Gardaí: Provo Army Council oversees PIRA & SF

theguzman

Peace process designed to heal and move society forward. Sellout corrupt Politicians get angry when a new generation hands them their marching orders. immediately returns to the past themselves. Stuff like this will only embolden the electorate more, his father was a Senior RUC officer and killed by the IRA in 1989 so he has plenty of axes to grind it seems. I could see thousands more voting for Sinn Fein after things like this now.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

This thread is yet another wonderful insight into the thought processes of SF supporters. They see the problem here as ‘the establishment’, the media, and the fact that Harris is ‘one of them ones’, and not that SF has links to shadowy figures in West Belfast who style themselves as the leadership of a criminal organisation.

It’s a very different moral compass.

Did you just hear about a SF/IRA connection today? Your monocle must have fallen into your cornflakes.
Personally I do not dispute a connection between the IRA and SF.
For me I'm disappointed in the media backing FF/FG led PR to try disenfranchise the Irish electorate from their willing move away from the cancer of FF/FG politics.
It's two separate things. The IRA and relationship with Sinn Fein being one thing. People can make up their own mind and did in the election. That's the democratic honest way.
The other thing is the media, to the glee of sour grape cronies FF/FG dragging up stories designed to damage a party who got as much support as FF and more than FG. FG are sick. No doubt. And very ungracious in defeat. To be expected IMO. However, this biased media was unexpected. Where were the stories on housing, health, the NCH over run etc. during the election? In fact where were the Justice, Housing and health ministers for that matter?
Trying to undermine the will of the electorate says all you need to know about the moral compass of FG.

smurgen

I think Leo’s tweet today is a low point of recent years. I thought he reached the bottom when he called the consultants in the Waterford hospitals who whistle blew about bodies abandoned on trolleys liars but this is a new low.

dxhound2005

Bowie wrote: »

Did you just hear about a SF/IRA connection today? Your monocle must have fallen into your cornflakes.
Personally I do not dispute a connection between the IRA and SF.

What is the nature of that connection?

Die Hard 2019

Bowie wrote: »

Did you just hear about a SF/IRA connection today? Your monocle must have fallen into your cornflakes.
Personally I do not dispute a connection between the IRA and SF.
For me I'm disappointed in the media backing FF/FG led PR to try disenfranchise the Irish electorate from their willing move away from the cancer of FF/FG politics.
It's two separate things. The IRA and relationship with Sinn Fein being one thing. People can make up their own mind and did in the election. That's the democratic honest way.
The other thing is the media, to the glee of sour grape cronies FF/FG dragging up stories designed to damage a party who got as much support as FF and more than FG. FG are sick. No doubt. And very ungracious in defeat. To be expected IMO. However, this biased media was unexpected. Where were the stories on housing, health, the NCH over run etc. during the election? In fact where were the Justice, Housing and health ministers for that matter?
Trying to undermine the will of the electorate says all you need to know about the moral compass of FG.

Do you dispute the connection between the IRA and the protection of criminal organisations in return for a payment ?

blueythebear

Im quite surprised at some of the posts on this saying that the media is carrying out a hit job on sinn fein. It is fact that the party has strong connections to a terrorist organisation. Its a fact that the same irganisation calls the shots in the party.

Its incredibly simplistic of people to vote for sinn fein to give two fingers to FFG.

Many of sinn feins former comrades are involved in wholesale criminality in the border areas. A vote for sinn fein is s vote for that lawlessness to continue and escalate. If i was a member of the board for the quinn group for example, i would be very very worried about sinn fein entering government.

James Brown

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What is the nature of that connection?

blueythebear wrote: »

Im quite surprised at some of the posts on this saying that the media is carrying out a hit job on sinn fein. It is fact that the party has strong connections to a terrorist organisation. Its a fact that the same irganisation calls the shots in the party.

Its incredibly simplistic of people to vote for sinn fein to give two fingers to FFG.

Many of sinn feins former comrades are involved in wholesale criminality in the border areas. A vote for sinn fein is s vote for that lawlessness to continue and escalate. If i was a member of the board for the quinn group for example, i would be very very worried about sinn fein entering government.

I reckon former members of the now defucnt IRA are still alive and as long as they are folk like FF and FG will use the IRA to try divert from their poor political record, especially in election time as they flounder.
I also reckon these old IRA are involved in politics, which IMO was the whole reason people felt the need for the IRA. Representation. Now, times have changed and we had the peace process, but some of these people would still be around and still interested in politics and giving a voice to their community.
Saying that, I think it's quite possible and I have no problem with, ex-IRA folk being involved with SF as regards policy.
Furthermore I don't think anyone would be surprised by this.
ML says the IRA are gone. FF/FF/DUP/Britian etc. all agree on this as per the GFA.
Are the same people still around, yes. Makes sense they'd be involved in politics.
FF/FG need cut the crap and the media need feel ashamed IMO.

It would be 'incredibly simplistic of people to vote for sinn fein to give two fingers to FFG' if that were the case. They could have gone SD/Green/PBP to merely give FF/FG the two fingers.

ChikiChiki

Annabella1 wrote: »

I believe the Gardai 100%

The independent force for law and order in this country (not ‘state’)

Independent..... Now that is a good one.

statesaver

Could you imagine the look on every ones faces if the PIRA army council solved the housing and health crises.

Wouldn't that be a turn up for the books

smurgen

blueythebear wrote: »

Im quite surprised at some of the posts on this saying that the media is carrying out a hit job on sinn fein. It is fact that the party has strong connections to a terrorist organisation. Its a fact that the same irganisation calls the shots in the party.

Its incredibly simplistic of people to vote for sinn fein to give two fingers to FFG.

Many of sinn feins former comrades are involved in wholesale criminality in the border areas. A vote for sinn fein is s vote for that lawlessness to continue and escalate. If i was a member of the board for the quinn group for example, i would be very very worried about sinn fein entering government.

So many media outlets, FG members and the head of the Gardaí had the same story posted across twitter and websites at the same time and you don’t think that’s suspicious? This type of behavior is like something you’d see from trumps whitehouse. Fine Gael are done for and I think this will go down as one of their bigger mistakes.

dxhound2005

Bowie wrote: »

I reckon former members of the now defucnt IRA are still alive and as long as they are folk like FF and FG will use the IRA to try divert from their poor political record, especially in election time as they flounder.
I also reckon these old IRA are involved in politics, which IMO was the whole reason people felt the need for the IRA. Representation. Now, times have changed and we had the peace process, but some of these people would still be around and still interested in politics and giving a voice to their community.
Saying that, I think it's quite possible and I have no problem with, ex-IRA folk being involved with SF as regards policy.
Furthermore I don't think anyone would be surprised by this.
ML says the IRA are gone. FF/FF/DUP/Britian etc. all agree on this as per the GFA.
Are the same people still around, yes. Makes sense they'd be involved in politics.
FF/FG need cut the crap and the media need feel ashamed IMO.

It would be 'incredibly simplistic of people to vote for sinn fein to give two fingers to FFG' if that were the case. They could have gone SD/Green/PBP to merely give FF/FG the two fingers.

There is more to it than that if you accept the security forces assessment.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR15000545

Both assessments raise deeply troubling issues about PIRA and the legacy of paramilitarism.

This is first and foremost manifested in this jurisdiction by the so-called ‘dissident’ republican groups and their ongoing campaigns of terrorism. While these groups are separate from and at odds with PIRA, they have their origins in PIRA. They continue to present a real and persistent security threat and they are inextricably linked to organised crime to fund their criminal, anti-democratic aims. They seek to emulate a culture of lawlessness which PIRA tried to create in the border areas and the consequences of that are seen in tragic events even to this day. It is clear from the assessment that An Garda Síochána has had considerable success in bringing members of these groups to justice.

A second aspect of the Provisional IRA’s brutal legacy is the involvement in organised crime of a significant number of people who have been associated with PIRA, who, as the Garda Commissioner, points out, are involved in organised crime, make full use of the reputations which they acquired as members of PIRA and do not hesitate to use their previous terror tactics. These people will continue to be pursued relentlessly. The Garda and Revenue authorities and the Criminal Assets Bureau have made substantial progress in tackling the activities and targeting the assets of these people. Indeed, the assessment notes that since the establishment of the Criminal Assets Bureau in 1996, a total of €28 million has been remitted to the Irish Exchequer arising from actions and assessments in respect of over fifty individuals who have had connections or associations to PIRA in the past.

ChikiChiki

splinter65 wrote: »

What does this even mean?!? Official information is not helpful? How?

A heavy portion, I'm 50% + of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gaels media strategy across all platforms has been clearly weighted againsg Sinn Féin.

It has shown that it cost them seats in the election. They are still persisting with the same media strategy post election which will ultimately push them further from their aims.

Think Trump and Brexit. The same thing. Every attack on Sinn Féin is a facepalm moment because it is an own goal each time. Reverse psychology at its finest.

Strategically they would be better keeping quiet instead of engaging in some kind of collective madness ala Harris and Varadkar on Twitter.

If anything it really hammers home the lack of ability to read the political landscape from our outgoing leaders.

Huntergonzo

Bowie wrote: »

I reckon former members of the now defucnt IRA are still alive and as long as they are folk like FF and FG will use the IRA to try divert from their poor political record, especially in election time as they flounder.
I also reckon these old IRA are involved in politics, which IMO was the whole reason people felt the need for the IRA. Representation. Now, times have changed and we had the peace process, but some of these people would still be around and still interested in politics and giving a voice to their community.
Saying that, I think it's quite possible and I have no problem with, ex-IRA folk being involved with SF as regards policy.
Furthermore I don't think anyone would be surprised by this.
ML says the IRA are gone. FF/FF/DUP/Britian etc. all agree on this as per the GFA.
Are the same people still around, yes. Makes sense they'd be involved in politics.
FF/FG need cut the crap and the media need feel ashamed IMO.

It would be 'incredibly simplistic of people to vote for sinn fein to give two fingers to FFG' if that were the case. They could have gone SD/Green/PBP to merely give FF/FG the two fingers.

"Saying that, I think it's quite possible and I have no problem with, ex-IRA folk being involved with SF as regards policy."

That's a worrying statement in my opinion. Which IRA folk exactly? Those who were involved in the Omagh bombing? or perhaps those who beat Paul Quinn to death with iron bars in a secluded farm yard?

blueythebear

smurgen wrote: »

So many media outlets, FG members and the head of the Gardaí had the same story posted across twitter and websites at the same time and you don’t think that’s suspicious? This type of behavior is like something you’d see from trumps whitehouse. Fine Gael are done for and I think this will go down as one of their bigger mistakes.

I dont use twitter but i imagine people retweet news stories that are topical and relevant to them. No surprise that politicians and gardai woild tweet this.

There is nothing suspicious about heavy coverage of a relevant story. Thats conspiracy theory stuff.

dxhound2005

ChikiChiki wrote: »

A heavy portion, I'm 50% + of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gaels media strategy across all platforms has been clearly weighted againsg Sinn Féin.

It has shown that it cost them seats in the election. They are still persisting with the same media strategy post election which will ultimately push them further from their aims.

Think Trump and Brexit. The same thing. Every attack on Sinn Féin is a facepalm moment because it is an own goal each time. Reverse psychology at its finest.

Strategically they would be better keeping quiet instead of engaging in some kind of collective madness.

If anything it really hammers home the lack of ability to read the political landscape from our outgoing leaders.

That does not add up put against the stated reasons that people voted they way they did. As widely surveyed, and widely reported on in the media.

ChikiChiki

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That does not add up put against the stated reasons that people voted they way they did. As widely surveyed, and widely reported on in the media.

Health and Housing were the main reasons by a stretch no doubt but not the only ones.

Montage of Feck

Isn't it better to have them in the dail with the other snakes than out in the wild planning all kinds of dastardly acts ?

efanton

In my opinion its absolutely disgraceful behaviour by a Garda Commissioner.

The TD's, senators and councillors of this country know full well they have no constitutional or legal right to interfere with the judicial system.
Likewise the Garda commissioner knows full well that he has no right whatsoever to interfere with the political process or those elected to represent the country. Yet Drew Harris has done exactly that, its utterly disgraceful and a dangerous precedent to be setting. Whether what he says is true or not is totally irrelevant.

But if what he says is true, why after 4 years since the PSNI assessment was published, has there not been one single person charged with either belonging to the Provisional IRA or directing terrorist activities for the Provisional IRA?
Is he actually saying that he is so bad at his job that he or the Gardai are unable to perform their duties, or is that there is no evidence bar hearsay that could be presented to a court in which case what he has just done really deserves nothing less than a demand for his instant resignation.

I haven't seen the evidence or the reports that Drew Harris has seen so it would be irresponsible of me to make judgement as to whether a Provisional IRA council still exists and whether that council has any influence whatsoever on political parties in the Republic of Ireland. Its important they we recognise those as TWO different issues.

What I can say is without doubt Drew Harris has stepped far beyond his remit, and has acted in a way that no Police officer or member of the Judiciary should. We would (or should) be all be appalled at a TD interfering with a court case, we should be equally appalled at a Garda officer interfering with our political processes. In both cases resignations should be considered.

James Brown

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is more to it than that if you accept the security forces assessment.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR15000545

Both assessments raise deeply troubling issues about PIRA and the legacy of paramilitarism.

This is first and foremost manifested in this jurisdiction by the so-called ‘dissident’ republican groups and their ongoing campaigns of terrorism. While these groups are separate from and at odds with PIRA, they have their origins in PIRA. They continue to present a real and persistent security threat and they are inextricably linked to organised crime to fund their criminal, anti-democratic aims. They seek to emulate a culture of lawlessness which PIRA tried to create in the border areas and the consequences of that are seen in tragic events even to this day. It is clear from the assessment that An Garda Síochána has had considerable success in bringing members of these groups to justice.

A second aspect of the Provisional IRA’s brutal legacy is the involvement in organised crime of a significant number of people who have been associated with PIRA, who, as the Garda Commissioner, points out, are involved in organised crime, make full use of the reputations which they acquired as members of PIRA and do not hesitate to use their previous terror tactics. These people will continue to be pursued relentlessly. The Garda and Revenue authorities and the Criminal Assets Bureau have made substantial progress in tackling the activities and targeting the assets of these people. Indeed, the assessment notes that since the establishment of the Criminal Assets Bureau in 1996, a total of €28 million has been remitted to the Irish Exchequer arising from actions and assessments in respect of over fifty individuals who have had connections or associations to PIRA in the past.

Of course they do. So what? The IRA signed up to the GFA. It's not like SF will be making senators out of these dissidents. They've nothing to do with them. FG/Lab have more dealings with dissidents than SF.

Of course they do. So what? People who were involved in criminality for the IRA have gone into business for themselves. Themselves. Not SF, not the IRA.

I don't believe any talk of criminality should be assigned to the IRA or even less so the Sinn Fein party.
What we have here is a lot of blarney. It shouldn't be entertained IMO. We could be getting it used for generations. Fair enough. Working well for FG...maybe not.

gormdubhgorm

Gooey Looey wrote: »

What's with the digging up of 5 year old special branch mi5 reports and the Garda commissioner commenting on political matters during an election. Smells like dirty tricks by the establishment.

What is all this establishment guff. SF are the establishment in NI they are trying to be a serious political party for a change in DE so serious questions have to be asked. As they would with any party who has an army council structure behind it.

Come on call a spade a spade and stop trying to make out it is a targeted agenda against SF. These are a crowd who want to run the whole island of Ireland.

Ok, Jacinta and Brittany etc who voted for Denise Mitchell in Dublin Bay North might only see the promise of cheap houses before thier eyes. They probably were never even in NI.
But it does lead to larger questions and has the potential to undo decades of peace on the island, and a decade of recovery in the ROI.

There is a whole undercurrent to SF with many of thier politicians and thier supporters. That does not exist with any other party.

1) Army Council calling the tune
2) Anointed leaders and no public debate on successors
3) Attracting disillusioned far right voters - all the Jew comments show the true colours of many in SF despite what thier website says. The implied racism of Holohan etc. The sly racism of Cronin AOS etc
4) The general culture of SF you only have to look at A. O'Snodaigh and his extended family to see the attitude of the SF circle - spy rings in DE, f'n and blinding gardai out of it, and throwing pint glasses - using SF as a threat!

Yet all of this is normal and SF should not be questioned on it?
Why is that?
Any normal party would have no problem with fixing thier party.
The whole culture of SF stinks and those who support it are used to the smell, while others have hold thier nose.

ILoveYourVibes

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

From today’s Irish Times: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/harris-agrees-with-psni-that-army-council-still-oversees-both-sinn-féin-and-ira-1.4180689



So that’s the official stance of An Gardai, the PSNI, and the UK government.

I wonder how people feel about our government being potentially overseen by the Provisional IRA Army Council.

All the experts agree that, as Gerry Adams put it, “they haven’t gone away you know”.

The thing is. If this is true. You have to prove how its true.

You can't just say it.

So how do the IRA army council control SF?? I mean does this happen at the Ardheis?? Do they ring Mary Lou and give coded messages?

How does this happen?
Who in SF knows this happens?

Where is the proof?

I mean you have to help the people who vote SF 9not me) to understand how this happens if you want them to understand it.

I am not doubting Harris' intentions or honor as a guard btw. But we need proof now they are getting serious votes.

THere are other things with sf ...like how they keep the same leader for decades.

dxhound2005

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Health and Housing were the main reasons by a stretch no doubt but not the only ones.

Not the ones you said.

Health 32%
Housing/homelessness 26%
Pension age 8%
Jobs 6%
Climate change 6%
Taxation 4%
Crime 3%
Childcare 3%
Immigration 1%
Brexit 1%
"Something else" 6%
"No response" 5%

James Brown

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Isn't it better to have them in the dail with the other snakes than out in the wild planning all kinds of dastardly acts ?

James Brown

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not the ones you said.

Health 32%
Housing/homelessness 26%
Pension age 8%
Jobs 6%
Climate change 6%
Taxation 4%
Crime 3%
Childcare 3%
Immigration 1%
Brexit 1%
"Something else" 6%
"No response" 5%

So FG should be able to figure out why the public left them in droves...but no, attack the shinners, that'll help the public forget health, housing, insurance etc. right?

corks finest

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

From today’s Irish Times: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/harris-agrees-with-psni-that-army-council-still-oversees-both-sinn-féin-and-ira-1.4180689


So that’s the official stance of An Gardai, the PSNI, and the UK government.

I wonder how people feel about our government being potentially overseen by the Provisional IRA Army Council.

All the experts agree that, as Gerry Adams put it, “they haven’t gone away you know”.

Much the same as they should feel about an RUC man in charge of our police force

Gatling

smurgen wrote: »

This type of behavior is like something you’d see from trumps whitehouse. Fine Gael are done for and I think this will go down as one of their bigger mistakes.

But yet we have the SF supporters calling fake news on anything to do with them ,
I'm sure similar to trump supporters they would more than happy to spread nonsense stories and attack anyone who doesn't support the partie as blue shirts or Nazis in the hope that they are the only voice heard,

Actually on media all throughout the election on social media the amount on anti anyone but SF posts was crazy lots of new pages saying this td was suspected of fraud or that td did this and brown enveloped it away within 24 hours of the election results all the pages and posts seems to have been deleted ,

dxhound2005

Bowie wrote: »

So FG should be able to figure out why the public left them in droves...but no, attack the shinners, that'll help the public forget health, housing, insurance etc. right?

It shows up the Shinners supporters persecution complexes that they credit anti SF press stories for turning voters into their camp. When the voters did not even think about that.

James Brown

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The thing is. If this is true. You have to prove how its true.

You can't just say it.

So how do the IRA army council control SF?? I mean does this happen at the Ardheis?? Do they ring Mary Lou and give coded messages?

How does this happen?
Who in SF knows this happens?

Where is the proof?

I mean you have to help the people who vote SF 9not me) to understand how this happens if you want them to understand it.

I am not doubting Harris' intentions or honor as a guard btw. But we need proof now they are getting serious votes.

THere are other things with sf ...like how they keep the same leader for decades.

Ten minute warning, to change policy on hospital beds... :rolleyes:
That said Harris oversaw more deaths than ML. Not being flippant. People are living or dying based on Harris' **** show between cervicheck and hospital trolleys and waiting lists. He's some neck.

gormdubhgorm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Mary Lou McDonald has never heard of the IRA

The interesting thing about Mary Lou is that she is not even the most republican in her own family. Her sister Joanne was in éirígí.

James Brown

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It shows up the Shinners supporters persecution complexes that they credit anti SF press stories for turning voters into their camp. When the voters did not even think about that.

I don't think you are being genuine.
It was the Garda passing out. They decided to ask Harris about a report from 5 years ago and make it front page news. If you think that's mere happenstance you are truly naive.
I gave the SD's my number 1 as I did last time, however I fully support a SF led government over and above FF/FG.