Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

J Mysterio

Aegir wrote: »

They’re land locked countries Donald. But then geography has never been your strong point.

France appears to be the country that is digging its heals in over fishing, which according to many on here is a minor issue.

So let me ask you a direct question. Are you happy for the Irish agri sector to take the €1.5bn hit in the event of a no deal, as long as Macron is seen to be standing up for his (supposed) inconsequential fishing industry?

Quit blaming Macron, the French, whoever. The failure of Brexit is entirely at the UKs door. No one is interested in entertaining your ridiculous blame game. This disaster is years in the making and everyone could see where this was headed.

In any event, the UK recently added new demands around fishing - pelagic fish (who knew what the hell they were) not to be included. Ownership issues, crew issues etc. etc. The UK have, at every turn, made this an impossible negotiation. One would think they wanted to crash out with no deal.

J Mysterio

J Mysterio wrote: »

Quit blaming Macron, the French, whoever. The failure of Brexit is entirely at the UKs door. No one is interested in entertaining your ridiculous blame game. This disaster is years in the making and everyone could see where this was headed.

In any event, the UK recently added new demands around fishing - pelagic fish (who knew what the hell they were) not to be included. Ownership issues, crew issues etc. etc. The UK have, at every turn, made this an impossible negotiation. One would think they wanted to crash out with no deal.

I thought you said quit the blame game?

Nitrogan

J Mysterio wrote: »

What has this got to do with Carol

Carol Baskin? :eek:

Donald Trump

Aegir wrote: »

They’re land locked countries Donald. But then geography has never been your strong point.

France appears to be the country that is digging its heals in over fishing, which according to many on here is a minor issue.

So let me ask you a direct question. Are you happy for the Irish agri sector to take the €1.5bn hit in the event of a no deal, as long as Macron is seen to be standing up for his (supposed) inconsequential fishing industry?

Macron is only standing up for his people. As he is entitled to do. He didn't choose for the UK to attempt to take it's ball and go home. Neither did the Irish Agri sector but, as is always said, the UK decision to do so is their choice and is respected. It is regretted but respected.



Fishing is a minor issue. The French laid out their position a long way back. UK negotiators appear to have thought that they can just keep repeating their little mantras and now appear shocked the French meant what they said at the start.



The important thing is for the EU to stand as a group and to make decisions as a group and then to manage any disruption together afterwards as best they can. The UK can decide whether or not, come Jan 1st, they want to retain access to their largest trading partner or whether they would like to be a third country the same as the US or Russia or China is.



The Brexiteer misty googles of exceptionalism and hoping that the EU would descend into chaos and infighting is looking decidedly more misjudged each and every day. Now it is just like a three year old having a tantrum and threatening to bang its head off the wall under the absolute conviction that it will hurt its parents more if it does so.

J Mysterio

Aegir wrote: »

I thought you said quit the blame game?

Blaming others for the UKs abject failure.

Dyr

J Mysterio wrote: »

What has this got to do with Carol

Carol Codswallop is the one peddling that Brexit is a triumph for the National Front, presumably in cahoots with the Russians :rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1336077316448022535

J Mysterio

Bambi wrote: »

Carol Codswallop is the one peddling that Brexit is a triumph for the National Front, presumably in cahoots with the Russians :rolleyes:

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1336077316448022535

But it is a triumph for the National Front. Do you see the handy picture there with their manifesto?

Also, the Russians clearly influenced Brexit. Where is the Russia Report? There is innumerable links between Brexiteers and Russia e.g. Vote Leave, Aaron Banks and even Boris himself.

So... Carol is right, and fair play to her. If only the UK had more journalists like her.

Kermit.de.frog

We need a statue to Arlene Foster

Bonniedog

Donald Trump wrote: »

Macron is only standing up for his people. As he is entitled to do. .

The Brits are only doing what they were mandated to do. Leave.

So if they leave why should they continue to allow the French to decimate their fisheries?

Paddy doesn't give a fk because being rogered sideways by London or Brussels or the Bundesbank of Apple is in the "elites" DNA.

A lot of us are like the bullied child is so used to it, that when the biggest bully turns on someone else we back them up.

Pixie fkn heads is right.

Donald Trump

Bonniedog wrote: »

The Brits are only doing what they were mandated to do. Leave.

They don't seem to be too much in a hurry do they? See thread title.

Bonniedog wrote: »

So if they leave why should they continue to allow the French to decimate their fisheries?

Paddy doesn't give a fk because being rogered sideways by London or Brussels or the Bundesbank of Apple is in the "elites" DNA.

A lot of us are like the bullied child is so used to it, that when the biggest bully turns on someone else we back them up.

Pixie fkn heads is right.

It's your right to believe UK Brexiteer propaganda if you want. Some people never got over the doff-the-cap inferiority to their (ex-)colonial masters. Thankfully most of us did. You are free to believe in the superiority and exceptionalism of all people and things British if you so wish. You are fortunately in a small enough minority as to never to be able to realistically threaten common sense for the rest of us.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1336439348649144324

Chaos with Ed Miliband...

https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/595112367358406656

screamer

Ports chaos.. sure we have it here already its nothing to do with Brexit, just bad supply chain management. there's freighters moored waiting for a space somewhere in the republic to dock and unload, leading to a shortage of things.

J Mysterio

J Mysterio wrote: »

Quit blaming Macron, the French, whoever. The failure of Brexit is entirely at the UKs door. No one is interested in entertaining your ridiculous blame game. This disaster is years in the making and everyone could see where this was headed.

In any event, the UK recently added new demands around fishing - pelagic fish (who knew what the hell they were) not to be included. Ownership issues, crew issues etc. etc. The UK have, at every turn, made this an impossible negotiation. One would think they wanted to crash out with no deal.

It’s like a group game at the World Cup, where Ireland need England to win so they can progress to the next round, but some people are so wrapped up in their own hatred and bigotry, they would rather see Ireland go out than see England win.

It’s just sad.

Leroy42

Aegir wrote: »

It’s like a group game at the World Cup, where Ireland need England to win so they can progress to the next round, but some people are so wrapped up in their own hatred and bigotry, they would rather see Ireland go out than see England win.

It’s just sad.

Sorry, you think the mess of Brexit is down to people not liking the British?

You think the failure to ever agree on what Brexit actually is because people don't like the British.

You think the failure of now two PM's, and counting, is because the French don't like the British? Despite the Uk being able to happily trade and negotiate with the French, Germans, Irish etc for 40+ years.

And it was this hatred of the British that they came up with the devilish plan to 1st allow the British into the club, to be a senior member of the club, to lead many leading initiatives in the club, but then behind the scenes secretly working to hoodwink the British into voting themselves out and then when there was a clear path to a deal pulling it all away out of spite?

That is you honest point of view?

Since it is the British leaving the club, wouldn't it be more true to say that the British are anti-EU?

And it is nothing like that game. In that scenario, we both win. The only scenario akin to that is that if the UK remains, which Ireland worked hard to get. But the UK were too busy beating themselves because their thinking is by knocking themselves out of the competition then Ireland may simply walk out as well.

This is going to tough for Ireland, through no fault of our own, but there are genuine opportunities. Already we have seen CoL business in part shift to Dublin. We become the main English speaking nation, and the bridge between US and EU now rests solely with us. You seem to be suggesting that the real opportunity lies with letting the UK get all the advantages and us returning to a a dependency on the UK.

ExMachina1000

Irish fishing waters will be decimated by Dutch and French ships post Brexit. The UK shouldn't even allow them to sail through their waters.

The UK recently announced an expansion of its naval fleet to stop EU boats illegally fishing in UK waters.

Look at the map of who owns what water. Halfway down the page. UK owned water is absolutely enormous.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/common-fisheries-policy

J Mysterio

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1336439348649144324

They are still in the transition period...

J Mysterio

Aegir wrote: »

It’s like a group game at the World Cup, where Ireland need England to win so they can progress to the next round, but some people are so wrapped up in their own hatred and bigotry, they would rather see Ireland go out than see England win.

It’s just sad.

lol, it's not like that at all though. Awful analogy.

I have said before that Anglo-Irish relations were at an all time high prior to Brexit and went into detail on this point.

I - like many other Irish people - was quite emotional at the Queens visit and her speech in Dublin castle, her cupla focal.

We had Cameron apologise unreservedly for Bloody Sunday.

We had McGuiness and the Queen shake hands.

Then Brexit...

That idea in your head that I - or other Irish people - want the UK to fail just because of our shared history is simply wrong, and simple minded.

All the commentary of the last few years RE criticism of the UK has been - wait for it - due to the apalling behaviour of the UK, many of It's citizens, and it's disgraceful government. You can't see that, that's on you.

Irish people were looking to the future and a better relationship. The UK decided to shıt all over that, with nary a thought to the consequences for themselves, or others.

Do silly things and people will think you are indeed silly.

J Mysterio

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sorry, you think the mess of Brexit is down to people not liking the British?

You think the failure to ever agree on what Brexit actually is because people don't like the British.

You think the failure of now two PM's, and counting, is because the French don't like the British? Despite the Uk being able to happily trade and negotiate with the French, Germans, Irish etc for 40+ years.

And it was this hatred of the British that they came up with the devilish plan to 1st allow the British into the club, to be a senior member of the club, to lead many leading initiatives in the club, but then behind the scenes secretly working to hoodwink the British into voting themselves out and then when there was a clear path to a deal pulling it all away out of spite?

That is you honest point of view?

Since it is the British leaving the club, wouldn't it be more true to say that the British are anti-EU?

And it is nothing like that game. In that scenario, we both win. The only scenario akin to that is that if the UK remains, which Ireland worked hard to get. But the UK were too busy beating themselves because their thinking is by knocking themselves out of the competition then Ireland may simply walk out as well.

This is going to tough for Ireland, through no fault of our own, but there are genuine opportunities. Already we have seen CoL business in part shift to Dublin. We become the main English speaking nation, and the bridge between US and EU now rests solely with us. You seem to be suggesting that the real opportunity lies with letting the UK get all the advantages and us returning to a a dependency on the UK.

Indeed.

Irish person - criticises UK.

English person: 'waaa. You just don't like us because we ravaged your country before.'

Peregrinus

Bonniedog wrote: »

The Brits are only doing what they were mandated to do. Leave.

Keep up, Bonniedog! The Brits left 11 months ago. The mandate of the Brexit referendum has been fully discharged. What the UK has been grappling with (rather ineffectively) for the past year is what kind of relationshiop they want to have with the EU from outside - a matter on which the people were not consulted in the referendum.

Bonniedog wrote: »

So if they leave why should they continue to allow the French to decimate their fisheries?

The French having been decimating their fisheries. One of the success of the CFP is that is has stabilised and conserved North Sea fishing stocks.

This kind of fact-free, prejudice-driven approach to matters has bedevilled the whole Brexit project right from the get-go. When textbooks are written on how astonishingly badly the UK handled Brexit, this is going to feature largely in the explanations.

John Doe1

It will be a bit surreal when this all done.

I still have a sneaking suspicion there still be news reports of Boris negotiating with the EU in the background as i lay dying in my hospital bed in the late 2070's

joseywhales

The perfect solution, no one gets to fish anymore, anywhere, we will all be better off, at least one ecosystem can begin to recover.

Peregrinus

joseywhales wrote: »

The perfect solution, no one gets to fish anymore, anywhere, we will all be better off, at least one ecosystem can begin to recover.

Good username/post combo there.

First Up

Peregrinus wrote:

Keep up, Bonniedog! The Brits left 11 months ago. The mandate of the Brexit referendum has been fully discharged. What the UK has been grappling with (rather ineffectively) for the past year is what kind of relationshiop they want to have with the EU from outside - a matter on which the people were not consulted in the referendum.

And one which many Brexiteers still haven't grasped, judging by the bluster and flag waving of their spokesmen in the media these days.

It was always just a matter of time before the delusions about their negotiating strength were exposed by reality. They don't like but it's a bit late now to be copping on.

We'll see how good Boris is at facing facts.

ExMachina1000

First Up wrote: »

And one which many Brexiteers still haven't grasped, judging by the bluster and flag waving of their spokesmen in the media these days.

It was always just a matter of time before the delusions about their negotiating strength were exposed by reality. They don't like but it's a bit late now to be copping on.

We'll see how good Boris is at facing facts.

The second biggest economy has left the EU. European law no longer supersedes UK law.

Junkyard Tom

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The second biggest economy has left the EU.

5th largest exporter behind Germany (three times larger), Netherlands, France and Italy.

Peregrinus

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The second biggest economy has left the EU.

Or third, depending on how you count it. By some measures the UK has fallen behind France as well as Germany.

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

European law no longer supersedes UK law.

Well, it never did, except to the extent that UK law provided that it should.

And now it doesn't, except to the extent that UK law provides that it does.

What has changed is the extent to which UK law provides for EU law to have priority. But it's a change of degree rather than a more fundamental change.

ExMachina1000

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

5th largest exporter behind Germany (three times larger), Netherlands, France and Italy.

42% of international money markets pass through London.
The financial capital of the world.

The next largest is in the EU is Paris at 2%

VinLieger

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

42% of international money markets pass through London.
The financial capital of the world.

The next largest is in the EU is Paris at 2%

Do you have links that show these stats are recent ie since January this year or are they 2-3 years old?

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sorry, you think the mess of Brexit is down to people not liking the British?

No, it’s why any thread about Brexit (or British politics for that matter) just end up with the same few posters throwing around as hominem resulting in a cluster****/echo chamber.

Leroy42

Aegir wrote: »

No, it’s why any thread about Brexit (or British politics for that matter) just end up with the same few posters throwing around as hominem resulting in a cluster****/echo chamber.

So what was the point of your post about people hating Britain?

It seems from your above post that it has nothing to do with Brexit but you think that any negative post about Britain must be driven by hatred.

Which rather seems to avoid the reality that, whether certain people have a dislike for Britain or not, Brexit is a mess of epic proportions which has laid bare the arrogance and disrespect that the current generation of politicians and many members of the UK public hold the rest of the world.

It is you, by painting posters as anti-British rather than dealing with the core arguements that is dealing in ad-hominems.