FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

RandomViewer

mattser wrote: »

Default or not, they took it on and are doing a bloody good job in the circumstanes.
Anyway, I'm off to work.
That's something people do when they don't have all day to whinge on the internet.
Ciao.

Boris Johnson brought in supports in the UK, they had to follow with something better, basically FGs approach is a game of one upmanship against the Tory fool.
When this is over the mistakes made will be more obvious.
The nursing home deaths will end Harris and Holohan at a minimum.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Leo and his caretaker ministers are there by default, not by choice.

Been covered multiple times on this thread already, there's not a chance in hell you missed it either.

As for the blueshirts comment that wasn't meant as a "dig" and if you took it as one - perhaps the internet isn't for you.

They are there by default because of the failure of Sinn Fein and others to step up to the plate.

Having "lost" the election, as called by you and others on here, they could have just stepped back and not done their jobs. Instead, they have continued to step up and run the country through its greatest ever external crisis, while the likes of Mary-Lou have hid themselves away.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

They are there by default because of the failure of Sinn Fein and others to step up to the plate.

Having "lost" the election, as called by you and others on here, they could have just stepped back and not done their jobs.

The sitting government are mandated constitutionally to remain in place until there is a new administration.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is this the peculiar meaning of 'cast iron' that had all the major media in this country saying that Michael Martin had opened the door to talks with SF less than 24 hours after the election?
The 'cast iron' committment the same man gave to 'Not' go in with FG?

Well how does that affect my statement that SF are the only party that has a majority voting for parties committed to working against it?

Now: do you have a link to where Independent TD's said they would not go in with SF?

I dont have a link to the tooth fairy fact but plenty evidence

And what would their word be worth, when the power swap parties play sleeveen politics about what they will not or will do?

Oh you mean like MLM accusing FG and FF of locking them out of government meaning she needs one of them and at the other side of her mouth saying their involvement would be a disaster or not what the country wants or some such?
Thats politics

Also politics is that SF are the only party in the Dáil that a majority wont work with

It's the snubee that usually has to look inward for the reasons

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Well how does that affect my statement that SF are the only party that has a majority voting for parties committed to working against it?


I dont have a link to the tooth fairy fact but plenty evidence


Oh you mean like MLM accusing FG and FF of locking them out of government meaning she needs one of them and at the other side of her mouth saying their involvement would be a disaster or not what the country wants or some such?
Thats politics

Also politics is that SF are the only party in the Dáil that a majority wont work with

It's the snubee that usually has to look inward for the reasons

So nothing just more waffle.

You can no more make that claim than you can claim people voted for FF because they said they wouldn't go in with FG.

The sleeveen politics of the power swap two since the foundation of the state has seen to that. The truth is nobody trusts a word out of their mouths before and election. It is the stuff of parody and comedy now.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So nothing just more waffle.

You can no more make that claim than you can claim people voted for FF because they said they wouldn't go in with FG.

The sleeveen politics of the power swap two since the foundation of the state has seen to that. The truth is nobody trusts a word out of their mouths before and election. It is the stuff of parody and comedy now.

I see,you don't like the fact that SF are the snubee party and want to blame everyone else
Not a great start

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

I see,you don't like the fact that SF are the snubee party and want to blame everyone else
Not a great start

Who am I 'blaming'?

You are taking comfort from inferring something from a vote that is not provable. The history of the state shows that parties that promise something before an election, immediately go back on that promise. It is one of the most singular jokes about election campaigns here. Michael Martin, opening the door to SF less than 24 hours after the election and now sitting down forming a government with FG when he adamantly said he wouldn't do it with either, being the latest installment of a familiar stand-up routine. Laughable really.

Well done you!

markodaly

satguy wrote: »

FG were in power for 8 or 9 years,, and did nothing, sweet FA.

Ah, see here you show your true colors.

FG presided over the best economy in the EU, which brought the jobless rate down from 14.2 % to circa 5%.
Brought the deficit under control and widened the tax base.
Called, backed, and oversaw two tricky referendums in SSM and Abortion.
Brexit, which by all intents and purposes played a blinder.
Among others...

There are of course other issues, namely with housing, and no they are not perfect but to state they did 'Sweet FA' is just Eamon Dunphy 'Ronaldo is not a real player' nonsense.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who am I 'blaming'?

You are taking comfort from inferring something from a vote that is not provable. The history of the state shows that parties that promise something before an election, immediately go back on that promise. It is one of the most singular jokes about election campaigns here. Michael Martin, opening the door to SF less than 24 hours after the election and now sitting down forming a government with FG when he adamantly said he wouldn't do it with either, being the latest installment of a familiar stand-up routine. Laughable really.

Well done you!

Well all I can say is 2 things really,FG were true to their word and at all times left the door open to bitter rival FF,which was quite magnanimous
And 2,SF are the only party a majority of people voted for parties or TD's opposed to being in a SF coalition
Your denial of the latter is belief in the tooth fairy

As the snubee, its time SF went back to the drawing board and started being inclusive towards Fine Gael voters,it's going to take time

markodaly

mattser wrote: »

Leo was prepared to stand up and govern. And then step on hot coals when a pandemic arrived. That's a challenge.
Your blueshirt dig and your fake smileys don't hide your hurt btw.

This is the difference. I have no idea why people refer to Leo's comment about being in opposition as some insult to throw at him, when most other parties are literally scared out of their lives to take the hot seat of power.

The truth and fact of it is, that Leo is still the caretaker Taoiseach and has Taoiseach for the past three years.

He has occupied the hot seat, player the senior hurling and taken the body shots that comes with being in power, and he is still there, and in the driving seat to be in the next government as well, unless there is an election... which will suit him and FG perfectly..... so I think he is doing OK and may well be happy all things considered.

This is THE key difference between Leo and FG any many other parties, and I am pointing the finger at the likes of the SD's, SF, PBP, and maybe the Greens who save their best performance for an RTE studio rather than governing.

I hear Brid Smith on RTE radio wishing for a left-wing government where she hopes FF and FG don't do a deal, yet where is this left-wing government. Where are the joint policy papers, where are the meetings to discuss this left-wing agenda, where are the joint budget submissions?
Christ Paul Murphy couldn't agree with Solidarity and PBP so he split, what hopes to the likes of PBP have in making a deal with SF, the SD's, Labour and the Greens?

Nowhere, nada, nothing, does not exist, missing, never started.... so what has SHE, Brid Smith been doing the past 100 days to try and affect the change SHE wants in government?

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

Leo and his caretaker ministers are there by default, not by choice.

Of course its a choice. SF et al, CHOOSE to leave him there by not voting for an alternative.

To say SF et al have absolutely no option at all is wrong.

125 > 81 > 35

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Well all I can say is 2 things really,FG were true to their word and at all times left the door open to bitter rival FF,which was quite magnanimous
And 2,SF are the only party a majority of people voted for parties or TD's opposed to being in a SF coalition
Your denial of the latter is belief in the tooth fairy

As the snubee, its time SF went back to the drawing board and started being inclusive towards Fine Gael voters,it's going to take time

FG, at all times know they cannot get into power without the acquiescence/co-operation/connivance (call it what you may) in some way of FF. Either in C&S or coalition.

New realities. That they grasped that new reality is no major kudos, common sense really.

I think what happens next in terms of the spread of power is up to the electorate. Will they tolerate FG/FF remaining as the same but separate party's or will they wipe one or the other out.
The fall in the combined vote share from a high of 84% to what it is today, kind of indicates the inevitable to me.

RandomViewer

markodaly wrote: »

Ah, see here you show your true colors.

FG presided over the best economy in the EU, which brought the jobless rate down from 14.2 % to circa 5%.
Brought the deficit under control and widened the tax base.
Called, backed, and oversaw two tricky referendums in SSM and Abortion.
Brexit, which by all intents and purposes played a blinder.
Among others...

There are of course other issues, namely with housing, and no they are not perfect but to state they did 'Sweet FA' is just Eamon Dunphy 'Ronaldo is not a real player' nonsense.

Someone writes me a shopping list, I go to the shop and get all on the list, jeez I'm great?
All the stuff from EU they did, the other stuff, Irish water, Regency shooting, Garda corruption, Grace not so much. Basically if constantly supervised FG will work in the interests of the country, once unsupervised they descend into chaos. No leadership qualities, just drones to other masters

markodaly

RandomViewer wrote: »

Someone writes me a shopping list, I go to the shop and get all on the list, jeez I'm great?
All the stuff from EU they did, the other stuff, Irish water, Regency shooting, Garda corruption, Grace not so much. Basically if constantly supervised FG will work in the interests of the country, once unsupervised they descend into chaos. No leadership qualities, just drones to other masters

That's an odd one to pin on FG, we had gangland crime before FG and we will have it after FG.

Now if one wants to tackle the root cause of this i.e. legalise drugs then let's have that conversation. SF is certainly not advocating that path.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The sitting government are mandated constitutionally to remain in place until there is a new administration.

Yes, they have to step in and do the job because none of the rest of them are willing or able to step up and take it on.

Mary-Lou's disappearing act when the sh!t hit the fan being the most obvious example.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, they have to step in and do the job because none of the rest of them are willing or able to step up and take it on.

Mary-Lou's disappearing act when the sh!t hit the fan being the most obvious example.

No blanch...they had to do the job. They had no choice.

And again the use of MLMD's illness to criticise her. Pathetic.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG, at all times know they cannot get into power without the acquiescence/co-operation/connivance (call it what you may) in some way of FF. Either in C&S or coalition.

New realities. That they grasped that new reality is no major kudos, common sense really.

I think what happens next in terms of the spread of power is up to the electorate. Will they tolerate FG/FF remaining as the same but separate party's or will they wipe one or the other out.
The fall in the combined vote share from a high of 84% to what it is today, kind of indicates the inevitable to me.

Of course FG's only path to government is coalition, that's not news,its been the case forever almost and since 1989 also for FF
The issue as I see it for SF is that they are being snubbed by the majority of the electorate in such a way that theres no Avenue to government available for them
They need to examine ways out of that predicament
Relying on the left portion of any available protest vote won't do
FG have workable options, even if they'd prefer not to have to take them

One things for sure,things have changed

RandomViewer

Mortelaro wrote: »

Of course FG's only path to government is coalition, that's not news,its been the case forever almost and since 1989 also for FF
The issue as I see it for SF is that they are being snubbed by the majority of the electorate in such a way that theres no Avenue to government available for them
They need to examine ways out of that predicament
Relying on the left portion of any available protest vote won't do
FG have workable options, even if they'd prefer not to have to take them

One things for sure,things have changed

A lot of FF voters would have had no issue with SF coalition, the electorate didn't snub SF a percentage of FF parliamentary party did,

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Of course FG's only path to government is coalition, that's not news,its been the case forever almost and since 1989 also for FF
The issue as I see it for SF is that they are being snubbed by the majority of the electorate in such a way that theres no Avenue to government available for them
They need to examine ways out of that predicament
Relying on the left portion of any available protest vote won't do
FG have workable options, even if they'd prefer not to have to take them

One things for sure,things have changed

This is nonsense extrapolating.

The 'electorate' clearly don't care what a political party says before an election about coalitions. They are looking at a party that vowed not to go into coalition with FG actually around a table negotiating it. And it isn't the first time that has happened...it's a national political joke/trope now it has happened so often.

Edgware

RandomViewer wrote: »

A lot of FF voters would have had no issue with SF coalition, the electorate didn't snub SF a percentage of FF parliamentary party did,

If these government talks break down Martin could go back to the Parliamentary Party, discuss and seek permission to talk to SF. ( Easy to make a case for doing it inthe national interest)
Then a FF SF Soc Dems government could be on the cards. Have a little deal with McDonald to sideline loo lahs like Ellis etc and give decent lads like Brian Stanley a chance

RandomViewer

Edgware wrote: »

If these government talks break down Martin could go back to the Parliamentary Party, discuss and seek permission to talk to SF. ( Easy to make a case for doing it inthe national interest)
Then a FF SF Soc Dems government could be on the cards. Have a little deal with McDonald to sideline loo lahs like Ellis etc and give decent lads like Brian Stanley a chance

At this stage Martin and the sidekick McGrath would have to be replaced for any new negotiations, Too much said

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is nonsense extrapolating.

The 'electorate' clearly don't care what a political party says before an election about coalitions. They are looking at a party that vowed not to go into coalition with FG actually around a table negotiating it. And it isn't the first time that has happened...it's a national political joke/trope now it has happened so often.

Vowed is a strong word,have you a link to where it was used or are you relying on pre election guff similar to most parties manifesto guff that don't make it into programme's for government?


Fact of the matter is,FF leadership have the scope to ask their members if they want to change their relationship with FG
That's where the decision is made

2nd Fact of the matter is,a majority of the Dáil voted in by a majority of the voters are snubbing SF before they'd snub FG
It's a simple fact
As Snubee, SF have to look at why

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

Vowed is a strong word,have you a link to where it was used or are you relying on pre election guff similar to most parties manifesto guff that don't make it into programme's for government?


Fact of the matter is,FF leadership have the scope to ask their members if they want to change their relationship with FG
That's where the decision is made

2nd Fact of the matter is,a majority of the Dáil voted in by a majority of the voters are snubbing SF before they'd snub FG
It's a simple fact
As Snubee, SF have to look at why

https://twitter.com/BarryMcColgan/status/1250168590243954688?s=09

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Vowed is a strong word,have you a link to where it was used or are you relying on pre election guff similar to most parties manifesto guff that don't make it into programme's for government?

Vowed, promised, use whatever word you like. FF said they would not gointo coalition with FG several times. Yet, here we are. Once again, a pre-election vow/promise/pledge cast aside.

Fact of the matter is,FF leadership have the scope to ask their members if they want to change their relationship with FG
That's where the decision is made

No different to the situation with SF, we know some members have no issue with it.

2nd Fact of the matter is,a majority of the Dáil voted in by a majority of the voters are snubbing SF before they'd snub FG
It's a simple fact
As Snubee, SF have to look at why

SF need do no looking. It is plainly obvious to every democrat in the place. FF and FG are trying to cling on to control of the power share. They have gotten used to game over a 100 years. As have a lot of the electorate that get lied to again and again about 'coalition' among other things.

satguy

This is it,, FG have seen up close just how much of a shambles FF and GP are,, So its get in quick, and do something for the Boss.

The Government is considering buying a number of the country’s 19 main private hospitals.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/government-said-to-be-considering-purchase-and-nationalisation-of-some-private-hospitals-1000077.html

This is when, even in a government cabinet meeting,, FF and GP would be asked to leave the room.

We know they will only buy one private hospital,, and we all know which one. A leopard never changes its spots, and FF will be no match for the FG wide boys.

RandomViewer

Mortelaro wrote: »

Vowed is a strong word,have you a link to where it was used or are you relying on pre election guff similar to most parties manifesto guff that don't make it into programme's for government?


Fact of the matter is,FF leadership have the scope to ask their members if they want to change their relationship with FG
That's where the decision is made

2nd Fact of the matter is,a majority of the Dáil voted in by a majority of the voters are snubbing SF before they'd snub FG
It's a simple fact
As Snubee, SF have to look at why

Of the big 3, FG got the least , Lowry and the Veronavirus aren't officially FG

RandomViewer

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, they have to step in and do the job because none of the rest of them are willing or able to step up and take it on.

Mary-Lou's disappearing act when the sh!t hit the fan being the most obvious example.

Until this weekend Coveney had vanished, lots of politicians have been keeping a low profile or the media aren't reporting what they've said, starting to suspect the latter, no tinfoil in the house

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BarryMcColgan/status/1250168590243954688?s=09

What's your point?
That when the results rolled in,SF are the only party in the Dáil left that a majority are snubbing ? Shur I agree with you there
But as snubee, they need to look inwardly at why

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

What's your point?
That when the results rolled in,SF are the only party in the Dáil left that a majority are snubbing ? Shur I agree with you there
But as snubee, they need to look inwardly at why

No that's not my point at all.

christy c

satguy wrote: »

A homeless man run over by a JCB because he was in the way of some VF building €400K+ apartments.

This is pathetic, even by your own diabolical standards. There is nothing to suggest this was anything other than an accident, to say otherwise without a shred of evidence is a new level of stupidity.