NCT discontinue lift inspections (now with places with working lifts)

zepman

beauf wrote: »

Yes couldn't get through. Gave up. Decided to move it back 2 weeks using reschedule on the website.
NCT will be expired by then, but I only had narrow window to get it sorted, and I don't have any confidence they'll get it sorted AND let me know in that window.

Oh. Mine's expiring on Monday. So, I will probably be in the same boat. But I'm gonna go and try my luck on Sunday anyway since the test centre is pretty close to where I am, unless I get a text from them cancelling it.

elperello

maestroamado wrote: »

I was not aware the NCT test was around in 1961...

It's only there since 2000.
The offence is covered by an Amendment of the 1961 Act.
https://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/Your-Vehicle-/What-is-the-NCT-/

FishOnABike

honda boi wrote: »

Got a car off a dealer that nct was up 31/10/19
He put it through the nct and got the fail on lift inspection.
What's the deal now, wait till they update there website or are you's booking retests in case the Garda stop you?

The NCTS site still inficates that where underbody inspections have been reintroduced the lifts will only be used for those drivers who are due to undergo a driving test shortly and taxi drivers.

Unless you fall into one of those two categories I'd say there's not much point in booking a retest until the lift situation is back to normal and all vehicles going through the test are going through the underbody inspection. For now I'd keep an eye on the news and the NCT website for an announcement of when to book a retest for underbody inspection.

For the moment I'd make sure to carry the test report in the car (assuming everything but the underbody inspection has passed).

Legally you still have to have a valid test certificate to use a vehicle in a public place.

There has been no clear announcement on the position of driving a vehicle that has passed the NCT apart from the currently unavailable underbody inspection. The report itself notes it as a fail major / test not carried out.

The lack of response from the government, and the minister for transport, sport and tourism to an issue which affects approx. 3000 additional drivers each day the issue goes on, is nothing short of a national disgrace.

The same situation in Northern Ireland was dealt with swiftly by extending a vehicle's current MOT certificate.

Our minister could, and should have introduced a statutory instrument to either temporarily extend current test certificates or issue temporary test certificates until the lift problem is resolved. Leaving drivers in a legally uncertain situation is unacceptable incompetence or indifference.

sligojoek

My neighbour just arrived home from the test. This was attached to the test sheet.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

AFAIK, and I'm open to correction here, but once the election is called and until after the results come out, the ministers are essentially 'sacked' and are barred from making / doing anything related to the position. We essentially have no minister for Transport until early next week.

Again, not 100% sure, but that was my understanding.

https://www.thejournal.ie/32nd-dail-dissolved-4965429-Jan2020/

Once the GE is called, the Dáil must be dissolved. Once it is dissolved, there is a max 30 days within which the GE must be held. I was incorrect in saying we had no Ministers, we still do but they are discouraged from doing anything but regular run-of-the-mill stuff.

There was a meeting of Govt on the 29th Jan, I think, where any regular essential items or routine stuff was looked at and then everyone went back to the campaign trail. There are also serious implications for anyone caught using Govt or ministerial facilities for their campaigns, so the vast, vast majority just steer clear of the office until re-elected and/or reappointed.

The Minister for Transport is, effectively, barred from getting involved until next week.

degsie

Is it possible for a member of the public to request a lift inspection report from NCTS? Seeing as they are subjecting your car to a mechanically aided lift, is this unreasonable?

maestroamado

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/32nd-dail-dissolved-4965429-Jan2020/

Once the GE is called, the Dáil must be dissolved. Once it is dissolved, there is a max 30 days within which the GE must be held. I was incorrect in saying we had no Ministers, we still do but they are discouraged from doing anything but regular run-of-the-mill stuff.

There was a meeting of Govt on the 29th Jan, I think, where any regular essential items or routine stuff was looked at and then everyone went back to the campaign trail. There are also serious implications for anyone caught using Govt or ministerial facilities for their campaigns, so the vast, vast majority just steer clear of the office until re-elected and/or reappointed.

The Minister for Transport is, effectively, barred from getting involved until next week.

So they can have a special meeting to give €30milion to FAI??
Is it not more important to address something that effects almost every citizen in the country?

FishOnABike

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/32nd-dail-dissolved-4965429-Jan2020/

Once the GE is called, the Dáil must be dissolved. Once it is dissolved, there is a max 30 days within which the GE must be held. I was incorrect in saying we had no Ministers, we still do but they are discouraged from doing anything but regular run-of-the-mill stuff.

There was a meeting of Govt on the 29th Jan, I think, where any regular essential items or routine stuff was looked at and then everyone went back to the campaign trail. There are also serious implications for anyone caught using Govt or ministerial facilities for their campaigns, so the vast, vast majority just steer clear of the office until re-elected and/or reappointed.

The Minister for Transport is, effectively, barred from getting involved until next week.

If the government could decide to allocate €500,000 to the world health organisation towards combatting cironavirus in the last few days the government, or just the minister himself, through a statutory instrument could equally have made provision for extending or issuing temporary NCT certificates. The only thing preventing having put a solution to the NCT issue in place is indifference or incompetence.

maestroamado

elperello wrote: »

It's only there since 2000.
The offence is covered by an Amendment of the 1961 Act.
https://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/Your-Vehicle-/What-is-the-NCT-/

I do not think the link is legislation? it seems to me the requirement of RSA.
A government amendment be different in my opinion.

FishOnABike

maestroamado wrote: »

I do not think the link is legislation? it seems to me the requirement of RSA.
A government amendment be different in my opinion.

It's in sections 18 and 19 of the road traffic act
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/18/enacted/en/html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/19/enacted/en/html

Sections 18(9) and 18(10), especially 18(10)(b) allowing the minister make regulations exempting from subsection (1) of this section the use of vehicles for specified purposes or in specified circumstances; is particularly relevant to the current circumstances.

That the minister has thus far failed to make any regulations to address an ongoing matter that affects an additional approx. 3000 drivers every day is totally unacceptable.

NI could extend MOT certs validity almost as soon as the problem arose but we seem to be expected to just cross our fingers and hope for the best.

maestroamado

FishOnABike wrote: »

It's in sections 18 and 19 of the road traffic act
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/18/enacted/en/html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/19/enacted/en/html

Sections 18(9) and 18(10), especially 18(10)(b) allowing the minister make regulations exempting from subsection (1) of this section the use of vehicles for specified purposes or in specified circumstances; is particularly relevant to the current circumstances.

That the minister has thus far failed to make any regulations to address an ongoing matter that affects an additional approx. 3000 drivers every day is totally unacceptable.

NI could extend MOT certs validity almost as soon as the problem arose but we seem to be expected to just cross our fingers and hope for the best.

Thanks for that, i think it explains why the person was given 10 days to produce cert.
It appears the legislation was not updated to reflect NCT. penalty points etc.
It seems no penalty points can be given out on this while this fiasco continues.

FishOnABike

maestroamado wrote: »

Thanks for that, i think it explains why the person was given 10 days to produce cert.
It appears the legislation was not updated to reflect NCT. penalty points etc.
It seems no penalty points can be given out on this while this fiasco continues.

Penalty points are covered under the Road Traffic Act, 2002
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2002/act/12/enacted/en/index.html

The law is unchanged and there are no exceptions, using a vehicle without a test certificate is still a penalty point offence. There's nothing but hoping that the gardaí will be pragmatic and turn a blind eye to the law until the whole mess is cleared up.

NI could almost immediately put a fix in place by extending the validity of current MOT certificates. Our minister for transport, sport and tourism should have put a similar fix in place but has done nothing.

It's not good enough that it is left up to people to hope they will be allowed to get away with breaking the law if they use a vehicle which they cannot currently get fully tested or get a test certificate for.

This affects an additional approx. 3000 people each day the current situation goes on. It's well past time our minister did the job he's well paid to do.

macplaxton

FishOnABike wrote: »

NI could almost immediately put a fix in place by extending the validity of current MOT certificates. Our minister for transport, sport and tourism should have put a similar fix in place but has done nothing.

Would the Minister be legally able to?

The reason I ask is that in NI testing is annual and it was their view after taking legal advice that a 4 month extension (TEC) still fits in with the testing directive for those vehicles with a MOT in place. It's also why NI still had the problem of giving vehicles their first test at four years.

https://youtu.be/54vDuERxY4U?t=4355

They also weren't so sure there was the wriggle room extending validity beyond 2 years on existing tests.

Is the lift back working in Waterford?

I know there was an announcement saying is was but announcements haven't been entirely accurate so far...

wonski

The update was "in the coming week".

With taxis and driving test prioritised, trade prioritised, too apparently, but later removed from the update. I don't know why they put the trade in this update in the first place tbh.

I do understand why they removed it, though

I don't know if they know what they are doing, but we are still within the initial 3 weeks target as mentioned at the start of this fiasco by their director.

Whoever is running their updates failed miserably with trade cars and retests inclusions earlier.

maestroamado

FishOnABike wrote: »

Penalty points are covered under the Road Traffic Act, 2002
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2002/act/12/enacted/en/index.html

The law is unchanged and there are no exceptions, using a vehicle without a test certificate is still a penalty point offence. There's nothing but hoping that the gardaí will be pragmatic and turn a blind eye to the law until the whole mess is cleared up.

NI could almost immediately put a fix in place by extending the validity of current MOT certificates. Our minister for transport, sport and tourism should have put a similar fix in place but has done nothing.

It's not good enough that it is left up to people to hope they will be allowed to get away with breaking the law if they use a vehicle which they cannot currently get fully tested or get a test certificate for.

This affects an additional approx. 3000 people each day the current situation goes on. It's well past time our minister did the job he's well paid to do.

Thanks for the link.
I find it all confusing but interesting.
It seems to me that they are making it up as they go along.
The offence is "driving a vehicle without a valid NCT certificate"
We bring our car for test and it fails.
However for the purpose of this excercise the Gardai can regard it as a valid "pass"
We will have 166 new ones tomorrow "lanagans ball"
I have 10 days left.

FishOnABike

macplaxton wrote: »

Would the Minister be legally able to?

The reason I ask is that in NI testing is annual and it was their view after taking legal advice that a 4 month extension (TEC) still fits in with the testing directive for those vehicles with a MOT in place. It's also why NI still had the problem of giving vehicles their first test at four years.

https://youtu.be/54vDuERxY4U?t=4355

They also weren't so sure there was the wriggle room extending validity beyond 2 years on existing tests.

There are a number of things the minister could do within the relevant EU directive (Directive 2014/45/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 3 April 2014 on periodic roadworthiness tests for motor vehicles and their trailers https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02014L0045-20140429).

The directive only requires cars to be tested every second year so it would seem that any cars currently subjected to annual inspection could have their test certificate extended by up to twelve months. Changing to a two year test interval is one of the options discussed by the NI infrastructure committee in the linked video.

For vehicles failing with a major defect (like no underbody inspection being performed), the directive also allows the minister decide on the period during which the vehicle in question may be used before it is required to undergo another roadworthiness test up to a limit of two months before it must be retested. Doing this would at least allow vehicles to be on the road legally for the next two months without drivers having to rely on gardaí ignoring the law to avoid penalties.

In theory, if it takes longer than two months to fully resolve the test problem, a vehicle could be scheduled for retest every two months, issued with a test report with a major fail for non performance of the visual inspection and allowed on the road for another two months etc. until the test problem is resolved.

The directive also allows a member state to lay down the rules on penalties applicable and that those penalties shall be effective, proportionate, dissuasive and non-discriminatory. This could allow the minister remove the offence of using a vehicle without a test certificate where the vehicle has been submitted for testing and has passed all tests other than the underbody inspection tests which could not be performed.

Even within the limitations of the EU directive there appears to be actions the minister could take to partially address the problem.

The NI Infrastructure Committee has taken action and appears to be considering the longer term actions needed to deal with the issue.

Our government and the minister appear to be asleep at the wheel. There isn't so much as an announcement on the matter either on the main gov.ie website, the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport website not even a press release.

Before the test issue is fully resolved we could have hundreds of thousands of vehicles on the road without a valid test certificate.

Doing nothing about this should not be an option. Sitting back and leaving it to the incoming government (who will largely be the same faces in some different combination) to sort out the mess only shows that none of them are fit to govern.

maestroamado

If there is a serious incident involving a car that has not being examined underneath who will be responsible?
I would think there may be a bit of dodging, would it be NCT/Government/Insurers as unlikely car owner.
I think if this goes on much longer there may be consequences.
The Government would have being better to extend NCT for few weeks but there is big revenue collected on this.
I just called and basically got waffle to call next week.

maestroamado

maestroamado wrote: »

So they can have a special meeting to give €30milion to FAI??
Is it not more important to address something that effects almost every citizen in the country?

FishOnABike wrote: »

If the government could decide to allocate €500,000 to the world health organisation towards combatting cironavirus in the last few days the government, or just the minister himself, through a statutory instrument could equally have made provision for extending or issuing temporary NCT certificates. The only thing preventing having put a solution to the NCT issue in place is indifference or incompetence.

I'm not excusing the silence on the issue, just explaining this may be the reason for it. I don't know enough about either the FAI bailout or the WHO funding to comment, but it will be interesting to see if the (new) minister for Transport makes a statement next week.

odyssey06

maestroamado wrote: »

If there is a serious incident involving a car that has not being examined underneath who will be responsible?
I would think there may be a bit of dodging, would it be NCT/Government/Insurers as unlikely car owner.
I think if this goes on much longer there may be consequences.
The Government would have being better to extend NCT for few weeks but there is big revenue collected on this.
I just called and basically got waffle to call next week.

I'd assume ultimate responsibility still rests with the car owner, as it does the day before an NCT or the day after the NCT or driving to the NCT.
If you've passed NCT but a month later crash due to worn tyres, the insurance company will take that into account in their damages assessment.

maestroamado

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'd assume ultimate responsibility still rests with the car owner, as it does the day before an NCT or the day after the NCT or driving to the NCT.
If you've passed NCT but a month later crash due to worn tyres, the insurance company will take that into account in their damages assessment.

I'd assume that it is the responsibility of the test center to ensure each car tested is roadworthy when it leaves the centre. I am aware there is advice in relation tyres which i assume be held against the said owner if there is an incident.
How can a young person who gets their car prepared for a test, brings the same car for test and it passes, if there is a problem it is surely the responsibility of the RSA to make aware so it can be addressed.
This is why the re-test is in place.
I have never heard of a car being involved in a serious incident between test and re-test.

maestroamado

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not excusing the silence on the issue, just explaining this may be the reason for it. I don't know enough about either the FAI bailout or the WHO funding to comment, but it will be interesting to see if the (new) minister for Transport makes a statement next week.

There will certainly be no mention of FAI, this was a "stroke" as all Government ministers +John Treacy and revenue have known what was happening when they were given 50million over the last 10 years, its a wonder Delaney did not go for Dail.
WHO i expect we need to make a contribution to this anyway its buttons considering we have loads of money.

odyssey06

maestroamado wrote: »

I'd assume that it is the responsibility of the test center to ensure each car tested is roadworthy when it leaves the centre. I am aware there is advice in relation tyres which i assume be held against the said owner if there is an incident.
How can a young person who gets their car prepared for a test, brings the same car for test and it passes, if there is a problem it is surely the responsibility of the RSA to make aware so it can be addressed.
This is why the re-test is in place.
I have never heard of a car being involved in a serious incident between test and re-test.

This is the NCT process for a "failed dangerous statement".
https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/NCT/New%202018/Failed_Dangerous_Statement.pdf

But the test only certifies the condition of the car during the test, and faults that they can detect.
The moment you leave the test centre and and it's back to your responsibility.
You could hit a pot hole leaving the test centre and your car develops a fault.
How do you prove it was due to an inadequacy in the NCT and not something like that? And the onus would be on your to prove the NCT should have spotted it.

Not during test and retest, but there was a case of a fatal accident some years ago involving a car which passed the test some months before, and crashed due to rust I think. RTE did a followup programme, and this is well worth reading:
https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/nct-should-not-be-taken-as-gospel-says-leading-car-assessor-34649297.html

greasepalm

No surprise there with the nct as we have reported items to the customer that need repairs and it passes in the nct so car must be ok but only time will tell.

User1998

Has anyone with an NCT Trade Account been able to do a full test?

almostover

Girlfriend had her 04 Corrola in for NCT last night. No lift working. The handbrake cable snapped or became unmounted on one of the wheels during the test and now only have a handbrake on one wheel.

The handbrake cable was slack prior to the test and I adjusted it. Took it to a steep hill for a test run and the handbrake was so good that when applied on this step hill the two back wheels were locked as the car dragged down the hill slowly. They must be very severe on the handbrake during the test!!

Anyway all other tests passed with flying colours so will fix it up and get another year out of the car. Mighty little motor. But what galls me is that because it failed and the lifts couldn't be used we must pay €28 for re-inpsection including the checks on the lift and I'm presuming if any checks on the lift produce a fail it will be another €28 for a re-test again??? If they had any sense and wanted to keep the public onside, any fail in the portion of the test not performed on the lift should be repeated for free upon bring the car back for re-inpsection!!!

FishOnABike

almostover wrote: »

Girlfriend had her 04 Corrola in for NCT last night. No lift working. The handbrake cable snapped or became unmounted on one of the wheels during the test and now only have a handbrake on one wheel.

The handbrake cable was slack prior to the test and I adjusted it. Took it to a steep hill for a test run and the handbrake was so good that when applied on this step hill the two back wheels were locked as the car dragged down the hill slowly. They must be very severe on the handbrake during the test!!

Anyway all other tests passed with flying colours so will fix it up and get another year out of the car. Mighty little motor. But what galls me is that because it failed and the lifts couldn't be used we must pay €28 for re-inpsection including the checks on the lift and I'm presuming if any checks on the lift produce a fail it will be another €28 for a re-test again??? If they had any sense and wanted to keep the public onside, any fail in the portion of the test not performed on the lift should be repeated for free upon bring the car back for re-inpsection!!!

There needs to be some announcement on this. If a test and retest fee have already been paid then this should also cover a test and retest (if a retest is needed) for the part of the test that is carried out on the lifts.

L-M

There’s just absolutely no way that you’ll be made pay for a retest twice, if there is, there will be uproar from the public. I really wouldn’t worry about it. It’s not your fault they can’t complete the full test on one day.

fed_u

Test during the week.. Passed what they could inspect and was told my retest was free on account of the lift portion not being done - that was very nice of them

nanook5

Anyone know if the new lift is operational in Limerick. Have a retest tomorrow that requires it