FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

Loafing Oaf

fly_agaric wrote: »

Yes, I had been wondering if that could be analagous to what might happen to FF/FG. Don't know enough about German politics to say though.
Even if FF/FG don't swallow down the bitter pill and go into a coaliton government this time, an alliance is probably coming if their combined support contines to drop.

A related factor is whether SF emerges as the dominant party on a sustained basis. In that scenario FF won't be able to fudge the question of post-election matchups as it has tried to do this time. Even if they pick a new leader who is less hostile to SF than Martin, I don't think it's really a choice for them though. They will have to establish an ongoing 'partnership' of some sort with FG or find themselves squeezed out of the picture.

fly_agaric

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

A related factor is whether SF emerges as the dominant party on a sustained basis. In that scenario FF won't be able to fudge the question of post-election matchups as it has tried to do this time. Even if they pick a new leader who is less hostile to SF than Martin, I don't think it's really a choice for them though. They will have to establish an ongoing 'partnership' of some sort with FG or find themselves squeezed out of the picture.

FF took longer than FG to do it, but they do seem to have rejected SF now.
FF/FG could go into coalition and perform wonderfully I suppose (i.e. solve the problems that appear to have led to this election result, deprive SF or other left wing alternatives of oxygen).

I don't believe they are capable of it though.
FF in particular IMO have shifted right + become more rigid in their economic ideology from where they used to be pre Bertie/Cowan, and solutions for the problems (I think) are not to be found in the standard (edit centre right) toolbox of de-regulation, throwing tax breaks at it, "ppp" schemes etc.

all about the mane

fly_agaric wrote: »

FF took longer than FG to do it, but they do seem to have rejected SF now.
FF/FG could go into coalition and perform wonderfully I suppose (i.e. solve the problems that appear to have led to this election result, deprive SF or other left wing alternatives of oxygen).

I don't believe they are capable of it though.
FF in particular IMO have shifted right + become more rigid in their economic ideology from where they used to be pre Bertie/Cowan, and solutions for the problems (I think) are not to be found in the standard (edit centre right) toolbox of de-regulation, throwing tax breaks at it, "ppp" schemes etc.

There is no fixing the health system. No party are going to take that on.

fly_agaric

all about the mane wrote: »

There is no fixing the health system. No party are going to take that on.

It is possible...just very hard! :pac: More of an intractable problem than housing.
Much more people & vested interests (IMO) that will fight tooth and nail to keep the system we have now if any government ever really tries to change it.

is_that_so

fly_agaric wrote: »

It is possible...just very hard! :pac: More of an intractable problem than housing.
Much more people & vested interests (IMO) that will fight tooth and nail to keep the system we have now if any government ever really tries to change it.

It's actually the whole political system now via Slaintecare, which they all support, and what the HSE CEO does. Some fixes are quite obvious, the poor primary care infrastructure and the step-down/beds issue at the other end, others as you say very hard to quantify or fix. The picture, in theory, will improve over the next decade.

Yurt2

fly_agaric wrote: »

I don't believe they are capable of it though.
FF in particular IMO have shifted right + become more rigid in their economic ideology from where they used to be pre Bertie/Cowan, and solutions for the problems (I think) are not to be found in the standard (edit centre right) toolbox of de-regulation, throwing tax breaks at it, "ppp" schemes etc.

This is on the money. The legacy parties have a playbook they operate from, and if the answers can't be found in it or don't work they're at a loss what to do.

Some of the tantrums we see since the election, particularly FG, telling everyone there is nothing to be done about health or housing. Their entire message is 'we're as good as it gets and everyone else is stupid'.

Loafing Oaf

fly_agaric wrote: »

It is possible...just very hard! :pac: More of an intractable problem than housing.

IMO the thing for a new government to do with health would be to pick out a few narrow, measurable targets that could realistically be achieved within three or four years, make sure they are achieved, and get some neutral authority to verify that.

Making sweeping promises to sort everything out like FG did in 2011 will never be credible...

is_that_so

Health is now Slaintecare - an all-party initiative!

blanch152

Yurt! wrote: »

This is on the money. The legacy parties have a playbook they operate from, and if the answers can't be found in it or don't work they're at a loss what to do.

Some of the tantrums we see since the election, particularly FG, telling everyone there is nothing to be done about health or housing. Their entire message is 'we're as good as it gets and everyone else is stupid'.

The only tantrums I see are from one party threatening to hold rallies to undermine our democracy.

Yurt2

blanch152 wrote: »

The only tantrums I see are from one party threatening to hold rallies to undermine our democracy.

^^^Exhibit A. I'm not even sure what you're on about here - but I've already filed it away as nonsense.



Like I said, silly season from the supporters of the likes of FG.

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

The only tantrums I see are from one party threatening to hold rallies to undermine our democracy.

Public rallies undermining our democracy.jesus wept I've heard it all now.

FrancieBrady

smurgen wrote: »

Public rallies undermining our democracy.jesus wept I've heard it all now.

As if promising NOT to go into coalition with another party and then doing just that is 'democratic'.

The power swap parties will learn eventually that this is not the 'my father voted for you, so will I' electorate of the 40's and 50's. You have to keep your electorate informed and take them with you.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

The only tantrums I see are from one party threatening to hold rallies to undermine our democracy.

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1231551788823842816?s=19

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1231551788823842816?s=19

The rallies just seem petty to me, we've already engaged 2 weeks ago. I think we should leave it to the people we elected to make decisions on our behalf for now.

As regards FG going in to government, one half of me is thinking let SF & co at it, to expose some of their policies and hope they don't do much damage. The other half of me is thinking FG should go in to government, to try to stop some of the brain dead policies such as the pension age thing.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

The rallies just seem petty to me, we've already engaged 2 weeks ago. I think we should leave it to the people we elected to make decisions on our behalf for now.

As regards FG going in to government, one half of me is thinking let SF & co at it, to expose some of their policies and hope they don't do much damage. The other half of me is thinking FG should go in to government, to try to stop some of the brain dead policies such as the pension age thing.

What's petty about providing a platform for members of the electorate, many/some of whom may have voted for you, to openly engage/discuss/query things with senior members of the party?

We know other party's do it among themselves (the last big one I heard about in FG circles was the Halloween night one, where Maria Bailey was shafted)

Won't be going to any of them myself, but the reasoning behind it is sound.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

What's petty about providing a platform for members of the electorate, many/some of whom may have voted for you, to openly engage/discuss/query things with senior members of the party?

We know other party's do it among themselves (the last big one I heard about in FG circles was the Halloween night one, where Maria Bailey was shafted)

Won't be going to any of them myself, but the reasoning behind it is sound.

I say petty as I see it as SF trying to play the victim, i assume it'll be something along the lines of "big bad FFG not allowing us our turn". Maybe I'm wrong.

I know you're a bit obsessed with FG and Maria Bailey, etc. Any reason that doesn't extend to other parties? Such as that scrounger in Clare- Violet Ann? I'd guess that you'd have creamed yourself had a similar thing happened in FG.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

I say petty as I see it as SF trying to play the victim, i assume it'll be something along the lines of "big bad FFG not allowing us our turn". Maybe I'm wrong.

As far as I can tell - they're completely open, and free for anyone to attend, no need to assume, go along and find out. Basically put up or shut up.

I know you're a bit obsessed with FG and Maria Bailey, etc. Any reason that doesn't extend to other parties? Such as that scrounger in Clare Violet Ann? I'd guess that you'd have creamed yourself had a similar thing happened in FG.

Had the shinners ran a high profile campaign of wanting to flush out cheats, you'd maybe be on to something, but as it stands I never even heard of the woman before the election, and have zero problems at all with calling for her to be taken off the ticket should another election be called.

Hopefully that addresses your concerns.

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

As far as I can tell - they're completely open, and free for anyone to attend, no need to assume, go along and find out. Basically put up or shut up.


Had the shinners ran on a platform of wanting to flush out cheats, you'd maybe be on to something, but as it stands I never even heard of the woman before the election, and have zero problems at all with calling for her to be taken off the ticket should another election be called.

Hopefully that addresses your concerns.

I'd rather beat my head off a wall than attend a meeting with idiots like Pearse Doherty rambling on.

Regarding that cheat in Clare, i don't quite follow. I assume SF want to flush out cheats also, therefore having one as a TD would still be worthy of similar commentary from yourself I would have thought.

smurgen

christy c wrote: »

I'd rather beat my head off a wall than attend a meeting with idiots like Pearse Doherty rambling on.

Regarding that cheat in Clare, i don't quite follow. I assume SF want to flush out cheats also, therefore having one as a TD would still be worthy of similar commentary from yourself I would have thought.

You don't have to go. But others will.dont get so worked up about something you've no interest in.

McMurphy

christy c wrote: »

I'd rather beat my head off a wall than attend a meeting with idiots like Pearse Doherty rambling on.

And that's the thing Christopher, you're not compelled to go, I won't be going to any myself either - but I'm not whinging on an internet messaging board about them or any other political party holding a meeting in a hotel or public hall, I mean seriously, god forbid a party should hold a question and answer session with the plebs who voted for them.

Regarding that cheat in Clare, i don't quite follow. I assume SF want to flush out cheats also, therefore having one as a TD would still be worthy of similar commentary from yourself I would have thought.

I dunno Christy I'm neither a member of Sinn Fein, either party wise and or as an activist, I've stated that they'd be wise to take her off the ticket if there's another election incoming.

Not a sham internal report that no one is allowed to see, and then be forced to take her off because of local member's concerns it'll cost votes.

Take her off the ticket if she's been on a scam. No ifs no buts, faffing around over the issue as happened with Bailey is bad PR, nip it in the bud straight away says McMurph!

christy c

McMurphy wrote: »

And that's the thing Christopher, you're not compelled to go, I won't be going to any myself either - but I'm not whinging on an internet messaging board about them or any other political party holding a meeting in a hotel or public hall, I mean seriously, god forbid a party should hold a question and answer session with the plebs who voted for them.


I dunno Christy I'm neither a member of Sinn Fein, either party wise and or as an activist, I've stated that they'd be wise to take her off the ticket if there's another election incoming.

Not a sham internal report that no one is allowed to see, and then be forced to take her off because of local member's concerns it'll cost votes.

Take her off the ticket if she's been on a scam. No ifs no buts, faffing around over the issue as happened with Bailey is bad PR, nip it in the bud straight away says McMurph!

I well aware I don't have to go to those meetings, did you or the previous poster get the impression I thought otherwise? As regards whinging, I gave my opinion on those meetings- that's all. You then started waffling about Maria Bailey.

As regards that waster in Clare, I don't really care what they do with her. I just suspect you would have a lot more to say about her had she been a FG TD.

Jinglejangle69

Are SF supporters still outraged FG won't form a after years of trying to get them out of government!

Couldn't make it up I swear!!

all about the mane

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Are SF supporters still outraged FG won't form a after years of trying to get them out of government!

Couldn't make it up I swear!!

SF supporters are always outraged. It’s what they do

It’s like RBB nearly sh1tting himself live on telly when it was suggested he might go into government! Hilarious!

McMurphy

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Are SF supporters still outraged FG won't form a after years of trying to get them out of government!

Couldn't make it up I swear!!

It appears you actually could, and just did.

I hear a lot of people insinuating this, but can you link me to an example of Sinn Fein, complaining that FG won't go back into govt?

Just because you keep repeating something over and over and over again, doesn't make it true.

all about the mane

McMurphy wrote: »

It appears you actually could, and just did.

I hear a lot of people insinuating this, but can you link me to an example of Sinn Fein, complaining that FG won't go back into govt?

Just because you keep repeating something over and over and over again, doesn't make it true.

Plenty examples on this thread. Just read back

McMurphy

all about the mane wrote: »

Plenty examples on this thread. Just read back

Link to them please?

We're actually just a few posts short of 600 posts on this thread alone, the onus is on a poster who makes a post and wants it taken seriously to provide some proof, that's how it works on these forums.

all about the mane

McMurphy wrote: »

Link to them please?

We're actually just a few posts short of 600 posts on this thread alone, the onus is on a poster who makes a post and wants it taken seriously to provide some proof, that's how it works on these forums.

Just read back

McMurphy

all about the mane wrote: »

Just read back

I'll just chalk it down to Jingle talking out of his hoop, and you swearing the hoop talking in so.

smurgen

Does anyone know if Eoghan Murphy is still in the country? College students protesting in light of the rent raises and he hasn't met reps.

Jinglejangle69

McMurphy wrote: »

I'll just chalk it down to Jingle talking out of his hoop, and you swearing the hoop talking in so.

Are you for real?

There is a thread named:

Are FG gonna sit by and do noting for 5 years!!

Started and lauded by SF supporters!!!