FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

FrancieBrady

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I love the way its ALL the governments fault for ALL the people sleeping in the streets.

No question of choices they made, it's always the governments fault.

Thays the problem, everyone blames Leo on everything wrong in their lives.

No personal responsibility in this country anymore.

Didn't Johnathan currie sell two houses his family bought him and refuse accommodation?

But it's all the governments fault, noone is allowed dare question people's circumstances.

Margaret Cash.

Erica Fleming.

The list goes on.

Its a load of nonsense.

I never said any of that.

Why can't you interpret properly.

That incident became a metaphor for a government that didn't care about housing or the homeless.

Simple point.

satguy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never said any of that.

Why can't you interpret properly.

That incident became a metaphor for a government that didn't care about housing or the homeless.

Simple point.

Francie is bang on,, what happened in this case, was indeed a metaphor for everthing FG stand for, and their tacit acknowledgement of a major crisis regarding our homeless. And indeed their wholesale inaction and uncaring attitude.

FG,, a party made up of mostly,, Lawyers, Ex Stockbrokers, and Ex Bankers,, will never really care about the man in the street.

But they will pay 4 time going rate for a private hospital,, how strange it that.

christy c

satguy wrote: »

Francie is bang on,, what happened in this case, was indeed a metaphor for everthing FG stand for, and their tacit acknowledgement of a major crisis regarding our homeless. And indeed their wholesale inaction and uncaring attitude.

FG,, a party made up of mostly,, Lawyers, Ex Stockbrokers, and Ex Bankers,, will never really care about the man in the street.

But they will pay 4 time going rate for a private hospital,, how strange it that.

You said yesterday that "A homeless man run over by a JCB because he was in the way of some VF building €400K+ apartments", now it's simply a metaphor. I think you need to stop digging.

Podge_irl

satguy wrote: »

But they will pay 4 time going rate for a private hospital,, how strange it that.

Any particular reason you are focusing so much on a made-up event that hasn't happened?

Podge_irl

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never said any of that.

Why can't you interpret properly.

That incident became a metaphor for a government that didn't care about housing or the homeless.

Simple point.

Yes, it was interpreted that way by people desperate to make that point. I am sure it could have impacted the election.

In reality, it is an utterly idiotic "metaphor" but unfortunately you can't control the narrative most of the time.

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never said any of that.

Why can't you interpret properly.

That incident became a metaphor for a government that didn't care about housing or the homeless.

Simple point.

A metaphor for the people who really think the government want homeless people to die and poor people too.

Despite this government overseeing one of the most generous welfare systems in the world for the "disadvantaged"

Its all left wing conspiracy nonsense.

FrancieBrady

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

A metaphor for the people whi really think the government want homeless people to die and poor people too.

Despite this government overseeing one of the most generous welfare systems in the world for the "disadvantaged"

Its all left wing conspiracy nonsense.

'Wanting people to die' and 'Not caring if people die' are two different motivations.
I clearly said it was a metaphor for a government that 'didn't care'.

FrancieBrady

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yes, it was interpreted that way by people desperate to make that point. I am sure it could have impacted the election.

In reality, it is an utterly idiotic "metaphor" but unfortunately you can't control the narrative most of the time.

Nobody has removed your right to think what you want of it. The point was events and images impacted the election.

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Wanting people to die' and 'Not caring if people die' are to different motivations.
I clearly said it was a metaphor for a government that 'didn't care'.

And its a load of nonsense.

Can you show me any links or credible evidence that the government don't care if peoole die?

Apart from what's in your head.

FrancieBrady

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

And its a load of nonsense.

Can you show me any links or credible evidence that the government don't care if peoole die?

Apart from what's in your head.

It wasn't just in 'my' head Jingle. That was FG's problem.

Podge_irl

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody has removed your right to think what you want of it. The point was events and images impacted the election.

I'm sure it did. But lots of completely ridiculous things impact elections and many of them are completely out of the hands of the actual parties running. It may have been considered as a metaphor by some, but it has no logical meaning as one. So I'm not sure what the point of bringing it up is.

satguy

It's funny that the FG fan boys posting in this thread, picked on my mention of a poor homeless guy.

But never noticed my mention of how much we are paying some of the FG inner circle for use of their private hospitals.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cost-of-deal-with-private-hospitals-1.4231764

Jinglejangle69

satguy wrote: »

It's funny that the FG fan boys posting in this thread, picked on my mention of a poor homeless guy.

But never noticed my mention of how much we are paying some of the FG inner circle for use of their private hospitals.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cost-of-deal-with-private-hospitals-1.4231764

Because its more tinfoil hat nonsense.

Always some big conspiracy no matter what the government do.

FrancieBrady

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm sure it did. But lots of completely ridiculous things impact elections and many of them are completely out of the hands of the actual parties running. It may have been considered as a metaphor by some, but it has no logical meaning as one. So I'm not sure what the point of bringing it up is.

You think the notion of an 'uncaring FG' party had no logical meaning for the electorate?

I don't think that is remotely the case, it was one of the big factors in the electorate turning away from them. Those repeated metaphors of modern life in Ireland fed into that belief massively. So much so, they hid the two ministers seen as mainly responsible, for the duration of the campaign. Harris and Murphy.

Suckit

satguy wrote: »

It's funny that the FG fan boys posting in this thread, picked on my mention of a poor homeless guy.

But never noticed my mention of how much we are paying some of the FG inner circle for use of their private hospitals.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cost-of-deal-with-private-hospitals-1.4231764

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Because its more tinfoil hat nonsense.

Always some big conspiracy no matter what the government do.

It's good to hear you citing tinfoil hat nonsense, as we are already aware of what happens when the same excuse is overly used.
At least two of the FG dons feature on the list of owners of private hospitals.
They also feature on a tax exile list that were rewarded rule that was relaxed, so that they could stay here for longer and take advantage of Ireland over their chosen tax haven(s).
This article was published almost a month ago
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/calls-to-revisit-private-hospital-deal-as-beds-lying-empty-despite-115m-per-month-cost-to-taxpayer-996616.html

Senior doctors are calling on the Government to revisit a taxpayer-funded €115m-a-month deal with private hospitals as three-quarters of their beds lie empty.

An audit of inpatient occupancy levels by the Independent Medical and Dental Consultants of Ireland (IMDCI) yesterday showed an occupancy rate of around 25%. A similar audit on April 14 showed a 16% occupancy rate, when 339 out of 2,058 inpatient beds were occupied.

A senior IMDCI figure said that, at full occupancy, the cost per bed per night under the deal is €1,862 in a private hospital (calculated over 30-day period), and €7,450 a night at a 25% occupancy rate.

Could have saved a lot of money already, and now with there being even less reason for them to continue getting their payments, will it be revised now?
That money may very well be needed for the expected 2nd wave. Surely it would be a good idea to claw money back from everywhere that is possible instead of throwing it away and preventing it from being collected from the same bunch?

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You think the notion of an 'uncaring FG' party had no logical meaning for the electorate?

I don't think that is remotely the case, it was one of the big factors in the electorate turning away from them. Those repeated metaphors of modern life in Ireland fed into that belief massively. So much so, they hid the two ministers seen as mainly responsible, for the duration of the campaign. Harris and Murphy.

Uhmmmm ....one of the most constant solid fact in senior management is the old adage’ An unpopular manager must be doing something right’

Of course the corollary is also is also true.

Lot of folk can’t seem to understand that to recover from an economic crash, one has to first build up the economy,which was done .

A certain coterie like to ignore that preferring to adopt the “What do we want-when do we want it-now!!!” mantra.

Kind of like the lad whose house and contents are damaged in a bad fire, picks up the phone and books a three week golf holiday in Thailand
and carries on as if nothing happened.

Doesn’t take too much imagination to guess which political bloc would adopt the latter tack, if they had the cahunas to grasp the nettle, but of course they won’t as they are scared shïttless they will have to upset anyone.

To make an omelette one has to break eggs.

Ballso

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Because its more tinfoil hat nonsense.

Always some big conspiracy no matter what the government do.

Same populist bull**** is being pushed the world over, SF are just our version of it. You'd swear we lived in a failed central African state instead of #3 on the human development index the way they go on. It's all lies and exaggeration fed to dimwit followers like Francie

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

To make an omelette one has to break eggs.

And the electorate gave their verdict on the 'eggs' FG chose to break. It wasn't a scrambled message, it was very clear, even if it fried your brain.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the electorate gave their verdict on the 'eggs' FG chose to break. It wasn't a scrambled message, it was very clear, even if it fried your brain.

Oooh..... Francie....I know you are under pressure trying to sit on a few fences, but the electorate did give a verdict, but it was by no means what the left are trumpeting.

Let’s not get carried away, SF and their fellow travelers couldn’t form a govt in a million years.

That’s some ‘message’ a chara.

satguy

When Michael Lowry graciously took a Red Card for the team, after the Moriarty Tribunal, the boss got off scott free. I remember it well, I was a FG voter back then. (not now).

Lowey is an IND now, still very much gene pool FG, through and through in fact. Maybe that's why FG have only ever run the odd patsy up against him down in Tipp. I woudln't be surprised if they still let him sit in at the odd cabinet meeting, when nobody is looking.

Podge_irl

Suckit wrote: »

It's good to hear you citing tinfoil hat nonsense, as we are already aware of what happens when the same excuse is overly used.
At least two of the FG dons feature on the list of owners of private hospitals.
They also feature on a tax exile list that were rewarded rule that was relaxed, so that they could stay here for longer and take advantage of Ireland over their chosen tax haven(s).
This article was published almost a month ago
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/calls-to-revisit-private-hospital-deal-as-beds-lying-empty-despite-115m-per-month-cost-to-taxpayer-996616.html

Could have saved a lot of money already, and now with there being even less reason for them to continue getting their payments, will it be revised now?
That money may very well be needed for the expected 2nd wave. Surely it would be a good idea to claw money back from everywhere that is possible instead of throwing it away and preventing it from being collected from the same bunch?

Would you have preferred if they hadn't taken over the private hospitals in case they were needed? I suspect people would not have quietly accepted that either. They have taken them over at cost so the owners are not benefiting. They are, in essence, insurance policies and insurance policies cost money. Unsurprisingly, private consultants also want to return to performing private operations so they can make money again.

There is literally nothing untoward happening in any of this. What exactly do you think is underhanded about the deal?

Podge_irl

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You think the notion of an 'uncaring FG' party had no logical meaning for the electorate?

I don't think that is remotely the case, it was one of the big factors in the electorate turning away from them. Those repeated metaphors of modern life in Ireland fed into that belief massively. So much so, they hid the two ministers seen as mainly responsible, for the duration of the campaign. Harris and Murphy.

I think connecting it to this sad event has no logic. But these stories take on a life of their own.

As to whether or not FG are "uncaring" - its obviously a personal judgement. I don't believe the individual members or ministers are uncaring, I think they just have different views on how best to tackle the problem. There is absolutely nothing as odious going on in Ireland as with, for example, the Hostile Environment policy in the UK which has little but vindictiveness as a guiding principle.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Oooh..... Francie....I know you are under pressure trying to sit on a few fences, but the electorate did give a verdict, but it was by no means what the left are trumpeting.

Let’s not get carried away, SF and their fellow travelers couldn’t form a govt in a million years.

That’s some ‘message’ a chara.

No 'pressure' here Brendan.

Loving how you have to deflect to SF to cover the blushes of what happened to FG.

RandomViewer

almostover wrote: »

Sweeping generalisation there. I've voted FG since I was old enough to vote. I'm from a working class background. I prefer to see a pro business party who are more fiscally conservative running the country try. And don't give me any of their Irish Tory party nonsense. FG are broadly centrist. They've introduced welfare hikes over the last 9 years and have offered a very generous pandemic unemployment scheme.

Personal reasons, FG TD lobbied for a visa for someone who crashed into a relative of mine who died from the injuries. Corruption is their stock and trade

Tokyo

Edgware wrote: »

Cant got too much until he has the Junior Cert passed

Mod: Take 24 hours off for the smartarsery.

James Brown

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think connecting it to this sad event has no logic. But these stories take on a life of their own.

As to whether or not FG are "uncaring" - its obviously a personal judgement. I don't believe the individual members or ministers are uncaring, I think they just have different views on how best to tackle the problem. There is absolutely nothing as odious going on in Ireland as with, for example, the Hostile Environment policy in the UK which has little but vindictiveness as a guiding principle.

I think we can find numerous examples though. Varadkar on 'It's worse elsewhere' regarding the homeless situation, Mr. Ralph and his seemingly being okay with the elderly being left to die off and the political use of killings and the victims families to try score points in schoolyard level back and forths to dodge criticism of policy.
As a whole, overseeing year on year worsening societal crises would give that uncaring impression. Then we've the hypocrisy of the 'stability' years which look like repeating...should they decide it's more beneficial than risking another election. They are certainly not in it for the people and we are not 'all in this together' either.

Jinglejangle69

Bowie wrote: »

I think we can find numerous examples though. Varadkar on 'It's worse elsewhere' regarding the homeless situation, Mr. Ralph and his seemingly being okay with the elderly being left to die off and the political use of killings and the victims families to try score points in schoolyard level back and forths to dodge criticism of policy.
As a whole, overseeing year on year worsening societal crises would give that uncaring impression. Then we've the hypocrisy of the 'stability' years which look like repeating...should they decide it's more beneficial than risking another election. They are certainly not in it for the people and we are not 'all in this together' either.

Yeah because SF and their supporters never use the deaths of the homeless or cervical check foer political points!

Remember Louise O Reilly tweeted about an ambulance not arriving and someone dying, then quickly deleted it ten mins later realising it was all lies and she was been called out for trying to score cheap political digs.

Give me a break with the hypocrisy.

James Brown

Podge_irl wrote: »

Any particular reason you are focusing so much on a made-up event that hasn't happened?

This is what I've seen:

The Taoiseach confirmed to me two weeks ago an estimated cost of €115 million per month for the leasing of the private hospitals.

“I then later asked the Minister for Finance why we are paying more than four times as much per bed as they are in the UK, which he was not able to answer.

“I then wrote to the Minister for Finance, copying to the Minister for Health, seeking the publication of the final agreements with the individual hospitals, a detailed breakdown of the €90.2 million which has been already given to the private hospitals and asking him again to explain the discrepancy between the €44,000 paid per bed in Ireland and the €10,000 paid per bed in Britain.https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/05/01/why-are-we-paying-more-than-four-times-as-much-per-private-bed-as-they-are-in-the-uk/

James Brown

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Yeah because SF and their supporters never use the deaths of the homeless or cervical check foer political points!

Remember Louise O Reilly tweeted about an ambulance not arriving and someone dying, then quickly deleted it ten mins later realising it was all lies and she was been called out for trying to score cheap political digs.

Give me a break with the hypocrisy.

Exhibit A.
Because dem others.....
Doesn't show my comments as unjustified. These things don't cancel each other out.
To be 'hypocrisy' I'd need be making a denial of any equivalence as regards another party(s).

Mortelaro

Bowie wrote: »

This is what I've seen:

Basket case private hospitals in the UK looked on the NHS deal as a bail out
Private hospitals in Ireland are profitable with nearly half the country having private health insurance versus the UK's 10 %

No point comparing the cost of hiring the two