd immunity. This article was published straight after the press conference and there is not one mention of herd immunity in the article:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/12/uk-moves-to-delay-phase-of-coronavirus-plan

It took people picking up the wrong end of the stick on social media before the narrative from the media then switched to claiming that they were aiming for something they never said they were aiming for. Can't find a link to the video of the conference itself, but when I was watching it live there wasn't anything I got from the mention of herd immunity as anything other than a side effect that might be good if it happened.

Sacksian

Sir Patrick Vallance is the UK's Chief Scientific Officer. Last Friday, he said on BBC Radio 4 that one of “the key things we need to do” is to “build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission.”

The lack of clarity about the UK Govt strategy comes from the top. It is an established political tactic to use the press to brief on a topic rather than speak directly and so, a lot of information in the UK has been leaked to reporters by speaking off-the-record, attributed to "government sources". Usually, it's used to float an idea or spread something which you can then distance yourself from. There are advantages to it, in some circumstances, and while it is in keeping with the current administration's historical way of operating politically, it's inappropriate and irresponsible in the current situation. When people need clarity and certainty.

Honestly, do we genuinely believe the expert professionals in the UK who are criticising their strategy are doing so because they read a dodgy WhatsApp or that educated people can't critically evaluate information in their domain or judge media misinformation?

In fact, this is the basis of most disinformation campaigns these days: e.g. the idea that there is NO reliable information (e.g. "you can't trust anything" or "everyone has different opinions") is a cornerstone of climate scepticism.

There was almost universal condemnation for the UK's strategy from the outset (and it was based on a false premise, which they've now acknowledged) and now they've changed it.

Chivito550

Lads put on some music and get some cans of Guinness and chill the f**k out!

SuspectZero

Chivito550 wrote: »

Lads put on some music and get some cans of Guinness and chill the f**k out!

I would but I'm off the beer for lent. Has easter been cancelled yet?

DM_7

robinph wrote: »

Here is an article from a paper that has been strongly pushing the idea that Johnson was trying to generate herd immunity. This article was published straight after the press conference and there is not one mention of herd immunity in the article:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/12/uk-moves-to-delay-phase-of-coronavirus-plan

It took people picking up the wrong end of the stick on social media before the narrative from the media then switched to claiming that they were aiming for something they never said they were aiming for. Can't find a link to the video of the conference itself, but when I was watching it live there wasn't anything I got from the mention of herd immunity as anything other than a side effect that might be good if it happened.

Extremes.

One side shouts herd immunity, the other shouts no herd immunity. To say herd immunity is the key goal probably as incorrect as saying it is not a factor at all.

For me it is more in the middle, the herd immunity is ultimately needed by all countries over time. It would never be about exposing the masses in an irresponsible way. It would be a by product of how society continues to operate by managing appropriate risk.

All countries need stronger people to be allowed to continue to operate in a way that brings them into greater risk of catching the virus but not grossly over exposed risk (concerts, big football matches etc stop). But it is proportionate in response, it keeps things that have to happen like public services, shops, productions, exports, imports operating - risk of some getting the virus is greater than a lock down but is proportionate to needs of society. The most vulnerable will and are asked to stay home, take extra precautions beyond those who are asked to continue to work.

Levelling out the spike in cases in line with ability of the health services to cope are needed in all countries. There is a balance between the overall approach and UK clearly felt it could deal with its curve in a different way to Ireland.

My take on it anyway!

py

opus wrote: »

They've said it's going ahead as planned :eek:

COMRADES TO GO AHEAD AS PLANNED

Looks like they're going to see it the transfer window and then decide. Seems like a money grab imo. I'm not going to be attending, just waiting to see if there'll be a deferral or refund option.

Reg'stoy

Cork is officially delayed
http://www.corkcitymarathon.ie/

Part of me is yes!! no more training plan and the other part is no!! no more training plan. Maintenance program it is so...anyone have any links to a maintenance program?

robinph

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Cork is officially delayed
http://www.corkcitymarathon.ie/

Part of me is yes!! no more training plan and the other part is no!! no more training plan. Maintenance program it is so...anyone have any links to a maintenance program?

Is that the furthest in advance cancellation so far?

Not that there are many marathons in June, but anything pulled the plug that far out yet?

Burkie1203

robinph wrote: »

Is that the furthest in advance cancellation so far?

Not that there are many marathons in June, but anything pulled the plug that far out yet?

Women's mini Marathon in june

adrian522

With all these vents postponing, is it likely that they can all go ahead later in the year? I mean the calendar is already pretty full just from the races already scheduled.

I know organisers don't want to give refunds but realistically all these races won't get slots from AI. Are Limerick, Galway, Belfast and Dublin all going to have marathons within a moth of each other?

rovers_runner

We could have all the big Irish marathons in 2020 within 2 months yet.

Longford :30th Aug
Connemaraton :27th Sept
Limerick :4th Oct
Dublin :26th Oct

Cork - TBC


Thinking of doing the trio of Longford/Limerick/Dublin as a goal to celebrate being able to run races again should things look up by then.

adrian522

Belfast 20th September.

SuspectZero

I couldn't leave this be because I just want to show the hypocrisy in this discussion. Adrian asked earlier what a mob lynching was and for links to where it happened. A mob lynching in online terms for me is where the majority holds different standards to other opinions than their own and where any opinion not entirely in unison with them is quickly stamped down rather than addressed. sideswipes reply to my post above:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112860080&postcount=423

Two of the three thankers agreeing my post is condescending have been far more guilty than I have. I think we can all agree the most condescending word you can use is stupid like here:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112839449&postcount=347

or how about the followup:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112841763&postcount=363

Then we have this gem calling me a sockpuppet troll from another one of the thankers:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112841561&postcount=357


I realise this post is extremely childish and is attacking the posters but this is the exact same behavior any opposing or even slightly deviating opinion comes up against. The rules are different if you are not on the side of the masses, points and discussion become of little value because they are never addressed,just completely written off or attacking of the poster because it's just easier to do that. the threads become less about content and more about who is writing it and hence become a one way street to soapbox rather than discuss. I know I'll get a huge amount of hate for this and so be it as difference of opinions are what make discussion, not one way streets where everything that differs from the masses is shutdown. If your points are strong, they should stand up to debate alone anyway and it should be welcomed, two heads are better than one and all those cliches. There is no point in having a discussion forum if all you want is to hear the same opinion as yourself.

Murph_D

SuspectZero wrote: »

Has it not been proven true with the misinformation on herd immunity? it was never the official line, it was an un-fact checked rumour which should surely show that people are been manipulated by the media. I'm not blaming anyone here or taking down to anyone, I'm showing how much bs the media are spraying about and you have picked out one line out of context of the whole post to try and make it look otherwise but I'll leave it at that because I honestly dont have the energy for an argument

I'm sorry but you can't call the Herd Immunity story an "un-fact checked rumour". As I pointed out above in direct quote, the phrase was uttered on Friday (the day after that Guardian article above where there is understandably no mention of it) by a top government advisor, and widely reported (with concern) in both traditional and online media. While you are correct that misinformation is replicated and amplified through social media filter bubbles, the notion that this is what was happening in this case is simply not credible. The facts check out: "herd immunity" is a phrase that was used by the official in relation to official strategy.

Whether people were misinterpreting the intent or meaning of the statement is irrelevant - the fact is, the UK govt and their chief advisers were basing their strategy on bad numbers produced by an inappropriate model. This strategy was officially abandoned only yesterday, with the UK official advice now more in line with social distancing practices recommended everywhere else. It's good that the strategy has changed. It's also good that people (expert people) were questioning the strategy and placing pressure for for a rethink.

On a similar note, UK officials and their advisers (and one or two contributors to this thread) have also repeatedly talked about "behavioural fatigue" to justify not implementing social distancing 'too early', the thinking being that the public will soon tire of these measures and revert to dangerous practices. This assumption has been questioned by behavioural scientists, and we have yet to see the evidence on which the government and their advisers were basing their thinking. It's a moot point now, of course, as the strategy is being jettisoned.

The greater point is that critical evaluation of state policy, and the media coverage it attracts, is a good thing.

IvoryTower

Okay hold on there pal, i wasnt involved in your argument. I merely pointed out that the original poster glacial_pace71 decided he had had enough and wasnt posting in the thread anymore, than you magically appeared with a new account to defend him until you decided you weren't posting in the thread anymore. Are you telling me this doesn't look fishy at all?

SuspectZero

IvoryTower wrote: »

Okay hold on there pal, i wasnt involved in your argument. I merely pointed out that the original poster glacial_pace71 decided he had had enough and wasnt posting in the thread anymore, than you magically appeared with a new account to defend him until you decided you weren't posting in the thread anymore. Are you telling me this doesn't look fishy at all?

I've had a log here for nearly a month, my account didn't magically appear mid thread. And what does it matter when my account was opened, it's the content of the posts that should be up for debate, not the poster

IvoryTower

Sure its probably a coincidence, welcome to boards, good to see you settled in quickly

SuspectZero

IvoryTower wrote: »

Sure its probably a coincidence, welcome to boards, good to see you settled in quickly

Point proven, I give a slight bit of defence to another poster who is not in the majority, get a snarky personal jibe saying I have to be a sockpuppet because its unbelieveable that I could be backing up a different opinion even slightly. No wonder minority opinions run a mile and probably new posters too. I already told you I was a re-reg too

OOnegative

SuspectZero wrote: »

Point proven, I give a slight bit of defence to another poster who is not in the majority, get a snarky personal jibe saying I have to be a sockpuppet because its unbelieveable that I could be backing up a different opinion even slightly. No wonder minority opinions run a mile and probably new posters too. I already told you I was a re-reg too. want more:

Fusitive
El Caballo
Safiri
Netwerk Errer

Ya forgot Notwork Error!!

IvoryTower

Okay okay calm down, as you were! Some people disagree with you, its not a big deal.

SuspectZero

IvoryTower wrote: »

Okay okay calm down, as you were! Some people disagree with you, its not a big deal.

I honestly don't mind if they disagree with me or not, I'm just hoping their can be equal and fair discussion that is calm and points are addressed rather than shotdown.

Apoligies for dragging the thread this way, it's just something that gets under my skin a bit with online discussions.

opus

rovers_runner wrote: »

We could have all the big Irish marathons in 2020 within 2 months yet.

Longford :30th Aug
Connemaraton :27th Sept
Limerick :4th Oct
Dublin :26th Oct

Cork - TBC


Thinking of doing the trio of Longford/Limerick/Dublin as a goal to celebrate being able to run races again should things look up by then.

Sept 6th for Cork was what I read but who knows I guess. Had a look through the list of stuff I'd entered & the only one that's left is the Lap of the Gap marathon on May 23rd. Fairly (99.9%) sure that's going to cancel/postpone as well but not a big deal with all the other things going on. Let's just hope we're all healthy come Autumn and able to take part in some of the rearranged events.

Swashbuckler

Almost got it back to talking about running events in relation to Covid19.

Almost lads... Almost... Hard luck.

rovers_runner

opus wrote: »

Sept 6th for Cork was what I read but who knows I guess. Had a look through the list of stuff I'd entered & the only one that's left is the Lap of the Gap marathon on May 23rd. Fairly (99.9%) sure that's going to cancel/postpone as well but not a big deal with all the other things going on. Let's just hope we're all healthy come Autumn and able to take part in some of the rearranged events.

The vast majority that have cancelled or postponed have been upfront and I'm fine with them not being able to offer refunds.
The only one I've noticed being particularly vague is the GIR which being organised by AI surprised me to see, although there is a one liner about it being postponed you can still enter.
They must be waiting on a permit for the park on a later date.

God help them but you couldn't invest in a date anytime
this year with any confidence at the moment.


I would think though in general we will reach a point in the late summer where if things haven't tailed off then govts will have to strike a balance between returning to normal and restricted measures...
I'd say late July or Aug would be a time you'd expect to know where we stand for the remainder of the year.

robinph

Murph_D wrote: »

... and we have yet to see the evidence on which the government and their advisers were basing their thinking. It's a moot point now, of course, as the strategy is being jettisoned.

Here you go:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

There are a lot of different scenarios presented in there, but closing schools isn't rated as the most useful thing and is a potentially detrimental action to take. Also, if you close the schools you may get through until the summer, but then get hit with an even bigger outbreak in November under one of their models. Another alternative they modelled was shutting everything down for three months, opening thing up again, then shutting down again etc all based on the number of beds available in hospital at that moment...but that would have to continue for another 2 years and you basically have zero schooling during that time.

It is not a simple thing and it's going to get very, very bad.